REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Neither "repeal and replace" nor straight "repeal"

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, July 28, 2017 09:48
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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


GOP is wriggling on the hook of its own (fundamentally unpopular) ideology.

The DNC has the chance to speak to the public directly and explain its own plan.

What next?

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:41 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What next?

The politics of casual disregard for the people’s welfare was brought to a new level. Trump has a new health care plan — rather than try to improve the situation, he said he will make their health care situation as bad as possible and blame Democrats for the outcome.

Trump said his plan was now "to let Obamacare fail, it will be a lot easier. And I think we're probably in that position where we'll let Obamacare fail. We're not going to own it. I'm not going to own it. I can tell you the Republicans are not going to own it. We'll let Obamacare fail and then the Democrats are going to come to us."

The fact that this is Trump’s instinct underscores that from health care to Russian hacking to corruption, the signature theme of Trump’s approach to politics is putting Donald Trump’s interests ahead of anyone else’s.

www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/07/18/trump-says-republicans-shou
ld-let-obamacare-fail/TXPUCAfRYFNhVBenD1fF7K/story.html


The president certainly does have some fairly broad discretionary authority that he and his health and human services secretary can use to deliberately sabotage the program if they want to. Normally programs aren’t designed with this possibility in mind, since it would be kind of crazy for a president to do this.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/1/15373372/obamacare-tennessee-
zero-insurers

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


First of all, SECOND, Trump has no skin in the healthcare game. It doesn't benefit him, personally, to let Obamacare fail. So he may be callous, but in that sense it's not personal gain that he's after.

****

So, what are the GOP's options? I saw that Trump was bellyaching about the filibuster. It's a Senate procedure that everybody hates, but also a Senate procedure under which both parties have taken shelter. Do you think getting rid of the filibuster is a viable option? I think not, but I don't know enough to be very knowledgeable about that.

And what are the Democrat's options? Congress (not Trump, he has nothing to do with this) COULD sabotage Obamacare by withholding funding under some budgetary authority, and watch insurance companies flee the program like the plague. Or, they could do nothing ... literally nothing .... and Obamacare might still implode anyway.

Who will be perceived as being at fault? If the GOP does nothing, and the DNC does nothing ... or says nothing ... and the insurances flee the program and there are literally no providers, I'll bet the insurance companies will get a lot of heat. But, we don't vote for them, so differentially, which party do you suppose will face the bigger shitstorm?




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 2:09 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
First of all, SECOND, Trump has no skin in the healthcare game. It doesn't benefit him, personally, to let Obamacare fail. So he may be callous, but in that sense it's not personal gain that he's after.

Trump promised to repeal Obamacare. Making it fail is to his advantage on the road to repealing it. He has been saying for years that Obamacare is about to explode. Forcing it explode is to his advantage. It proves Trump is far-sighted and wise, at least in his opinion, when it does fail.

Trump has given little reassurance to health plans that might be on the fence about entering Tennessee or other markets. His administration has waffled on whether it will continue funding key Obamacare payments. He has said he expects the marketplaces to “explode” on their own.

“Insurers are fleeing the marketplace because Obamacare is fundamentally flawed,” Health and Human Services spokesperson Alleigh Marré said in a statement. “As more Americans are presented with higher healthcare costs and fewer options for coverage, repealing and replacing the law remains the best option. Administrative action alone cannot fix the problems Obamacare created.”

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/1/15373372/obamacare-tennessee-
zero-insurers


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 2:12 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Nobody has to "make" it fail. Just let it run its course and it will fail on its own.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 2:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I agree, SIX.

SECOND, the Vox article that you linked to, detailing all of the failures of Obamacare in Tennessee .... those problems were inherent in Obamacare. They were there before the 2016 election, just look at the crucial dates in the article.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 2:37 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
GOP is wriggling on the hook of its own (fundamentally unpopular) ideology.

The DNC has the chance to speak to the public directly and explain its own plan.

What next?



The reps control congress so they have the most control and the most to loose. Dems have as much control over this as fans sitting in the stands booing a bad call.

Susan Collins has some good ideas. Tear it down, start over, have open hearings, work with Democrats (who have offered). McMitch probably doesn't want to do that because after "mitching" for 8 years about ObamaCare the Reps put him in the driver's seat and he popped the clutch and drove it into a ditch 3 times in a row. For Mitch to go to Dems he would be admitting catastrophic, humiliating defeat. I don't see that happening.

John Kasich has some good ideas too:

http://nyti.ms/2uwmOP6

Mostly in his practical, bi-partisanship approach, which will surely doom it.

==============================

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 3:08 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I agree, SIX.

SECOND, the Vox article that you linked to, detailing all of the failures of Obamacare in Tennessee .... those problems were inherent in Obamacare. They were there before the 2016 election, just look at the crucial dates in the article.

You read, but you do not understand. Huge swaths of Obamacare — notably Medicaid expansion but also the exchanges in blue states with high population density and a political establishment that wants to make them work (think Oregon or Massachusetts) — are definitely not failing. On the other side, Tennessee's residents cannot sign up for the law’s Medicaid expansion because the state does not participate in that program. Rural areas have always been the places where it’s hard to attract a competitive insurance market. The incentives to enter just aren’t that strong.

The Obama administration worked hard to recruit health insurers to sell to those areas. The Trump administration, however, stands aside and lets Obamacare run on autopilot, so it can explode on its own. The Tennessee marketplace ran into trouble because the state government, Republican controlled, gave healthy consumers lots of ways to avoid joining the marketplace — a perfect storm of state policy decisions that undermined the business case for insurers to sell Obamacare policies in the region.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND: There are states accepted the Medicaid expansion that are still in trouble. States where many counties are reduced to one insurer or no insurer:



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/09/us/counties-with-one-or
-no-obamacare-insurer.html



The states that seem to in trouble throughout most of their counties did NOT accept Medicaid expansion: Texas. Oklahoma, Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, NC, SC, Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri.

On the other hand, there are states that DID accept Medicaid expansion, and some (or many) of their counties are also in trouble: Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, Delaware, PA, Ohio, Iowa, West Virginia, Kentucky.

Medicaid helps, but not enough.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:41 PM

6STRINGJOKER


That's the problem with the "Elite" class....

You're missing the point. The cost of insuring all of those people that didn't have insurance before is massive year over year increases in the premiums while the deductible goes up as well.

The Republicans don't have to do anything. If they don't touch it, Obamacare will implode on its own when those that don't get subsidies jump ship and opt to pay the tax penalty instead.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:57 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND: There are states accepted the Medicaid expansion that are still in trouble. States where many counties are reduced to one insurer or no insurer:

The states that seem to in trouble throughout most of their counties did NOT accept Medicaid expansion: Texas. Oklahoma, Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, NC, SC, Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri.

On the other hand, there are states that DID accept Medicaid expansion, and some (or many) of their counties are also in trouble: Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, Delaware, PA, Ohio, Iowa, West Virginia, Kentucky.

Medicaid helps, but not enough.

Did you notice that most of the trouble is in states controlled by Republicans? Place most of the blame on . . . Republicans! A little blame can be attached to "democrats" like Joe Lieberman, who would fit in very nicely with the Republican party. It would have been so much better if Democrats could have spent MORE money on Obamacare, but in order to get the votes of the MOST conservative Democrats in the Senate, they had to spend LESS money. They were hoping to increase the money later, if the original guesstimate turned out to be too little, but Republicans turned later into never.

The horror movie villain of Republican health care reform has been killed and thrown into the summer camp lake, and we’re all sitting on the beach terrified that the undead body will simply walk right back out. In the meantime, Democrats have to think about whether their health care goals will build on the ACA framework or whether they should more aggressively extend Medicare for more people. This points to a internal party disagreement. Should the Democratic Party focus on the poorest without health care, in the language of access and need? Or should it focus on everyone, Medicare for All, in the language of rights? Some Democrats say one way, some say the other, while Republicans do as they damn well please. Democrats, being the minority, need to be of one mind on this or else their situation will stay hopeless.

www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/7/18/15992226/neoliberalism-chait-auster
ity-democratic-party-sanders-clinton

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I get that the trajectory of Obamacare is in the wrong direction.

But if it implodes ... what then? Or should Congress move itself to fix the problem BEFORE it becomes catastrophic?

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:14 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I get that the trajectory of Obamacare is in the wrong direction.

But if it implodes ... what then? Or should Congress move itself to fix the problem BEFORE it becomes catastrophic?

It is up to the Republicans. Democrats are helpless in this situation. In a room full of Democrats, with enough patience you'll discover that every one of them has two opinions on every subject, while Republicans have only one subject and one opinion: they hate Democrats. Democrats don't do well in such an environment when they pull in all directions while Republicans pull in one.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 7:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


G, I read the Kasich article. I'm sure (or at least I hope) that he has more specifics to offer, but as written the article is uninterpretable into policy.

For example ...

EXCHANGES
Quote:

"Congress should first focus on fixing the Obamacare exchanges before it takes on Medicaid. If we want to move Americans off Medicaid, there must be somewhere stable for them to go."
IF we want people off Medicaid is a question yet to be answered, but assuming that's the case, I agree: There must be someplace stable for them to go.

So, what's wrong with the exchanges? Fundamentally, insurers are removing themselves from the markets because they're not making enough of a profit, or are even losing money. Is that because the service providers are gouging the insurances? Is that because of internal inefficiencies within the insurances? Or is it just because the people being insured are just really a lot sicker than anticipated?

Quote:

"One vital improvement would be to provide adequate tax credits"

Anything depending on tax credits assumes that the subject family is paying enough taxes to get enough tax credits to make a difference. And how much would that be? Given health insurance costs for MY family, that would have to be $36,000. Also, in reality, this is a TAX CUT .... does Kasich plan on increasing the deficit, or making up tax revenues elsewhere?

MEDICAID
Quote:

"States are willing to assume greater financial risk by transitioning to a block grant or per-capita cap, but will also need new flexibilities, such as tools to manage the rising cost of pharmaceuticals — the fastest growing component of Medicaid."
I agree. States should be allowed to bargain for Rx costs. One way they can do this is to set the accepted price the same as the VA. That way, states aren't bargaining against each other.

Quote:

"And states cannot expect the federal government to continue paying 90 percent of Medicaid expansion costs given our nation’s historic debt; they must accept a gradual return to traditional cost-sharing levels."

50:50. But given the debt load of the states, and the pension time-bomb that awaits them, will states be able to fund "their" share of Medicaid? Or is this tasking them with something that is beyond them?

Quote:

"Finally, we can never truly fix the rising cost of health care unless we start paying for value rather than volume. We are making this transition in Ohio by paying physicians for providing better care, not simply more care, in order to pursue better health outcomes."

People have been saying this for a long time, even with respect to Medicare, but I have no idea on how you improve "quality" or measure outcomes in any meaningful way. He says Ohio is doing this already. I'd really like to see the specifics.

The problem with Obamacare is that it didn't "pencil out", so questions of sustainable funding and cost control are not trivial.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:29 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
G, I read the Kasich article. I'm sure (or at least I hope) that he has more specifics to offer, but as written the article is uninterpretable into policy.



Glad you read it. I think it's important to think of it as an article, and not policy. In fact, imho that's the problem with what the Republicans have been doing so far and why they have failed so completely: the way to create a better Health Care solution ISN'T with POLICY. Mitch & Co. have only been thinking about what suits Rep Policy and that doesn't suit real live American situations. Forget Policy - too Political.

Kasich's article wasn't written to be grafted onto the constitution - geez. It was a starting point, a way to build some kind of initial consensus that gets the conversation started and invites a number voices to the help draft the first, next solution to what ObamaCare started (Health Care for all Americans). He has said that before people can reach a solution they have to agree on the problems... in detail, and not a bunch of partisan sound bytes. So, get experts from the various agencies involved and identify the problems and work toward solutions. He cited instances where he had done that on certain bills in the past with people from the opposite side of the aisle. It's logical, it's Intelligent, it makes sense.

ETA: I am in agreement with everything I've heard B. Sanders say about this issue so far.

==============================

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, you know what they say- god (or the devil) is in the details.

But I think I would have to go back one step in Kasich's suggestion: He is clearly committed to the "private markets". Most developed nations don't have private health insurance markets, and they (usually) do pretty well. Except the UK, which has been habitually underfunding its National Health Service for decades. (THANKS, Conservative Party!)

So just for the sake of completeness, I'd certainly try to run down a few bunny-trails of If we commit to a nationalized or single-payer health service, how do we pay for it? And how do we ENSURE that it stays on-track because, I've got to say, our national political process is NOT a good model for problem solving.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:04 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, you know what they say- god (or the devil) is in the details.

So just for the sake of completeness, I'd certainly try to run down a few bunny-trails of If we commit to a nationalized or single-payer health service, how do we pay for it? And how do we ENSURE that it stays on-track because, I've got to say, our national political process is NOT a good model for problem solving.

A history of why the US is the only rich country without universal health care

https://qz.com/1022831

Despite the evidence that a single-payer system would be a more efficient and cheaper choice, introducing it in the US is not a serious option. Trying to dismantle the current system would be a mammoth task. For one thing, it would cost a great many jobs: Health- and life-insurance companies employ some 800,000 people, with yet more employed by the medical industry just to deal with insurance companies. Though the savings from eliminating them could be invested in retraining those people for other professions, it would be difficult for any party to convince voters that it’s a necessary step.

And with a market worth more than $3 trillion, drug firms, medical providers, and health technology companies have an incentive to maintain a system that lets them set prices instead of negotiating with a single government payer. Both the GOP and the Democratic party are under the influence of the medical-industrial complex: In 2016, hospitals and nursing homes contributed over $95 million to electoral campaigns in the US, and the pharmaceutical sector gave nearly $250 million.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump is mad Democrats didn’t work with him on health care, but he never tried
by Matthew Yglesias

Back in 2014, seven Democratic senators introduced a bill to modify the Affordable Care Act by allowing state-run exchanges to feature high-deductible, low-premium “copper” plans that they thought would be attractive to uninsured people whose incomes were too high to let them qualify for much if anything in the way of ACA subsidies. It wasn’t a panacea by any means, but it probably would have helped some people, and it would have done so in a way that accorded with the conservative criticism that the ACA was overly prescriptive about how generous insurance needed to be — pushing premiums unnecessarily high and forcing unsubsidized customers out of the market.

Two of those seven senators lost their seats in the 2014 midterms but the other five are still all in the Senate today. And to the best of anyone’s knowledge, none of them were brought into the White House for any meetings with the president or anyone on his staff during the current health care debate.

That, despite Trump’s whining about having been “let down by all of the Democrats,” is the simple explanation for why Trump was unable to obtain any measure of bipartisan support for his health care initiative. He never tried.

Republicans never tried to write a bipartisan bill

And of course it wasn’t just Trump. Nobody in Senate Republican leadership met with the Copper Five — Mark Warner, Heidi Heitkamp, Tim Kaine, Angus King, and Joe Manchin — either. Nor were other electorally vulnerable Democrats like Joe Donnelly or Claire McCaskill — who must have been fairly desperate to find an issue or two on which they could say they were working with the Trump administration — invited to participate in any way.

When Mitch McConnell formed his working group on health care legislation, it was — despite his pious complaint on the House floor that Democrats “did not want to engage with us seriously” — a one-party affair. And he seems to have mostly ignored even that group in favor of a tightly held, leadership-driven process. Trump, meanwhile, has shown zero interest in any of the specific aspects of health care legislation. But despite this, he’s also shown zero interest in bipartisan dealmaking — simply outsourcing all the work to McConnell and Paul Ryan, who’ve proceeded in a hyperpartisan manner that fits their role as party caucus leaders rather than broad stakeholders of the national interest.

And yet the Trump administration, absurdly, has decided to cast Democrats as the reason the GOP can’t make the math work on a repeal bill.

More details at www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/19/15992350/trump-democrats-oba
macare


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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 5:43 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What next?

The politics of casual disregard for the people’s welfare was brought to a new level. Trump has a new health care plan — rather than try to improve the situation, he said he will make their health care situation as bad as possible and blame Democrats for the outcome.

Trump said his plan was now "to let Obamacare fail, it will be a lot easier. And I think we're probably in that position where we'll let Obamacare fail. We're not going to own it. I'm not going to own it. I can tell you the Republicans are not going to own it. We'll let Obamacare fail and then the Democrats are going to come to us."

The fact that this is Trump’s instinct underscores that from health care to Russian hacking to corruption, the signature theme of Trump’s approach to politics is putting Donald Trump’s interests ahead of anyone else’s.

www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/07/18/trump-says-republicans-shou
ld-let-obamacare-fail/TXPUCAfRYFNhVBenD1fF7K/story.html


The president certainly does have some fairly broad discretionary authority that he and his health and human services secretary can use to deliberately sabotage the program if they want to. Normally programs aren’t designed with this possibility in mind, since it would be kind of crazy for a president to do this.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/1/15373372/obamacare-tennessee-
zero-insurers

It's just what narcissists do.

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Well, you know what they say- god (or the devil) is in the details.

So just for the sake of completeness, I'd certainly try to run down a few bunny-trails of If we commit to a nationalized or single-payer health service, how do we pay for it? And how do we ENSURE that it stays on-track because, I've got to say, our national political process is NOT a good model for problem solving. - SIGNY



SECOND:
Quote:

A history of why the US is the only rich country without universal health care
https://qz.com/1022831

Despite the evidence that a single-payer system would be a more efficient and cheaper choice, introducing it in the US is not a serious option. Trying to dismantle the current system would be a mammoth task. For one thing, it would cost a great many jobs: Health- and life-insurance companies employ some 800,000 people, with yet more employed by the medical industry just to deal with insurance companies. Though the savings from eliminating them could be invested in retraining those people for other professions, it would be difficult for any party to convince voters that it’s a necessary step.

Is anyone seriously trying to say that "jobs" is the reason why we didn't shift to single-payer when Hillary proposed a health care overhaul? Or that "jobs" was the consideration when Obamacare was crafted? Hell, administrations haven't shown any hesitation about "jobs" when signing free-trade agreements, who should they start with health care?

Quote:

Quote:

And with a market worth more than $3 trillion, drug firms, medical providers, and health technology companies have an incentive to maintain a system that lets them set prices instead of negotiating with a single government payer. Both the GOP and the Democratic party are under the influence of the medical-industrial complex: In 2016, hospitals and nursing homes contributed over $95 million to electoral campaigns in the US, and the pharmaceutical sector gave nearly $250 million.

And when Hillary proposed her healthcare overhaul, it was met with a barrage of negative "Harry and Louise" commercials?

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/29/us/health-care-debate-what-went-wron
g-health-care-campaign-collapsed-special-report.html


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:38 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump has been submissive to the congressional GOP’s health care agenda. He threw his weight behind Paul Ryan’s American Health Care Act, calling it “incredibly well crafted” and holding a Rose Garden celebration after it cleared the chamber. Trumpworld is all in on Mitch McConnell’s Better Care Reconciliation Act.

Both bills reflect longtime Republican health policy thinking and break Trump’s promises. They cover fewer people than are covered now with worse health care that carries higher deductibles. They feature massive cuts to Medicaid. And Trump has meekly fallen in line. The insurgent campaigner who relished confrontation with the congressional GOP during the election has been surprisingly low-energy in pushing his own agenda.

What is true on health care is true elsewhere in Trump’s presidency. His budget was lifted from the Heritage Foundation’s wish list and broke his promise to protect Social Security. His “infrastructure week” came and went without a plan. His outline for tax reform reflected traditional conservative ideas about how to cut taxes for the rich and abandoned his populist promise to raise rates on billionaires like himself. His wall between the US and Mexico remains unfunded on both sides. His foreign policy has, in most cases, reflected the consensus that preceded him. Virtually the only distinct elements of Trumpism that exists today are a hostility to immigrants and the travel ban, which is now a temporary half-policy that the Supreme Court could still strike down.

Trumpism’s biggest problem, by far, is that its namesake doesn’t believe in it. Trump delivers his policy pronouncements with confidence and brio, so it’s easy to assume he’s committed to them. But the force he brings to salesmanship obscures the diffidence he brings to governance.

The idea that Trump had a stable set of intuitions that could then be translated into a set of principles that could then be translated into a set of policies was wrong. People made a lot of some things Trump said during the campaign, but it seems he didn’t have a worldview in that way. He just gets pushed and pulled in different directions.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/28/15876300/how-trumpism-died

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, July 20, 2017 6:17 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


The GOP is so scared to fail that they will offer up anything that looks like they are doing something, just so that their constituents won't notice that they are sitting with their thumb up their ass, counting the days until Summer Recess.

But people across the country have shown that, despite the notion that they are complacent and dumb, they are making their feelings about healthcare known to their
representatives. It could be called WTFUCare and the GOP would still try to find some way to appease their masters - the rich.

Meanwhile The Donald wants to get recognized for his enormous ego and only wants to destroy the ACA to see his name up in lights; much like his shit for nothing buildings. The GOP has had more than 7 years to come up with a solid plan, but here we are, after 60 votes in recent years and countless hours trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat, still fucking around with the lives of millions of people.

Repeal or replace - give me a break. To appease 20-25% of the country they are willing to sacrifice the rest of us and for what exactly? Who benefits from the LFTITA-Care or whatever they call it. Anything to show up Obama and fuck the majority of the country without so much as a "woopsie daisie." And a straight repeal without a plan is just plain STUPID. This is what we are paying them for?
I want my money back in that case!

Universal Health Care is the answer, but I know that will never happen. Not as long as we have these half-assed politicians in Washington. Drain the Swamp, are you fucking kidding me? It's more like Fuck the Country. The richest country on the planet and we got Bupkis! Third World countries have better systems in place. It's fucking embarrassing.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
GOP is wriggling on the hook of its own (fundamentally unpopular) ideology.

The DNC has the chance to speak to the public directly and explain its own plan.

What next?


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Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

Universal Health Care is the answer, but I know that will never happen. Not as long as we have these half-assed politicians in Washington. Drain the Swamp, are you fucking kidding me? It's more like Fuck the Country. The richest country on the planet and we got Bupkis! Third World countries have better systems in place. It's fucking embarrassing.

SGG

A President got us into this mess: Nixon. The GOP keeps us there ever since.

Max Fine is intimately familiar with Medicare — because he helped create it. Fine is the last surviving member of President Kennedy’s Medicare Task Force, and he was also President Johnson’s designated debunker against the health insurance industry.

Fine, now 91, wrote to The Intercept recently to explain that Medicare was never intended to cover only the elderly population, and that expanding it to everyone was a goal that its architects long campaigned for.

“Three years after the enactment of Medicare, in Dec. 1968, a Committee of 100 leading Americans was formed to campaign for single payer National Heath Insurance. The campaign leaders were UAW pres. Walter Reuther, Dr. Michael DeBakey, Nat. Urban League Pres Whitney Young and Mary Lasker, a leader in the formation and funding of NIH,” he wrote.

“The NY Times and other newspapers gave front page play to the announcement of the campaign for ‘Medicare for All’ but the Committee gained even more attention when, shortly before Xmas, pres-elect Nixon, emerging from his doctor’s office in San Diego, denounced us as socialists who were trying to create a problem when none existed.”

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/trumpcare-is-dead-single-payer-is-
the-only-real-answer-says-medicare-architect
/

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Thursday, July 20, 2017 8:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Trump has been submissive to the congressional GOP’s health care agenda.= SECOND
Trump is running government like a business executive runs a business: He lets the military run its military operations, and the GOP Congress run domestic operations. He also expects results. This is a shock to DC and the Pentagon, who expect to spin their excuses and confabulations endlessly while nestling cosily in the bosom of a political party.

For YEARS the GOP has been bellyaching about Obamacare. Now, the responsibility is in their hands ... and they bobbled it. What have they been doing the past seven years, besides complaining? Nothing, apparently. No preparation, no plan.

Quote:

A President got us into this mess: Nixon. The GOP keeps us there ever since.

Quote:

Max Fine is intimately familiar with Medicare — because he helped create it. Fine is the last surviving member of President Kennedy’s Medicare Task Force, and he was also President Johnson’s designated debunker against the health insurance industry.

Fine, now 91, wrote to The Intercept recently to explain that Medicare was never intended to cover only the elderly population, and that expanding it to everyone was a goal that its architects long campaigned for.

“Three years after the enactment of Medicare, in Dec. 1968, a Committee of 100 leading Americans was formed to campaign for single payer National Heath Insurance. The campaign leaders were UAW pres. Walter Reuther, Dr. Michael DeBakey, Nat. Urban League Pres Whitney Young and Mary Lasker, a leader in the formation and funding of NIH,” he wrote.

“The NY Times and other newspapers gave front page play to the announcement of the campaign for ‘Medicare for All’ but the Committee gained even more attention when, shortly before Xmas, pres-elect Nixon, emerging from his doctor’s office in San Diego, denounced us as socialists who were trying to create a problem when none existed.”

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/trumpcare-is-dead-single-payer-is-
the-only-real-answer-says-medicare-architect
/ - SHINY



And I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the DNC does not one whit better than the GOP. Oh, they'll complain endlessly about the GOP to score political points, but will they come up with a plan??? DOUBTFUL.

But, hey SHINY! If the Dems come up with a plan that could ACTUALLY WORK, let me know!

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, July 20, 2017 8:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Trump is running government like a business executive runs a business: He lets the military run its military operations, and the GOP Congress run domestic operations. He also expects results. This is a shock to DC and the Pentagon, who expect to spin their excuses and confabulations endlessly while nestling cozily in the bosom of a political party.

Sorry to tell you, Signym, but what Trump does is nothing similar to a CEO competently delegating. Trump does not know enough to know when a task has been done properly. He is a total bystander, a man on the street, someone driving by at 60 MPH on the highway, watching a huge petrochemical construction project along the Houston ship channel that he does not even comprehend what it makes, let alone know the difference between a distillation column and a reactor. It's all just tall metal vessels to him. For example:

Trump Still Confused About Life Insurance vs. Health Insurance

This is hardly the most important part of Trump’s interview with the New York Times, but still:

“So pre-existing conditions are a tough deal. Because you are basically saying from the moment the insurance, you’re 21 years old, you start working and you’re paying $12 a year for insurance, and by the time you’re 70, you get a nice plan. Here’s something where you walk up and say, “I want my insurance.” It’s a very tough deal, but it is something that we’re doing a good job of.”

Trump doesn’t know the difference between health insurance and life insurance. And yet, he says the senators he met with at lunch “couldn’t believe it, how much I know about it. I know a lot about health care.” Uh huh.

www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/trump-interview-transcript.html

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Thursday, July 20, 2017 8:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND: I see YOU continue the DNC policy of endless bellyaching about Trump. But yanno, it doesn't matter. It will be no more successful, in the end, than the GOP's policy of endless bellyaching about Obama.

Keep at it. You'll never see the cliff.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, July 20, 2017 8:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND: I see YOU continue the DNC policy of endless bellyaching about Trump. But yanno, it doesn't matter. It will be no more successful, in the end, than the GOP's policy of endless bellyaching about Obama.

Keep at it. You'll never see the cliff.

It is not bellyaching. Since the days of Richard Nixon, the GOP has prevented Medicare from being expanded to more people. The GOP will continue to be a roadblock until there are temporarily only 35 Republicans in the Senate, as there were back when Kennedy was President and Medicare first passed. Medicare did not cover anyone younger than 65 when it passed only because Democratic Senators from the South had objections -- senators who eventually switched parties to become Republicans.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, July 20, 2017 10:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It is not bellyaching.- SECOND
HAHAHAHA! THIS, from the self-admitted anti-GOP bellyacher of the board!


Yes. It. Is.

SECOND, up until about the third year of Obama's first term, I was defending Democrats. Not the party as a whole, but individual Democrats. In my view, there are generally more "good" Democrats than Republicans in Congress ... maybe a double handful of Democrats versus a less-than-handful of Republicans.

But the party AS A WHOLE has not changed the trajectory of our economic policy, wealth inequality, or warlike-interventionist foreign policy one hair's breadth. The rich - still got richer at the same rate! Governments- still being toppled around the world, even faster than before! Jobs- still being exported!

Name one policy that wasn't instituted without Obama's lips firmly implanted on the elite's collective butt. I'll bet you can't. That whole "gender equality" thing? It was the least Obama could do. Literally. The least. It didn't cost the rich one fucking dime.

I voted for Jill Stein instead of Obama the second time around. But the DNC's coronation of Hillary - that corrupt, lying, warmongering, globalist bitch - took the party to a new stomach-churning low. That's when the DNC threw in the towel on even PRETENDING to be "for the people" and just went full-bore sociopathic. And the subsequent focus on the made-up issue of "Russia!" just proves how morally bankrupt the DNC is.

Going back to the nautical analogy, SECOND, what YOU lack is a reference to reality. There are REAL problems that the Dems have not solved, and for which they have not even proposed or supported a real resolution. IF the Dems ever get back to being "for the people" THEN they will be worthy of support, but they've been numerically, statistically just as bad as the GOP since at least Bill (who I voted for the first time, but not the second. Just like Obama, who was just as big a traitor to the "American middle class".)

Reality, SECOND. Get to know it.


By the way, it was Nixon who started the EPA, so put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 4:03 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Funny, I thought that the ACA WAS the law of the land. Now that it's "our" turn to do some bellyaching, this after the kings of bellyaching cornered the market, now we get the Grand Poobah of bellyaching:

Now, you say the Dems are doing it too much. Really!? That's rich! Oh, and by the way, it's more than apparent that the GOP never had any plan whatsoever to "repeal and replace." It's a fact. McConnell is bending over backwards to come up with a "plan" - what a fucking joke. I scoff at their puny half-baked "plan." It's just more lip service to appease their base and nothing more. Meanwhile they succeeded in one thing, making the market unstable. Hospitals in rural areas are closing down, and insurance companies are folding their tents. Way to go you fucking slobs.
I think the wrong person got cancer, it should have been McConnell, the lying scumbag.

Give 'em Hell John McCain, show 'em who's boss!

McConnell concocted a hodgepodge of ridiculous and destructive policy changes merely to say that the GOP came up with something. What a fucking nightmare!
Neither he nor the Orange One haven't a clue. Stall is the name of the game, stall until 2018. Fucking morons. The GOP would rather fuck people over than actually devise a plan beneficial to the American people; rather than sit with Dems and punch out a solution that would actually make sense for the majority of Americans.
How many times did they attempt to repeal since the ACA became law? 60, 70, 100 times....and yet, here we are. 7 years and nothing, now suddenly it's become the hot potato in Washington. And whatever happened to drain the swamp? Seems to me Trump & Company have created a new moat. Where is the Mother of Dragons when you need her?

These Americans Hated the health Law. Until the Idea of Repeal Sank In.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/these-americans-hated-the-health-law-
until-the-idea-of-repeal-sank-in/ar-AAowH2W?li=AA4ZnC&ocid=spartandhp



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Trump has been submissive to the congressional GOP’s health care agenda.= SECOND
Trump is running government like a business executive runs a business: He lets the military run its military operations, and the GOP Congress run domestic operations. He also expects results. This is a shock to DC and the Pentagon, who expect to spin their excuses and confabulations endlessly while nestling cosily in the bosom of a political party.

For YEARS the GOP has been bellyaching about Obamacare. Now, the responsibility is in their hands ... and they bobbled it. What have they been doing the past seven years, besides complaining? Nothing, apparently. No preparation, no plan.

Quote:

A President got us into this mess: Nixon. The GOP keeps us there ever since.

Quote:

Max Fine is intimately familiar with Medicare — because he helped create it. Fine is the last surviving member of President Kennedy’s Medicare Task Force, and he was also President Johnson’s designated debunker against the health insurance industry.

Fine, now 91, wrote to The Intercept recently to explain that Medicare was never intended to cover only the elderly population, and that expanding it to everyone was a goal that its architects long campaigned for.

“Three years after the enactment of Medicare, in Dec. 1968, a Committee of 100 leading Americans was formed to campaign for single payer National Heath Insurance. The campaign leaders were UAW pres. Walter Reuther, Dr. Michael DeBakey, Nat. Urban League Pres Whitney Young and Mary Lasker, a leader in the formation and funding of NIH,” he wrote.

“The NY Times and other newspapers gave front page play to the announcement of the campaign for ‘Medicare for All’ but the Committee gained even more attention when, shortly before Xmas, pres-elect Nixon, emerging from his doctor’s office in San Diego, denounced us as socialists who were trying to create a problem when none existed.”

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/trumpcare-is-dead-single-payer-is-
the-only-real-answer-says-medicare-architect
/ - SHINY



And I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the DNC does not one whit better than the GOP. Oh, they'll complain endlessly about the GOP to score political points, but will they come up with a plan??? DOUBTFUL.

But, hey SHINY! If the Dems come up with a plan that could ACTUALLY WORK, let me know!

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one



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Friday, July 21, 2017 4:10 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I say, Let It Implode! Let's call the president's bluff. Congress ain't going to do shit. They will never ever actually "fix" things no matter what. Not as long as the fucking GOP are in charge.

Fucking morons have the upper hand in 3 out of 3 branches of government, The Donald has decimated the State Dept. and they still can't do a fucking thing. They are gutless and clueless. The ACA will live forever, fuck Trump.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I get that the trajectory of Obamacare is in the wrong direction.

But if it implodes ... what then? Or should Congress move itself to fix the problem BEFORE it becomes catastrophic?

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one



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Friday, July 21, 2017 5:14 AM

6STRINGJOKER


We're past 8 months now of severe bellyaching from the left. It's quite pathetic actually.

The ACA will die with or without the Republicans killing it. They just have to sit back and let the premiums continue to increase 30% every year until the middle class would opt to go without insurance and pay the tax penalty because it's too expensive to purchase.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 10:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
We're past 8 months now of severe bellyaching from the left. It's quite pathetic actually.

The ACA will die with or without the Republicans killing it. They just have to sit back and let the premiums continue to increase 30% every year until the middle class would opt to go without insurance and pay the tax penalty because it's too expensive to purchase.

6stringJoker, if I was 63 years old I could be paying $1,000 per month to Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas or at 65 years old I could pay a total of $200 per month to Medicare Part A, B and D and UnitedHealthCare for supplemental insurance. Which is the better deal? Keep in mind that Blue Cross will want $1300 per month when I'm 64 because I am a worse risk than at 63. Medicare does not raise my rates just because I grow older and riskier.

It would be smart for the Republicans to run Blue Cross Blue Shield out of the business and let Medicare take over all health care costs. Of course, employer provided insurance would become extinct and the tax deduction for that insurance would also become extinct. The money that once went to pay those two extinct costs are how you pay for Medicare for All.

www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2016/02/17/how-a-sanders-medicare-for-a
ll-plan-can-be-affordable-and-appeal-to-republicans


https://health.purpleplans.org/

President Kennedy said, "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

Were he with us today, he would not sit silent while Washington continues to do too little too late.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 1:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I tried to respond to this before, but my bytes got lost in the ether.

Quote:

. Despite the evidence that a single-payer system would be a more efficient and cheaper choice, introducing it in the US is not a serious option. Trying to dismantle the current system would be a mammoth task. For one thing, it would cost a great many jobs: Health- and life-insurance companies employ some 800,000 people, with yet more employed by the medical industry just to deal with insurance companies. Though the savings from eliminating them could be invested in retraining those people for other professions, it would be difficult for any party to convince voters that it’s a necessary step.
REALLY??? Does anyone seriously believe that "jobs" was anywhere in the discussion about healthcare? Because THAT consideration was nowhere in sight when Bill signed a special trade agreement with China, or pushed NAFTA and CAFTA!

Quote:

And with a market worth more than $3 trillion, drug firms, medical providers, and health technology companies have an incentive to maintain a system that lets them set prices instead of negotiating with a single government payer. Both the GOP and the Democratic party are under the influence of the medical-industrial complex: In 2016, hospitals and nursing homes contributed over $95 million to electoral campaigns in the US, and the pharmaceutical sector gave nearly $250 million.
Oh, it's not just the winnowing effect that donations have on who gets elected, it's the power to brutally crush any proposal thru negative advertising. Surely you remember the Harry and Louise adverts when Hillary had her first go-around with with health care reform, when the Clinton government wanted to force everyone into HMO-style private coverage?






-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 2:46 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Signym, your explanation is long-winded bullshit. When the Democrats had control of Congress in 2009, Joe Lieberman killed Medicare For All all by himself. Joe has since been interviewed to become Trump’s next head of the FBI. He didn’t get the job, but you know where Joe’s heart is. And all the Republicans, all the time, have called Medicare For All to be communism. Joe and the Republicans made the World we live in with their constant “NO!” votes for any improvement. It is not a secret. It’s out in the open what they do and why they do it. When you vote for those guys, that is what you get: NO! votes. If there was fewer than 41 Republican Senators and Joe Lieberman types, there would be a chance for change. If 41 or more there is no chance.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/10/did_lie
berman_just_kill_the_public_option.html



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, July 21, 2017 2:51 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Signym, your explanation is long-winded bullshit. When the Democrats had control of Congress in 2009, Joe Lieberman killed Medicare For All all by himself. Joe has since been interviewed to become Trump’s next head of the FBI. He didn’t get the job, but you know where Joe’s heart is. And all the Republicans, all the time, have called Medicare For All to be communism. Joe and the Republicans made the World we live in with their constant “NO!” votes for any improvement. It is not a secret. It’s out in the open what they do and why they do it. When you vote for those guys, that is what you get: NO! votes. If there was fewer than 41 Republican Senators and Joe Lieberman types, there would be a chance for change. If 41 or more there is no chance.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/10/did_lie
berman_just_kill_the_public_option.html



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Her endless "Bill, Hillary, Obama" deflections. Her other posts today are the same.

She's an obedient little stooge.

==============================

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Friday, July 21, 2017 5:07 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
We're past 8 months now of severe bellyaching from the left. It's quite pathetic actually.

The ACA will die with or without the Republicans killing it. They just have to sit back and let the premiums continue to increase 30% every year until the middle class would opt to go without insurance and pay the tax penalty because it's too expensive to purchase.

6stringJoker, if I was 63 years old I could be paying $1,000 per month to Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas or at 65 years old I could pay a total of $200 per month to Medicare Part A, B and D and UnitedHealthCare for supplemental insurance. Which is the better deal? Keep in mind that Blue Cross will want $1300 per month when I'm 64 because I am a worse risk than at 63. Medicare does not raise my rates just because I grow older and riskier.

It would be smart for the Republicans to run Blue Cross Blue Shield out of the business and let Medicare take over all health care costs. Of course, employer provided insurance would become extinct and the tax deduction for that insurance would also become extinct. The money that once went to pay those two extinct costs are how you pay for Medicare for All.

www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2016/02/17/how-a-sanders-medicare-for-a
ll-plan-can-be-affordable-and-appeal-to-republicans


https://health.purpleplans.org/

President Kennedy said, "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

Were he with us today, he would not sit silent while Washington continues to do too little too late.



Obamacare is not Medicare for All. I'm talking about the death of Obamacare bringing itself about.

I wish Kennedy were around today too. He got killed because he actually gave a shit, unlike any president in my lifetime.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 6:50 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Obamacare is not Medicare for All. I'm talking about the death of Obamacare bringing itself about.

I wish Kennedy were around today too. He got killed because he actually gave a shit, unlike any president in my lifetime.

Kennedy got killed because he insisted on riding with the top down rather than listen to the Secret Service who wanted the top up on the limo. It was Texas, Kennedy was hated by Texans because he was a Democrat, he was begging to be shot dead. And so it happened.

My point was that Medicare for All would be cheaper than Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas. We ended up with Obamacare rather than getting closer to Medicare for All because of Senator Joe Lieberman, who would later endorse Republican John McCain and more recently be interviewed by Trump for FBI head. Lieberman screwed the Democrats, his former political party. Half a loaf is better than none and Obamacare was the half-ass loaf that could be passed over the opposition of every fucking Republican and despite Lieberman sabotaging it. He was the absolutely necessary 60th Senator who broke the Republican plan to filibuster Obamacare.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/10/did_lie
berman_just_kill_the_public_option.html

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

My point was that Medicare for All would be cheaper than Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas. We ended up with Obamacare rather than getting closer to Medicare for All because of Senator Joe Lieberman ...- SECOND
Ahem! May I politely say... "Baloney!"?

Because of our daughter's birth accident ... and probably unlike you ... I was actually paying VERY close attention to how this all came about and who killed single payer/ public option; while it was in process. I'm sure that Lieberman ... the Senator from the Insurance State ... would probably like to brag about his outsized role in representing the insurance companies that HQ'd in his state at the time, but no small amount of credit for killing public option goes to Max Baucus and Obama himself.

Quote:

... But with Obama’s blessing, the Senate, through its Finance Committee, took a different tack, and became the fulcrum for a potential grand bargain on health reform. Chairman Max Baucus, in the spring of 2009, signaled his desire to find a bipartisan compromise, working especially closely with Grassley, his dear friend and Republican counterpart, who had been deeply involved in crafting the Republican alternative to Clintoncare. Baucus and Grassley convened an informal group of three Democrats and three Republicans on the committee, which became known as the “Gang of Six.” They covered the parties’ ideological bases; the other GOPers were conservative Mike Enzi of Wyoming and moderate Olympia Snowe of Maine, and the Democrats were liberal Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico and moderate Kent Conrad of North Dakota.

Baucus very deliberately started the talks with a template that was the core of the 1993-4 Republican plan, built around an individual mandate and exchanges with private insurers — much to the chagrin of many Democrats and liberals who wanted, if not a single-payer system, at least one with a public insurance option ...

Obama could have moved earlier to blow the whistle on the faux negotiations; he did not, as he held out hope that a plan that was fundamentally built on Republican ideas would still, in the end, garner at least some Republican support ...

.... when the crucial votes came in the Senate, in late December 2009, Harry Reid succeeded in the near-impossible feat of getting all 60 Democrats, from Socialist Bernie Sanders and liberal Barbara Boxer to conservatives Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, Mark Pryor, and Blanche Lincoln, to vote for cloture, to end the Republican filibuster, and to pass their version of the bill.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/the-real-story-of
-obamacares-birth/397742
/

So the Democrats had 60 votes, they COULD have passed a different version of the bill.

Early on, altho Obama had taken "single payer" off the table, the public option was still on ...



But later on, backed off of it ...



Towards the end of his term, he flip-flopped again.



People blame the Democrat's constant caving in to "Republicans" as the reason for their incredibly weak stand on healthcare reform, but I think the reality is that Dems are minding their donations as much as anything. Did you know that Hillary made more fees speaking to big pharma than speaking to bankers? But "GOP" sure makes a good excuse, no?

That way, the GOP gets props from their constituents for sticking to their ideological guns, the Dems get to keep their insurance and pharma donors happy while keep their constituents in-tow, and everyone in DC does just fine.

Oh, did that sound too cynical?


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 9:09 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Deflect, deflect, deflect. That is, as you know, the new mantra of our dear friends who either worship orange people or people from foreign countries at the expense of our values and way of life.

I know, that was a bit long-winded, but you know what I mean.

But things are getting interesting in Washington, and I don't mean the "draining of the swamp" because that's going well (wink, wink).

Bill, Hillary and Obama are not in office right now, so stop it. At the risk of repeating myself, allow me to be clear, the republicans have the majority in government - so.....What The Fuck!

"Y'all been leading long enough, stop being greedy, keep it real partner, give to the needy" - DMX

Woof, woof.....where my dogs at!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Signym, your explanation is long-winded bullshit. When the Democrats had control of Congress in 2009, Joe Lieberman killed Medicare For All all by himself. Joe has since been interviewed to become Trump’s next head of the FBI. He didn’t get the job, but you know where Joe’s heart is. And all the Republicans, all the time, have called Medicare For All to be communism. Joe and the Republicans made the World we live in with their constant “NO!” votes for any improvement. It is not a secret. It’s out in the open what they do and why they do it. When you vote for those guys, that is what you get: NO! votes. If there was fewer than 41 Republican Senators and Joe Lieberman types, there would be a chance for change. If 41 or more there is no chance.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/10/did_lie
berman_just_kill_the_public_option.html



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Her endless "Bill, Hillary, Obama" deflections. Her other posts today are the same.

She's an obedient little stooge.

==============================


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Friday, July 21, 2017 11:08 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Obamacare is not Medicare for All. I'm talking about the death of Obamacare bringing itself about.

I wish Kennedy were around today too. He got killed because he actually gave a shit, unlike any president in my lifetime.

Kennedy got killed because he insisted on riding with the top down rather than listen to the Secret Service who wanted the top up on the limo. It was Texas, Kennedy was hated by Texans because he was a Democrat, he was begging to be shot dead. And so it happened.



You really have a screwed up point of view on the world and on people if you really believe this. I'm not even going to get into any theories about why Kennedy was shot because that would be a thread all on its own and it's all been said before.

You really believe that Kennedy was shot simply because Texans hate Democrats that much?

You have to be joking, so I'm not going to take it that you seriously meant this. Kennedy was nothing like the corrupt Democrats of the last 30 years. If you actually believe that Republicans killed him just because, than no wonder you talk like you do in here everyday.

Quote:

My point was that Medicare for All would be cheaper than Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas. We ended up with Obamacare rather than getting closer to Medicare for All because of Senator Joe Lieberman, who would later endorse Republican John McCain and more recently be interviewed by Trump for FBI head. Lieberman screwed the Democrats, his former political party. Half a loaf is better than none and Obamacare was the half-ass loaf that could be passed over the opposition of every fucking Republican and despite Lieberman sabotaging it. He was the absolutely necessary 60th Senator who broke the Republican plan to filibuster Obamacare.



You keep saying that, but Obama and the Democrats seemed pretty pleased with themselves when Obamacare was passed. Were they lying to us? Were they lying to themselves?

The resident clown here even said it was a "roaring success" the other day.



EDIT: I edited this post about an hour later to address Kennedy because nobody had posted afterward and I figured you hadn't seen it yet.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 12:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Deflect, deflect, deflect. That is, as you know, the new mantra of our dear friends who either worship orange people or people from foreign countries at the expense of our values and way of life.

I know, that was a bit long-winded, but you know what I mean. - SHINY

No, I don't know what you mean. What IS "our way of life"? Getting reamed in the ass by insurances and big pharma? Invading and destabilizing every nation in sight? Giving up all of our power to the elites? Following a political party (ANY political party) blindly?

Look, I know it's fashionable to blame everything on "Republicans" (or "Russians") but, seriously .... HILLARY?? I expect better of my representatives, especially Democrats, but Obama frittered away a historic opportunity and the DNC compounded the problem.

But OK, fine... let it all come crashing down. Don't expect the Dems to stand for anything, if you think that's the answer to our problems.

SIX: SECOND has got a mania about Texas Republicans as The Cause of All the World's Problems. Apparently they're the biggest thing is his world.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 22, 2017 12:23 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


SHITTY

You're as much of a lying drunken troll as THUGGR is a lying stupid one.

I challenge you to find me saying one good thing about Trump OR Putin.

Just one.

And if you, and SLOPPY SECONDS are the best example of the democrat home team, god help you. And the country. Because we're hosed.






Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 12:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, KIKI, unless the Dumbocrats can off their fat, paid-for asses, they may be looking at the demise of their own party as well as the demise of the Republican party:

Quote:

Broke And Bleeding Cash, DNC Ends June $3.3 Million In Debt

... DNC Chair Tom Perez recently sent out a fundraising email to supporters claiming, “I know garbage when I see it,” citing that he once worked on a dump truck. It’s ironic that he referred to the GOP health care bill as a “flaming dumpster fire” because he has been presiding over the disaster that is the Democratic National Committee. The organization reported that May 2017 was its worst fundraising month since the Iraq War in 2003, and April 2017 was its worst fundraising month since 2009. In May, the DNC also reported that it has $1.9 million in debt. Despite the fact that former Secretary of Labor Tom Perez was recruited by Barack Obama to appease the party’s donors, lobbyists and PACs, even they have refused to prop up the failing brand.

... Not approving of the strategies laid out at a retreat for donors in January 2017, billionaires Mark Pincus and Reid Hoffman started their own political organization, Win the Future. As donors are increasingly tired of seeing their investments go to waste, many have started their own funds or used their access to take over leadership positions themselves—such as Florida billionaire donor Stephen Bittel did to become the Florida Democratic Party chair earlier this year. Democratic billionaire J.B. Pritzker is running for governor of Illinois, and billionaire Tom Steyer is debating running for governor of California. Haim Saban and James Simons poured millions into Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, but they have yet to be listed by the FEC as DNC donors in 2017. Additionally, George Soros has only given $33,900 to the DNC in 2017, but he poured millions of dollars into the Democratic Party in 2016.



I guess even the billionaires aren't buying the DNC crap anymore. That's the problem with claiming to represent the people but the representing the elite ... at some point, you can't do both effectively, and you wind up "on the floor between two chairs".


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 22, 2017 1:42 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I assumed the dems would find themselves splitting between the party corporatist liberaloids and the socialist left. I didn't imagine the march of the billionaires happening. I wonder how the billionaires are going to sell themselves to the masses. Vote for us because we have a lot of the money we didn't pay you in our private bank accounts? I can see how that could be crazy popular! .not. Anyway, I'm too tired to even TRY to think about how the billionaires can square that circle.




Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 3:26 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Additionally, George Soros has only given $33,900 to the DNC in 2017...


Why such a strange number? That's probably less than he spends per year on hand woven toilet paper.

If that's a legitimate number, he must be sending the DNC a message with it. I wonder what it is? I wonder how the message would be different than just not giving them any money at all.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Additionally, George Soros has only given $33,900 to the DNC in 2017... - SIGNY

Why such a strange number? That's probably less than he spends per year on hand woven toilet paper.

If that's a legitimate number, he must be sending the DNC a message with it. I wonder what it is? I wonder how the message would be different than just not giving them any money at all. - SIX

Hmmm.... good question! It would be more understandable if it was 666 or something like it.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SHITTY
You're as much of a lying drunken troll as THUGGR is a lying stupid one.
I challenge you to find me saying one good thing about Trump OR Putin.
Just one.
And if you, and SLOPPY SECONDS are the best example of the democrat home team, god help you. And the country. Because we're hosed.- KIKI

Oh, he's just mad because I keep criticizing the Dems for being so weak, and drunk because it's Friday.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Obamacare is not Medicare for All. I'm talking about the death of Obamacare bringing itself about.

I wish Kennedy were around today too. He got killed because he actually gave a shit, unlike any president in my lifetime.

Kennedy got killed because he insisted on riding with the top down rather than listen to the Secret Service who wanted the top up on the limo. It was Texas, Kennedy was hated by Texans because he was a Democrat, he was begging to be shot dead. And so it happened.



You really have a screwed up point of view on the world and on people if you really believe this. I'm not even going to get into any theories about why Kennedy was shot because that would be a thread all on its own and it's all been said before.

You really believe that Kennedy was shot simply because Texans hate Democrats that much?

You have to be joking, so I'm not going to take it that you seriously meant this. Kennedy was nothing like the corrupt Democrats of the last 30 years. If you actually believe that Republicans killed him just because, than no wonder you talk like you do in here everyday.

Kennedy got killed because he did not listen to the experts in the Secret Service who told him he was risking his life by riding in a convertible without the top up. The point is that Kennedy did not listen. (The Secret Service also advised Kennedy to not sneak women into the White House for sex. He did NOT listen and he hurt his reputation posthumously, but at least the damage wasn't a bullet to the brain.) My point is NOT that the majority of Texans hate Democrats, although they do. My point is that the Secret Service gave Kennedy good advice, despite lacking the extraordinary prescience to foresee Lee Harvey Oswald, who was not a Republican. The Secret Service used their common sense about dangers unique to Texas, good sense that Kennedy lacked, maybe because he was rich and always lucky and his previous stupidity wasn't fatal. Remember the Bay of Pigs? A Kennedy decision about as stupid as any made by a President. Remember Vietnam? Kennedy, again being stupid. The Cuban Missile Crisis? Kennedy stupidly moving missiles into Turkey and Russia responds with missiles into Cuba.

Kennedy being his usual shortsighted self and causing a catastrophe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_assassination_of_Ngo_Dinh_Die
m#US_reaction

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Friday, July 28, 2017 7:10 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


If I have to explain the American way of life, then I'm already too late. Why do you think Russia "loves" us so much? Okay, the Dems are as much to blame as the repubs.

But I don't see Dems looking to throw millions off of what passes for health care in this country. And yes, how about them elites? Who is looking to give the elites a tax break, and at who's expense. I can tell you that those "elites" have nothing to worry about.

And then we have our fearless leader going around claiming that he helped create millions of jobs. Where exactly? Carrier!? Ford? This is the man who gave a stump speech to a bunch of Boy Scouts. Wow!

And I mention Hillary, Bill and Obama because that's all I hear from the Trump Gallery. Fuck, 6 months in and he's still obsessed with them. Dude, you won. Time to move on, time to make something - anything - happen!

It took an old man stricken with the most aggressive cancer going to shame both sides into finally working to do the right thing. Ok, let me have it! Come on, I know that you have some sort of smart ass reply. Go ahead, give it to me both barrels - I have no qualms in accepting the real deal.

No political party? Sure, let's go back in time to when the west had not been totally overrun by crazy, greedy motherfuckers. As a matter of course, let's rid ourselves of all politicians, and the greedy sons of bitches that want to rule this earth. The ones that want to enslave everyone and sit back sipping on Crystal. Let's do a French revolution vibe and behead all the greedy fucks of this world. The lawyers, doctors, Big Pharma, the trumps, Putins, Clintons, Bezos, you fill in the rest.....Let's see what this world would be like once the meek inherit the earth.

I say.....get the coal miners to go and work for the farmers that are losing millions because they don't have anyone to pick their crops to take to market.
Damned if you do, and damned if you don't........Obama deports millions of illegal aliens and that's what happens to the farming industry. But I've read online someone complaining that Obama deported all those people.....imagine that. Now, who wants to take over the jobs the illegal aliens were doing? Why not create a work visa that gives these folk points for working hard and keeping their noses clean while in this country. And after, 10 years (all the while paying their fare share of taxes - of course, the farmers would have to pay a decent wage) allow them to take a test to become citizens.

If they serve in the military - instant citizenship. That simple.

I have more ideas, but I gotta go!

P.S. I have to say that I got a new found respect for John McCain. The man gave a rousing speech on the Senate Floor and showed both parties how it's done....BRAVO!
Of course, he's 80 and has an aggressive form of cancer attacking his body, so what does he have to lose, right? But still, good for him and glad he thumbed his nose at the Orange President....that's right Fuck Him!

Now get to work you miserable piles of dog shit (guess who I'm talking about?) and give us Universal Health Care for crying out loud! The fucking richest country in the world and we're still putzing around with this fucked up system, paying through the nose for the right to live healthy.

All military personnel should receive FREE medical.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Deflect, deflect, deflect. That is, as you know, the new mantra of our dear friends who either worship orange people or people from foreign countries at the expense of our values and way of life.

I know, that was a bit long-winded, but you know what I mean. - SHINY

No, I don't know what you mean. What IS "our way of life"? Getting reamed in the ass by insurances and big pharma? Invading and destabilizing every nation in sight? Giving up all of our power to the elites? Following a political party (ANY political party) blindly?

Look, I know it's fashionable to blame everything on "Republicans" (or "Russians") but, seriously .... HILLARY?? I expect better of my representatives, especially Democrats, but Obama frittered away a historic opportunity and the DNC compounded the problem.

But OK, fine... let it all come crashing down. Don't expect the Dems to stand for anything, if you think that's the answer to our problems.

SIX: SECOND has got a mania about Texas Republicans as The Cause of All the World's Problems. Apparently they're the biggest thing is his world.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one



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Friday, July 28, 2017 8:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump tweeted today: “As I said from the beginning, let ObamaCare implode, then deal. Watch!”
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/890820505330212864

It’s a typical Trump reaction. He will prolong the uncertainty that’s already wreaked havoc on insurance markets.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/1/15373372/obamacare-tennessee-
zero-insurers


Now would be a great time to unveil Trump's plan. You know, the one he promised that would cover everyone with lower premiums?
www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/ap-fact-check-trumps-promises-health-care/

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