REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Draining The Swamp

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 05:33
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VIEWED: 3827
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Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:55 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."


SGG

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Wednesday, September 27, 2017 5:52 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Gary Cohn, now Director of the National Economic Council, Is Giving Goldman Sachs Everything It Ever Wanted From the Trump Administration
https://theintercept.com/2017/09/17/goldman-sachs-gary-cohn-donald-tru
mp-administration
/

Trump was dumbfounded. “Is this true?” he asked. Was a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan likely to increase the deficit by a trillion dollars? Confronted by nodding heads, an unhappy president-elect said, “Why did I have to wait to have this guy tell me?”

Goldman Sachs had been a favorite cudgel for candidate Trump — the symbol of a government that favors Wall Street over its citizenry. Trump proclaimed that Hillary Clinton was in the firm’s pockets, as was Ted Cruz. It was Goldman Sachs that Trump singled out when he railed against a system rigged in favor of the global elite — one that “robbed our working class, stripped our country of wealth, and put money into the pockets of a handful of large corporations and political entities.” Cohn, as president and chief operating officer of Goldman Sachs, had been at the heart of it all. Aggressive and relentless, a former aluminum siding salesman and commodities broker with a nose for making money, Cohn had turned Goldman’s sleepy home loan unit into what a Senate staffer called “one of the largest mortgage trading desks in the world.” There, he aggressively pushed his sales team to sell mortgage-backed securities to unaware investors even as he watched over “the big short,” Goldman’s decision to bet billions of dollars that the market would collapse.

Now Cohn would be coordinating economic policy for the populist president. Cohn ran a giant investment bank with offices in financial capitals around the globe, one deeply committed to a world with few economic borders. Trump’s nationalist campaign contradicted everything Goldman Sachs and its top executives represented on the global stage.

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Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:04 PM

OONJERAH


So are we moving toward: 2% of the people will control 90% of the money?

How did we get here?

How the Right Lost Its Mind and Embraced Donald Trump
http://www.newsweek.com/2017/09/29/right-lost-mind-embraced-donald-tru
mp-668180.html


While I was bemoaning that he'd won the election & was totally
unsuitable, a friend of mine told me that the GOP had gone nuts.
He blamed religion, though.

I feel that DJT will soon offend most of the Republicans.
Conservatives don't like to look so foolish, do they?


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 PM

6STRINGJOKER


LOL... well if we're just going to pretend that one party is the end of days for everybody else and the other party is a symbol of all that is good and right in the world then there is no debate to be had here.

I want to agree with you guys on things. I don't like being in the position of defending the establishment. It's not the side I'm usually on.

You sure don't make it easy though.

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Thursday, September 28, 2017 10:51 PM

OONJERAH



6STRINGJOKER: "...and the other party is a symbol of all that is good and right in the world..."


Obviously, you're not addressing me. I didn't mention "the other party."
If you do address me, please don't try to put words in my mouth
or thoughts in my head. It's both rude & inaccurate.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Friday, September 29, 2017 1:47 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

6STRINGJOKER: "...and the other party is a symbol of all that is good and right in the world..."


Obviously, you're not addressing me. I didn't mention "the other party."
If you do address me, please don't try to put words in my mouth
or thoughts in my head. It's both rude & inaccurate.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...



Really?

Quote:

How did we get here?


The rest of your post then had "the Right", "GOP", "Republicans" and "Conservatives" in it. Stating that they have lost their mind, debating whether or not it was because of religion, and saying somewhat sarcastically that they don't like looking foolish.

Maybe you didn't use the phrase "the other side", but you used every available word for them in just a few short sentences, and you're obviously not on that side.

What exactly do you object to here?

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Friday, September 29, 2017 2:30 AM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
LOL... well if we're just going to pretend that one party is the end of days for everybody else and the other party is a symbol of all that is good and right in the world then there is no debate to be had here.

I want to agree with you guys on things. I don't like being in the position of defending the establishment. It's not the side I'm usually on.

You sure don't make it easy though.



On 1st read, I thought "we're" referred to me. But now,
I guess it refers to yourself & like minded friends.

I don't know who "you guys" & "You" refers to, but am I one of them?

But if none of those pronouns refers to me, I'm happy
& will not be offended. It was a misunderstanding. Yes?

Donald J. Trump as PotUS, I consider this a bad mistake. I'd say
the same if he were a libertarian, independent or democrat.

Did you read the article I linked to?

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Friday, September 29, 2017 6:17 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
LOL... well if we're just going to pretend that one party is the end of days for everybody else and the other party is a symbol of all that is good and right in the world then there is no debate to be had here.

I want to agree with you guys on things. I don't like being in the position of defending the establishment. It's not the side I'm usually on.

You sure don't make it easy though.



On 1st read, I thought "we're" referred to me. But now,
I guess it refers to yourself & like minded friends.

I don't know who "you guys" & "You" refers to, but am I one of them?

But if none of those pronouns refers to me, I'm happy
& will not be offended. It was a misunderstanding. Yes?

Donald J. Trump as PotUS, I consider this a bad mistake. I'd say
the same if he were a libertarian, independent or democrat.

Did you read the article I linked to?

... oooOO}{OOooo ...



"We're" did refer to everybody who had already posted in this thread. My point is that I'm still not happy with how things are going almost a year in and this is around the time I'd like to get in on the action. But I'm not going to be flipping to be with a bunch of people who honestly think that Obama was a good president, Hillary would have made a good president, and the only thing wrong with the world today is Trump.



I tried to read your article, but he lost me at "On June 12, 1987, President Reagan was in West Berlin to deliver a powerful message to the evil empire, the USSR.", when Mr. Sykes unironically used the phrase "evil empire" as if we're living in a Star Wars universe.

Not having any clue who Mr. Sykes is, the whole piece seems to be written by a Democrat who thinks that this is what a Republican would sound like if they turned their back on the Dark Side.

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Saturday, September 30, 2017 11:15 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."


SGG


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Monday, October 2, 2017 12:12 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."

SGG

And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.

SGG

That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!

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Monday, October 2, 2017 12:16 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
So are we moving toward: 2% of the people will control 90% of the money?

How did we get here?

How the Right Lost Its Mind and Embraced Donald Trump
http://www.newsweek.com/2017/09/29/right-lost-mind-embraced-donald-tru
mp-668180.html


While I was bemoaning that he'd won the election & was totally
unsuitable, a friend of mine told me that the GOP had gone nuts.
He blamed religion, though.

I feel that DJT will soon offend most of the Republicans.
Conservatives don't like to look so foolish, do they?



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Please don't confuse supporters of lifelong Liberal Democrat Trump with Republicans or conservatives.

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Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:27 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Obama, oh I forgot, he's to blame for Hurricane Maria and all the rest...right!

Meanwhile Trump is Making America Great Again, YEAH RIGHT!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."


SGG


That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!


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Wednesday, October 4, 2017 9:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Obama, oh I forgot, he's to blame for Hurricane Maria and all the rest...right!

Meanwhile Trump is Making America Great Again, YEAH RIGHT!

SGG
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.


SGG
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."

SGG


That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!


Yer sayin Maria is Tom Price's fault?

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Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:25 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


No.

It's my sad commentary on the state of affairs in the Trump White House. Ya know, he promised to 'drain the swamp' but he's the Ringmaster Supreme to the Three Ring Circus and Funhouse antics of 2017 and beyond.

He's created a new "Swamp" - it's ok, we know. This is tough for me too. (Oh you don't know the half of it).


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Obama, oh I forgot, he's to blame for Hurricane Maria and all the rest...right!

Meanwhile Trump is Making America Great Again, YEAH RIGHT!

SGG
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.


SGG
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."

SGG


That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!


Yer sayin Maria is Tom Price's fault?


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Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:29 PM

OONJERAH



“We’re never going to say in advance what the president’s going to do,”
White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said at the Friday
news briefing. “You’ll have to wait and see.”

That's understandable. I doubt he knows himself.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Saturday, October 7, 2017 9:59 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I wonder what's worse....

The premeditated destruction of America by the presidents and the administrations of the last couple of decades, or an accidental one now.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 2:08 AM

OONJERAH


Bob Corker Says Trump’s Recklessness Threatens ‘World War III’
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/us/politics/trump-corker.html

WASHINGTON — Senator Bob Corker, the Republican chairman of the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee, charged in an interview on Sunday
that President Trump was treating his office like “a reality show,”
with reckless threats toward other countries that could set the nation
“on the path to World War III.”


Someone in the Republican party finally noticed/said this! Yay!!

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Monday, October 9, 2017 4:31 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Accidental!? Well, that's a unique way of putting it. And premeditated? How so?
I could see it in Bush's case - WMDs, that was an out and out lie; in order for Cheney to make billions with Halliburton. Anyway, that's done with.

But accidental? Trump promised to Make American Great Again...has he kept his promise? Is he making America great.....again? Wasn't it always great? I don't get it. Wasn't America great when Obama brought us back from the brink of economic collapse? Or when he negotiated with Iran to stop them from developing N-bombs?
Wasn't America great during the Olympics? Or when we got Bin Laden? Or when the car industry came back? Was America that bad off in the last 15 years?

By the way, when are we going to start winning? When will we win so much that we'll say: "Mr. President, please, no more winning." Do you think you would ever say, "no more winning"?

Just a thought!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I wonder what's worse....

The premeditated destruction of America by the presidents and the administrations of the last couple of decades, or an accidental one now.


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Monday, October 9, 2017 11:21 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Accidental!? Well, that's a unique way of putting it. And premeditated? How so?
I could see it in Bush's case - WMDs, that was an out and out lie; in order for Cheney to make billions with Halliburton. Anyway, that's done with.

But accidental? Trump promised to Make American Great Again...has he kept his promise? Is he making America great.....again? Wasn't it always great? I don't get it. Wasn't America great when Obama brought us back from the brink of economic collapse? Or when he negotiated with Iran to stop them from developing N-bombs?
Wasn't America great during the Olympics? Or when we got Bin Laden? Or when the car industry came back? Was America that bad off in the last 15 years?

By the way, when are we going to start winning? When will we win so much that we'll say: "Mr. President, please, no more winning." Do you think you would ever say, "no more winning"?

Just a thought!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I wonder what's worse....

The premeditated destruction of America by the presidents and the administrations of the last couple of decades, or an accidental one now.


wow.
Your media has really good Koolaid.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:40 AM

OONJERAH


The 12 most damning Bob Corker quotes about Donald Trump
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/trump-corker-quotes/index.html

(CNN) — Bob Corker went off on Donald Trump Sunday night.

For 25 minutes, the Tennessee Republican senator unloaded lots (and lots)
of pent-up frustrations to New York Times' reporter Jonathan Martin. ...


... oooOO}{OOooo ...
Well ... yeah!

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:05 PM

OONJERAH


Forbes ...
How to be President : the Art of the Deal ... are the same thing for Trump.
Hmmm?

Inside Trump’s Head: An Exclusive Interview With the President,
And The Single Theory That Explains Everything

https://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/exclusive-interview/#1d086ceabdec


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Friday, October 13, 2017 12:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


This is turning into a "Trump's Greatest Failures" thread, but we already have one of those http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61905 and I think that title BEST expresses the topic of how people of ALL political persuasions see Trump's greatest failures, so I'm going to put my opinions about Trump's failures in there.

I just want to make a comment to partisans of both stripes here: If you're a partisan - in other words, a die-hard defender of your party, everyone in it, and everything that it does - well I hope that description is enough to make you see the problem with that POV.

But just it case it doesn't, I'm going to beat the point to death a little bit more: You're making the mistake of thinking that just because you think one party is "evil" that must mean that the other party is "good". But these are politicians. I doubt that you can find one honest one in any random set of 100, in either party. I acknowledge that there are a few more "good" politicians in the Democratic Party than in the GOP, but I can name them on the fingers of one hand; they make up a vanishingly small number no matter which party you look at and none of them achieve any significant, systemic, lasting benefit for the average person anyway. You have to judge the party as a whole.


******

In KPO's thread about "The State of Freedom in Russia", he acknowledges that he's completely uninterested in "the state of freedom" in any other nation BESIDES Russia, and that includes the state of freedom in his own nation (Britain) and the state of freedom in the USA.

I asked him what accounted for his laser focus on Russia.

There are a lot of venal answers to that question, but in my view there is only one legitimate answer, only one reason why someone should focus on Russian events and policies, even to the exclusion of events in and policies of your own nation, and that is if you see Russia as such an immediate existential threat that it requires ditching every other concern, to hell with civil liberties, the deficit, and the marketplace! It's "all hands on deck and man battle stations!"

When I look at the threat posed by Russia, I simply don't see the need for that kind of response. The only REAL threat that they pose is de-dollarization (forcing the world off the petrodollar, which has given us an open credit card with the rest of the world since 1973), and even in THAT case, the answer isn't military or political, it should consist of us minding our financial matters better.

In fact, when I look at every single major problem that the USA has, from ...

staggering wealth inequality to
massive private debt to
potentially unstable banks to
the loss of the petrodollar to
a failed health care policy to
environmental collapse to
loss of manufacturing to
completely unbalanced trade to
illegal immigrants to
disunited public to
loss of commonsense values to
unemployment to
loss of civil liberties to
(add more here) ...

every single problem in the USA was caused by our own politicians. Politicians who repeatedly stabbed us in the back, over and over, in favor of endless wars and ever-higher profits and rampant financialization and overconsumption based on debt. All for their corporate lords, who rake in the rewards while we get the shaft.

It wasn't "Russia" who got us to this point, or "Libya" or "Iraq" or any of the phony "enemies" that are constantly being popped up as distractions. It wasn't Trump who got us here, or Obama, or Bush, or Clinton. It wasn't even "terrorism".

It wasn't "Democrats" OR "Republicans", it was BOTH of them. Each party, in its own way, got us to this point of failure. Democrats try to put a sweet syrup on their defections while Republicans champion their actions as rightful policy, but in the end it took the combined effort of both parties, working for decades and decades, to get us to this point.

At least, that's how I see it.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, October 13, 2017 2:55 PM

OONJERAH


Signym,
  If Trump resigned making Pence president, our situation would
be no better or worse,
  If the Democrats win the 2020 election, our situation will be
no better or worse.

Is that what you are telling us?

If so, then things look very bad to me.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Friday, October 13, 2017 4:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


As long as "establishment" candidates make it to Congress and the Presidency, IMHO the answer is pretty much "yes".

Oh, the Dems and the Repubs are different flavors, but when it comes to issues that affect the 0.01%, they pretty much sing from the same hymnbook.

Here's how I see the Dem establishment:
WAR
When it comes to making war, the Dems are just as war-mongering as the Repubs. Bush destroyed Afghanistan and Iraq, but Obama managed to destroy Libya and Ukraine, split Sudan, and tried to destroy Syria. BOTH parties moved our NATO forces towards Russia, but the Dems made a critical geopolitical error: They decided to "pivot to Asia" ( 2010 https://thediplomat.com/2017/01/the-pivot-to-asia-was-obamas-biggest-m
istake
/) which forced China into the arms of Russia, and then their absurd sanctions and economic warfare against Russia forced Russia into the arms of China.

The difference in flavor? The Dems (Obama, Hillary, Kerry) favored proxy warfare and hybrid warfare, propelled by CIA/ State Department/ NGO/ Saudi-funded terrorist organizations, whereas the Repubs have generally favored the official military and big boots-on-the-ground actions.

FINACIALIZATION
Both the Dems and the Repubs are anxious to meet the desires of the 0.01% Bill Clinton gave up on financial regulation when he repealed Glass Steagall and signed the Commodities Futures Trading Act. The consequences weren't apparent until 2008. Both Bush and Obama tossed money at banks that speculated fraudulently, and despite Dodd-Frank, NEITHER party has reined in the rampant speculation (on credit) since then. And Dodd-Frank, due to its complexity, is preventing smaller banks - like community banks - from opening. There are answers to the problems, but I see no difference between the parties in how they treat financialization. Warren has made some weak-kneed moves towards "consumer protection", Kamala Harris, the up-and-coming CA Senator, caved in by accepting Obama's lack of banker prosecution ... the underlying weakness of the Dem position runs pretty much up and down the party.

The difference in flavor? The Dems are willing to make tiny concessions to "the people" as long as they don't impact the bottom line of the financialists.

TRADE
Both parties have pushed for greater international "free trade", once again favoring the 0.01%. Nixon "opened up China" with a special trade deal. Bill Clinton pushed for, and got, NAFTA, and CAFTA, and awarded China permanent normal trade relations, which helped them achieve acceptance into the WTO. GWB, according to the official website "increas[ed] the number of countries partnered with the U.S. on free trade agreements (FTAs) from three to 16". Obama attempted even broader scope "free trade" agreements with TTIP (Atlantic nations) and TPP (Pacific nations). Only Trump has pushed back on this, and he's being maneuvered into giving up many of his goals here, too.

The difference in flavor? None, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, I have to get busy, but I can give you a much longer disquisition on how I think the parties are the same and where they're flavored differently on issues like the deficit, the economy, and social issues. But overall, on anything that really matters, just plan on being stabbed in the back by both parties.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, October 13, 2017 9:31 PM

OONJERAH


Your William Blake quote is looking more relevant.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 11:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just to get back to how very much alike Repubs and Dems are when it comes to the 0.01% ...

WAR
The other flavor difference between Dems and Repubs is that Repubs tend to use military justifications for their wars of choice: Grenada was harboring Cubans (Reagan), Noreiga or Panama was a major drug runner (Bush 1), Afghanistan was harboring Osama bin Laden (Bush 2) and Saddam "had WMD" (Bush 2).

Dems tend to frame their military interventions as "helping"(!) the people. Yanukovich (despite having been elected) was an "undemocratic" leader; Qaddafi was "massacring his own people"; Assad was Massacring his own people"; and the Xtian blacks of southern Sudan were yearning to breathe fee from the Muslim Arabs of northern Sudan.

I find the Republican excuses laughable, but the Dem excuses are downright disgusting. That people believe EITHER of them is scary.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 12:36 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


I see the pattern in your examples, Signym.
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Dems tend to frame their military interventions as "helping"(!) the people. Yanukovich (despite having been elected) was an "undemocratic" leader;

Putin saved my life, says ousted Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11692593/Vladimir-Put
in-saved-my-life-says-ousted-Ukrainian-president-Viktor-Yanukovych.html


Quote:

Qaddafi was "massacring his own people";
Why was Putin so visibly distressed by the killing of Gaddafi?
www.quora.com/Why-was-Putin-so-visibly-distressed-by-the-killing-of-Ga
ddafi


Quote:

Assad was Massacring his own people";
Why Putin Is So Committed to Keeping Assad in Power
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/07/putins-russia-is-wedded-to-bashar-
al-assad-syria-moscow
/

Quote:

and the Xtian blacks of southern Sudan were yearning to breathe fee from the Muslim Arabs of northern Sudan.
Sudan president to visit Putin in Russia
www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/sudan-president-to-visit-puti
n-in-russia


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 15, 2017 8:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The "pattern" to my examples is the "pattern" established by USA policy which is that under all recent Presidents, whether Dem or Repub, the United States has been knocking over foreign nations like bowling pins in a bowling alley

I noticed a "pattern" in YOUR posts, SECOND.

(1) The only examples of war-mongering that YOU objected to were the examples that occurred under Obama. Well, I hate to tell you this, hon, but "Saint Obama" was just as war-mongery as GWB. That's the truth; deal with it.

(2) When Democratic policy starts to smell, DON'T look at the lies told to get "the people" behind (yet another) war, DON'T acknowledge that Dems have left great smoking swaths of economic and social ruin in their wakes, DON'T admit to failure and corruption .... BLAME PUTIN. Yeah! That's the answer!

That's been the Dem party establishment response for about the past year, and now, with more retro-activity!

Yanno SECOND, YOU should be upset that Dems have caused so much needless death and destruction. I mean, what the hell is wrong with you, that you would object to ANYone looking at the great smoking clusterfucks of instability that Saint Obama created? You DO know that hundreds of thousands of people were killed, yes? That many more were injured, that many women were enslaved, that millions were made refugees, and that the accumulated capital and infrastructure of hundreds of years was destroyed?

Is there something missing from your moral or intellectual code that makes you incapable of even recognizing and acknowledging the pointless pain and suffering that Saint Obama caused?

After all, you spend so much time weeping and wailing about the poor illegal immigrant/ person of color/ insert your victim subgroup of choice here , one would think that you care a great deal about ALL people impacted by USA policy.

But you'll let nothing stand in your way ... not truth, not even-handedness, and CERTAINLY not morals .... of finding one excuse after another for the Dem party.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, October 15, 2017 8:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The "pattern" to my examples is the "pattern" established by USA policy which is that under all recent Presidents, whether Dem or Repub, the United States has been knocking over foreign nations like bowling pins in a bowling alley

I noticed a "pattern" in YOUR posts, SECOND.

(1) The only examples of war-mongering that YOU objected to were the examples that occurred under Obama. Well, I hate to tell you this, hon, but "Saint Obama" was just as war-mongery as GWB. That's the truth; deal with it.

(2) When Democratic policy starts to smell, DON'T look at the lies told to get "the people" behind (yet another) war, DON'T acknowledge that Dems have left great smoking swaths of economic and social ruin in their wakes, DON'T admit to failure and corruption .... BLAME PUTIN. Yeah! That's the answer!

That's been the Dem party establishment response for about the past year, and now, with more retro-activity!

Yanno SECOND, YOU should be upset that Dems have caused so much needless death and destruction. I mean, what the hell is wrong with you, that you would object to ANYone looking at the great smoking clusterfucks of instability that Saint Obama created? You DO know that hundreds of thousands of people were killed, yes? That many more were injured, that many women were enslaved, that millions were made refugees, and that the accumulated capital and infrastructure of hundreds of years was destroyed?

Wasn't that the whole point of everything Obama did and wanted to do? And all Democrats, for that matter? They need to destroy, Bush wanted to Liberate, provide Freedom, support progress.
Quote:

Is there something missing from your moral or intellectual code that makes you incapable of even recognizing and acknowledging the pointless pain and suffering that Saint Obama caused?

After all, you spend so much time weeping and wailing about the poor illegal immigrant/ person of color/ insert your victim subgroup of choice here , one would think that you care a great deal about ALL people impacted by USA policy.

But you'll let nothing stand in your way ... not truth, not even-handedness, and CERTAINLY not morals .... of finding one excuse after another for the Dem party.


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Monday, October 16, 2017 2:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Wasn't that the whole point of everything Obama did and wanted to do? And all Democrats, for that matter? They need to destroy, Bush wanted to Liberate, provide Freedom, support progress.- JSF
Really?

As I recall the reason that was pounded in our heads day and night for invading Afghanistan was "Osama bin Laden ... dead or alive .... smoke 'em out".

And the reason for invading Iraq was "yellowcake ... weapons of mass destruction ... Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat ... mushroom cloud ...

Don't you remember that big show that Colin Powell made for the UN where he tried (and failed) to convince the world that Saddam was actively developing and manufacturing WMD?



Please don't rewrite history.

*****

But let's assume that you're correct, that all GWB wanted to do was bring "freedom" and "prosperity" to Afghanistan and Iraq.

As far as Afghanistan was concerned, the USA approach was sardonically referred to as "bombing Afghanistan even further back into the stone age". There was no real attempt at stabilization or development; that was left to the NGO's which lived on embassy row and freely admitted that much of their money went to bribing local officials.

In Iraq, everything about USA policy, from starting with a bombing campaign which also targeted civilian infrastructure (sewage treatment plants, water treatment plants, and electricity generating stations) to Bremer imposing some sort of "privatization" wet-dream onto a foreign, war-torn economy, to de-Ba'athification ... everything that the Bush administration did took Iraq further and further away from both freedom and prosperity.

So in BOTH cases, if leading these nations to freedom and prosperity was the goal, it was an utter failure.

But don't feel TOO bad. The Dems said that THEY wanted to save the people of Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and South Sudan from brutal, murderous dictators. After the tender ministrations of Democratic destabilization, the people of Libya and Syria are overrun with terrorists, all of them are embroiled in civil war, and millions have fled their homelands!

So, are the policymakers and military men serving both Presidents, complete, incompetent boobs? Or was freedom and prosperity never really the goal in the first place?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, October 16, 2017 5:07 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

wow.
Your media has really good Koolaid.



That's it. That's all you have to say? Yeah, Rush and Fox & Friends, they don't lead you to the watering trough? No, not them....they would never!


SGG

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Monday, October 16, 2017 5:10 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


That was AWESOME!

Now that he's leaving, he can say what he really thinks, instead of swallowing his pride (and the Kool-Aid)?

As the right reverend Jim Carrey once said (in Liar, Liar) "...and the truth shall set you free."


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The 12 most damning Bob Corker quotes about Donald Trump
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/trump-corker-quotes/index.html

(CNN) — Bob Corker went off on Donald Trump Sunday night.

For 25 minutes, the Tennessee Republican senator unloaded lots (and lots)
of pent-up frustrations to New York Times' reporter Jonathan Martin. ...


... oooOO}{OOooo ...
Well ... yeah!


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Monday, October 16, 2017 5:11 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


And don't forget the "Fake" Bible he holds up.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Forbes ...
How to be President : the Art of the Deal ... are the same thing for Trump.
Hmmm?

Inside Trump’s Head: An Exclusive Interview With the President,
And The Single Theory That Explains Everything

https://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/exclusive-interview/#1d086ceabdec


... oooOO}{OOooo ...


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Monday, October 16, 2017 7:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Yanno SECOND, YOU should be upset that Dems have caused so much needless death and destruction. I mean, what the hell is wrong with you, that you would object to ANYone looking at the great smoking clusterfucks of instability that Saint Obama created? You DO know that hundreds of thousands of people were killed, yes? That many more were injured, that many women were enslaved, that millions were made refugees, and that the accumulated capital and infrastructure of hundreds of years was destroyed?

You know perfectly well that America spends more on killing than the next dozen countries. Americans might call it "defense", but the weaponry and ammo are for killing, not "defending". Unsurprising to me, many people are killed or maimed and their property destroyed by the Pentagon. It follows as nights follow days. But most Americans don't care about what follows what. That includes the Americans that don't vote, too. You can see the exact same dynamic with guns purchased for "defense" by Americans. The gun murder rate and suicide rate are high because Americans don't care to limit how much is spent on "defending" themselves. Why do Americans not care? It is not the Democratic Party telling them to not care. But the GOP certainly does tell them to not be careful about killing and destroying. Trump is a case-study in Republican indifference to who dies and who is harmed in Korea. Maybe I should mention the great pile of weaponry Trump is purchasing? All that ammo he doesn't use will be available to the Pentagon during the next President's term. The Pentagon will certainly be killing with whatever bullets Trump doesn't fire, no matter what political party is in power. The next President would have to confiscate and destroy those weapons to have any effect on the killing. If a President did that, the GOP would oppose the action more strongly than confiscating guns. Second Amendment right, you know?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 16, 2017 9:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Why do Americans not care?
Nice deflection SECOND.

But I wasn't talking about "Americans", I was talking about YOU. Why don't YOU care about the victims of the Dem party?

After all, you care about the victims of the Repub Party, yessiree! Gays, blacks, illegal immigrants ... If the Repubs done it, you're all on it like white on rice. But if the Dems done it .... *crickets*

Quote:

It is not the Democratic Party telling them to not care.
Of course it is! Which Dem party leader vowed to stop supporting terrorists in the mideast and to stop toppling governments left and right? Is there even one?

Despite the Dem part whining and crying about the poor downtrodden people in the Yanukovich/ Qaddafi/ Assad/ al Bashir "regimes", do you hear anything now from the Dem party about the even worse trodding- down of those very same peoples by the forces of destruction that the Dems themselves let loose?

Any sober assessment of the results of their nation-topplings? Any comparison of their stated goals (to "help" the peoples of their target nation) with the actual results? Any assumption of responsibility? Any plans to change their actions in future? Or do they blame Republicans, Trump, and Russia for the failures of their own party, in one GIANT deflection of masterful denial/ alternate blame-laying?

And are their partisan fanatics ever-so-willing to go along with the leadership, never to take an actual look at what the Dem party has done, but to remain forever in denial?

YOU, SECOND. YOU. Will YOU endlessly drag the GOP and Trump and the Russian red herrings thru every criticism of the Dem Party?

Yanno, that doesn't wash with me because I've picked pretty hard on Republicans .... you're not about to get me defending the GOP. Russia is simply not to blame for Dem fuckups, and Trump is too recent to be blamed for Dem policies.

I am certainly not saying that the Dems were wrong but the GOP was right. But every time someone criticizes the Dem party, you turn this into an either/or question. Well, can't they BOTH be evil?

BTW, I made a bet with hubs that you will keep squirming and deflecting in order to keep denying that the Dem part was ever wrong about .... well, anything important. You said you were raised as a Jehovah's witness. Well, assuming that's true, you might have left that PARTICULAR religion, but you apparently just transferred your religiosity to the Dem party.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, October 16, 2017 10:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Why do Americans not care?
Nice deflection SECOND.

YOU, SECOND. YOU. Will you endlessly drag the GOP and Trump and the Russian red herrings thru every criticism of the Dem Party?

Do you see war protesters marching in the streets of America? No. Do you see American war veterans demanding peace? No. That is why the Democratic party and the GOP are constantly spending to go to war with the world. The Democrats less than the GOP, but neither are a peace party. If the Democrats were a peace party, the GOP would use its demagoguery skills to make Democrats appear to be soft, weak, appeasers and Americans would respond by voting even more overwhelmingly Republican.

Why would I care to join a peace movement? I do NOT fit the description of a peaceful person, although I do vote for Democrats. I really ought to vote for what is best for me as a one percenter, a vet with a bad temper, and a gun owner. That would be Republican, but I've got a different background from once upon a time being a Jehovah's Witness. I was young, but some of it stayed with me. I'd make a terrible Witness, but I still do despise those people who would treat Witnesses badly. That would be the GOP and every Republican I've ever come across. There is a Jehovah's Witness story https://qz.com/1102238 about President Bush and Trump oppressing people who don't pledge their allegiance. I am on the side of the Witnesses and against Republicans on that issue and a thousand others. Trumpcare, for one very real example.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 16, 2017 4:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


We got it. Ages ago. You despise republicans.

But why does that blind you to the ironically-named democratic party faults?

You can be anti-republican and still be critical of the things democrats are doing that are self-destructively wrong (such as manipulating the process to shoe-horn in a candidate with historic net negative ratings).




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, October 16, 2017 4:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think that for partisans, no amount of so-called 'democratic' misdeeds will change their minds about the party.

And no volume of disproven anti-Trump hysteria
Quote:

Evidence: So where are we now(II) ?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61935

will reveal to them the impoverished nature of that approach.

But for others - not so much. The hysteria is seen as the insubstantial fluff that is is.

So while Trump's approval rating is at 35%, the republican party favorability rating remains at 39% - and the democratic party favorability rating has DROPPED to 40%.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/217346/trump-job-approval-stabilizing-lowe
r-level.aspx?g_source=position1&g_medium=related&g_campaign=tiles

http://news.gallup.com/poll/210725/democratic-party-image-dips-gop-rat
ings-stable.aspx


This STILL reflects the presidential race, where BOTH Trump AND Hillary went in with historic overall disapproval ratings.


DEMOCRATS - gibbering endlessly about Trump while failing to be an actual alternative is not how you win friends and influence people. MAKE YOUR OBJECTIONS SUBSTANTIVE AND PROVABLE. AND MAKE YOURSELVES A VIABLE MAJORITY ALTERNATIVE. And while this has segued to
Quote:

A thread for Democrats Only
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61954

I wanted to make that point here.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:07 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


None of what you said is true. Nothing that you advise works. That are many substantive and provable objections and those get no traction with Americans that include many Dem, Rep, Independent and Not-voting-because-I-am-disquieted-by-both-parties. Poll numbers might drop randomly based on real world events, but soon enough all is forgotten and the only thing remembered clearly is that one party makes all the promises and the other party won’t. The party of won’t, won’t get elected because it won’t claim it can go all the way to goals that are mathematically proven to be out of reach. At this point you won’t follow the link if you are the typical no-traction-American because you don’t want to know, you only want to be persuaded. The art of persuasion is to get suckers to buy from con men.
https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-
lies-lies-lies-lies-lies
/
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

We got it. Ages ago. You despise republicans.

But why does that blind you to the ironically-named democratic party faults?

You can be anti-republican and still be critical of the things democrats are doing that are self-destructively wrong (such as manipulating the process to shoe-horn in a candidate with historic net negative ratings).

DEMOCRATS - gibbering endlessly about Trump while failing to be an actual alternative is not how you win friends and influence people. MAKE YOUR OBJECTIONS SUBSTANTIVE AND PROVABLE. AND MAKE YOURSELVES A VIABLE MAJORITY ALTERNATIVE.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


ANOTHER deflection SECOND.
Quote:

Why do Americans not care? - SECOND

Nice deflection SECOND. YOU, SECOND. YOU. Will you endlessly drag the GOP and Trump and the Russian red herrings thru every criticism of the Dem Party?0 SIGNY

Do you see war protesters marching in the streets of America? No. Do you see American war veterans demanding peace? No. That is why the Democratic party and the GOP are constantly spending to go to war with the world. The Democrats less than the GOP, but neither are a peace party. If the Democrats were a peace party, the GOP would use its demagoguery skills to make Democrats appear to be soft, weak, appeasers and Americans would respond by voting even more overwhelmingly Republican. Why would I care to join a peace movement? I do NOT fit the description of a peaceful person, although I do vote for Democrats.- SECOND

I was asking about YOUR personal moral judgment, not about "the [stupid] American people" whom you constantly hide behind at the same time that you berate them.

So, let's keep this simple: Do you approve or disapprove of Democrats destroying nations abroad, with the result that those nations become more tyrannical and less prosperous than before?

Why, or why not?

I have other comments about that post, but I want to keep this focused on your moral choices.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ANOTHER deflection SECOND.

Nice deflection SECOND. YOU, SECOND. YOU. Will you endlessly drag the GOP and Trump and the Russian red herrings thru every criticism of the Dem Party?

I was asking about YOUR personal moral judgment, not about "the [stupid] American people" whom you constantly hide behind at the same time that you berate them.

So, let's keep this simple: Do you approve or disapprove of Democrats destroying nations abroad, with the result that those nations become more tyrannical and less prosperous than before?

Why, or why not?

I have other comments about that post, but I want to keep this focused on your moral choices.

I don't care. I picked that attitude up from the Jehovah's Witnesses. The world is all Satan's, all the time, and why should I care since Jehovah will very soon annihilate the wicked in Armageddon? (Hasn't happened, but maybe God overslept?) Jehovah's Witnesses saw all political parties and nations controlled by the devil.

And as a fact it is not the Democrats destroying. It is American generals in the Pentagon. And they are Republicans, which is not odd in the least, especially if you have listened to Trump's bellicose attitude toward Iran and N Korea and using A-bombs on "terrorists". Congress keeps force-feeding the Pentagon with too much ammo and the Pentagon uses the excess ammo violently. There is always another shipment coming next month of hellfire missiles and the Generals need to either find new targets or build new warehouses to store the excess missiles. The choice comes down to either new targets or shutdown the hellfire factory. http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/05/does-the-military-vote-really-lea
n-republican
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 8:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And as a fact it is not the Democrats destroying.-SECOND
More deflection.

Are you saying that President Obama had nothing to do with destroying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan?

That Presidents are just along for the ride?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 8:19 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And as a fact it is not the Democrats destroying.-SECOND
More deflection.

Are you saying that President Obama had nothing to do with destroying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan?

That Presidents are just along for the ride?

Yes, I am. When was the last time America had a declaration of War? 1942. No declarations since then. That would not be how a country runs when the people at the very top are actually making the topmost decisions.
www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/h_multi_sections_and_teasers/WarDecl
arationsbyCongress.htm


And are you saying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan are not Putin projects?

Why was Putin so visibly distressed by the killing of Gaddafi?
www.quora.com/Why-was-Putin-so-visibly-distressed-by-the-killing-of-Ga
ddafi


Putin saved my life, says ousted Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11692593/Vladimir-Put
in-saved-my-life-says-ousted-Ukrainian-president-Viktor-Yanukovych.html


Sudan president to visit Putin in Russia
www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/sudan-president-to-visit-puti
n-in-russia


Why Putin Is So Committed to Keeping Assad in Power
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/07/putins-russia-is-wedded-to-bashar-
al-assad-syria-moscow
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 8:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I don't care. I picked that attitude up from the Jehovah's Witnesses. The world is all Satan's, all the time, and why should I care since Jehovah will very soon annihilate the wicked in Armageddon? (Hasn't happened, but maybe God overslept?) Jehovah's Witnesses saw all political parties and nations controlled by the devil. - SECOND


Are you saying that "you don't care" that Democrats destroyed nations because the world is an evil place anyway?

If that's so, then why would you care about even lesser transgressions, like booting illegal aliens out of the country?

Quote:

And as a fact it is not the Democrats destroying.-SECOND

More deflection.
Are you saying that President Obama had nothing to do with destroying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan?
Rhat Presidents are just along for the ride? - SIGNY

Yes, I am. When was the last time America had a declaration of War? 1942. No declarations since then. That would not be how a country runs when the people at the very top are actually making the topmost decisions.

Well, all you've shown by THIS statement is that CONGRESS isn't doing its job, but is instead relying on the PRESIDENT (who is, after all COMMANDER IN CHIEF) to handle military actions.

So, you haven't carved out any space for Obama with this argument. In fact, all you've done is throw even more responsibility onto his shoulders. Also, this is counterfactual to known events, like Obama personally handling the secret drone "kill list" and agitating to destroy Libya.

Quote:

And are you saying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan are not Putin projects?- SECOND
Are you a complete lunatic? Was it Putin who destroyed these nations?

SECOND, here's a thought on your twisted logic: If Presidents are just along for the ride, then GWB can be forgiven for destroying Afghanistan and Iraq.

And if the world is an evil place anyway, why get upset about lesser evils and not greater ones?



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 8:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Well, all you've shown by THIS statement is that CONGRESS isn't doing its job, but is instead relying on the PRESIDENT (who is, after all COMMANDER IN CHIEF) to handle military actions.

So, you haven't carved out any space for Obama with this argument. In fact, all you've done is throw even more responsibility onto his shoulders. Also, this is counterfactual to known events, like Obama personally handling the secret drone "kill list" and agitating to destroy Libya.

Quote:

And are you saying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan are not Putin projects?- SECOND
Are you a complete lunatic? Was it Putin who destroyed these nations?


All the Pentagon has to do is say the word "appeasement" and a weak-minded President is off to war. That strategy has worked for the Pentagon since Truman.
www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2017/10/the_stigma
_around_appeasement_is_raising_the_risk_of_conflict_with_north.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 8:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So every President, from Truman through Trump, is a pawn of the Pentagon.

What about the CIA? Are Presidents pawns of the CIA?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:06 AM

ESSAYSOLUTION


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Tuesday, October 17, 2017 12:14 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So every President, from Truman through Trump, is a pawn of the Pentagon.

What about the CIA? Are Presidents pawns of the CIA?

If you had read the link, you would have seen that JFK did not fall for the nonsense spouted from the mouth of Air Force General Curtis LeMay during the Cuban Missile Crisis, as just one example. If you knew any American history, you'd know that Eisenhower did not fall for his Generals' empty headed nonsense, either. If you had watched the Vietnam War on PBS a couple weeks ago you would see LBJ and Nixon as morons anxiously waiting for their lying Generals to give them the promised victories. If you knew anything about Congress, you'd know that 90% of them always fall right in line whenever the Pentagon says that negotiation is appeasement. You can find hundreds of aggressive actions the USA has taken where the people at the top (Congress, White House) let the Pentagon decide what needs to be done because they don't have the self-confidence to rudely tell the Generals to shut the fuck up.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, October 18, 2017 6:51 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So every President, from Truman through Trump, is a pawn of the Pentagon.

What about the CIA? Are Presidents pawns of the CIA?

Why is the Washington Swamp's default position always to blowup another country or, when that seems too excessive, call the CIA? It is the way the Swamp makes decisions that is at fault.

A General recommends a military strike to the President to solve a little terror problem that popped like a pimple, but the General is unconcerned about alternatives because it is really the President's responsibility to decide. The President leans toward a wait and see response, but that General is very persuasive, completely confident in the USA's firepower, and has 30 years experience, while the President is not confident enough to wait when there is an instant solution with a hellfire missile. Then Congress will not make a declaration of war, but most of the individual Congressmen would not make a public stand against war, either. Then the electorate is fearful and wants to see action now, now, now. And then where is a Peace movement anywhere in the USA? If it is out there, it certainly keeps quiet.

If you run a meeting properly in the White House, a group decision can be wiser than the decision by anyone in the meeting. But Americans don't know how to run meetings properly, do they? Especially meetings about defense. Americans have made hundreds of bad decisions since WWII about when to use the military. I don't expect America to stop itself and start again thinking clearer. The Swamp keeps changing Presidents, but the same old faulty methods of making decisions are staying unchanged. I must remark that some Presidents use the methods worse than others:

Trump’s chief of staff, Gen. John Kelly, is acknowledging the president’s incompetence. At a White House briefing on Thursday, Kelly tried to reassure the press and the public about his boss. Instead, Kelly inadvertently confirmed that he and other aides are struggling to protect Trump from himself.

Here are three key moments from the briefing. (The following is actually a joke made about the briefing, but the real article has real examples.)

Reporter: "Mr. Kelly, is your job hard?" John Kelly: "Remember that movie where a monkey is playing with a detonator and the horrified people are trying to convince the monkey to give it back without pressing the button?”

More on John Kelly accidentally telling the Truth about Trump at
www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/10/john_kelly_a
ccidentally_told_the_truth_about_trump.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, October 19, 2017 12:04 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


And another thing: you give lots of rhetoric but nothing in terms of facts, numbers. How much did the Obama Administration spend on air travel from day one until the end of his administration? Do you have any factual information? Or are you just gonna give the usual InfoWars bullshit response?

Before you give me any of that Fake News crap, Price never denied that he didn't have those expenditures. But he did offer to pay for his "seat" on those jet planes that he chartered, which is really ridiculous. It's like ordering the best dinner at your daughter's wedding and making everyone pay, but the father of the bride offers to pay just for his plate.

Oh, and tell me the Alt-Right will travel by bicycle because they are not part of the "establishment" (what a load of crock).


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."

SGG

And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.

SGG

That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!


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