"Russia Plans To Enforce Anti-Gay Law For Athletes, Fans During Olympics" by Niki2

America loves a winner!

I found this funny.

What once use to be the Left wing utopia for how man should evolve, the former Soviet Union is now profoundly anti gay and runs its govt, quite well, on a flat tax.

My, how times have changed.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

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" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 1, 2013 12:51 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Brenda, I have some of the same FEELINGS about Putin, but I don't seriously hope anyone ever does. But I do understand. :o)

Wow, I guess I just got "educated"! When was Russia anyone's "utopia"? Can anyone give me historical perspective on that, I've lived 65 years and I never noticed that. Was it ever "utopia" to anyone here? And they run their government "quite well"? Where does...

Oh, wait, it's Rap. Silly me. What world DOES he live in??

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Thursday, August 1, 2013 1:03 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Wow, I guess I just got "educated"! When was Russia anyone's "utopia"? Can anyone give me historical perspective on that, I've lived 65 years and I never noticed that. Was it ever "utopia" to anyone here? And they run their government "quite well"? Where does...

Oh, wait, it's Rap. Silly me. What world DOES he live in??

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 1, 2013 1:08 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

There you go, that's Rap's "reality". Explains a lot.

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Thursday, August 1, 2013 1:17 PM

BYTEMITE

My mormon grandmother served her mission in Soviet Russia.

She's not a socialist or a communist.

I think soviet Russia was one of those horror-fests illustrating that once any form of government becomes authoritarian enough, whether left-wing, right-wing, fascist, communist, despotic, theocratic or so on, they all become TERRIBLE.

Modern Russia just goes to show what happens when there was a single completely corrupt ruling party and the government collapses. It basically becomes a kleptocracy run by gangsters. And then someone like Putin shows up and seems like things might get better but he turns into a dictator and tries to end term limits for his office and creates a personality cult among the youth and starts conflicts with powerhouse nations for ego.

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Thursday, August 1, 2013 2:13 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

There you go, that's Rap's "reality". Explains a lot.

TEXT OF KGB LETTER ON SENATOR TED KENNEDY

Special Importance
Committee on State Security of the USSR
14.05. 1983 No. 1029 Ch/OV
Moscow

Regarding Senator Kennedy’s request to the General Secretary of the Communist Party Comrade Y.V. Andropov

Comrade Y.V. Andropov

On 9-10 May of this year, Senator Edward Kennedy’s close friend and trusted confidant J. Tunney was in Moscow. The senator charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to the General Secretary of the Center Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Y. Andropov.

Senator Kennedy, like other rational people, is very troubled by the current state of Soviet-American relations. Events are developing such that this relationship coupled with the general state of global affairs will make the situation even more dangerous. The main reason for this is Reagan’s belligerence, and his firm commitment to deploy new American middle range nuclear weapons within Western Europe.

According to Kennedy, the current threat is due to the President’s refusal to engage any modification on his politics. He feels that his domestic standing has been strengthened because of the well publicized improvement of the economy: inflation has been greatly reduced, production levels are increasing as is overall business activity. For these reasons, interest rates will continue to decline. The White House has portrayed this in the media as the "success of Reaganomics."

Naturally, not everything in the province of economics has gone according to Reagan’s plan. A few well known economists and members of financial circles, particularly from the north-eastern states, foresee certain hidden tendencies that many bring about a new economic crisis in the USA. This could bring about the fall of the presidential campaign of 1984, which would benefit the Democratic party. Nevertheless, there are no secure assurances this will indeed develop.

The only real threats to Reagan are problems of war and peace and Soviet-American relations. These issues, according to the senator, will without a doubt become the most important of the election campaign. The movement advocating a freeze on nuclear arsenals of both countries continues to gain strength in the United States. The movement is also willing to accept preparations, particularly from Kennedy, for its continued growth. In political and influential circles of the country, including within Congress, the resistence to growing military expenditures is gaining strength.

However, according to Kennedy, the opposition to Reagan is still very weak. Reagan’s adversaries are divided and the presentations they make are not fully effective. Meanwhile, Reagan has the capabilities to effectively counter any propaganda. In order to neutralize criticism that the talks between the USA and the USSR are non-constructive, Reagan will grandiose, but subjectively propagandistic. At the same time, Soviet officials who speak about disarmament will be quoted out of context, silenced or groundlessly and whimsically discounted. Although arguments and statements by officials of the USSR do appear in the press, it is important to note the majority of Americans do not read serious newspapers or periodicals.

Kennedy believes that, given the current state of affairs, and in the interest of peace, it would be prudent and timely to undertake the following steps to counter the militaristic politics of Reagan and his campaign to psychologically burden the American people. In this regard, he offers the following proposals to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union Y.V. Andropov:

1. Kennedy asks Y.V. Andropov to consider inviting the senator to Moscow for a personal meeting in July of this year. The main purpose of the meeting, according to the senator, would be to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA. He would also like to inform you that he has planned a trip through Western Europe, where he anticipates meeting England’s Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and French President Mitterand in which he will exchange similar ideas regarding the same issues.

If his proposals would be accepted in principle, Kennedy would send his representative to Moscow to resolve questions regarding organizing such a visit.

Kennedy thinks the benefits of a meeting with Y.V.Andropov will be enhanced if he could also invite one of the well known Republican senators, for example, Mark Hatfield. Such a meeting will have a strong impact on American and political circles in the USA (In March of 1982, Hatfield and Kennedy proposed a project to freeze the nuclear arsenals of the USA and USSR and pblished a book on the theme as well.)

2. Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize in August-September of this year, televised interviews with Y.V. Andropov in the USA. A direct appeal by the General Secretary to the American people will, without a doubt, attact a great deal of attention and interest in the country. The senator is convinced this would receive the maximum resonance in so far as television is the most effective method of mass media and information.

If the proposal is recognized as worthy, then Kennedy and his friends will bring about suitable steps to have representatives of the largest television companies in the USA contact Y.V. Andropov for an invitation to Moscow for the interview. Specifically, the president of the board of directors of ABC, Elton Raul and television columnists Walter Cronkite or Barbara Walters could visit Moscow. The senator underlined the importance that this initiative should be seen as coming from the American side.

Furthermore, with the same purpose in mind, a series of televised interviews in the USA with lower level Soviet officials, particularly from the military would be organized. They would also have an opportunity to appeal directly to the American people about the peaceful intentions of the USSR, with their own arguments about maintaining a true balance of power between the USSR and the USA in military term. This issue is quickly being distorted by Reagan’s administration.

Kennedy asked to convey that this appeal to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union is his effort to contribute a strong proposal that would root out the threat of nuclear war, and to improve Soviet-American relations, so that they define the safety of the world. Kennedy is very impressed with the activities of Y.V. Andropov and other Soviet leaders, who expressed their commitment to heal international affairs, and improve mutal understandings between peoples.

The senator underscored that he eagerly awaits a reply to his appeal, the answer to which may be delivered through Tunney.

Having conveyed Kennedy’s appeal to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Tunney also explained that Senator Kennedy has in the last few years actively made appearances to reduce the threat of war. Because he formally refused to partake in the election campaign of 1984, his speeches would be taken without prejudice as they are not tied to any campaign promises. Tunney remarked that the senator wants to run for president in 1988. At that time, he will be 56 and his personal problems, which could hinder his standing, will be resolved (Kennedy has just completed a divorce and plans to remarry in the near future). Taken together, Kennedy does not discount that during the 1984 campaign, the Democratic Party may officially turn to him to lead the fight against the Republicans and elect their candidate president. This would explain why he is convinced that none of the candidates today have a real chance at defeating Reagan.

We await instructions.

President of the committee
V. Chebrikov

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/kgb-letter-details-kennedy-offer-to
-ussr#.Ufr3NY2Ti-0

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

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Thursday, August 1, 2013 2:26 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

How does a person become so obsessed with hating "the left" that they are incapable of joining any discussion of virtually ANYTHING without trying to turn it into "the left is bad"? What a truly sad, pathetic life view it must be, to be so consumed, so dominated by one's hatred of a segment of society that that is all they can think about?

No, I didn't read it. It's totally irrelevant. It's from 1983, for Kriste's sake, and has nothing to do with Russia planning to enforce their anti-gay law during the Olympics, that much was obvious in the first couple of lines.

That Rap seems to never have anything valid to contribute to any thread, yet instead responds to almost all threads to say something INvalid, is incomprehensibly pitiful.

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Thursday, August 1, 2013 2:32 PM

America loves a winner!

I was answering your question about the Left's love affair w/ Soviet Russia.

You can't handle the truth.

Not remotely shocked.

"Hero" Ted Kennedy, the LION of the Senate, tried to conspire w/ the Soviets to undermine President Reagan, during the cold war.

Most would see that as an act of treason.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, August 2, 2013 4:23 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, Brenda; what you said. Rap knows full well it wasn't a question there's never been a "Left's love affair w/ Soviet Russia", and nobody's ever considered Russia "utopia". He's just using it as an excuse.

Putin's self-aggrandizement would be sadly amusing if he didn't have so much power. But then he's not the first of their leaders of whom that is true, and no doubt won't be the last. I always found it amusing that Star Trek modeled the Klingons on Russians, a certain aptness there... ;o)

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Friday, August 2, 2013 5:14 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Yeah, Brenda; what you said. Rap knows full well it wasn't a question there's never been a "Left's love affair w/ Soviet Russia", and nobody's ever considered Russia "utopia". He's just using it as an excuse.

Well, Lincoln Steffens and a lot of Progressives in the period just after the Russian Revolution considered it pretty good. Ever hear the Statement "I have seen the future, and it works"? That was Steffens' assessment of Stalinist Russia around 1919.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Steffens

Of course, he eventually saw the flaws in the Russian system, but he, and a lot of Progressives and U.S. Communists, believed for quite a while that Russian Communism worked.

ETA:

This is not to say that I wouldn't support all countries going to the Winter Olympics, and both gay and straight athletes getting together and holding a huge gay rights rally in the Olympic Park to call Putin's bluff.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, August 3, 2013 3:19 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"the Left wing utopia..."

equals

"Lincoln Steffens and a lot of Progressives in the period just after the Russian Revolution..."

Make a note, Byte, since you're tracking such things, of the next time they complain about someone saying "right wing..." does/says anything. At least the other case, it wasn't MY words, and it wasn't "THE Right wing..."

Since you're keeping track. And that's it for me and this threadjack, unless someone's interested in actually discussing the actual topic.

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Saturday, August 3, 2013 4:14 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
"the Left wing utopia..."

equals

"Lincoln Steffens and a lot of Progressives in the period just after the Russian Revolution..."

Make a note, Byte, since you're tracking such things, of the next time they complain about someone saying "right wing..." does/says anything. At least the other case, it wasn't MY words, and it wasn't "THE Right wing..."

Since you're keeping track. And that's it for me and this threadjack, unless someone's interested in actually discussing the actual topic.

Sorry, Niki, but you said, "...and nobody's ever considered Russia "utopia"."

Just pointing out that some people in the U.S. had.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, August 3, 2013 3:45 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I was wondering how laws get passed in Russia nowadays. Don't they have an elected parliament or something? So what's with all the Putin-bashing? It's not as if he made the laws. And if these laws were already on the books when Russia was selected, what nimrod chose the locale? (I'm looking at you IOC.)

To further explore these ideas - what if there's a gay wedded foreign Olympic couple who comes to the Olympics in a US state that doesn't recognize gay marriage? If one gets ill does the other get next-of-kin rights? Will the US Feds and the IOC FORCE that state to NOT enforce their laws? What if a foreign Olympic contestant gets raped and ends up in a Catholic hospital ER - will the US Feds and the IOC FORCE that hospital to NOT enforce their laws and dispense emergency contraception? How many backwards local, state, and federal laws will the US Feds and the IOC FORCE into NON-enforcement?

I don't expect I'll get an answer. Just pointing out that the US isn't the shining example of human rights we claim we are. And there's not a damn thing the Federal government and/ or the IOC are going to do about it.

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Saturday, August 3, 2013 4:27 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I was wondering how laws get passed in Russia nowadays. Don't they have an elected parliament or something? So what's with all the Putin-bashing? And if these laws were already on the books when Russia was selected, what nimrod chose the locale? (I'm looking at you IOC.)

The original cite notes that it's a new law, so I'd assume within the last year or so. That'd be well withing the Putin administration, even assuming you don't understand enough about Russian politics to know that Putin has been running the country since 1999.

Sorry you haven't been keeping up with politics in Russia, where the Putin government, or the puppet government of Dimitry Medvedev which was in power while Putin was constitutionally not allowed to run again(which law I'd expect he'll 'correct' shortly), has held a stranglehold on the government by fixing elections and jailing any candidate who opposes them on trumped up charges.

No. I won't provide you with cites. Anyone with the intelligence of a protazoa can search for info on the Russian government, assuming that they're so behind the curve that they have been completely oblivious to international news for the past twelve or so years.

Quote:
To further explore these ideas - what if there's a gay wedded foreign Olympic couple who comes to the Olympics in a US state that doesn't recognize gay marriage? If one gets ill does the other get next-of-kin rights? Will the US Feds and the IOC FORCE that state to NOT enforce their laws? What if a foreign Olympic contestant gets raped and ends up in a Catholic hospital ER - will the US Feds and the IOC FORCE that hospital to NOT enforce their laws and dispense emergency contraception? How many backwards local, state, and federal laws will the US Feds and the IOC FORCE into NON-enforcement?

I don't expect I'll get an answer. Just pointing out that the US isn't the shining example of human rights we claim we are.

The next possible Olympics in the U.S is in 2024 (look it up). Given the trend of the Supreme Court to look favorably on gay rights, I'd say that by then DOMA will be overturned, and that your question will be moot. Unfortunately, in 2024, you'll still be an asshole.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, August 3, 2013 4:44 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So let's see - according to the information below, the government of Russia consists of a Duma of 450 seats, A Federation Coucil of 166 Councillors, a President, AND a Prime Minister, and they are all apparently occupied by one person name Putin. I wish I had half his energy.

And, if abortion/ anti-birth control legislation keeps moving forward, my second question will be very relevant.

"Unfortunately, in 2024, you'll still be an asshole."

And that's for merely pointing out that Putin isn't responsible for the laws that are passed in Russia, and that the US has its own set of really backwards laws that are on the books and will be enforced when the Olympics comes to town.

Also, by 2024 I hope to have outlived you. Let's see ... by 2024 I'll be ... yes, statistically very doable.

Legislative elections were held in Russia on 4 December 2011.[1] At stake were the 450 seats in the State Duma, the lower house of the Federal Assembly of Russia (the legislature). United Russia won the elections with 49.32% of the vote, taking 238 seats or 52.88% of the Duma seats.

The 2012 Russian presidential election was held on 4 March 2012.[1] There were five officially-registered candidates: four representatives of registered parties and one independent. The election was for a new, extended term of six years.

Federation Council (Russian: ????´? ??????´???; Sovet Federatsii) is the upper house of the Federal Assembly of Russia (the parliament of the Russian Federation), according to the 1993 Constitution of the Russian Federation. Each of the 83[1] federal subjects of Russia – ... – sends two senators to the Council, for a total membership of 166 Councillors.

At the United Russia Congress in Moscow on 24 September 2011, Russian president Dmitry Medvedev proposed that his predecessor, Vladimir Putin stand for the Presidency in 2012; an offer which Putin accepted. Putin immediately offered Medvedev to stand on the United Russia ticket in the parliamentary elections in December and becoming Prime Minister of Russia at the end of his presidential term.[2]

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 2:33 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Sorry, Niki, but you said, "...and nobody's ever considered Russia "utopia"."

Just pointing out that some people in the U.S. had.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

That's SOP for Niki and the Left, Geeze. Claim NO ONE considers , then after you offer up an example, they'll come back and claim no one ELSE , or some such. I've been down this road a few times w/ them. Giving them the example they ask for isn't enough. Nor is giving another and another and another.

If it counters their view of the world, it can't be true. End of discussion.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 6:19 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Sorry, Niki, but you said, "...and nobody's ever considered Russia "utopia"."

Just pointing out that some people in the U.S. had.

That's SOP for Niki and the Left, Geeze. Claim NO ONE considers , then after you offer up an example, they'll come back and claim no one ELSE , or some such. I've been down this road a few times w/ them. Giving them the example they ask for isn't enough. Nor is giving another and another and another.

If it counters their view of the world, it can't be true. End of discussion.

And now 1KIKI apparently thinks that the Russians have a nice, free and fair, democracy, so there's another person who, even if not claiming 'Utopia' thinks everything is fine there.

While, BTW, hoping for my death.

What a good Liberal.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 6:22 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Wow. Two illiterate idiots who agree on an idiocy. WHO WOULDA' THUNK.

btw old fart - YOUR sop - pretending people post things they don't actually post.

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:37 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
And now 1KIKI apparently thinks that the Russians have a nice, free and fair, democracy, so there's another person who, even if not claiming 'Utopia' thinks everything is fine there.

Ignore the whole Pussy Riot trial, and it's easy to buy into the utopia myth!

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:43 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

And the old fart's sidekick, going along with the dementia.

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:46 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Indeed, Kiki. At no time did I EVER type "and nobody's ever considered Russia "utopia"."

I snarked. And I don't see that anything has YET proven Russia was ever considered "utopia", and certainly not by "the Left", even if Geezer wants to keep playing the game and look up individual instances when someone has considered it such.

Nonetheless, Geezer's ability to nit-pick over minutiae and focus on it while steadfastly avoiding the issue at hand is also duly noted.

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Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:57 AM