REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Governor Jerry Brown signs bill allowing nurses and midwives to perform abortions in California

POSTED BY: JONGSSTRAW
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 13:17
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Sunday, October 13, 2013 10:48 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

California Governor Jerry Brown has signed two bills allowing non-physicians to perform abortions and reducing health standards for abortion facilities, saying the new laws “support the health and well-being of women.”

California is the fifth state to allow or not explicitly ban the practice of non-physician abortion, joining Montana, New York, Oregon, and Vermont. The bill, A.B. 154, introduced by San Diego Democrat Toni Atkins, would authorize midwives, nurse practitioners, and physicians’ assistants to perform first-trimester suction aspiration abortions.

A study conducted by Tracy Weitz, director of UC-San Francisco’s Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health, found that abortions performed by non-physicians had twice the rate of complications as those performed by doctors. However, Dr. Weitz called the difference “clinically equivalent.”

The new law, which originally passed the General Assembly in May, cleared the State Senate last month by a near-party line vote of 25-11. Lou Correa of Anaheim was the only Senate Democrat to vote against the bill.

“The growing shortage of abortion providers creates a significant barrier for women,” said State Senator Hannah-Beth Jackson, D-Santa Barbara.

The Guttmacher Institute has reported that in 2008 nearly one-third of all the nation's abortion providers, more than 500, worked in California.

In pointed contrast to a growing trend across the nation of tightening health regulations on abortion, Governor Brown also signed a bill lowering standards for abortion facilities.

A.B. 980 by Assemblymember Richard Pan, D- Sacramento, reverses health regulations intended to hold abortionists' offices to the same standards as other surgical facilities. Other states, such as Texas and Virginia, have been increasing office regulations after reading about the filthy conditions of abortion offices like Kermit Gosnell's and others across the nation.

State Senator Mimi Walters, R-Irvine, objected that "lowering standards...does put women's health at risk."


http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/governor-jerry-brown-signs-bill-allow
ing-nurses-and-midwives-to-perform-abo


NO hospital.
NO doctor.
Gee, what if there are COMPLICATIONS? Yanno, like those silly urgent medical complications that just seem to pop up unexpectedly as they did in the Little Philadelphia Abortion Shop of Horrors.

Let the butchering begin!



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Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:29 AM

MAL4PREZ




Yeah, and I saw that thread you started about the danger of women being "allowed" to give birth in their own homes under the care of these same midwives as has been legal and regularly practiced for a long time by many who make that choice...

Oh wait? You didn't start such a thread? You never once fretted and moaned about the danger of complications for women who choose to give birth on their own terms?

Hmmm, I wonder why.....



*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Sunday, October 13, 2013 4:18 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Yep, pack up your coat hangers, vice grips, and folding tables and head off to California and open your own abortion mill. Guaranteed you'll make a killing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frampton don't need no doctor! Play it loud, sing it proud






With props to the original






Post-Frampton Humble Pie


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Sunday, October 13, 2013 6:55 PM

JONGSSTRAW





THE BEVERLY ABORTIONISTS

Come and listen to a story 'bout a man named Fred
A laid off telemarketer barely kept his family fed
And then one day Granny said Jerry Brown just signed a law
Allowing abortions to be performed by anyone with a claw.

Well first thing you know Fred opens an abortion clinic
Cousin Luther won't help 'cause he's a guldarn cynic
Granny says Fred, I brung along the big soup ladle
So if there's a mess, we just scoop it off the table.

Human tissue slop that is, not a person, tastes like chicken.

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Monday, October 14, 2013 10:18 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Yep, pack up your coat hangers, vice grips, and folding tables and head off to California and open your own abortion mill. Guaranteed you'll make a killing.



Do you have a vague comprehension of the fact that nurses and midwives are actual health professionals with a great deal of expertise?

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Monday, October 14, 2013 11:13 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Yeah, a great deal of expertise to do the easy stuff, or assist on the complicated stuff. They're not qualified for ...

surgery
radiology
anesthesia
cardiology
they can't prescribe drugs

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Monday, October 14, 2013 11:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Forget about it, Rouka; Jong went off the deep end some time ago, he has no "comprehension" of anything but the vilest talking-points he can spew. No logic or rationalization will ever reach him. He and his ilk want only back-street butchers performing abortions, people with actual medical knowledge can ONLY be the same.


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Monday, October 14, 2013 11:48 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
He and his ilk want only back-street butchers performing abortions, people with actual medical knowledge can ONLY be the same.

No Nikwit, we want doctors in hospitals to do the job. Jeeez, you're such a stupid fat ass moron.

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Monday, October 14, 2013 12:07 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Yeah, a great deal of expertise to do the easy stuff, or assist on the complicated stuff. They're not qualified for ...

surgery
radiology
anesthesia
cardiology
they can't prescribe drugs



I honestly don't think you know how complex the work of nurses is and how thorough their knowledge has to be. Way to belittle the scope of their work.

Also, you don't seem to consider that these aren't unsupervised "private enterprise" abortions that nurses and midwives will just happily engage in on weekends and after dark in a convenient dirty alley. It's trained healthcare professionals. Specifically trained. Doing this officially, subject to scrutiny. You think nurses will do this and risk their entire career unless they can be certain of actually being capable?

Also, increasing the availability of first-trimester abortions, ensuring that women can get them on time when there's a shortage of doctors available, actually would point to increasing the safety of women getting the procedure. The earlier, the less complicated.

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Monday, October 14, 2013 12:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The other thing is that nurses and midwives are licensed by their various boards, just like doctors, surgeons, dentists, EMTs, and medical technologists. And if you think the boards are ineffective at weeding out the bad actors, that applies to doctors and surgeons as well as midwives and nurses, so your whole rationale "But it's gotta be a DOCTOR" flies out the window.

Go away, and come back with an argument that makes sense, and not some two-faced "concern for women's health and safety".

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Monday, October 14, 2013 12:21 PM

JONGSSTRAW


The bottom line is they're not qualified to handle emergencies and complications that can occur. An accidental tear or puncture during a procedure might be a death sentence if the patient had to be put in an ambulance and driven some distance to a hospital. Bad law. Bad medicine. Less than 1/3 of the states allow this recklessness.

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Monday, October 14, 2013 3:16 PM

AGENTROUKA


You realize that not all abortions are performed in hospitals to begin with and if a doctor in his practice made a catastrophic mistake of the kind you describe, the women in question would likely need to travel the same distance? They're not setting up shop in some backyard, they're going to be doing this work, one would assume, in the same kind of environment other first-trimester abortions would be performed. The difference is in the academic degree of the medical professional doing the procedure, primarily, not the setting and expected standard of care.

These are nurses who are specifically trained to perform these procedures, thus also trained to recognize and react to complications.

What DO you think nurses and midwives do?

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Monday, October 14, 2013 3:42 PM

JONGSSTRAW


I don't like clinics for abortions, even with a doctor and nurse there. It's not the same as a hospital. Abortions should only be performed at hospitals, period. Dr. Gosnell ran a Planned Parenthood-approved clinic too. That kind of systemic barbarity that went on for years could never have happened at a hospital.

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Monday, October 14, 2013 3:54 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I don't like clinics for abortions, even with a doctor and nurse there. It's not the same as a hospital. Abortions should only be performed at hospitals, period. Dr. Gosnell ran a Planned Parenthood-approved clinic too. That kind of systemic barbarity that went on for years could never have happened at a hospital.



Then can ALL minor medical procedures be restricted to hospitals, please? Unless that's what you are advocating for, in which case you'd at least be consistent.

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Monday, October 14, 2013 4:09 PM

JONGSSTRAW


To answer that question there needs to be a consensus of what is a "minor" medical procedure and what isn't. I don't consider an abortion to be a "minor" medical procedure. I suppose you do, and therein lies the heart of the matter.

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Monday, October 14, 2013 5:00 PM

MAL4PREZ


And yet Jongs won't address mid-wife assisted birth that women across the country elect to do in their very own homes. No doctors or emergency rooms. Why no problem with this Jongs? Aren't you concerned with the safety of women?

Jongs, you clearly think childbirth is a "minor" thing compared to abortion. As if we need more proof of what a biased idiot you are.

*eyeroll*

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Monday, October 14, 2013 6:03 PM

AGENTROUKA


First trimester abortions in the majority of cases? Very much minor, medically speaking. No full anesthesia, you go home the same day, you recover fairly quickly. There can be complications but they can happen with all manner of minor procedures and surgeries that people have outside of hospitals.

Just because a procedure is socially controversial doesn't make it automatically fraught with risk if performed correctly by a trained medical professional.

So yeah, unless you're calling for hospital-only rules for all minor procedures, you're not being consistent.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2013 10:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oral surgery is about the same level of risk as an early abortion. Childbirth is much riskier than abortion. Just the stats, ma'am.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 12:54 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


In the words of the incomparable Dan Akroyd:

"Jane, you ignorant slut!"

For those of you that don't have mush for brains, please bear with me whilst I explain to the unfortunate few:

I worked in a major NY Hospital for 6 years, this procedure was performed by nurses in the Ambulatory Room, which is to say a day hospital stay, an early-morning appointment followed by the procedure; a short recovery room stay, then sent home by the end of the day. Barring complications.

If a complication would arise, the patient was taken to the OR. Treated by a doctor, recovery, then released.

For one, it lowers health care costs; and two, it provides a service where needed.

Class dismissed.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

California Governor Jerry Brown has signed two bills allowing non-physicians to perform abortions and reducing health standards for abortion facilities, saying the new laws “support the health and well-being of women.”

California is the fifth state to allow or not explicitly ban the practice of non-physician abortion, joining Montana, New York, Oregon, and Vermont. The bill, A.B. 154, introduced by San Diego Democrat Toni Atkins, would authorize midwives, nurse practitioners, and physicians’ assistants to perform first-trimester suction aspiration abortions.

A study conducted by Tracy Weitz, director of UC-San Francisco’s Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health, found that abortions performed by non-physicians had twice the rate of complications as those performed by doctors. However, Dr. Weitz called the difference “clinically equivalent.”

The new law, which originally passed the General Assembly in May, cleared the State Senate last month by a near-party line vote of 25-11. Lou Correa of Anaheim was the only Senate Democrat to vote against the bill.

“The growing shortage of abortion providers creates a significant barrier for women,” said State Senator Hannah-Beth Jackson, D-Santa Barbara.

The Guttmacher Institute has reported that in 2008 nearly one-third of all the nation's abortion providers, more than 500, worked in California.

In pointed contrast to a growing trend across the nation of tightening health regulations on abortion, Governor Brown also signed a bill lowering standards for abortion facilities.

A.B. 980 by Assemblymember Richard Pan, D- Sacramento, reverses health regulations intended to hold abortionists' offices to the same standards as other surgical facilities. Other states, such as Texas and Virginia, have been increasing office regulations after reading about the filthy conditions of abortion offices like Kermit Gosnell's and others across the nation.

State Senator Mimi Walters, R-Irvine, objected that "lowering standards...does put women's health at risk."


http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/governor-jerry-brown-signs-bill-allow
ing-nurses-and-midwives-to-perform-abo


NO hospital.
NO doctor.
Gee, what if there are COMPLICATIONS? Yanno, like those silly urgent medical complications that just seem to pop up unexpectedly as they did in the Little Philadelphia Abortion Shop of Horrors.

Let the butchering begin!




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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:12 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Correctly stated, complications do arise in hospitals, so much so, that patients are often returned to the OR for immediate follow up. So those complications could occur anywhere.

The facility almost doesn't matter if the professional handling the procedure is a hack. The hospital in which I worked had 6 rooms devoted to that, and other reproductive procedures - performed by nurses.

The Operating room for open heart surgery had the most amount of complications and bring backs in the hospital. Mainly because Open-heart surgery was a major bread winner for the hospital and they tried to increase the number of cases per day. The doctor who was second in charge of those suites was good but careless, his patients would often comeback for follow-up procedures. He would often fight with ICU Recovery to hold the patients on their floor so as to maintain a good track record.

It was not pretty.


DNCs were several a day and would rarely run into complications.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
You realize that not all abortions are performed in hospitals to begin with and if a doctor in his practice made a catastrophic mistake of the kind you describe, the women in question would likely need to travel the same distance? They're not setting up shop in some backyard, they're going to be doing this work, one would assume, in the same kind of environment other first-trimester abortions would be performed. The difference is in the academic degree of the medical professional doing the procedure, primarily, not the setting and expected standard of care.

These are nurses who are specifically trained to perform these procedures, thus also trained to recognize and react to complications.

What DO you think nurses and midwives do?


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Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:17 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Correctly stated; my son was delivered at home by a midwife, with complications. He's an adult now, alive and well.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:


Yeah, and I saw that thread you started about the danger of women being "allowed" to give birth in their own homes under the care of these same midwives as has been legal and regularly practiced for a long time by many who make that choice...

Oh wait? You didn't start such a thread? You never once fretted and moaned about the danger of complications for women who choose to give birth on their own terms?

Hmmm, I wonder why.....



*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.


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