REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

How Trump split the left

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, June 27, 2021 14:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 970
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, June 25, 2021 3:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

What Happened to Glenn Greenwald?
Trump happened – and put the left’s priorities to the test
Jonathan Cook • June 22, 2021 • 4,100 Words • 117 Comments • Reply

There’s been a new public fracturing of the intellectual left, typified by an essay last week from Nathan J Robinson, editor of the small, independent, socialist magazine Current Affairs, accusing Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi of bolstering the right’s arguments. He is the more reasonable face of what seems to be a new industry arguing that Greenwald is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, setting the right’s agenda for it.

Under the title “How to end up serving the right”, Robinson claims that Greenwald and Taibbi, once his intellectual heroes, are – inadvertently or otherwise – shoring up the right’s positions and weakening the left. He accuses them of reckless indifference to the consequences of criticising a “liberal” establishment and making common cause with the right’s similar agenda. Both writers, argues Robinson, have ignored the fact that the right wields the greatest power in our societies.

This appears to be a continuation of a fight Robinson picked last year with Krystal Ball, the leftwing, former co-host of a popular online politics show called The Rising. Robinson attacked her for sharing her platform with the conservative pundit Saagar Enjeti. Ball and Enjeti have since struck out on their own, recently launching a show called Breaking Points.

Notably, Greenwald invited Robinson on to his own YouTube channel to discuss these criticisms of Ball when Robinson first made them. In my opinion, Robinson emerged from that exchange looking more than a little bruised.

As with his clash with Ball, there are problems with Robinson’s fuzzy political definitions.

Somewhat ludicrously in his earlier tussle, he lumped together Enjeti, a thoughtful rightwing populist, with figures like Donald Trump and Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro, both of them narcissists and authoritarians (of varying degrees of competence) that have donned the garb of populism, as authoritarians tend to do.

Similarly, Robinson’s current disagreements with Greenwald and Taibbi stem in part from a vague formulation – one he seems partially to concede – of what constitutes the “left”. Greenwald has always struck me more as a progressive libertarian than a clearcut socialist like Robinson. Differences of political emphasis and priorities are inevitable. They are also healthy.

And much of Robinson’s essay is dedicated to cherrypicking a handful tweets from Greenwald and Taibbi to make his case. Greenwald, in particular, is a prolific tweeter. And given the combative and polarising arena of Twitter, it would be quite astonishing had he not occasionally advanced his arguments without the nuance demanded by Robinson.

Overall, Robinson’s case against both Greenwald and Taibbi is far less persuasive than he appears to imagine.

Stifling coverage

But the reason I think it worth examining his essay is because it demonstrates a more fundamental split on what – for the sake of convenience – I shall treat as a broader intellectual left that includes Robinson, Greenwald and Taibbi.

Robinson tries to prop up his argument that Greenwald, in particular, is betraying the left and legitimising the right with an argument from authority, citing some of the left’s biggest icons.

Two, Naomi Klein and Jeremy Scahill, are former journalist colleagues of Greenwald’s at the Intercept, the billionaire-financed online news publication that he co-founded and eventually split from after it broke an editorial promise not to censor his articles.

Greenwald fell out with the editors in spectacularly public fashion late last year after they stifled his attempts to write about the way Silicon Valley and liberal corporate media outlets – not unlike the Intercept – were colluding to stifle negative coverage of Joe Biden in the run-up to the presidential election, in a desperate bid to ensure he beat Trump.

Greenwald’s public statements about his reasons for leaving the Intercept exposed what were effectively institutional failings there – and implicated those like Scahill and Klein who had actively or passively colluded in the editorial censorship of its co-founder. Klein and Scahill are hardly dispassionate commentators on Greenwald when they accuse him of “losing the plot” and “promoting smears”. They have skin in the game.

But Robinson may think his trump (sic) card is an even bigger left icon, Noam Chomsky, who is quoted saying of Greenwald: “He’s a friend, has done wonderful things, I don’t understand what is happening now… I hope it will pass.”

The problem with this way of presenting Greenwald is that the tables can be easily turned. Over the past few years, my feeds – and I am sure others’ – have been filled with followers asking versions of “What happened to Chomsky?” or “What happened to Amy Goodman and Democracy Now?”

The answer to these very reductive questions – what happened to Greenwald and what happened to Chomsky – is the same. Trump happened. And their different responses are illustrative of the way the left polarised during the Trump presidency and how it continues to divide in the post-Trump era.

Authoritarian thinking

Robinson treats the Trump factor – what we might term Post-Traumatic Trump Disorder – as though it is irrelevant to his analysis of Greenwald and Taibbi. And yet it lies at the heart of the current tensions on the left. In its simplest terms, the split boils down to the question of how dangerous Trump really was and is, and what that means for the left in terms of its political responses.

Unlike Robinson, I don’t think it is helpful to personalise this. Instead, we should try to understand what has happened to left politics more generally in the Trump and post-Trump era.

Parts of the left joined liberals in becoming fixated on Trump as a uniquely evil and dangerous presence in US politics. Robinson notes that Trump posed an especial and immediate threat to our species’ survival through his denial of climate change, and on these grounds alone every effort had to be made to remove him.

Others on the left recoil from this approach. They warn that, by fixating on Trump, elements of the left have drifted into worryingly authoritarian ways of thinking – sometimes openly, more often implicitly – as a bulwark against the return of Trump or anyone like him.

The apotheosis of such tendencies was the obsession, shared alike by liberals and some on the left, with Russiagate. This supposed scandal highlighted in stark fashion the extreme dangers of focusing on a single figure, in Trump, rather than addressing the wider, corrupt political structures that produced him.

It was not just the massive waste of time and energy that went into trying to prove the unprovable claims of Trump’s collusion with the Kremlin – resources that would have been far better invested in addressing Trump’s real crimes, which were being committed out in the open.

It was that the politically tribal Trump-Russia narrative engulfed and subverted a meaningful politics of resistance. It snared those like Wikileaks founder Julian Assange who had been trying to break open the black box of western politics. It fortified the US security services after they had been exposed by Edward Snowden’s revelations as secretly and illegally conducting mass spying on the public’s communications. It breathed a dangerous credibility into the corrupt Democratic party machine after its embarrassment over engineering Hillary Clinton’s presidential candidacy. And it revived the fortunes of an increasingly discredited liberal media that quickly won large ratings by promoting fabulists like Rachel Maddow.

Those on the left who tried to challenge Russiagate in order to focus on real political issues were stigmatised as Putin’s puppets, their arguments were labelled “fake news”, and they were gradually algorithmed into social media purdah.

Under the Russiagate banner, parts of the left were soon rallying, however reluctantly, behind corporate champions of the planet-destroying status quo.

But it was even worse than that. The fixation on the obviously hollow Russiagate narrative by the Democratic party, the corporate media, Silicon Valley, and the US intelligence agencies served to prove to wide swaths of conservative America that Trump was right when he berated a “liberal” establishment for being invested only in its own self-preservation and not caring about ordinary Americans.

Russiagate did not just divide the left, it dramatically strengthened the right.

Free speech dangers

Robinson knows all this, at least intellectually, but perhaps because Trump looms so large in his thinking he does not weigh the significance in the same terms as Greenwald and Taibbi.

The problem with characterising Trump as a supremely evil figure is that all sorts of authoritarian political conclusions flow from that characterisation – precisely the political conclusions we have seen parts of the left adopting. Robinson may not expressly share these conclusions but, unlike Greenwald and Taibbi, he has largely ignored or downplayed the threat they present.

If Trump poses a unique danger to democracy, then to avoid any recurrence:

We are obligated to rally uncritically, or at least very much less critically, behind whoever was selected to be his opponent. Following Trump’s defeat, we are dutybound to restrain our criticisms of the winner, Joe Biden, however poor his performance, in case it opens the door to Trump, or someone like Trump, standing for the presidency in four years’ time.
We must curb free speech and limit the free-for-all of social media in case it contributed to the original surge of support for Trump, or created the more febrile political environment in which Trump flourished.
We must eradicate all signs of populism, whether on the right or the left, because we cannot be sure that in a battle of populisms the left will defeat the right, or that leftwing populism cannot be easily flipped into rightwing populism.
And most importantly, we must learn to distrust “the masses” – those who elected Trump – because they have demonstrated that they are too easily swayed by emotion, prejudice and charisma. Instead, we must think in more traditional liberal terms, of rule by technocrats and “experts” who can be trusted to run our societies largely in secret but provide a stability that should keep any Trumps out of power.

Greenwald and Taibbi have been focusing precisely on this kind of political fallout from the Trump presidency. And it looks suspiciously like this, as much as anything else, is what is antagonising Robinson and others.

Greenwald’s own experiences at the Intercept underline his concerns. It was not just that Greenwald was forced out over his efforts late last year to talk about the documents found on Hunter Biden’s laptop and the questions they raised about his father, the man who was about to become US president. It was that the Intercept stopped Greenwald from talking about how the entire liberal corporate media and all of Silicon Valley were actively conspiring to crush any attempt to talk about those documents and their significance – and not on the basis of whether they were genuine or not.

Greenwald walked away from what amounted to a very well-paid sinecure at the Intercept to highlight this all-out assault on democratic discourse and the election process – an assault whose purpose was not the search for truth but to prevent any danger of Trump being re-elected. By contrast, in a tweet thread that has not aged well, Robinson along with many others quibbled about the specifics of Greenwald’s case and whether it amounted to censorship, very much ignoring the wood for the trees.

Now that @ggreenwald's Biden article has been published, the relevant question for evaluating whether the Intercept was justified in refusing to publish it is: are its claims false/insufficiently supported? How did it fall short of publication standards? https://t.co/5CwJT72XpC

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) October 29, 2020

Greenwald and Taibbi talk so much about the role of the traditional media and Silicon Valley because they understand that the media’s professed liberalism – claims to be protecting the rights of women, ethnic minorities and the trans community – is a very effective way of prettifying corporate authoritarianism, an authoritarianism the left claims to be fighting but has readily endorsed once it has been given a liberal makeover.

It is not that the “liberal” establishment – the corporate media, Silicon Valley, the intelligence services – is actually liberal. It is that liberals have come increasingly to identify with that establishment as sharing their values.

For this reason, Robinson obscures the real nature of the divide on the left when he discusses the power of the Supreme Court. He criticises Greenwald and Taibbi for ignoring the fact that the right exercises absolute power through its packing of the court with rightwing judges. He accuses them of instead unfairly emphasising the power exercised by this “liberal” establishment.

But despite Robinson’s claims, the Supreme Court very obviously doesn’t wield “all the power”, even with its veto over legislation and actions of the administration. Because an even greater power is invested in those institutions that can control the public’s ability to access and interpret information; to find out what is being done in the shadows; and to make choices based on that information, including about who should represent them.

Information control and narrative management are the deepest forms of power because they shape our ability to think critically, to resist propaganda, to engage in dialogue and to forge alliances that might turn the tide against a profoundly corrupt establishment that includes both the Supreme Court and Silicon Valley. Robinson ignores this point in his essay, even though it is fundamental to assessing “What happened to Greenwald and Taibbi?”. A commitment to keeping channels of information open and ensuring dialogue continues, even in the post-Trump era, is what happened to them.

Hard drives smashed

The crux of Robinson’s argument is that Greenwald and Taibbi have made a pact with the devil, gradually chaining their more progressive credentials to a Trumpian rightwing populism to defeat the “liberal” establishment. That, Robinson suggests, will only strengthen and embolden the right, and ensure the return of a Trump.

The evidence Robinson and others adduce for Greenwald’s betrayal, in particular, are his now regular appearances on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show, where Greenwald and Carlson often find common ground against the authoritarian excesses of that same “liberal” establishment.

That should not surprise us. Carlson and the right have an interest in the break-up of Silicon Valley’s tech monopolies that favour a Democratic Party authoritarianism over their own Republican Party authoritarianism. Greenwald has an interest in the break-up of Silicon Valley’s tech monopolies too but for a very different reason: because he is against monopolies designed to keep the public propagandised and manipulated.

Opposing them both is an authoritarian “liberal” establishment – the Democratic party, traditional corporate media, Silicon Valley, the intelligence services – that have every interest in perpetuating their control over the tech monopolies.

Robinson contrasts Greenwald’s behaviour to his own clean hands as the editor of the small socialist magazine, Current Affairs.

But we should note that Robinson has compromised himself far more than he cares to admit. For several years he used the liberal corporate outlet of the Guardian as a platform from which to present a watered-down version of his own socialist politics. To do so, he had to ignore the paper’s appalling record of warmongering abroad and of subverting socialists like Jeremy Corbyn at home.
Subscribe

Robinson finally came unstuck when a Guardian editor effectively fired him for writing a satirical tweet about the huge sums of aid given by the US to Israel each year to kill and maim Palestinians under occupation and destroy their infrastructure.

My latest: In sacking a columnist over a tweet criticising US military aid to Israel, the Guardian wasn't stopping 'antisemitism'. It was policing speech to stop the left drawing attention to the continuing colonial nature of western societies https://t.co/E2gORnn5x8

— Jonathan Cook (@Jonathan_K_Cook) February 11, 2021

One can debate whether it is wise for the left to use essentially hostile corporate platforms – liberal or conservative – to advance its arguments. But that is not the debate Robinson is trying to provoke. And for obvious reasons: because in piggybacking on the Guardian, Robinson did what Greenwald has done in piggybacking on Tucker Carlson. Both have used the reach of a larger corporate outlet to build their audience and expand the number of people exposed to their more progressive ideas.

There is an apparent difference, though. In Robinson’s case, he has admitted with impressive frankness that he would have been willing to self-censor on Israel had he been told by the Guardian beforehand that speaking out was likely to cost him his job. That sets his own position apart from Greenwald, who decided to walk from the Intercept rather than allow his work to be censored.

Nonetheless, it is far from clear, as Robinson assumes, that liberal corporate outlets are a safer bet for the left to ally with than rightwing corporate outlets.

Greenwald, remember, was eased out of the “liberal” Guardian many years before Robinson’s sacking after he brought the paper the glory associated with the Snowden revelations while also incurring the intelligence services’ wrath. Those revelations exposed the dark underbelly of the US national security state under the “liberal” presidency of Barack Obama, not Trump. And years later, Greenwald was again pushed out, this time from the supposedly even more “liberal” Intercept as part of its efforts to protect Biden, Obama’s Democratic party successor.

Greenwald wasn’t dispatched from these publications for being too rightwing. Tensions escalated at the Guardian over the security service backlash to Greenwald’s unwavering commitment to free speech and transparency – just as the Guardian earlier fell out with Assange faced with the security services’ retaliation for Wikileaks’ exposure of western war crimes.

The Guardian’s own commitment to transparency was surrendered with its agreement to carry out the UK security services’ demand that it smash hard drives packed with Snowden’s secrets. The destruction of those files may have been largely symbolic (there were copies in the possession of the New York Times) but the message it sent to the left and to the UK intelligence agencies was clear enough: from now on, the Guardian was resolutely going to be a team player.

What these experiences with the Guardian and the Intercept doubtless demonstrated to Greenwald was that his most fundamental political principles were essentially incompatible with those of the “liberal” media – and all the more so in the Trump era. The priority for liberal publications was not truth-telling or hosting all sides of the debate but frantically shoring up the authority of a “moderate” technocratic elite, one that would ensure a stable neoliberal environment in which it could continue its wealth extraction and accumulation.

Robinson implies that Greenwald has been embittered by these experiences, and is petulantly hitting back against the “liberal” establishment without regard to the consequences. But a fairer reading would be that Greenwald is fighting against kneejerk, authoritarian instincts wherever they are found in our societies – on the right, the centre and the left.

The irony is that he appears be getting a better hearing on Tucker Carlson than he does at the Guardian or the Intercept. Contrary to Robinson’s claim, that says more about the Guardian and the so-called liberal media than it does about Greenwald.

Captured by wokeness

Robinson also misrepresents what Greenwald and Taibbi are trying to do when they appear on rightwing media.

First, he gives every impression of arguing that, by appearing on the Tucker Carlson show, Greenwald naively hopes to persuade Carlson to switch allegiance from a rightwing to leftwing populism. But Greenwald doesn’t go on the Tucker Carlson show to turn its host into a leftist. He appears on the show to reach and influence Carlson’s millions of viewers, who do not have the same investment in neoliberalism’s continuing success as the multi-millionaire Carlson does.

Is Greenwald’s calculation any more unreasonable than Robinson’s belief while writing for the Guardian that he might succeed in turning the Guardian’s liberal readers into socialists? Is Robinson right to assume that liberals are any less committed to their selfish political worldview than the right? Or that – when their side is losing – liberal readers of the Guardian are any less susceptible to authoritarianism than rightwing viewers of Fox News?

Robinson also wrongly accuses Greenwald and Taibbi of suggesting that the CIA and major corporations have, in Robinson’s words, “become captured by culturally left ‘woke’ ideology”. But neither writer appears to believe that Black Lives Matter or #MeToo is dictating policy to the establishment. The pair are arguing instead that the CIA and the corporations are exploiting and manipulating “woke” ideology to advance their own authoritarian agendas.

Their point is not that the establishment is liberal but rather that it can more credibly market itself as liberal or progressive when a Trump is in power or when it is feared that a Trump might return to power. And that perception weakens truly progressive politics. By donning the garb of liberalism, elites are able to twist the values and objectives of social movements in ways designed to damage them and foster greater social divisions.

A feminism that celebrates women taking all the top jobs at the big arms manufacturers – the corporations whose business is the murder of men, women and children – is not really feminism. It is a perversion of feminism. Similarly, establishment claims to “wokeness” provide cover as western elites internally divide their own societies and dominate or destroy foreign ones.

So inspiring pic.twitter.com/VPuIV71sH9

— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) January 3, 2019

“Woke authoritarianism”, as Robinson mockingly terms it, is not an attribute of wokeness. It is a description of one specific incarnation of authoritarianism that is currently favoured by an establishment that, in the post-Trump era, has managed more successfully to cast itself as liberal.

Mask torn off

The central issue here – the one Robinson raises but avoids discussing – is what political conditions are most likely to foster authoritarianism in the US and other western states, and what can be done to reverse those conditions.

For Robinson, the answer is reassuringly straightforward. Trump and his rightwing populism pose the biggest threat, and the Democratic party – however dismal its leaders – is the only available vehicle for countering that menace. Therefore, left journalists have a duty to steer clear of arguments or associations that might confer legitimacy on the right.

For Greenwald and Taibbi, the picture looks far more complicated, treacherous and potentially bleak.

Trump fundamentally divided the US. For a significant section of the public, he answered their deep-seated and intensifying disenchantment with a political system that appears to be rigged against their interests after its wholesale takeover by corporate elites decades ago. He offered hope, however false.

For others, Trump threatened to topple the liberal facade the corporate elites had erected to sanctify their rule. He dispensed with the liberal pieties that had so effectively served to conceal US imperialism abroad and to maintain the fiction of democracy at home. His election tore the mask off everything that was already deeply ugly about the US political system.

Did that glimpse into the abyss fuel the sense of urgency among liberals and parts of the left to be rid of Trump at all costs – and the current desperation to prevent him or someone like him from returning to the Oval Office, even if it means further trashing free speech and transparency?

In essence, the dilemma the left now faces is this:

To work with the Democrats, with liberals, who are desperate to put the mask back on the system, to shore up its deceptions, so that political stability can be restored – a stability that is waging war around the globe, that is escalating the threat of super-power tensions and nuclear annihilation, and that is destroying the planet.
Or to keep the mask off, and work with those elements of the populist left and right that share a commitment to free speech and transparency, in the hope that through open debate we can expose the current rule by an unaccountable, authoritarian technocratic class and its corporate patrons masquerading as “liberals”.

The truth is we may be caught between a rock and hard place. Even as the warning signs mount, liberals may stick with the comfort blanket of rule by self-professed experts to the bitter end, to the point of economic and ecological collapse. And conservatives may, at the end of the day, prove that their commitment to free speech and disdain for corporate elites is far weaker than their susceptibility to narcissist strongmen.

Robinson no more has a crystal ball to see the future than Greenwald. Both are making decisions in the dark. For that reason, Robinson and his allies on the left would be better advised to stop claiming they hold the moral high ground


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 25, 2021 3:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Cleanup and comments later

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 25, 2021 11:05 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Trump didn't split the Left.

He just exposed how they've been duct taped together.

A house of cards, the Democratic Party. They all hate each other and will eat each other.

They are the party of Hate.

--------------------------------------------------

And he who is not sufficiently courageous to defend his soul — don’t let him be proud of his ‘progressive’ views, and don’t let him boast that he is an academician or a people’s artist, a distinguished figure or a general. Let him say to himself: I am a part of the herd and a coward. It’s all the same to me as long as I’m fed and kept warm.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 1:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Basically, the author says the split in 'the left' was between people who primarily identified as partisan democrats and party shills all along (ie tribal), v people who were rooted in principles that don't seem to have any party representation.

I'll have to go back and re-read it to try to tease out the historical thinking of 'democrats' v the unrepresented, to see if it says anything significant.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 3:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, first of all I think the article mis-identifies "the left" as Democrat-leaning.

I used to hang around "the left" in the 60s and 70s, and even I wasn't sure what "the left" was.

There was the antiwar "left", the pro-environment "left", the women's-lib "left". And moving to the more hardcore leftists, there were the Communists, the socialists, and the transnational crazy-eyed Trotskyists. But Democrats were thought of as too pro-establishment, and liberals were referred to as "liberaloids" (liberal-like, for their lack of conviction.)

"Leftist" meetings usually seemed to devolve to squabbling over whose ideology was purer, or who had a better understanding of Marx/Lenin/Trotsky, or who was the most aggrieved/shat-on. I recall taking an anti-nuclear war petition to a woman's group, but they refused to sign/endorse it because nuclear armageddon wasn't a woman's issue!

But now that the deep state and deep state-controlled media, big tech, transnational-loving corporatists and authoritarian politicians of BOTH parties have reared their ugly heads, perhaps "the left" acutely defines itself by what it fights against.

I personally reject any representation of "the left" as being part of the centralized, politically-correct, virtue-signalling authoritarians that SOME people seem to have devolved to, even as they insist on thinking of themselves as "leftists".

TRUMP didn't split the left. The polarization around Trump simply revealed who was on whose side.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 6:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

TRUMP didn't split the left. The polarization around Trump simply revealed who was on whose side.

“I Am Not a Member of Any Organized Party — I Am a Democrat”

By Sheldon Drobny
01/26/2006 03:49 pm ET <-- Take note of the dates
Updated May 25, 2011 <-- Note this date
June 26, 2021 <-- Today's date. The essay remains true despite another decade passing.

www.huffpost.com/entry/i-am-not-a-member-of-any-_b_14512

The title of this piece comes from a Will Rogers quote made in the 1930s. Here are some of his funnier quotes about the Democrats and politics in general:

“Politics has got so expensive that it takes lots of money to even get beat with.”

“You’ve got to be optimist to be a Democrat, and you’ve got to be a humorist to stay one.”

“The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf has.”

“Lord, the money we do spend on Government and it’s not one bit better than the one we got for one- third the money twenty years ago.”

It is amazing that after over 60 years these quotes are applicable to politics in the 21st century. Before 1933 and FDR, the Republicans controlled all branches of government and it took the Great Depression to convince the electorate that Republicans, as the party of big business, were not looking out for the best interests of most Americans. And the Democratic Party was just as disorganized before 1933 as it is today.

The problem that the Democrats always have when they are the minority party is that they have no powerful constituency. The Democrats have always been the party that represents working America which now includes the middle class. That constituency is virtually powerless especially since the decline of organized labor. The Republican Party is the party of “big business” and their constituency are the rich and powerful in this country. That is why the Democrats can only regain their control when the country is in major crisis. The corporate media of the 1920s was as biased as it is today because they represented the rich and powerful.

There is nothing new about this dilemma and we should not be too critical about the Democratic leadership. I do agree that many Democrats are trying to hedge on their positions regarding various issues. However, most Democrats stand for positions that are best for 80-90% of Americans. The problem is that corporate propaganda is disseminated through filters and spin that demonize Democrats, liberals and progressives. Clearly the business class does not want to have Democrats in control unless the economic situation is so negative that they have no choice.

And the idea that the Republicans are the party of national defense is a myth that is a fairly recent event. From the time of Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson (all wartime Presidents) Democrats were criticized by isolationist Republicans as being the party of war. Since Herbert Hoover, the Republicans were viewed as the party of economic depression. Those perceptions have definitely changed, but perception is now realty and all of these things are a by-product of the corporate media which is controlled by the Republican Party.

America is definitely heading toward economic and political collapse as a result of the decisions made by Republican Administrations over the last 25 years. The collapse of the American Empire will be the necessary step that will once again bring people back to the sanity necessary to change the political and economic crisis we are facing today. It will take no less than a “Depression” type calamity like it did in the 1930s to bring America and its leaders back to their senses. And this time I believe it will be the “last hurrah” for Republicans and the wealthy elite they represent.

Every sentence in the above essay is true, but I believe that when typical Trumptards read it, perhaps by Signym, 1kiki and 6ix, every sentence will be misunderstood and the plain meaning of this essay will be turned upside down and backwards.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 10:12 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Every sentence in the above essay is true, but I believe that when typical Trumptards read it, perhaps by Signym, 1kiki and 6ix, every sentence will be misunderstood and the plain meaning of this essay will be turned upside down and backwards.



The Democrats are running on racist policies with full backing by the racist Legacy Media.

My post history here shows that I used to lean Democrat. But I have no interest in being cucked and supporting a party that actively hates me because of my skin color coupled with my genital organs.

Democrats today are also pro-war and pro-censorship.

Fix your fucking party.

--------------------------------------------------

And he who is not sufficiently courageous to defend his soul — don’t let him be proud of his ‘progressive’ views, and don’t let him boast that he is an academician or a people’s artist, a distinguished figure or a general. Let him say to himself: I am a part of the herd and a coward. It’s all the same to me as long as I’m fed and kept warm.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 1:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Every sentence in the above essay is true, but I believe that when typical Trumptards read it, perhaps by Signym, 1kiki and 6ix, every sentence will be misunderstood and the plain meaning of this essay will be turned upside down and backwards.



The Democrats are running on racist policies with full backing by the racist Legacy Media.

My post history here shows that I used to lean Democrat. But I have no interest in being cucked and supporting a party that actively hates me because of my skin color coupled with my genital organs.

Democrats today are also pro-war and pro-censorship.

Fix your fucking party.

All the people I know who voted for Trump, with the exception of wealthy Trump voters, are crazy, stupid to boot, and have personal problems to prove they're insane. They struggle to stay in the middle class and are oblivious to why their lives are hard because they don't recognize craziness when they look in the mirror. See the Confederates for how crazy political beliefs cause economic hardship.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 1:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The Democrat Party leadership is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Transnational, Inc. Don't let the chaff that they throw into the air confuse you.

Even the party "insurgents" will never speak against a centralized authoritarian government which follows the precepts of transnationalism while destroying the USA.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 2:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Every sentence in the above essay is true ....
I, quite literally, laughed out loud when I read that.

When I look at REAL DATA - numbers of nukes, number of wars, first-strike nuclear policy, CO2 and other global-warming gas emissions, spook agency spying on citizens, wage - mode (less than 1,000 per year!), US manufacturing loss ... even union membership - I see NO DIFFERENCE between republicans and democrats, except the democrats seem to start more US wars than republicans (with a shout-out to the Clintons!).

Well, facts never seem to get in the way of agendas; especially of the personal-grudge type.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 2:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

All the people I know who voted for Trump, with the exception of wealthy Trump voters, are crazy, stupid to boot, and have personal problems to prove they're insane. They struggle to stay in the middle class and are oblivious to why their lives are hard because they don't recognize craziness when they look in the mirror.
Project your own inner demons much?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 2:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Nothing Second has to say on any given topic should ever be given more than a cursory skim before throwing it in the circular file.

Second loves coming here because he mistakes our constant destruction of his deranged beliefs as attention.



--------------------------------------------------

And he who is not sufficiently courageous to defend his soul — don’t let him be proud of his ‘progressive’ views, and don’t let him boast that he is an academician or a people’s artist, a distinguished figure or a general. Let him say to himself: I am a part of the herd and a coward. It’s all the same to me as long as I’m fed and kept warm.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 3:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Cleanup and comments later

I don't see how Trump did anything here. Only Li8berals who excessively navel gaze are deluded enough to imagine Trump did something to them.
The title should be how The Left split The Left.

Otherwise, point out any specific action which Trump specifically did which specifically split The Left.

The left has been divisive for centuries, Trump mostly ignored them.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 3:25 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Sen. Bernard Sanders said in a new interview he’s uncomfortable with social media companies banning former President Donald Trump

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/mar/24/bernie-sanders-i-dont
-feel-comfortable-with-donald
/

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 26, 2021 3:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



But when push comes to shove, Bernie caves to the party* every time. And gets reamed every time.

Maybe they're* holding something over him. Maybe they've* been telling him he can't 'caucus' with the democrats* unless he plays ball. Maybe he needs to change his party affiliation to 'democrat'*. Anybody can call themselves anything. After all Trump called himself a republican. And there's nothing a political party can do to keep the person out.



BTW - where are Bernie's and Elizabeth's influential positions in the Biden* administration?


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 27, 2021 7:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

Every sentence in the above essay is true ....
I, quite literally, laughed out loud when I read that.

When I look at REAL DATA - numbers of nukes, number of wars, first-strike nuclear policy, CO2 and other global-warming gas emissions, spook agency spying on citizens, wage - mode (less than 1,000 per year!), US manufacturing loss ... even union membership - I see NO DIFFERENCE between republicans and democrats, except the democrats seem to start more US wars than republicans (with a shout-out to the Clintons!).

Well, facts never seem to get in the way of agendas; especially of the personal-grudge type.

Data show that the economy has performed much better during Democratic administrations. Economic growth, job creation and industrial production have all been stronger. -- The Economy Under Democratic vs. Republican Presidents
www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/democrats/2016/6/the-economy-under
-democratic-vs-republican-presidents


1kiki, read what you wrote, again. Just maybe you will see what I see -- how crazy and stupid was what you wrote. I don't think you will have a sudden enlightenment because, while Democratic voters' thinking ranges over all possibilities, the people I know who voted for Republicans and are not rich have little variability, which doesn't work out so well for keeping them in the middle class. It's just a struggle for Trumptards to stay in the middle class as it is for any crazy and/or stupid American, whether Democrat, Republican or Independent.

I could do an essay about why Malcolm Reynolds has financial and legal struggles, but one example is enough. In the first episode, The Train Job, Mal murders a henchman. To kill the henchman, Mal risked damaging the fan jet on his spaceship, and permanently ruining Serenity, his only source of income. Mal left DNA evidence all over his spaceship for the law to find. There is much more that is wrong with Mal's decision but I will stop. Murdering that henchman was stupid and crazy, and Mal will make many similarly bad decisions in future episodes that make his life a struggle. I have seen Trumptards make bad decisions and, this is the whole point, NOT recognize what they did was self-destructive because the wrong decision felt right. Trumptards' feelings are poorly calibrated for their prosperity. Again, they can NOT recognize that because they are crazy.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 27, 2021 8:26 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
BTW - where are Bernie's and Elizabeth's influential positions in the Biden* administration?



Who?

--------------------------------------------------

And he who is not sufficiently courageous to defend his soul — don’t let him be proud of his ‘progressive’ views, and don’t let him boast that he is an academician or a people’s artist, a distinguished figure or a general. Let him say to himself: I am a part of the herd and a coward. It’s all the same to me as long as I’m fed and kept warm.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 27, 2021 9:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
BTW - where are Bernie's and Elizabeth's influential positions in the Biden* administration?



Who?

Bernie and Elizabeth, alone or together, can prevent any Biden priority or project or spending from becoming law by joining with the Republicans. That is their influential positions.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 27, 2021 9:09 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
BTW - where are Bernie's and Elizabeth's influential positions in the Biden* administration?



Who?

Bernie and Elizabeth, alone or together, can prevent any Biden priority or project or spending from becoming law by joining with the Republicans. That is their influential positions.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



I thought that was Manchin's job.


Man. Your party really sucks.

You should probably try to fix it.

--------------------------------------------------

And he who is not sufficiently courageous to defend his soul — don’t let him be proud of his ‘progressive’ views, and don’t let him boast that he is an academician or a people’s artist, a distinguished figure or a general. Let him say to himself: I am a part of the herd and a coward. It’s all the same to me as long as I’m fed and kept warm.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 27, 2021 9:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Sure SLOPPY - whatever.

You *** DO *** know that "Gross Domestic Product is defined as C + I + G + (X - M), where:

C = Consumption, the amount spend by consumers on products
I = Investment, the amount spent by businesses on new equipment and other capital expenditures, plus the amount spent by consumers on new homes. *** I does not equal what you might typically think of as a consumer investment, such as buying stocks
G = Government spending ***
X - M = Exports minus imports"

Right? And that production isn't part of the measure of GDP?

And that *** jobs *** includes gig work, temp work, part-time, and minimum wage - right?



NOW FOR SOME RELEVANT DATA

Unemployment and labor force participation do NOT improve under democrats.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/labor-force-participation-r
ate


Real wage growth is NOT better under democrats.


CO2 emissions are NOT lower under democrats.


Nuclear warhead stockpiles decreased under republicans - but never under democrats.


Global mean temperature doesn't decrease due to democratic administrations.


Pappy Bush started 3 wars,and dubya started 3 wars, but Obama started 6 - and Trump started 0.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States


So why don't you take your phony data and put it where it belongs?



SLOPPY - why do you never start any threads of your own but instead spend 100% of your time crapping up everyone else's? Is it because you really have NOTHING you want to discuss and are only here to troll?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 27, 2021 1:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNYM:
Cleanup and comments later

JSF: I don't see how Trump did anything here. Only Li8berals who excessively navel gaze are deluded enough to imagine Trump did something to them.
The title should be how The Left split The Left.

Otherwise, point out any specific action which Trump specifically did which specifically split The Left.

The left has been divisive for centuries, Trump mostly ignored them.



JSF, you are - once again- responding to what you THINK someone posted, not to what they actually wrote. In my next post, the last line reads

Quote:

SIGNY: TRUMP didn't split the left. The polarization around Trump simply revealed who was on whose side.
You see? WE AGREE! If you could focus your attention on what people ACTUALLY post, it would be a good idea.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 27, 2021 2:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


JSF could agree fully with the last 10 posts you made, but if you arrange half of the words in any given sentence in such a way that he might not like the outcome of he were to finish reading it then he will write a page long explanation why you're a Libtard.

--------------------------------------------------

And he who is not sufficiently courageous to defend his soul — don’t let him be proud of his ‘progressive’ views, and don’t let him boast that he is an academician or a people’s artist, a distinguished figure or a general. Let him say to himself: I am a part of the herd and a coward. It’s all the same to me as long as I’m fed and kept warm.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Fri, November 1, 2024 10:30 - 4426 posts
Kamala Harris for President
Fri, November 1, 2024 10:20 - 602 posts
The Sorrows Of Empire by Chalmers Johnson
Fri, November 1, 2024 07:41 - 80 posts
Is isolationism bad?? What happens if or when the USA Withdraws from the World?
Fri, November 1, 2024 07:38 - 36 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Fri, November 1, 2024 07:28 - 7409 posts
Hollywood expensive movies & Tv shows keep crashing, Sportsball and LeBron...what will be the next box office Flop?
Fri, November 1, 2024 07:17 - 79 posts
How truth is manufactured in the West
Fri, November 1, 2024 06:51 - 112 posts
The Saudi-al Qaida puppet-masters (not PN)
Fri, November 1, 2024 06:43 - 20 posts
Turkish F-16 shoots down Russian aircraft
Fri, November 1, 2024 06:35 - 62 posts
State of the Nation - Hungary
Fri, November 1, 2024 06:32 - 5 posts
The economy is so bad even Joe Biden*'s job got outsourced to an Indian
Fri, November 1, 2024 06:27 - 11 posts
PREDICTIONS THREAD (v.2)
Fri, November 1, 2024 06:05 - 128 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL