REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Active Measures

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 19:18
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Sunday, March 5, 2017 11:38 AM

DREAMTROVE


Demoralize, destablize, push to crisis and normalize.
Soviet agent Yuri Bezmenov talks about the communist plan to destroy America
Full interview



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures

Don't know if I'm drinking this soviet koolaid, but it's interesting. here's more of this guy.




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Monday, March 6, 2017 8:33 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Demoralize, destablize, push to crisis and normalize.
Soviet agent Yuri Bezmenov talks about the communist plan to destroy America
Full interview



Quote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures

Don't know if I'm drinking this soviet koolaid, but it's interesting. here's more of this guy.




Quote:




That's just crazy talk. Didn't the Democrats esplain to you that the communists are our saviors? Just like, last week or last month, or, well, before Trump defeated Hilliary?

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Tuesday, March 7, 2017 5:18 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

That's just crazy talk. Didn't the Democrats esplain to you that the communists are our saviors? Just like, last week or last month, or, well, before Trump defeated Hilliary?


He's pretty convincing. More so than they are. Maybe that's why they lost, because they were running this old game against Russians, who knew it very well.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2017 6:24 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
He's pretty convincing. More so than they are. Maybe that's why they lost, because they were running this old game against Russians, who knew it very well.



I am working my way through these DT, thanks for posting. It may be a while and I may give up but I am enjoying them so far a great deal. Russians are not bombarded with so many distractions as we are, nor do I think they suffer from the same kind of hubris as our gov does. And they are just damn clever - world events and all.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2017 6:59 PM

OONJERAH


Does that mean ...
We out-muscle them,
But they can easily outsmart us?

Ook-ook :(



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2017 8:11 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
He's pretty convincing. More so than they are. Maybe that's why they lost, because they were running this old game against Russians, who knew it very well.



I am working my way through these DT, thanks for posting. It may be a while and I may give up but I am enjoying them so far a great deal. Russians are not bombarded with so many distractions as we are, nor do I think they suffer from the same kind of hubris as our gov does. And they are just damn clever - world events and all.


I haven't made it all the way through the long one, but I intend to. I had an excerpt up there originally, and it had some inane commentary, and redundancy, and clear missing pieces, so I hunted down the original.

This is a kind of weird evolution. German Communism was an evolution of what Germany did with French Socialism. And then Soivet Communism was a new twist on that. But now we have American German former commies, and eastern european, now in our political scene on both sides, trying to run this game back against them, which we've been doing for some years now.

Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Does that mean ...
We out-muscle them,
But they can easily outsmart us?

Ook-ook :(



Oon, I suspect that's true, in part because we don't focus on smart. We idolize the simple (typical american movie hero, lots of muscle, not a lot of smart.) End result, they beat us in chess.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2017 8:27 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Does that mean ...
We out-muscle them,
But they can easily outsmart us?

Ook-ook :(



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.



No, it means Russia has had to look for alternative ways ( other than military ), to distract the Russian people, and justify Putin's dictatorship. Make him seem not so bad and successful. So, he is accelerating cyber warfare as one way of accomplishing this.

We will decide how to deal with this. Remember, in the past for Russia to gather much of the information they are getting now, they would have had to land on American soil. That my friend is an act of war. That is why we need to think this through. We could if we had the will, create a cyber warfare budget that would match what the Russians run their entire country on.

Quote:

dreamtrove

Oon, I suspect that's true, in part because we don't focus on smart. We idolize the simple (typical american movie hero, lots of muscle, not a lot of smart.) End result, they beat us in chess.



Man you have a low opinion of America.
---------------------


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Tuesday, March 7, 2017 8:33 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
We could if we had the will, create a cyber warfare budget that would match what the Russians run their entire country on.



I'm with it. Build two big walls to the north and south. Line up our aircraft carriers on the east and west coasts. Pull out of all foreign nations. Cut our military spending by 2/3rds. Beef up cyber security. Let the world sort out their own problems.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2017 8:40 PM

OONJERAH



DreamTrove: "End result, they beat us in chess."


Good point. & It's less expensive that way.

Couldn't we just encourage, train, elect
all our brilliant kids like Joss Waitzkin ...
Then put them in charge?

("Searching for Bobby Fischer" 1993)


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2017 10:03 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

DreamTrove: "End result, they beat us in chess."


Good point. & It's less expensive that way.

Couldn't we just encourage, train, elect
all our brilliant kids like Joss Waitzkin ...
Then put them in charge?

("Searching for Bobby Fischer" 1993)


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

I saw that movie.


6,

I think the problem is that we use terms like "cyber warfare" we called hackers "terrorists" when the russians called them "heroes" and "journalists" and so all the hackers went over there.

I suspect if we stopped attacking people, no on would attack us.

Except for us, on occasion, when we really wanted to get us into a war.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2017 7:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

DreamTrove: "End result, they beat us in chess."


Good point. & It's less expensive that way.

Couldn't we just encourage, train, elect
all our brilliant kids like Joss Waitzkin ...
Then put them in charge?

("Searching for Bobby Fischer" 1993)



Have you heard of Mensa?
It was originally started as just that, a source of High-IQ people for the World Leaders to harness and cultivate solutions for problems. Alas, Leaders did not and do not want solutions, and they reject solutions. Who is going to get votes if the problems they campaigned on are resolved?
Otherwise, yes - it is a wonderful idea.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2017 8:43 PM

OONJERAH


"Mensa is the largest and oldest high IQ society in the world. It is a
non-profit organization open to people who score at the 98th percentile
or higher on a standardized, supervised IQ or other approved intelligence
test ... Roland Berrill and Dr. Lancelot Ware ... had the idea of forming
a society for very intelligent people, the only qualification for member-
ship being a high IQ. It was to be non-political and free from all other
social distinctions (racial, religious, etc.)."

Yeah ... just lifted the above from Wikipedia.
I haven't thought about Mensa in years.

Remembering it now ... the sort of personality & political popularity
that gets one elected ... is a different kind of intelligence.
Social intelligence doesn't show up on an IQ test. ... That was a silly
suggestion I made.

Social intelligence that fosters leadership may include a practical
grasp of the needs of society. Or not.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2017 8:43 PM

DREAMTROVE


I think we need to make sure that the people have some say in the resultant agenda, or otherwise you could end up with a soviet style system

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Thursday, March 9, 2017 7:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
"Mensa is the largest and oldest high IQ society in the world. It is a
non-profit organization open to people who score at the 98th percentile
or higher on a standardized, supervised IQ or other approved intelligence
test ... Roland Berrill and Dr. Lancelot Ware ... had the idea of forming
a society for very intelligent people, the only qualification for member-
ship being a high IQ. It was to be non-political and free from all other
social distinctions (racial, religious, etc.)."

Yeah ... just lifted the above from Wikipedia.
I haven't thought about Mensa in years.

Remembering it now ... the sort of personality & political popularity
that gets one elected ... is a different kind of intelligence.
Social intelligence doesn't show up on an IQ test. ... That was a silly
suggestion I made.

Social intelligence that fosters leadership may include a practical
grasp of the needs of society. Or not.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.


These might be a bit more clear:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1353130/Lancelot-Ware.html

https://www.mamensa.org/about/history-mensa-international/

The 2 Founders were Barristers in England, which may translate to English as Lawyers.

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Monday, March 13, 2017 7:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Lifting the pertinent excerpts from the posted linkys:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
These might be a bit more clear:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1353130/Lancelot-Ware.html
The original intention was that Mensa should become a panel of the intellectually gifted which could be consulted by governments. However, as governments showed no enthusiasm for consulting Mensa (whose members' opinions, when voiced, tended to come from the far Right), the organisation became better known as a social forum for people who scored more than 148 points in the society's IQ tests, and its convocations thought of (more vulgarly) as "the place where eggheads go to get laid".

https://www.mamensa.org/about/history-mensa-international/
Mensa started in its usual way, a mix of wacky and wonderful. The British founders were Roland Berrill, an Australian-English eccentric, and Lancelot Lionel Ware, a brilliant biologist-barrister. They met on a train from Cambridge to London and agreed that there should be a society for people with high IQ’s. Its original purpose was to be a think tank.

The 2 Founders were Barristers in England, which may translate to English as Lawyers.


Sorry I didn't complete that earlier.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 12:52 AM

1KIKI




/youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4/
This is G. Edward Griffin's shocking video interview, Soviet Subversion of the Free-World Press (1984), where he interviews ex-KGB officer and Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov who decided to openly reveal KGB's subversive tactics against western society as a whole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov
Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov (Russian: ???? ????????????? ????????, also known as Tomas David Schuman; 1939 – 1993[1]) was a journalist for RIA Novosti and a former PGU KGB informant from the Soviet Union who defected to Canada. (defected in 1970)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures
Active measures (Russian: ???????? ???????????) is a Soviet term for the actions of political warfare conducted by the Soviet and Russian security services (Cheka, OGPU, NKVD, KGB, FSB) to influence the course of world events, in addition to collecting intelligence and producing "politically correct" assessment of it.

/youtube.com/watch?v=GOEweZtlonQ/
perhaps 1984

/youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g/
date unknown - but certainly before Bezmenov's death in 1993


Aside from perhaps some historical interest, I don't see the relevance to today. Bezmenov defected in 1970, at which point his knowledge of anything Soviet - but since the USSR no longer exists (dissolution 1991) let's say Russian - passed into history. His defection was nearly 50 years ago. Since then, the USSR dissolved, Russia was wracked by gangster capitalism, and then crawled its way back to a semblance of normalcy.

And while I don't have personal information about Russia, either then or now, I do know people who do, including a friend who was part of the revolution against Selassie, a dear N Vietnamese friend who was college and masters educated gratis in the former graceful Czechoslovakia
(before Bill set his sights on it), and past and present Russian graduate students and post docs. I'd say there are far too many people from around the globe who've seen Russia in action, and far too many Russian expats, to take the distant solitary word of a single person - AS IF IT WAS THE ONLY RELEVANT STORY. Not especially when there are a multitude of voices that tell a more complete story about the past, and a more timely story about the present..





How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:40 AM

DREAMTROVE


The russian-ness isn't really the issue. He's communist party higher up, and you're not going to get the word of a lot of those. The relevance is that a number of people in american politics came from this and are using these tactics.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:48 PM

1KIKI


Oh, ok. Thanks. I was wondering. It did seem like a good parallel to us at this point in time.

My only comment is that the Russian expats today think the US is scary propagandized. Their observation is that people in the USSR/ Russia used to privately laugh at their government propaganda. But that Americans eat up the US propaganda with gusto, and never a second thought, or moment of puzzlement.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Oh, ok. Thanks. I was wondering. It did seem like a good parallel to us at this point in time.

My only comment is that the Russian expats today think the US is scary propagandized. Their observation is that people in the USSR/ Russia used to privately laugh at their government propaganda. But that Americans eat up the US propaganda with gusto, and never a second thought, or moment of puzzlement.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?


Those Communist ex-pats didn't have the latest smartphone, so they were less somnambulant.

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:44 PM

1KIKI


Hunh?

eta: I GUESS what you're trying to say is that so-called 'smart'phones are a medium for propaganda?

In as much as people think that newer technology is somehow more credible ...

I think people are leaving out the equation that government technology is always ahead of consumer technology. That something that's new technology, can also be compromised technology.




Originally posted by G:
I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:58 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Oh, ok. Thanks. I was wondering. It did seem like a good parallel to us at this point in time.

My only comment is that the Russian expats today think the US is scary propagandized. Their observation is that people in the USSR/ Russia used to privately laugh at their government propaganda. But that Americans eat up the US propaganda with gusto, and never a second thought, or moment of puzzlement.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?


Very true, and the Russian state media is really kind of fair and balanced compared to fox, which is light years ahead of CNN. But yeah, just saw a poll, 50% of fox viewers believe fox, 95% of CNN viewers believe CNN.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 7:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hunh?

eta: I GUESS what you're trying to say is that so-called 'smart'phones are a medium for propaganda?



Sorry I failed to be more clear.
Not more credible, more distracting.
As long as Americans have a fun smart phone, who cares about anything else? Criminals running the White House for the last 8 years? Peeps starving? Kardashians dropped clothing? Somebody got elected? Somebody voted illegally? Innocents murdered by Illegal Alien Career Criminals?
Who cares, my phone works and
HEY! A new app!

Hopefully that clarifies my point. Soviet era subjects did not have such distractions from reality.

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