Why do you think you represent Firefly... or the Founding Fathers? by SIGNYM

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Why do you think you represent Firefly... or the Founding Fathers?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, October 21, 2013 00:53
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Friday, October 18, 2013 1:00 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Some of posters here claim to be speaking for Mal and the Founding Fathers. Personally, I find few areas of correspondance between ANYONE here and Firefly, OR the Founding Fathers. Also, I see little correspondance between Firefly and the Founding Fathers either, so how do you even tie those together in one thought?

So, if any of you would care to explain the ties that you see with such crystal clarity, please have at it. Be aware that you will probably be questioned rather closely as to how far your analogies extend and where they break down.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 2:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So statments like

Quote:
They're NOT Browncoats. They're big Govt. purplebellies. Libs love their big central Govt. and dependence on the controlling nanny state. Browncoats love personal freedom and independence. Browncoats would shoot these lib collaborators on sight. I can't imagine why any of 'em even like Firefly. The BDH's are against everything Obama and leftists stand for. I guess it's just something that ugly fat girls can bond over.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=56458
and

Quote:
Founding Fathers of our nation = " crazy ".
OK. Got it.

and

Quote:
Actually, I do. I agree with and represent what they [Founding Fathers] stood for and for what they fought [sic].

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=56442

are just sheer bloviation?

OK, I got it.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 3:12 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh I doubt I would have gotten on well with our Founding Fathers, hell, I prolly woulda saved Aaron Burr some ammo... BUT, I WOULD probably have been real tight with Patrick Henry, who thought they were despicable.
One need only to read his speeches to know why.

Mal... Mal I'd likely get along with just fine for the most part, but I do think we'd occassionally knock heads over the fact that sometimes the general society wants things you don't agree with and taking or breaking those things is every bit as bad as having them shoved on you unwilling.... but it's kinda hypocritical of me to call him out on grudge holding past the course of reason so prolly not often.

-F

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Friday, October 18, 2013 4:41 PM

WHOZIT

You drew the line, good for you.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 6:58 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Here's me thinking that Firefly was just a rollicking good TV series with a cast of loveable ruffians, rather than a credo for how to live your life.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 8:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Does this mean that we can ignore all of rappy's, jongsstraw's, and zit's protestations about being the second coming of Mal/ Jefferson/(fill in the blank)? 'Cause apparently they have nothing to say about their heroes, and can draw no correspondence between themselves and the people they claim to represent.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 9:14 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

It would take too much thinking for them to come up with something coherent on this topic. I mean why should this one be the exception.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 10:03 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Some of posters here claim to be speaking for Mal and the Founding Fathers. Personally, I find few areas of correspondance between ANYONE here and Firefly, OR the Founding Fathers. Also, I see little correspondance between Firefly and the Founding Fathers either, so how do you even tie those together in one thought?

So, if any of you would care to explain the ties that you see with such crystal clarity, please have at it. Be aware that you will probably be questioned rather closely as to how far your analogies extend and where they break down.

I'll pass. Firefly is about characters, not politics.

MYOB

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Friday, October 18, 2013 10:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SARGE you old son-of-a-gun! Long time no see.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 10:26 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SERGEANTX:

I'll pass. Firefly is about characters, not politics.

All art can be tied into/related to politics.
Firefly IMO explores many views, and doesn't attempt to answer questions as much as it poses them, as all great art does.

The Founding Fathers of this country were deeply flawed, as are all humans. They tried to rise above it, and succeeded to a degree. But they mostly had slaves, and this above all else shows the flaw in their system.
Great words are only words when the execution of them fails so miserably.
"WE, the people..."
Like Kirk said, they must apply to EVERYONE, or they mean nothing.
How do the Founding Fathers relate to our heroes in Firefly?

Well, Jayne...

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Friday, October 18, 2013 10:33 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SARGE you old son-of-a-gun! Long time no see.

Hey guys.

Yeah, it's been a while. Dropped back in to chat about Sleepy Hollow, actually. I think I'm done with politics. For now at least. Getting sort of tired of fighting for a lost cause.

MYOB

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Friday, October 18, 2013 10:36 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SERGEANTX:
I think I'm done with politics. For now at least. Getting sort of tired of fighting for a lost cause.

Still it's nice to see you again!

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Friday, October 18, 2013 10:45 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by SERGEANTX:
I think I'm done with politics. For now at least. Getting sort of tired of fighting for a lost cause.
Still it's nice to see you again!

Likewise! Nice to see so many of the gang still here.

MYOB

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Friday, October 18, 2013 10:53 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SERGEANTX:
Nice to see so many of the gang still here.

Still fighting the bad fight! ;)

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Saturday, October 19, 2013 1:09 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

SergX

I wondered what became of you! Nice to see you around. Hope you don'y mind that I edited your sign-off ...

BYOB

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Saturday, October 19, 2013 5:07 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I actually thought on this a while, whether I'd get along with most of the Firefly crew or not, and lemme run the list for ya.

Mal - so so, kinda mostly, I mean I would wanna get paid, but might forgo that here and there for good cause or to avoid hassles and entanglements.

Zoe - we grok, we click, professional, even when it sucks.

Jayne - I'd see him as a bit on the short-sighted greedy-stupid side and he'd see me as an old softie, but we'd work well together as a tag team for winding people up, and I would respect his tracking/bashing ability as he'd likely respect my low end cunning.

Wash - Probably not so much, he's a bit too uptight, by the book and protective of his perogatives, but he can fly so he gets a pass and I get on with his wife so I'd just not say nothin cause I dun wanna piss off Zoe.

Book - He'd REALLY kinda piss me off and I would avoid him, goddamn thug hiding under at thin verneer of religion, hoping for a redemption he hasn't earned and hypocritically preachin at ME?! fuck him... I'd respect his privacy and not pry, but wherever he'd be, I'd work at being somewhere else.

Simon - Well, I'd have some fun winding him up a bit, mostly cause his pretensious ass would get up my back and I would pile on the crudity to annoy him (or even tag-team it with Jayne), but secretly I would envy him maybe just a little, and I would respect his devotion to his sister more than I would ever ADMIT to him in a million years.

River - I'd prolly get on well, even maybe understand/comprehend/grok a LOT more of her crazy than anyone else and even play along a little if it makes her happy, she'd be the totally huggable kid sister I never really had, so long as she don't get all stabby and if/when she does I'd be first in line to protect the crew from her and her from herself even if it does mean a few nicks or an asskicking, I know what it is to be cursed with imperatives you cannot deny.

Kaylee - Fellow geek/hedonist/tinkerer... well it wouldn't be a marriage, per se given that I care not for the tradition and a little on the side is nothing to whine about, but we'd likely be driving everyone else up the goddamn wall between the constant hunka-chunka, still-building and tinkering, but I bet Serenity could outrun anything in her class, any time, any where!

-Frem

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Saturday, October 19, 2013 10:22 AM

AGENTROUKA

What, no mention of Inara? :)

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Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I wouldn't presume to represent the Founding Fathers. Part of the problem is that the FF represented a complex group of people. Oh, sure, we think of Jefferson and Adams and Washington and Franklin and ... uh.... Hamilton and... uh... Hamilton and.. uh .. Adams (did I say him already?) and... uh...

... but the fact is that 56 men signed the Declaration of Independence. I read a book, too many years ago to remember in detail, but it traced the history of every signer. Some were deacons, some were farmers, some were wealthy shippers, some were plantation owners, and some were busted ne'er-do-wells. How could I think that I might possibly represent all of them, or even some of them? (The person that I'm the most consistent with is Jefferson, but even he was a slaveholder.)

As far as Firefly... love the show. There is something political in it for people to think about, but it's not a simple message, because FF existed out of reach of both the government AND the corporations. And written, as was pointed out, by a liberal.

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Saturday, October 19, 2013 9:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Anyone who thinks they're uber-men able to live apart from the rest of humanity is not at all like the FF. After all the goal of the FF was to come together and create a society in which to live. They didn't creep in from the caves where they knapped arrowheads and chewed hides in total isolation from their compatriots, didn't set up a system of government made for survivalists, and didn't scurry back to the backwoods at the end, either.

And they were definitely limited by the mores and economics of their times. They could proudly claim 'all men are cretaed equal' and, apparently, not notice there was a female 50% of the population they overlooked. Then there were the native Americans, and the slaves. Non-landowners also need not consider themselves part of this grand equality.

Lots of nice words, which we're still trying to make good on.

As for the other FF - and by that I mean Firefly - it seems to have attracted a lot of southerners whose hides are STILL chapped to this day over the fact that they are no longer allowed to own slaves. Maybe someone should tell them it's time to get over it.

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Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:10 AM

BYTEMITE

In all honesty, I love the stories of the Firefly crew, but the likelyhood of me getting along with any of them if I knew them for real would be slim to none.

Including Kaylee, who really is as sweet as she comes across, but some of her attitudes bother the heck out of me. Inara I'd like as a person but she'd think I'm uncouth and caustic so we wouldn't really hang out. Wash is funny but he could also be annoying and get on the nerves. I'd have problems with Zoe's military background and attitude. Simon is uptight. River's problems would magnify with mine and vice-versa. Jayne is Jayne. Book is one of the better christians I've seen depicted in fiction, but the religion thing would still get to me and I'd probably end up offending him. And Mal is a huge gorramn mess, not nearly as fun to be around as it is to watch him on tv.

I'd probably respect them all though. Even after they locked me in the brig and had me sleeping on that belly airlock.

As for the founding fathers, they were fair for their time, and yet still irredeemable elitist genocidal rich people scum.

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Sunday, October 20, 2013 9:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Like so many things they claim, " just sheer bloviation" in my opinion.

As to the founding fathers, "The Founding Fathers of this country were deeply flawed, as are all humans." They started something; because of that they've become enshrined and "holy" to many, but they were just humans, and everything Sig said from "represented a complex group of people" on is how I feel.

Firefly? "Here's me thinking that Firefly was just a rollicking good TV series with a cast of loveable ruffians, rather than a credo for how to live your life." Amen. "Firefly IMO explores many views, and doesn't attempt to answer questions as much as it poses them, as all great art does." Amen as well; and that it does is typically Joss, who by his own words is far more liberal than conservative or libertarian.

"Does this mean that we can ignore all of rappy's, jongsstraw's, and zit's protestations about being the second coming of Mal/ Jefferson/(fill in the blank)?" Of course, because all they ever do is toss around "heroes" and figures they worship, and only think in two dimensions..."us" and "them". (You forgot Wulf, who is the quintessential example.)

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Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
What, no mention of Inara? :)

Well, to my mind she's not crew, she's a renter.
Besides which I'd have trouble figuring out how to take her, I wouldn't dis her like Mal does, but outside of any required professional capacity I'd prolly avoid her cause her "world" is so far from mine as to be incomprehensible to me.

-F

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Monday, October 21, 2013 12:53 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Dont know so much about the Founding Fathers, but I wouldn't mind joining the Firefly crew in an alternate universe.

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