REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Libertarianism is in vogue. Again.

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 09:42
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Sunday, June 9, 2013 3:32 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:


Looking for the hot new(ish) thing in American politics? Try libertarianism.

Yes, that long-dismissed political philosophy that eschews government intervention in favor of individual liberty is again coming into vogue, particularly among young voters.

Two issues highlight the growing libertarian strain in the country.

The first is legalizing marijuana. For the first time in more than four decades of polling on the subject, a Pew Research Center survey found in April that a majority of Americans (52 percent) favored legalizing it. Among millennials — those born after 1980 — the numbers were significantly higher, with 65 percent supporting legalization.

The second is same-sex marriage. In a March Washington Post-ABC News poll, 58 percent of all respondents said that gay marriage should be legal, including a whopping 81 percent of those ages 18 to 29.

Polls aside, an analysis of actual votes in the 2012 presidential election also suggests that libertarianism is on the rise. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Party’s 2012 presidential nominee and the former Republican governor of New Mexico, received nearly 1.3 million votes on Election Day — the first time the party’s nominee had ever taken more than a million votes. (Johnson won 0.99 percent of the overall votes cast, the all-time second highest for a Libertarian candidate, behind Ed Clark in 1980, who took 1.06 percent.)

More telling, however, was then-Rep. Ron Paul’s showing in the 2012 Republican presidential primary. Paul, who was the Libertarian Party’s 1988 presidential nominee and continued to espouse the party principles in 2008 and 2012 despite running as a Republican, was the fourth-highest vote-getter in last year’s primary process, winning more than 2 million votes in a campaign fueled by the active support of young voters. Perhaps as importantly, the Texas congressman raised $41 million for his campaign, the vast majority of that total coming from online donations.

Now, consider all of those data points in light of the still-breaking news of the widespread collection of phone records and Internet data by the National Security Agency, a series of programs that President Obama and his top advisers have described as a necessity to combat terrorism. Combine the growing libertarian strain in the country with the controversy over the government’s encroachment into all aspects of our lives and you begin to see the potency of the message heading into 2016.

All of which brings us to Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), son of Ron and the elected official who most clearly embodies the rising tide of libertarianism within the country and within his party.

Paul is responsible for the single most memorable moment in politics this year when he took to the Senate floor in March to filibuster John Brennan’s nomination as CIA director. Paul’s goal was to highlight the U.S. policy on drones and to raise questions about the possibility of the government targeting U.S. citizens on American soil.

Before it was all over, roughly 13 hours after it had begun, Paul had been joined on the Senate floor by a who’s who of Republican Party luminaries, including Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.), the party’s 2016 favorite for president; Sen. Mitch McConnell (Ky.), the Republican leader in the chamber; and Sen. John Cornyn (Tex.), the most recent head of the Senate GOP’s campaign arm. Libertarianism had won a victory on the floor of the U.S. Senate.

For his part, Paul has been careful to avoid being labeled as a flat-out libertarian — a categorization that badly hurt his father’s chances at actually being a contender in 2012, considering his strongly stated noninterventionist foreign-policy beliefs. Instead, Rand Paul has sought to create a sort of Republicanism with libertarian principles that fits more comfortably within the bounds of the GOP.

“The way we’re going to compete is by running people for office who can appreciate some issues that attract young people and independents: civil liberties, as well as a less aggressive foreign policy, not putting people in jail for marijuana, a much more tolerant type of point of view,” Paul told Spencer Ackerman during an interview for Wired magazine late last month. (Paul went on to predict that embracing such a view would make Republicans politically competitive in California, which seems a bit far-fetched, at least at the moment.)

Paul’s 2016 candidacy — and he will run for president in three years’ time — will test just how much libertarianism Republicans want in the Grand Old Party. But for a party badly in need of finding new voters open to their message, embracing libertarianism — at least in part — might not be a bad avenue for Republicans to explore.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/libertarianism-is-in-vogue--aga
in/2013/06/09/ab8ede42-d108-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html?hpid=z2

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Sunday, June 9, 2013 4:46 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Why the new thread when there is already one on libertariansim?

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Sunday, June 9, 2013 5:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I laugh at anyone stupid enough to believe Rand Paul has anything to do with libertarianism.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Sunday, June 9, 2013 5:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yo there old fool -

Wow, all that about libertarianism and you still can't define it - or even describe it.

ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU!

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Sunday, June 9, 2013 6:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Alex Jones calls himself a libertarian. That speaks volumes.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, June 10, 2013 3:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, June 10, 2013 5:17 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



http://leftycartoons.com/if-housepets-were-libertarians/

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, June 10, 2013 7:58 AM

STORYMARK


Funny how the article praises Paul's brave stand - but forgets the complete 180 he took on it after Boston.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, June 10, 2013 12:11 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Why the new thread when there is already one on libertariansim?



Not really related to that thread, other than mentioning libertarianism.

Maybe you should ask Niki why there's so many threads about the Right.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, June 10, 2013 12:16 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I've said before I wish she'd keep it to one thread.

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Monday, June 10, 2013 12:17 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yo there old fool -



Now where was that button?




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, June 10, 2013 5:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yo there old fool -



Now where was that button?






You had to quote someone to tell them you're ignoring them?


You're doing it wrong.


Here's your button:







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, June 10, 2013 6:13 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


BTW, by saying that it's "in vogue", isn't that basically admitting that it's a fad or a fashion accessory?

Ron Paul had a li'l bit of pull with some of the young stoners, but nobody with two brain cells is dumb enough to think that his son is anything like the father. He's purely a Republican Party animal, all the way. Of course, that suits most of the disillusioned GOP just fine, since very few (if any) of them are actually libertarians in the first place. They tend to be overwhelmingly right-wing bootlickers and neo-cons who are now trying desperately to distance themselves from the disaster that was the Bush presidency.

As Frem has pointed out numerous times, scrape off that Gadsden Flag decal on the car of today's "libertarian", and you'll find that it was covering up the Bush/Cheney '04 sticker, or the McCain/Palin '08 sticker, or the Romney/Paul '12 sticker.

How many people are running for Congress on the Libertarian Party platform? How many are running *AS* members of the Libertarian Party?

Seems if you're going to claim that something is so "in vogue", you should be able to point to some actual libertarians who are holding office. For instance, I can point to quite a few Democrats, progressives, and liberals who hold elected office; are you saying that progressivism is "in vogue" yet again?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Communism is a 'fad' or bad fashion idea.




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 2:07 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yo there old fool -



Now where was that button?






You had to quote someone to tell them you're ignoring them?


You're doing it wrong.



Nope.

Going back to the "When you start with a personal insult, I ignore you in this thread" policy.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 2:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yo there old fool -



Now where was that button?






You had to quote someone to tell them you're ignoring them?


You're doing it wrong.



Nope.

Going back to the "When you start with a personal insult, I ignore you in this thread" policy.




It's good to see that you agree with me that Rand Paul has nothing to do with libertarianism, then.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 2:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Ahem.



-F

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:53 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Why the new thread when there is already one on libertariansim?


He's perfectly capable of having his own libertarian thread. He does need to use someone else's or have one provided by the govt.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:54 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
BTW, by saying that it's "in vogue", isn't that basically admitting that it's a fad or a fashion accessory?


I'm looking forward to librarianism where all govt services are free but have to be returned at the end of two weeks.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:






Classic misrepresentation of Libertarian views. The issue of free will, and taking it upon themselves to climb up in the lifeguard stand and DO THE JOB is a sense of personal responsibility that apparently Kwickie just can't fathom.

The individual makes the choice, not the govt.

In Kwickie's ' Julia's world ' view of massive big govt, the swimmers would swim at their own risk, as the govt employed lifeguard could never be fired for doing a piss poor job.

Once again, Kwickie lives in upside down world.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:33 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
BTW, by saying that it's "in vogue", isn't that basically admitting that it's a fad or a fashion accessory?


I'm looking forward to librarianism where all govt services are free but have to be returned at the end of two weeks.



Hahaha. I like it.

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:35 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Communism is a 'fad' or bad fashion idea.





I love the Che tea shirts.


My preferred Che



Ahem

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Communism is a 'fad' or bad fashion idea.





I love the Che tea shirts.



Cause fashionable images of racist butchers on T's are SOOOO chic.





Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:26 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Depends which bit of propaganda you choose to believe.

Highly recommend Motocycle Diaries, btw. Very interesting film. Whatever flaws he developed as a military leader, he had great vision for South America.

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Depends which bit of propaganda you choose to believe.

Highly recommend Motocycle Diaries, btw. Very interesting film. Whatever flaws he developed as a military leader, he had great vision for South America.



No propaganda. He hated blacks, and thought white European women were the bomb.

Oh, and his twisted blood lust to view executions of Cubans from his office was so strong, he had a wall of his office knocked out and a window put in, so he could enjoy the show.


Never has so much hype and mythology been fabricated for a degenerate piece of go-se as Che.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:01 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Never has so much hype and mythology been fabricated for a degenerate piece of go-se...





Reagan and Thatcher come to mind.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Never has so much hype and mythology been fabricated for a degenerate piece of go-se...





Reagan and Thatcher come to mind.




Too easy. I knew you'd come back w/ such a lame, empty retort.

Those 2 actually did GOOD in the world.

And you'd dare to compare those 2 great individuals to a worthless piece of go-se and scum as Che ?

Beyond pathetic. Truly.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, let's see - Reagan exploded the federal deficit to record levels all on his very own, without a war or global economic downturn (or both) to help him out - and Thatcher created record levels of unemployment and poverty. I can see how you'd think that's a stellar record.



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh, and Geezer's ignoring me. WHOO HOOOOoooo...!

So I can say anything I want and he can't reply or even note impersonally b/c, well, he's ignoring me in this thread. I have to say, that's a significant tactical error.

So, reading the tripe that he posts is like reading Orwell's doublespeak. He can't QUITE post what he means. He's all for libertarianism - he just can't describe it, define it, or imagine how it would work. But he BELIEVES. (Or claims he does. And he's trying hard to sell it too.)

And then you watch how he operates on the board, a supposed model for libertarianism. When pressed to answer questions, explain his thoughts, provide data, links, cites or quotes, apply even a little bit of logic to his argument - something beyond his glory HALLELUJAH! 'it'll work out by and by if you just BELIEVE' old-timey religion - he tries to dance the argument away from his unsupportable opinion, cherry-picks data, snarks, and eventually abandons the thread - only to come back in another thread with the same crap. Now THAT'S taking personal responsibility for your position!

Oh yeah - and apparently his (ahem!) non-partisan stance just causes him to happen to agree with everything republicans do, but never with democrats. For example, this is his reaction to the US PATRIOT Act in 2007 under Bush, AFTER the router splitter was discovered and reported about in 2006:

http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=35207


"And you thought the Patriot Act was bad."

"Folk who moan about the Patriot Act being the worst thing ever in America really don't read their history."

"The Patriot Act, as repugnant as you consider it, is pretty weak compared to stuff implemented in the past by folks who are widely considered to be our greatest presidents."


The US PATRIOT Act used to be something that was hardly anything bad at all - under a republican. Under a democrat, it's a different story.

And yes, his past acceptance of the US PATRIOT Act as 'not too bad' is him standing up for freedom, and presumably, 'libertarianism', small government, non-violence and the lack of coercion he so fervently claims to believe.

Can you say 'HYPOCRITE'? Sure you can.



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU!

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Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Oh, and Geezer's ignoring me.






Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 29, 2022 9:42 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Libertarian kept ballot access...not sure what taht means they hold onto a loser position but have not lost more ground?

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