Joss and I agree by Niki2

Quote:
I agree with Joss, but with some caveats.

We're not going to destroy the planet. 9_9 The planet is four billion years old and managed to outlast having a good fifth or so of the crust ejected from the surface by an asteroid impact to form the moon. There are also various limitations for Earth in regards to extreme events like a Venusuvian runaway greenhouse effect or Marsian atmosphere loss. So whatever happens with the climate will probably over a very long period of time eventually reach an equilibrium - though likely without any of us or existing animal species as we know them still around.

We PROBABLY will destroy ourselves. It might be by climate change, but it's a good bet it'll be via something even dumber. 100 years is a pretty long time for a civilization after all, and look at all the lovely chemical and biological weapons our idiot scientists are working on. And that's without a possible Artificial Intelligence war or nanotechnology doomsday.

You're an existential cynic, Joss. Remember existentialism? Life sucks and we're all going to die anyway? The means by which we die are actually not all that important.

*shrug*

I have some ideas about solutions as well, but this world is pretty much bullshit and he's right on the money there.

Speaking of, for the lols, maybe we should form a betting pool about what will be the downfall of humanity/civilization. Of course none of us will be able to collect, but even the Romans knew that in the end times you might as well keep people entertained.

We should gather some ideas and make a rudimentary effort at presenting the odds.

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:09 PM

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/apocalypse-now-with-dan-martin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risks_to_civilization,_humans,_and_planet
_Earth

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:31 PM

America loves a winner!

I feel sorry for any 8 year old who has to hear the doom and gloom of climate change when in fact, there's nothing to worry about. That is, nothing to worry about more than the realities of living in a hostile world in a hostile universe, which often has periods of calm and tranquility.

Joss admitting he has no hope is a bit discouraging, though it does explain a lot. That seems to be the underlying theme of all his movies and stories.

Fight the good fight, even against all odds, and even when things look their darkest, if you keep on fighting, there's always a chance.

Until you realize all is lost, and you're doomed.

Seriously. His stories are like that, almost always. The hero is basically dead, or does die, and ( for effect only ) comes back to life, or makes a herculean effort to fight their way back.

And then everyone dies.

The end.

Well, that WILL be the ultimate story of this planet, and our universe, there's a whole lot more to the story to be told.

Joss reminds me a bit of Denethor, from Lord of the Rings. Yes, there is doom and gloom, if you look through the Palantir and see only the bad parts. But you have to pull back, and look at the greater whole.

As bad and brutal as the ugly gets, it all doesn't suck.

Really, Joss. It doesn't !

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:41 PM

Quote:
As bad and brutal as the ugly gets, it all doesn't suck.

...Pretty sure that's the definition of sucking. Bad, brutal, and ugly. Happening to someone. Every second. Multiple times per second to multiple different people. An incomprehensible endless scream into the universe of pain and suffering dwindling to nothing, over and over and over, 7 billion voices vying for their agony to be heard.

The rest of the time it's disgusting procreative rituals that lead to fleeting moments of heightened brain-chemical induced delusion, but which never drown out the one final truth - you will all die someday. Forever. Extinguished into the vast void of a universe that does not care.

Enjoy!

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:46 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
As bad and brutal as the ugly gets, it all doesn't suck.

...Pretty sure that's the definition of sucking. Bad, brutal, and ugly. Happening to someone. Every second. Multiple times per second to multiple different people. An incomprehensible scream into the universe of pain and suffering dwindling to nothing.

The rest of the time it's disgusting procreative rituals that lead to fleeting moments of heightened brain-chemical delusions, but which never drown out the one final truth - you will all die.

Enjoy!

The point being, which some how you missed, is that even though there's ugly somewhere in the world, it's not every where, all the time.

But hey, for those who want to play the King of Pain, go for it.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

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" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:50 PM

Quote:
The point being, which some how you missed, is that even though there's ugly somewhere in the world, it's not every where, all the time.

:(

Yes it is.

Even the things you consider "good" actually hurt. That is where the term "bittersweet" comes from. The more good it is, the more it hurts. The more bad it is, the more it hurts. The more bland it is, the more it hurts. Hurts. Neverending. Hurts hurts hurts hurts hurts.

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:54 PM

America loves a winner!

Thinking of you, Byte -

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

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" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 8:52 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I don't think Joss said anything about it "all" sucking. He says a lot more in that interview, maybe Rap should read the whole thing before "judging" everything about the man from one statement. Or not, that might be too much for him.

And oh, yeah: "His stories are like that, almost always. The hero is basically dead, or does die, and ( for effect only ) comes back to life, or makes a herculean effort to fight their way back.

And then everyone dies.

The end."

Buffy. Firefly/Serenity. Avengers. Yeah, that's what they're all like, everybody died. You betcha.

And Byte, we know how you feel about the world, but that doesn't make it "so". Not for anyone else. I get more joy out of every day than I think anyone deserves, and we ain't got much, we're old and physically screwed up. If one looks for it, there's joy all around, and laughter to be had without even asking for it. I'd bet Joss would agree.

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 9:06 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Buffy. Firefly/Serenity. Avengers. Yeah, that's what they're all like, everybody died. You betcha.

Not to go all spoilery, but did you SEE Cabin in the Woods ?

Last episode of Buffy - Spike dies. Anya dies. Gee, anyone else ? Sunnydale is a giant hole in the ground.

Last episode of Angel - Sure, Spike has 'come back', but for how long ? Wesley dies. Gunn pretty much dies ( heading into a major battle, already bleeding out )

* Sorry, I don't follow the comic books, so what's on screen is what I'm left with

Wash and Shepherd Book both die in Serenity. .. Fanty and Mingo aren't shown dying, but we're to assume the worst. Mr Universe gets a sword put through him. How weird is that? Not major characters , but I still liked 'em.

Mal, Simon and Kaylee only lived because Joss was hoping for 1 more movie, at least. Inara is gonna die, and soon.

Dr. Horrible - Penny dies.

And I'm not even going to touch Dollhouse!

And those are just how those shows left OFF! I don't have time to rattle off the characters who had already died, through out the show!

screw it... here's a video

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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:05 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
As bad and brutal as the ugly gets, it all doesn't suck.

...Pretty sure that's the definition of sucking. Bad, brutal, and ugly. Happening to someone. Every second. Multiple times per second to multiple different people. An incomprehensible endless scream into the universe of pain and suffering dwindling to nothing, over and over and over, 7 billion voices vying for their agony to be heard.

The rest of the time it's disgusting procreative rituals that lead to fleeting moments of heightened brain-chemical induced delusion, but which never drown out the one final truth - you will all die someday. Forever. Extinguished into the vast void of a universe that does not care.

Enjoy!

Please say you don't really believe this.

It makes me frightened for you.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 3:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
As bad and brutal as the ugly gets, it all doesn't suck.

...Pretty sure that's the definition of sucking. Bad, brutal, and ugly. Happening to someone. Every second. Multiple times per second to multiple different people. An incomprehensible endless scream into the universe of pain and suffering dwindling to nothing, over and over and over, 7 billion voices vying for their agony to be heard.

The rest of the time it's disgusting procreative rituals that lead to fleeting moments of heightened brain-chemical induced delusion, but which never drown out the one final truth - you will all die someday. Forever. Extinguished into the vast void of a universe that does not care.

Enjoy!

Please say you don't really believe this.

It makes me frightened for you.

Of course I do. Because it's the truth. All the sunshine and the stars and the flowers and photogenic scenery in the world don't drown out what really goes on underneath it all. Beauty is only skin-deep, you know. Just a lovely pointless facade over the endless cruelties the universe subjects us to. Just as nasty in it's own way as the more direct and blatantly vicious tricks played on us.

You think a hug, you think kindness can shield you from the darkness, but it's only yet another lie. Control and protectiveness and selfish interest and a grand cosmic biological JOKE, all toted and exaggerated until it's twisted up and unidentifiable, a silhouette of an embrace left after the bomb has gone off, washed away after enough time and rain.

The reality is this - you are on your own to make your way in a world where everything will either hurt you or kill you. And in the end, all your struggles have only the meaning that you want to give them, and the universe has no memory. But it's all you have.

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:56 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yes, Geezer; but it doesn't make me afraid for her, it makes me deeply, deeply sad for her. Life IS what we choose to make it, and for many (I think most?) of us, "in the end, all your struggles have only the meaning that you want to give them" is enough; we reach out to others, we give of ourselves, and the meaning it gives us is enough. If you focus on the ugliness all the time, you both get and give nothing; I couldn't live that way and I don't know why she does, but it does something for her, it has to, so nobody can change it for her.

The sheer amazingness of the world around me CAN'T allow me to focus on only the negative, any more than I think it can for Joss. It really doesn't take much effort to volunteer for something that gives back a hundred fold, to reach out in friendship and get friendship back, but unless one wants to, nobody can make them. If one chooses to wallow in the horror, nobody can stop them, only pity them.

Certainly everyone is selfish; all creatures are. But the fact that doing something which makes us feel good about ourselves is selfish doesn't change that it's good in and of itself nonetheless. Nature is no kinder than our own species, just instinctively harsh rather than intentionally so; not to find joy in a world so filled with wonder, despite recognizing the horror, is incredibly sad to me.

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Byte: Old Proverb - if you do not know the answer, then you must BE the answer.

Whether or not these things are true, we have the ability, the resources, the humane drive to MAKE them true - from everything on a personal, individual scale, to a global one.... all that really matters is how long your reach is.

Fuck biology, it doesn't have all that much to do with HUMANITY, the root of which is... humane, and while yes its an artificial concept, it is in my opinion the finest creation of our species, right next to heresy.

-Frem

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:40 PM

Quote:
The sheer amazingness of the world

-_-

Oh good, my emotional state turned over to anger again.

I find it amazing that in all the time you worked with people on your website Niki you never once encountered anyone who had simple major depression with suicidal tendencies.

I'm not really sure how that's even possible.

But hey, you can make snide comments about how this is what just I want to be like and the world I want to live in, because I could totally change everything about me if I wanted to hard enough. Surely that's an accurate representation of the situation and maybe if I just did a 180 degree flip with my attitude everything in all directions wouldn't look like hopeless futile bullshit.

Yes, if everything just stopped being the WAY IT ACTUALLY IS and I took the zombie-making pills, I could be a happy person! Merely asserting that the world is wonderful and people don't suffer and live horrible short lives filled with disease and hunger and abuse overshadowed constantly by death and makes it TRUE.

I give someone money to help them and feel horrible the rest of the day and go hungry because that was for my DAMNED LUNCH AND DINNER and you get to smile at me and tell me good for selfish reasons is still good and it feels good. Every day I fail catastrophically in everything I set out to do, and I am too tired to try to save everyone and I have death staining my hands because of it but that is merely because I am not CHEERFUL enough.

I have been blind all along.

Case. Solved.

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:48 PM

America loves a winner!

There. Feel better ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 7:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

There. Feel better ?

...You... CONDESCENDING...

No. I don't have to put up with you or anyone.

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 7:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Oh, come on...

It can't be THAT bad.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 7:18 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Nothing snide about it, Byte, whether you believe it or not, I hurt for your inability to find any joy in life. But I'll never agree that it's "the way it actually is".

I've spent many years, personally and on line, dealing with people with depression and bipolarity--you forget I AM one, and suffered a major crash myself which cost me just about everything. I've LOST people to suicide, I brought one from England and lived through hell with her for over four years, I've got friends who have gone through multiple ECT just to try and survive, and everything in between. The difference is you seem to absolutely ENJOY it, and I've never known anyone to do that, so I don't believe it's mental illness per se. The people I've known want to fight back, WANT to feel better, so we work together, many have helped me, I've tried to help others, and we support one another.

Of course pills aren't the answer, obviously. Sometimes medication can help, get us far enough out of what we call The Chasm that we can START to fight back, but the one thing we ALL agree on is taking personal responsibility. You don't give any indication of wanting to fight back; the way you write you actually seem to REVEL in being Bad, desperately wanting to convince people you're Bad; that I do not understand.

I've never known anyone suffering from clinical depression who is so determined to INSIST the world is hell and everyone else MUST agree; sometimes it's personally hell for us, and sometimes that goes on for years, but we don't try to convince everyone else that it IS hell, we know it's just that way for US. You're welcome to your opinion, but it's yours and I disagree.

Never once did I even hint "that the world is wonderful and people don't suffer and live horrible short lives filled with disease and hunger and abuse overshadowed constantly by death", don't pull that bullshit. I LIVED in Afghanistan, which had more hunger and disease than you'll ever know, and I know those people found reasons to live, to love, to have children, find meaning in life, and even be happy at times, THAT's "the WAY IT ACTUALLY IS".

Yeah, what Frem said. I'm not going to get into this shit with you.

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Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:33 PM

You know, it's fascinating, in a way that's not funny at all, I've also talked a number of people down from suicide. Including here on this board. Case in point: http://www.fireflyfans.net/blog.aspx?bid=9206

And point of fact, it never once involved telling people that they're faking, that they must just want to be this way, that they just want attention, they must get something out of feeling goddawful, that they have a choice so it's their fault for feeling that way, or getting pissed off when blasting positivity at someone who is unable to experience positivity doesn't work.

Perhaps you simply haven't encountered all the delightful nuances of what depression can be. Such as, for example, self-loathing, and soul-numbing emptiness, and rage. In that case, I've found that these postings are very clarifying on the subject, and I can also say that I relate with every part of them and have experienced most of the situations described herein.

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression
.html
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/05/sneaky-hate-spiral.html

But, of course, you know better than I do what I feel and have experienced or not. After all, I'm just faking for attention, because my experience hasn't been like your experience.

You say things like that, and then you blame ME for getting angry. But if someone said that you were faking bipolarity, or that you ENJOYED it, I imagine it would PISS YOU OFF quite a bit.

But because I have problems and am not in remission and am not very likeable, I'm not allowed to defend myself. You don't have the time of day to give me, because according to you, I'm not really suicidal, so why don't I just shut up and stop bothering everyone. How nice.

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Friday, September 6, 2013 12:15 AM

America loves a winner!

Well, if it makes ya feel any better, some here don't even think I'm human.

Which should have them asking... how do I even type on a keyboard ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, September 6, 2013 3:49 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

We are led to believe a lie
When we see not thro' the eye,
Which was born in a night to perish in a night,
When the soul slept in beams of light.

William Blake 1757-1827

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Friday, September 6, 2013 4:37 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You say things like that, and then you blame ME for getting angry. But if someone said that you were faking bipolarity, or that you ENJOYED it, I imagine it would PISS YOU OFF quite a bit.

But because I have problems and am not in remission and am not very likeable, I'm not allowed to defend myself. You don't have the time of day to give me, because according to you, I'm not really suicidal, so why don't I just shut up and stop bothering everyone. How nice.

Which is what pisses me off too, the sheer condescending patronizing of it all, why can't you bastards accept a person for who they are even if that happens to be something you do not like or agree with, and even when you do mouth platitudes they're so goddamn obviously insincere that they're fucking insults instead... seriously, stop pretending, right ?
Cause that's WORSE than outright hatred.

And frankly I resent even bothering to point this out, as I am dealing with chasing religious hellcamp recruiters outta my neighborhood, and a shockingly long list of actual fatal casualties within my family, organisation and associates over the past month along with a society gleefully charging right at Idiocracy as if it were some kind of noble ideal or some shit and me just wanting to take a flamethrower to the lot and revel in their screams.

Why can't you just accept, at least tentatively, what a Darkhearted tells you about how they feel, think they feel, how they relate to you, instead of trying to dismiss and insult them while manufacturing a "reality" more palatable to YOU and throwing it in their face demanding they believe it.

Seriously - What. The. Fuck?

-Frem

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Friday, September 6, 2013 10:17 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Stop it Byte. I NEVER said you were "faking" OR that you "enjoyed" anything, and you know it. I DO accept you as you are; what you're doing is INSISTING that misery is all there is, PERIOD, that everyone else has to agree with you, and YOU'RE the one attacking everyone who says that isn't so, that we can TRY to take personal responsibility for fighting back against what our brains tell us. That's what I'm debating; I've said quite clearly that you're welcome to your opinion, but that it's YOUR OPINION, not how "everything" actually IS. If you want to keep twisting my words and try to make me some kind of bad guy, nobody can stop you, but that doesn't mean we HAVE to agree with you or else we're attacking you.

Of course, I can't make you stop it, so go right ahead and villainize me if it makes you feel better; that doesn't change that it's bullshit.

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Friday, September 6, 2013 1:10 PM

This thread was started to discuss Joss' philosophy, existentialism, which has some overlap because I am also an existentialist.

So I explain the tenants and aspects of the philosophy, and my own particular colorization of it, and the utter inability to conceive of the world being different from how I described it and as usual get LAMBASTED for it, and that's "trying to change people" and forcing my worldview on others.

I was asked! I was asked by this thread, and then by Geezer, for clarification! And if I don' t INSIST on my worldview, and WHO DOESN'T, people get this idea like maybe they can cheer me up! You can't just "cheer up" mental illness!

My worldview is what it is. And I get tired of being punished by you lot whenever I express myself.

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Friday, September 6, 2013 4:57 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, that's a shock. What I've been trying to say has been "all you can try to do is turn it into a positive." Apparently G is quoting what YOU wrote in a post some time in the past, is that correct? How is that any different from what I've been writing in this thread?

Nobody here has "lambasted" or "punished" you. You keep doing that, villifying someone with terms which are NOT what the person wrote or intended, then claiming YOU'RE the one being "punished". We have disagreed, and we have expressed our opinions. You want to talk "lambasted"? Try this:

"it never once involved telling people that they're faking, that they must just want to be this way, that they just want attention, they must get something out of feeling goddawful, that they have a choice so it's their fault for feeling that way, or getting pissed off when blasting positivity at someone who is unable to experience positivity doesn't work". .."But, of course, you know better than I do what I feel and have experienced or not. After all, I'm just faking for attention, because my experience hasn't been like your experience"..."You don't have the time of day to give me, because according to you, I'm not really suicidal, so why don't I just shut up and stop bothering everyone. How nice."

Read what you wrote: That's about as snide and nasty "lambasting" as it comes. It's your JUDGMENT of me, not a single thing I said, meant or believe, but you put it right out there, twist it around, embellish it, aim it at me and fire.

How can you possibly, as you have many times, write things like that and claim you don't hate me?

Lady, "Perhaps you simply haven't encountered all the delightful nuances of what depression can be. Such as, for example, self-loathing, and soul-numbing emptiness, and rage." I've experienced all, and more, and I've TRIED suicide, twice. I keep fighting back because I recognize that the problem, as you so eloquently described, IS IN MY HEAD. It's ME, my perceptions, not "the world", the world is what I make it; sometimes I can make it better, sometimes I can't, but I don't go around insisting the WORLD is horrible and awful and there's nothing redeeming in it. I recognize the horrors of the world, but I also recognize the beauties, even if I can't see or feel them myself sometimes.

Quote:
Pretty sure that's the definition of sucking. Bad, brutal, and ugly. Happening to someone. Every second. Multiple times per second to multiple different people. An incomprehensible endless scream into the universe of pain and suffering dwindling to nothing, over and over and over, 7 billion voices vying for their agony to be heard.

The rest of the time it's disgusting procreative rituals that lead to fleeting moments of heightened brain-chemical induced delusion, but which never drown out the one final truth - you will all die someday. Forever. Extinguished into the vast void of a universe that does not care.

Enjoy!

You don't say "for me...", you insist that's THE WAY IT IS. YOU are the one demanding we all agree the world is horrible, period, end of story. I won't agree to that, so that makes me someone pretty awful in your judgment. I reject your judgment.

Play by yourself, it's absurd to continue.

Thank you G, you're very kind.

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Friday, September 6, 2013 7:16 PM