REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Corona Plague was Sweden’s controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy correct all along? Controversial COVID-19 No Lockdown strategy ‘vindicated’

POSTED BY: JAYNEZTOWN
UPDATED: Saturday, July 2, 2022 22:16
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2830
PAGE 1 of 2

Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:12 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Covid 19 coronavirus: Sweden's controversial virus strategy 'vindicated', say experts
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=
12364331

Coronavirus: Sweden bucks pandemic trend, still refuses to recommend face masks
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3099672/coronavirus-swe
den-bucks-global-trend-refusing-recommend-face


A herd immunity coronavirus strategy can be 'dangerous,' experts say
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-herd-immunity-coronavirus-s
trategy-can-be-dangerous-experts-say/ar-BB18ztE8?li=BBnba9O


Editorial: Coronavirus 'herd immunity' is just another way to say 'let people die'
https://news.yahoo.com/editorial-coronavirus-herd-immunity-just-100023
261.html


Denmark and Sweden responded differently to the pandemic. How did they fare?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/denmark-and-sweden-responded-differe
ntly-to-the-pandemic-how-did-they-fare


Sweden’s disaster in disguise
It is wrong to blame Sweden’s Covid-19 death toll entirely on its lighter lockdown and attempt at herd immunity.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/swedens-disaster-in-disguise

Trump adviser reportedly wants to let COVID-19 spread, repeat Sweden’s mistakes
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/trump-advisor-reportedly-pushi
ng-herd-immunity-idea-lambasted-by-experts
/


Johan Giesecke, Sweden’s “Herd Immunity” Strategist gets WHO promotion
https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/09/11/johan-giesecke-swedens-herd-
immunity-strategist-gets-who-promotion
/
Sweden's 'Herd Immunity' Mastermind Gets Promoted by WHO


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/sweden-embraced-herd-immunity
-while-the-uk-abandoned-the-idea-so-why-do-they-both-have-high-covid-19-fatality-rates/ar-BB18ocS2

?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pariah-state-no-longer-architec
t-swedens-covid-19-strategy-shows-lockdowns-werent


https://news.yahoo.com/why-a-herd-immunity-approach-to-covid-19-could-
be-a-deadly-disaster-153057073.html

,

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-controversial-
covid19-strategy-vindicated/news-story/bc4dcf3f8327c4a86734a4659e394ec5

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Their "strategy" would be considered "correct" only if you accept at least twice the number of deaths as similar nations (Norway, Finland) that followed different strategies.

There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.

The reason to slow down the viral spread wasn't to eradicate the virus, but to give the medical community a chance to catch up and develop effective treatments. (Development of a vaccine was never the endpoint, as it would take far too long, and economies couldn't endure lockdowns for that length of time.)

Now that many clinical trials have been conducted worldwide, nations can let up on lockdowns without an explosion of deaths.

As I have posted to SIX many times, it's always been a question of how much cost to save how many lives. Sweden simply decided not to expend much effort to save lives, sacrificing their old people in the process. And Swedes, in general, were OK with that.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Whatever.

The economy is trashed. Hope it was worth the old and dying people.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Whatever.

The economy is trashed. Hope it was worth the old and dying people.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIX, the economy was trashed over a decade ago. Once manufacturing and production went overseas, everyone was left with meaningless schiess jobs. Making beautiful cups of capuccino or running people around in your car ... or taking out a loan to get a meaningless college degree... doesn't count as an economy.

The virus just made ALL of our fundamental weaknesses - economic, healthcare, financial, social, governmental - tragically obvious.

And it was going to be a shit sandwich no matter what. Even nations far better-positioned than we were to handle the pandemic had problems, either with excess deaths or economic downturn, or both.

Deal with it and stop whining like a spoiled child.

How do we fix what's broken? Where do we go from here?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey Signy

For what it's worth, this is what I think's going on with Sweden.

If you look at Sweden and Washington State, they have something in common - their outbreaks, by random luck, started in nursing homes. If your general population isn't well-connected to your nursing homes, it's possible to defeat the virus by simply isolating that part of society even further and, basically, walling them off to meet their own fate. (And wall-off they did! Nursing home patients weren't given supplemental oxygen, or prone positioning, or sent to the hospital. Instead, they were given morphine and left to die from days-long increasing suffocation. As a result of the outbreak starting in nursing homes and being relatively confined to them, according to the most recent figures I could find from Sweden - May 2020 - nursing homes were responsible for 50% of COVID-19 deaths.) And, of course, as I have pointed out a number of times already, Sweden is a country structurally socially-distanced - a third work from home, half work from home in the cities, and most of Sweden's households are single-occupant younger generation ones (ie no multi-generational families in one home). In addition, Sweden has overall a far healthier population, with an obesity rate of only 21% as compared to the US rate of 36%, for example. Even more, Sweden isn't close to the levels needed for herd immunity.

That's as compared to say NYC where the virus emerged full-blown into the general population. You can get a feel for general population spread v nursing home spread by the fact that in the US 40% of deaths occurred in nursing homes as compared to Sweden's 50%. In the US, that's a difference of 20,000 deaths at this point, which is far beyond any random fluctuations and points to basic structural differences between the two countries. That, and the US as a whole has a far more unhealthy and vulnerable general population due to obesity, hypertension, etc, leading to an increased death rate in the general population overall.




ETA:

To discuss this further, graphs showing RATES - of new infections, of new deaths etc - are simply that: RATES.

Looking at rates alone can be very misleading. For example, if a country has 1 COVID-19 infection and gets another COVID-19 infection, the rate of new infections has gone up 100% !!! But the overall numbers are still low, and manageable.

OTOH if there are a million COVID-19 infections, and 20,000 more people get infected overnight, the rate of new infections is only 2% but (obviously) the situation is completely out of control.

So one needs to look at *new* infection and death rates in the context of total numbers and percent of population, to see what they do and don't mean.

Then there's the concept of R0. R0 is the natural, unmitigated increase of a contagion, that I'll call natural R0. And natural R0 relates to controlling the virus because herd immunity is calculated from it.

But I can see where what looks like the natural R0 might be different in different countries and in different groups in those countries. And that's not because the virus is different, or the people are different genetically or demoraphically, but because the patterns of people interacting are different. I'd expect that a society where people are traditionally isolated across the population would have a lower population R0, whereas the spread between people in contact with each other (families, tribes) would be much higher, all within the same population.

But apparent R0 is also tracked as a measure of success in controlling the spread. For example, if, through diligent efforts, the reported apparent R0 drops in a population, it's not (generally) because the virus changed. It's because people are changing the spread of the virus by changing their behavior. *The only thing holding the virus in check is the new behaviors.* Even at a lowered apparent R0, the virus still remains in the population, ready to bounce back should behaviors change to allow it.

So as has been repeated many times in many articles, the only way to *ultimately* control the virus is through herd immunity, either through infection, or vaccination. Well, there's also the option of eradication, like with smallpox.




How does all this relate to Sweden?

The natural R0 of SARS-CoV-2 is much higher than Sweden's apparent R0, and that has to do with Sweden's naturally socially isolated society. So the rates in Sweden are a misleading indicator for many reasons, which have to do with Sweden's luck in having the epidemic start in socially isolated nursing homes rather than exploding in the general population; as well as the natural existing social isolation of Sweden's society; and its demographics of having a younger, healthier population.

And that the RATES of new infections and new deaths is dropping doesn't address Sweden's to-date total or future total number of infected or dead. SARS-CoV-2 has already taken per capita many more lives in Sweden than its nearest Nordic neighbors. And it will ultimately persist in Sweden, as it will everywhere, until herd immunity or eradication is reached. Eventually COVID-19 will take its toll.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 12, 2020 6:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Well, see, what Sweden did with it's old people is exactly what SIX has been advocating all along: euthanasia. (Eu = good, thanas = death. Good death. Or maybe just death, without the good part of relief of suffering.)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 12, 2020 7:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


But, what goes around, comes around. And that's especially true for SARS-CoV-2. It's not going to happen to just 'them'. It'll come to you, too.

And that's what makes the new data about persistent, even permanent, heart and lung damage, even in young people, even in mild cases, so concerning. This could be the medical depth charge waiting to go off.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 12, 2020 8:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Oh. The horror. *yawn*

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 24, 2020 2:37 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Boris Johnson took advice from Sweden's no-lockdown scientist before rejecting tougher coronavirus restrictions
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/boris-johnson-took-advice-from-sw
edens-no-lockdown-scientist-before-rejecting-tougher-coronavirus-restrictions/ar-BB19nhrC


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.





I agree Sweden in its arrogance seems to have killed A LOT of its older people
but some are looking at the model again, maybe wondering about allowing it to spread in schools so stronger kids devolp immunity?

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:


And that's what makes the new data about persistent, even permanent, heart and lung damage, even in young people, even in mild cases, so concerning. This could be the medical depth charge waiting to go off.



This seems to be a worry, some people although healthy are not fully recovered 100% and they might have long lasting damage it seems.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 24, 2020 3:46 PM

REAVERFAN

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 19, 2020 12:01 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 20, 2020 7:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.

Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
I agree Sweden in its arrogance seems to have killed A LOT of its older people
but some are looking at the model again, maybe wondering about allowing it to spread in schools so stronger kids [develop] immunity?

Sweden has a lot of its elderly population naturally isolated from young people. (Whether you think that's a good social structure or not is up to you.) On top of that, after its care-home debacle, Sweden added a lot of extra protections for those centers.

Most countries have a lot of multi-generation dwellings, and elderly and vulnerable people (those who have other risk factors besides age) who will otherwise get exposed in the course of daily living, like going shopping.

To be a viable strategy, you need to protect the vulnerable from the rest of the population who you've decided to let get infected. If you don't have that, Sweden's model falls apart as a consideration.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 21, 2020 10:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Yes, there is something DIFFERENT about Sweden. Something that makes it NOT A GOOD MODEL for other nations. It's NOT their "herd immunity" program, it's the fact that they isolate their vulnerable elderly. Also, as a rule, their exposed population overall is fitter and healthier than .... say... the USA's. So even as Sweden's number of new cases is rising sharply their new deaths are at zero.

UNLIKE SWEDEN, in the USA, many young adults are livng with mom and/or dad. That means that the USA has multi-generational households. So even tho the United States is unwittingly, and slowly, following Sweden's example, with the # of new cases rising dramatically (like in Sweden) the #of new deaths isn't at "zero" and is unlikely to ever go to "zero".

As I was posting about the Swedish curve versus other nations, JSF said that I was forgetting age factor. I WAS NOT. The infection fatality rate and the case fatality among the over-70s is STILL VERY HIGH https://reason.com/2020/09/29/the-latest-cdc-estimates-of-covid-19s-in
fection-fatality-rate-vary-dramatically-with-age
/ and as far as I can tell has not budged downwards much. And there are still millions of vulnerable elderly people still around, so it's not as if the virus had already "reaped" the population of vulnerable and/or elderly.

So we still have plenty more deaths to go if we're to reach "herd immunity" (assuming that that ever happens and that SARS-CoV2 doesn't behave like an ordinary cold and infect people over and over.) because - unlike Sweden - we don't isolate our elderly from the virus, like they do.

In thinking about the different curves between #new infections versus #new deaths (or #new hospitalizations) and how they vary from nation to nation, I think the dramatic USA death spike at the beginning without the attendant dramatic infection spike was, as KIKI said, due to two things:

1) Lack of testing in the very beginning. Tests were is such short supply that even if you were suffering greatly with Covid at home, you didn't get tested. Imagine that the #new infections curve, at the very beginning of our epidemic, was 30-80X HIGHER than is portrayed, to account for the #of people not tested. The death to infection curves would look a lot more normal.

2) The infection hit the elderly cohort first.

There's no "X" immunity out there, and the virus is still the same and still whacking off the old and vulnerable. We have not reached "herd immunity" and are still about 90% away from it.

And so BTW is Sweden. They, too, are not anywhere near "herd immunity". Tellingly, SWEDEN has not done at recent random serological testing, but as of Mya, in Stockholm, with the highest infection rate, the serological tests indicate about 10%. Even if they've doubled that since then, they've still got about 80% to go

https://swprs.org/studies-on-covid-19-lethality/

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/17/covid-19-the-case-ag
ainst-herd-immunity
/

https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2020/10/12/letter-from-sweden-covid
-coronavirus/ideas/dispatches
/






-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 21, 2020 1:45 PM

REAVERFAN


The pursuit of herd immunity is a folly – so who's funding this bad science?
Links between an anti-lockdown declaration and a libertarian thinktank suggest a hidden agenda
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/covid-herd-immun
ity-funding-bad-science-anti-lockdown


As we approach one of the most important elections in the history of western democracy (itself described as a referendum on lockdown), we should be asking who funded this piece of political theatre, and for what purpose. The American Institute for Economic Research (AIER), where the declaration was signed, is a libertarian thinktank that is, in its own words, committed to “pure freedom” and wishes to see the “role of government … sharply confined”.

The institute has a history of funding controversial research – such as a study extolling the benefits of sweatshops supplying multinationals for those employed in them – while its statements on climate change largely downplay the threats of the environmental crisis. It is a partner in the Atlas network of thinktanks, which acts as an umbrella for free-market and libertarian institutions, whose funders have included tobacco firms, ExxonMobil and the Koch brothers. Our questions to the AIER about its relationship to the three signatories went unanswered, but it has posted a number of articles about the declaration and herd immunity on its website.

These are not the names one would associate with sound public health policies. But the trio of scientists who fronted the declaration were able to put the weight of the world’s most prestigious academic institutions behind their statements – Stanford, Harvard and Oxford – giving the declaration a sheen of respectability. The views of these scientists about lockdown and the pursuit of herd immunity are no doubt sincerely held (though, notably, not published in any peer-reviewed scientific articles), but they are falling into a trap set by the right.

Rightwing free-market foundations and institutions have long attempted to savage the public reputation of well-intentioned policies such as those aimed at curbing ecological threats and limiting smoking. Some of the tactics these organisations have used in the past are those we see at play in the Great Barrington declaration: discredit the scientific consensus, spread confusion about what the right response is and sow the seeds of doubt. It seems that lockdown restrictions aimed at bringing the virus under control are merely the latest target in this rightwing stealth campaign.

The science is clear: attaining herd immunity to coronavirus via uncontrolled infection is a fringe view, peddled by a minority with no evidence to back up their position. What’s less certain is the political and economic interests that lie behind this declaration. Let the debate begin on those.
---
Looks like Koch is up to his old tricks again.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 16, 2020 1:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...

Quote:

Sweden sets new ‘absolutely necessary’ Covid-19 restrictions, limits public gatherings to 8 people
16 Nov, 2020 15:29

The Swedish government has announced new coronavirus restrictions will come into force for four weeks to limit socializing in the run-up to Christmas, amid soaring infections and falling compliance with current guidelines.

In a digital press conference on Monday, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said there had been concerning developments in the spread of Covid-19 in Sweden and that new restrictions are needed.

From November 24, gatherings of more than eight people will be banned for a month. The previous limit was 300 people.

Lofven called on Swedes to do their “duty” and take “responsibility” in slowing the spread of the virus. He also told people not to attend parties or dinners and to refrain from visiting the gym or cinema.

“These are very intrusive measures that are unparalleled in our history, but they are absolutely necessary to limit the infection,” the PM said.

This spring we saw a great compliance. Advice and recommendations were enough for most people to keep their distance and cancel plans. Now compliance is lower.

Lofven said the ban on group gatherings was justified because of rising Covid-19 cases, and that the guidance outlined by the health authorities was no longer being taken as seriously by some people. As a result, Sweden needed to move from recommending social distancing to bans.

The PM reiterated his government’s strategy in holding off on the more strident measures put in place elsewhere in Europe, claiming “we don't believe in a total lockdown, we believe the measures being implemented in total will have an effect.”

Last week, the country moved to ban the sale of alcohol after 10pm.

Sweden received a lot of international attention earlier in the year when it chose not to lockdown the country in response to the first wave of the coronavirus, unlike many other nations.

However, subsequent research showed Sweden suffered a very large number of deaths, taking into account its population size. Neighboring countries, such as Finland, had been considerably more successful in preventing fatalities.

Research from John Hopkins University highlights that Finland has recorded 6.69 deaths per 100,000 from Covid-19, whilst Sweden has registered 60.53 fatalities per 100,000.


https://www.rt.com/news/506879-sweden-covid19-restrictions-infections-
groups
/
And indeed, according to divoc-91, on a per-capita basis Sweden is right up there with the USA.

https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 16, 2020 8:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...

Quote:

Sweden sets new ‘absolutely necessary’ Covid-19 restrictions, limits public gatherings to 8 people
... concerning developments in the spread of Covid-19 in Sweden and that new restrictions are needed

Apparently because ...
Quote:

compliance is lower.
Quote:

... subsequent research showed Sweden suffered a very large number of deaths, taking into account its population size. Neighboring countries, such as Finland, had been considerably more successful in preventing fatalities.

Research from John Hopkins University highlights that Finland has recorded 6.69 deaths per 100,000 from Covid-19, whilst Sweden has registered 60.53 fatalities per 100,000.

Quote:

And indeed, according to divoc-91, on a per-capita basis Sweden is right up there with the USA.
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/


Yeah, sorry to say I stopped looking at Sweden a long time ago when I realized they had a lot of deaths per capita and their model couldn't be applied very generally anyway.

But anyway, going to the 91-DIVOC link, it looks like Sweden's exponential 'cases' rise began roughly 77 days ago (11 weeks), which would put it at early September, when the weather starts to get cooler and school resumes.

And as night inevitably follows day, 'deaths' follows 'cases', though timing and intensity vary over place and time. Looking at Sweden's 91-DIVOC curves again, the exponential rise in 'deaths' started about 35 days ago (5 weeks).

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, November 17, 2020 3:48 PM

REAVERFAN


The right-wing case for Sweden’s pandemic response has completely collapsed
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/right-wing-case-swedens-pandemic
-response-has-completely-collapsed


Right-wing media have championed Sweden’s “low-scale” approach to the coronavirus pandemic as an alternative to stricter government mandates deployed in the United States. On Fox News, pundits argued that Sweden’s policies would allow its population to swiftly reach “herd immunity” and questioned why the U.S. was “locking down” instead. Now that country is rushing to tighten restrictions following rapid increases in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths that are far in excess of those of its neighbors.

Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven announced on Monday a reduction in the limit on public gatherings from 50 people to eight, citing lack of voluntary compliance with health recommendations to the public, after last week announcing plans to ban alcohol sales after 10 p.m. nationwide. “It is a clear and sharp signal to every person in our country as to what applies in the future,” he said at a press conference. “Don’t go to the gym, don’t go the library, don’t have dinner out, don’t have parties — cancel!”

The country’s COVID-19 caseload has spiked dramatically in recent weeks, vastly outpacing its neighbors and approaching that of the U.S., and hospitalizations and fatalities have inevitably followed.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 21, 2020 8:40 PM

REAVERFAN


Covid-19: Sweden's herd immunity strategy has failed, hospitals inundated
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-swedens-herd-immunity-strate
gy-has-failed-hospitals-inundated/N5DXE42OZJOLRQGGXOT7WJOLSU
/

With numbers exploding, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has been forced to swallow his pride and admit that he got it wrong.
---
Just like the US and Russia, except their leaders never admit when they're wrong.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:14 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.

Back at 'cha, Russian trolls.

It's fun to watch your fail trainwreck.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Monday, November 16, 2020 1:08 PM
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...

Monday, November 16, 2020 8:05 PM
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
it looks like Sweden's exponential 'cases' rise began roughly 77 days ago ... the exponential rise in 'deaths' started about 35 days ago ...

Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Thanks for agreeing with Signy and I.



FIFY

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Nope.

Remove the name Signy, since it makes no difference to the grammar.

What is grammatical? Thanks for agreeing with I? Or, thanks for agreeing with me?

https://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Between-%22I%22-and-%22Me%22-Correctly

But THANKS for correcting me, and being wrong! ( ... just because you're in a shit-fit about COVID-19. )

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


OK Karen.

Fuck your Covid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:29 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.





NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:28 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Who's scared of any of that?



Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 2:32 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




I apologize to everyone for starting a thread to keep up with facts about SARS-COV-2, and driving JACKAREN over the edge with too much reality.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 6:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.

Fuck your Covid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.

Stop being like WISHY, REAVERBOT, SECOND etc. You're better than that. Usually.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 6:56 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.

Fuck your Covid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.

Stop being like WISHY, REAVERBOT, SECOND etc. You're better than that. Usually.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Oh, the irony!



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:14 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Seems like its done, the admitted the flaw in this strategy

Although I would not be surprised to see if some of the West in some non-official off the record strategy, adopts some kind of herd strategy maybe for immunity among healthy people in the schools or University / College ... Sweden has reversed the decision maybe to save face after a year long disaster?

Why is Finland coping so well with the coronavirus crisis?
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-finland-sweden-role-model/a-55664117

Sweden reports record daily cases; Madrid to seal itself from other regions for 10 days
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/20/coronavirus-live-ne
ws-china-has-given-1m-people-sinopharm-vaccine-us-cdc-warns-against-thanksgiving-travel?page=with:block-5fb7da578f08f7cc12bd8cec


Sweden introduces tighter restrictions to halt surging coronavirus cases
https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/sweden-introduces-tighter-restric
tions-to-halt-surging-coronavirus-cases/ar-BB1aZF5k



NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 22, 2020 11:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.

Fuck your Covid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.




I've already said everything that needs to be said on the topic, and she's the one attacking me. Take a look at the timeline on the three threads regarding the issue last night. She threw the first insult.

Kiki doesn't need to be bringing that shit into the garden.

Covid is bullshit. She can keep her paranoid delusions in with the rest of the thrash threads on this board.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 12, 2021 2:52 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 12, 2021 3:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Going back to the trusty 91-DIVOC site, the most useful metric I can think of is the total per capita deaths, since we're talking about the effect of a policy over time.

There, Sweden is in the global top 25 though at the bottom of that ranking. Being in the top global 25 however isn't a thing to be proud of.

At a relative scale of 138.1, it's faring better than the US at 170.5, but worse than Argentina at 127.6

But Sweden has many demographic advantages not shared by many other countries, especially the fact that 1/3 of its population lives in single-person housing and many of its elderly live in assisted living or long-term care facilities. *And once those facilities were locked-down, it's fatality rate improved.) So there's far less overall inter-generational transmission from multiple people/ generations living together. In addition it has a relatively young population of relatively fit people, and a world-class comprehensive healthcare system.

To better gauge Sweden's success - or failure - you need to compare it to other similar countries like Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Iceland.

Sweden 131.8
Denmark 41.9
Finland 15.7
Norway 12.7
Iceland 7.96

Denmark seems to suffer from its close association with the EU, while Iceland has the additional advantage of being an island, and easily isolated.

Anyway, by the metrics of comparison to similar countries, Sweden's policy looks more like a failure than a success.

http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, October 28, 2021 2:24 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Oct 13, 2021 numbers
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 1,466 (14,926) 799* 24 *according to SVT.se
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/senaste-nytt-om-coronaviruset
Denmark: 460 (2,676) 767* 16 *of 56,271 tests (1.36%);
Fully vacc. 4,393,002 (75.09% of pop.), 1st dose: 4,464,785 (76.32%)
Finland: 200 (1,109) 502 36
Norway: 161 (884) 363 16
Iceland: 96 (33) 48 1 - Time to discuss further relaxation, PM says

Sweden extends pause of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine in young people under 30 due to concerns the shot causes rare heart inflammation
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10116783/Sweden-extends-pau
se-Modernas-COVID-19-vaccine-young-people-30.html

Sweden, Norway Lifting COVID Restrictions Spark Reactions as Pundits Want End to Mandates
https://www.newsweek.com/sweden-norway-lifting-covid-restrictions-spar
k-reactions-pundits-want-end-mandates-1634916



History of the Corona virus or Covid -19 in Sweden

Quote:

16 January, the Public Health Agency of Sweden issued a press release highlighting the discovery of the novel coronavirus, and the agency monitoring the situation. The risk of spread to Sweden was described as "very low" as there was yet no evidence that the virus could spread between humans, but they recommended that individuals developing cough or fever after visiting Wuhan should seek medical care, and asked for healthcare professionals to be observant.

On 31 January 2020, the first Swedish case was confirmed in a woman in Jönköping who had travelled to Sweden directly from Wuhan, China, on 24 January 2020. The case was fully isolated and there are no reports of further spread. It is believed that the virus could have reached Sweden as early as December 2019, when several individuals sought care at a primary care clinic in Svärdsjö, Falun Municipality, with signs of respiratory disease, as all of them had been in contact with an individual with a recent travel history to Wuhan, and later tested positive for antibodies against the disease. There is however no evidence of further spread in connection with those early cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden#Outbreak_of_
a_novel_coronavirus_disease

The second confirmed case was diagnosed at Sahlgrenska University Hospital, Gothenburg, on 26 February 2020, after a man who had recently returned from northern Italy following the outbreak in the country had developed symptoms. With five additional cases confirmed on 27 February, the Public Health Agency put out a statement that these cases were all related to travel to high-risk zones and that there was no evidence of community transmission. Disease control measures, including extensive contact tracing, turned up over 200 travel-related cases in the following weeks, all with connection to confirmed cases or travel to high risk regions. Many of those who tested positive for the virus during this early stage of the outbreak in Sweden had been infected while on vacation in Italy during the one-week spring break in late February.

During the four-week period from February to March in which the spring break takes place in different areas of Sweden, around one million Swedes (about one tenth of the total population) had travelled abroad. Testing was initially primarily done on individuals who had developed symptoms after travelling from the areas hardest hit by the outbreak, such as China, Iran, northern Italy, Tyrol and South Korea, or those with pneumonia of unknown cause. Subsequent whole genome sequencing studies carried out by the Public Health Agency proved that disease control measures including isolation and contact tracing had been largely successful in preventing the infection to spread from Italy.



Notable Swedes who have died of Covid-19

Radio presenter Kerstin Behrendtz died on 28 March 2020 from COVID-19. She had been diagnosed with the disease on 23 March 2020, and had been ill since about a week before that with cold symptoms. She spent a week in intensive care receiving respiratory care. She was 69 years old when she died.

Photographer Tomas Oneborg died on 29 March 2020 from COVID-19. Oneborg had developed cold symptoms in early March and died in his home at the age of 62. He had worked for the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet for 34 years, and was the first press photographer in place after the terrorist attacks on Drottninggatan in Stockholm in 2017.

Television and radio host Adam Alsing died on 15 April 2020 from COVID-19 after having suffered from the disease for several weeks. He was 51, and his death raised awareness in Sweden of the dangers of the disease, since he was comparatively young and had no known risk factors.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 5, 2021 2:26 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Police in Brussels crackdown on demonstrators protesting against Covid mandates.
https://twitter.com/ElectionWiz/status/1467517653203968001

Sweden confirms first case of Omicron coronavirus variant
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/271831652/sweden-confirms-first-ca
se-of-omicron-coronavirus-variant


Norway versus Sweden: A case study in COVID-19 response
https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/norway-and-sweden/125378/

Sweden ready to reimpose Covid-19 measures
https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/sweden-ready-to-reimpose-covid-19-mea
sures

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 5, 2021 4:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


In the end, you need to look at results.

Sweden's total number of deaths per 100,000 is 150.

In comparison, Norway (Sweden's closest demographic, cultural and geographic neighbor) the total number of deaths per 100,000 is less than 25.

And in the end, Sweden had to change its policy anyway.

And SIX, speaking from some alternate universe of his own creation, will once again insist that "nobody ever died of Covid".



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 5, 2021 4:29 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And SIX, speaking from some alternate universe of his own creation, will once again insist that "nobody ever died of Covid".




It's this universe. There is no Mandela effect happening.

You'll see.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 5, 2021 5:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And SIX, speaking from some alternate universe of his own creation, will once again insist that "nobody ever died of Covid".




It's this universe. There is no Mandela effect happening.

You'll see.



Uh huh. This is the universe where Trump won the election.
And there's no such thing as HIV either.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 5, 2021 9:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And SIX, speaking from some alternate universe of his own creation, will once again insist that "nobody ever died of Covid".




It's this universe. There is no Mandela effect happening.

You'll see.



Uh huh. This is the universe where Trump won the election.
And there's no such thing as HIV either.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake




Trump did win the election. Mail-in fraud election was fraud. I see you using the "*" when referring to Biden* all the time too.

Nobody I have ever known in my life knows anybody who has ever had AIDS. It was bullshit to scare kids.

Covid-19 is a fucking joke. You all are the punchline.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 6, 2021 11:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


I know someone who has AIDS. He was a co-worker. In fact, he caught when I was still working, and I talked to him about how he got it (being foolish in SF), his initial symptoms and subsequent treatment. (People used to talk to me about all kinds of things ... their marriage, their love-lives, politics, money... I'm pretty unflappable so I heard all kinds of stuff.)

AFA Covid is concerned, my across-the-street neighbors had it and recovered, but two people who I knew personally ... met and talked to face-to-face at one time ... died of it. One was elderly but still functioning ... heart, kidneys, liver etc all functioning and in no danger of immediate death, but frail. The other was a robust home health aide, younger than me, very opionated and energetic, who (btw) refused to wear a mask or take other precautions. She was a denialist, like you. Well,she didn't believe in Covid, but I guess it believed in her! And, of course, I know plenty of people who know people who died of it, so I heard about it second-hand from neighbors etc.

Since you hardly know anybody and are practically a recluse, don't make your lack of personal experience be the foundation of your knowldege, bc then you're working from an extremely limited set.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 6, 2021 11:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Don't pull that bullshit on me about my reclusive lifestyle NOW.

I wasn't always this way. Far from it, in fact. And I have branched out significantly since I sobered up.

That is not an argument.

AIDS isn't real. Nobody dies of Covid-19.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 6, 2021 11:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


I'm not making fun of your recluseive lifestyle. You KNEW more people, but ... did you keep up with them? Stay in touch since you left work?

Your contacts since Covid began have been very limited. And, really, do you talk about anything in depth with anyone?

That was the great thing about work: I got a chance to speak with people from- literally- all over the world. All kinds. The one thing they had in common was that they were all educated in science, engineering, or law. Kept up with a lot of them Keep up with the family, too. Chat with ALL of my neighbors when I'm out walking the dog, and with other dog-walkers, living nearby or not. Chat with the grocery clerks.

Not by nature sociable, but I had to become since I was a supervisor (Can't be a good supervisor and a total introvert at the same time!)

I hear all kinds of things.

But the people that I can attest who died of Covid I knew PERSONALLY. The people with AIDS, I know PERSONALLY.

Anyway, you've never seen an electron, but it's still a useful concept, right?

Don't limit yourself to such a narrow scope, especially bc of ideology. It's one thing to be a skeptic it's another to be completely closed minded.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 6, 2021 4:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You know people who got sick, certainly. You know people who died, certainly.

You didn't know anybody with AIDS because AIDS is not real.

You didn't know anybody who died of Covid-19 because nobody dies of Covid-19.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 6, 2021 5:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



/snicker

"Just like all of the other bullshit you've posted for years, saying something a million times doesn't make it true."

That's a quote from you.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 6, 2021 9:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You know people who got sick, certainly. You know people who died, certainly.

You didn't know anybody with AIDS because AIDS is not real.

You didn't know anybody who died of Covid-19 because nobody dies of Covid-19.


On what do you base this?

Do you accept that people die of "the flu" every year? Even if it's not very common, do you think that happens?

Do you accept that "the flu", which mutates every year or even every month, can at times achieve a particularly deadly form, like the Spanish flu of 1917-1918?

So what puts THIS virus in such a special category? Because it's a "coronavirus"?

Do you accept that this particular virus may have been deliberately modified to make it more lethal? And that therefore it may not act like "just a cold" but like something else?

AFAIK there is no such thing as a completely innocuous or completely deadly virus. People have even recovered from HIV and Ebola, and people HAVE died of "the common cold". It's matter of degree, not absolutes.

So if there is a formerly healthy person and they catch Covid and die... how did they die? What's the mechanism? Is it just coincidence?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 6, 2021 9:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Speaking of deliberate modification...

Quote:

On The Quasispecies Origins Of SARS-CoV-2's Enigmatic Furin-Cleavage Site
Monday, Dec 06, 2021 - 09:00 PM

Via Harvard2TheBigHouse.Substack.com,
A Grin Without a Cat

Bottling-Up the Quasispecies Origins of SARS-CoV-2’s Enigmatic Furin-Cleavage Site.

From the co-author of the first peer-reviewed paper examining a laboratory origin for SARS-CoV-2, as well as its addendum, which formally linked the H1N1 Spanish Flu pandemic strain release of 1977 to gain-of-function research.

Although it started as a point of obscure technical reference back in early 2020 as our ongoing pandemic was still in the early stages of spreading its now-ubiquitous wings, it’s now nearly two years later and debates are still raging about the origins and relevance of SARS-CoV-2’s notorious furin-cleavage site, or FCS.

This four-base amino-acid insert immediately drew the attention of the Sirotkin & Sirotkin father-and-son team as they were working on their paper covering the possible laboratory-engineered origins of the COVID-19 Pandemic, which was submitted back in April 2020, long before anyone else was discussing any of this with meaningful scientific detail:

The genetic signatures in question includes two distinctive features possessed by SARS-CoV-2's spike-protein: the unique sequence in the receptor binding domain (RBD), a region known to be critical for SARS-CoV-2's utilization of human angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE2), which is the cell surface receptor used by both SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 for fusion with target cells and subsequent cell entry. The second feature is the presence of a polybasic furin cleavage site, which is also known as a multibasic cleavage site (MBS)—a four amino acid insertion with limited sequence flexibility—within the coronavirus's novel spike-protein, that is not found in SARS-CoV or other lineage B coronaviruses.

This furin cleavage site, which is poly or multibasic by definition since its composed of multiple basic amino acids, is an important virulence feature observed to have been acquired by fusion proteins of avian influenza viruses and Newcastle Disease Virus either grown under experimental conditions or isolated from commercial animal farms—settings that mimic the conditions of serial laboratory passage.

In fact, no influenza virus with a furin cleavage site has ever been found [to originate] in nature, and it is a feature that has been thoroughly investigated in the literature since it appears to allow the influenza viruses that carry it to establish a systemic multiorgan infection using different cell types including nerve cells, is correlated with high pathogenicity, and also plays a key role in overcoming the species barrier.

More generally, despite the fact that not all serially passed viruses have demonstrated an increase in pathogenicity, the fact remains that every highly pathogenic avian influenza virus, defined by having a furin cleavage site, has either been found on commercial poultry farms that create the pseudo-natural conditions necessary for serial passage, or created in laboratories with gain-of-function serial passage experiments.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 6, 2021 10:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You know people who got sick, certainly. You know people who died, certainly.

You didn't know anybody with AIDS because AIDS is not real.

You didn't know anybody who died of Covid-19 because nobody dies of Covid-19.


On what do you base this?

Do you accept that people die of "the flu" every year? Even if it's not very common, do you think that happens?



Yes. Of course. People die of the flu.

Except for 2020. Nobody died of the flu in 2020 if you believe the labcoats. It was all Covid-19 deaths.

Quote:

Do you accept that "the flu", which mutates every year or even every month, can at times achieve a particularly deadly form, like the Spanish flu of 1917-1918?


Yes I do. I can't speak for 1917. That might be just as much of a myth as anything else we read in history books, and easily politicized today just like everything else is.

It makes no sense for a virus to mutate into a more deadly form. I'm sure it happens, because they're dumb, simple little things... but those mutations die off quickly after killing their hosts too quickly and make room for the ones that play nicer with the host bodies.

Also, in 1920, the average life expectancy in America was only 53.9 years. I doubt very much that the Spanish Flu would have done nearly as well as it supposedly did 100 years ago if it were what we were dealing with now.

Quote:

So what puts THIS virus in such a special category? Because it's a "coronavirus"?


Nope. It's because of the Media lies, the Establishment lies, the medical "professional" lies, the billions upon billions of dollars that have been made (not just by the medical and pharmaceutical communities, politicians, and the media, but also big businesses worldwide that have all but destroyed what's left of small businesses), and the tyranny of varying degrees under every rock.

Mostly the tyranny.

Quote:

Do you accept that this particular virus may have been deliberately modified to make it more lethal? And that therefore it may not act like "just a cold" but like something else?


I'm more worried that the "cure" has.

Quote:

AFAIK there is no such thing as a completely innocuous or completely deadly virus. People have even recovered from HIV and Ebola, and people HAVE died of "the common cold". It's matter of degree, not absolutes.

So if there is a formerly healthy person and they catch Covid and die... how did they die? What's the mechanism? Is it just coincidence?



Nobody who is completely healthy died WITH Covid.

Nobody of any varying degree of health died OF Covid.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 7, 2021 12:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

6IXSTRINGJACK:
You know people who got sick, certainly. You know people who died, certainly.
You didn't know anybody with AIDS because AIDS is not real.
You didn't know anybody who died of Covid-19 because nobody dies of Covid-19.

SIGNY: On what do you base this?
Do you accept that people die of "the flu" every year? Even if it's not very common, do you think that happens?

SIX: Yes. Of course. People die of the flu.

So even viruses don't have a high fatality rate do kill people.

How? How do these viruses kill some people?

Quote:

SIX: Except for 2020. Nobody died of the flu in 2020 if you believe the labcoats. It was all Covid-19 deaths.
I've never read that, and I follow this pretty closely. I think you're making shit up again, just like you "misquote" KIKI.

Quote:

SIGNY: Do you accept that "the flu", which mutates every year or even every month, can at times achieve a particularly deadly form, like the Spanish flu of 1917-1918?

SIX: Yes I do. I can't speak for 1917. That might be just as much of a myth as anything else we read in history books, and easily politicized today just like everything else is.

it's too bad you're so ignorant of history, bc you'd know that this has been a regular feature of history across the world, long before it could have ever been politicized bc ofCovid.

Quote:

SIX: It makes no sense for a virus to mutate into a more deadly form.
You expect viruses, and evolution, to make sense? Evolution is all about randomness and selection, not purpose and goals.

Quote:

SIX: I'm sure it happens, because they're dumb, simple little things... but those mutations die off quickly after killing their hosts too quickly and make room for the ones that play nicer with the host bodies.
You don't see the Spanish flu around anymore, do you?

Quote:

SIX: Also, in 1920, the average life expectancy in America was only 53.9 years. I doubt very much that the Spanish Flu would have done nearly as well as it supposedly did 100 years ago if it were what we were dealing with now.
huh?

Quote:

SIGNY: So what puts THIS virus in such a special category? Because it's a "coronavirus"?

SIX: Nope. It's because of the Media lies, the Establishment lies, the medical "professional" lies, the billions upon billions of dollars that have been made (not just by the medical and pharmaceutical communities, politicians, and the media, but also big businesses worldwide that have all but destroyed what's left of small businesses), and the tyranny of varying degrees under every rock.

So, you're letting your view of reality be determined by the media?? Bc you're so oppositional?

Quote:

SIGNY: Do you accept that this particular virus may have been deliberately modified to make it more lethal? And that therefore it may not act like "just a cold" but like something else?

SIX: I'm more worried that the "cure" has.

In other words, you're so hyper focused on ancillary anxieties that you can't fully evaluate the virus itself.

Quote:

SIGNY: AFAIK there is no such thing as a completely innocuous or completely deadly virus. People have even recovered from HIV and Ebola, and people HAVE died of "the common cold". It's matter of degree, not absolutes.

So if there is a formerly healthy person and they catch Covid and die... how did they die? What's the mechanism? Is it just coincidence?

SIX: Nobody who is completely healthy died WITH Covid.
Nobody of any varying degree of health died OF Covid.

Because....HOW? Yanno, repeating something a million times doesn't make it true. And you seem to be avoiding the question.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 7, 2021 12:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You're running around in circles trying to justify the fact that you got a vaccine and you got your daughter vaccinated.

At the end of the day, one of two things will come of that.

I hope you made the right choice and really, truly balanced out the ROI of making such a rash decision before any real testing had been done.


I can no longer have any legitimate conversation with you on this issue because you put your own life and the life of your daughter's in the hands of people who you won't deny lie to you every day about any topic outside of this one particular virus. You have to believe that you made the correct decision now.

Good luck to the both of you.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 7, 2021 4:47 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



You're so hyper-focused on "the media" you can't seem to understand that there's literally decades on decades and an entire planet-full of information out there that isn't "the media".

And basic biology books written before you were born, with information that's still valid today.

And decades of research on up to the present from literally around the globe that has nothing to do with "the media".

Or the death certificates of hundreds of thousands of people written by tens of thousands of doctors who, believe it or not, are NOT all completely and totally being run like robots by a global conspiracy.

Or the experiences of personal friends, family, and acquaintances, none of whom are "the media", some going back decades before the supposed global "the media" conspiracy got going, on up to the present.


And these things don't cease to exist just because you refuse to recognize reality.


Just like all of the other bullshit you've posted for years, saying something a million times doesn't make it true.

That's a quote from you.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL