REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A) This won't happen

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Thursday, September 1, 2022 14:16
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Wednesday, August 31, 2022 6:23 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Huh. My early comment "Because our electricity is so plentiful and our grid is so robust?" seems to have disappeared! Anyway, apropos of that

Quote:

Just Days After Phasing Out New Gas Cars, California Says "Avoid Charging EVs" Amid Potential Blackouts

https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/avoid-charging-evs-california-grid-o
perator-warns-blackouts-urges-energy-conservation


I marvel at the push for EVs, both here and in Europe.

1) EVs aren't significantly more efficient than gasoline cars in terms of CO2 per mile driven even if the electricity is produced from gas-fired plants, and if
2) The EVs are charged with electricity generated by coal-fired power plants, all you have is a an inefficiently fueled coal-fired car (very dirty, climate-unfriendly).
3) Taking into account the environmental destruction accompanying lithium extraction, EVs might be overall worse for the environment.

Hydrogen powered cars are too far in the future. Hydrogen is a slippery molecule that's hard to store and doesn't provide much BTU per Cuft so it must be compressed to 15,000psi or more to get any kind of reasonable range for a vehicle. The infrastructure required to pipe or store and fuel a vehicle is prohibitive. Much better to save H2 for stationary applications where is can be generated on site.

Fuel cells are doubly problematic because their membranes are too easily fouled, so not only do you have the fuel to deal with but it has to be pristine. (The ones w/o membranes rely on things like liquid sodium: NOT something you want to be driving around with!)

In theory renewable fuels make sense but biodiesel means the destruction of rainforests to grow palm oil. Ethanol is produced from over fertilized corn fields, creating nitrous oxide and algae blooms.

Probably the most practical fuel is compressed nat gas. It burns more cleanly than gasoline or diesel, keeping engines running cleaner longer, only needs to be compressed to reasonable limits (about 4,000 psi for fast-fill stations), doesn't leak as easily. The engine can be used to charge a small buffer battery, meaning that it can be tuned for max efficiency at constant rpms, and the car can run on an electric motor with regenerative braking.

The Big Brains in government should get their technical minions to pencil whip the various options and see how it works out, but they're so committed to this EV idea they can't see anything else.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Thursday, September 1, 2022 6:47 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Probably the most practical fuel is compressed nat gas. It burns more cleanly than gasoline or diesel, keeping engines running cleaner longer, only needs to be compressed to reasonable limits (about 4,000 psi for fast-fill stations), doesn't leak as easily.

A hydrogen powered machine does NOT necessarily require a fuel cell to make electricity. Instead, hydrogen can be the fuel for an internal combustion engine. Rather than burning natural gas, which is mostly methane CH4, pure hydrogen H2 is burned.

What Ever Happened to Natural Gas-Powered Cars?
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/what-ever-happened-to-natural-gas-powered
-cars
/

Facts About Natural Gas Stations
http://www.texasngvalliance.com/Overview

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 1, 2022 2:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Probably the most practical fuel is compressed nat gas. It burns more cleanly than gasoline or diesel, keeping engines running cleaner longer, only needs to be compressed to reasonable limits (about 4,000 psi for fast-fill stations), doesn't leak as easily.

A hydrogen powered machine does NOT necessarily require a fuel cell to make electricity. Instead, hydrogen can be the fuel for an internal combustion engine. Rather than burning natural gas, which is mostly methane CH4, pure hydrogen H2 is burned.

What Ever Happened to Natural Gas-Powered Cars?
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/what-ever-happened-to-natural-gas-powered
-cars
/

Facts About Natural Gas Stations
http://www.texasngvalliance.com/Overview

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

I know that. That's why I addressed hydrogen vehicles and fuels cells separately.

The limitation on H2 is it's low BTU/Cuft and the fact that it's hard to compress and store. Another problem that I didn't address bc I didn't want to do an info-bomb is that H2 at 15,000psi seeps into metal containers, making them brittle. It's also an excellent solvent, so if you try and coat the metal with a protective coating it will dissolve it and pieces will spit out with the H2.

You CAN store H2 as lithium or borate hydride but it's HEAVY and refilling isn't easy, and would require swappable fuel tanks. There would need to be significant advances in H2 storage for it to be a practical vehicle fuel.

Fuel cells can be powered by all kinds of fuels, including H2 and nat gas. BUT the ones with membranes are subject to poisoning. With H2 fuel cells the poisons if concern are water and methanol. With nat gas the poisons of concern are sulfur compounds and higher hydrocarbons. While fuel cells have the potential to convert fuel to electricity more efficiently than typical electricity generators, right now they are not any more efficient than the more efficient power plants.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/power-generation-effi
ciency


Solar cells, as previously mentioned, have only recently passed the threshold where they produce more energy than it took to make them. So the advantage there is also incremental. Plus, they have the disadvantage of not producing power at night, or reliably, due to weather conditions.

We CAN reduce our fossil fuel consumption by

Cutting our military activities way back

Installing wind and solar power where appropriate (with the, knowledge that the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow all the time, requiring either standby generators and/or a robust efficient grid to xport electricity across states)

Installing H2 power generators at stationary sources, where appropriate

Switching to smaller natgas/electric vehicles (and maybe looking at "land ferries" for far-flung suburbs)

Reinvigorating train transportation

Investing in home energy efficiency

I'm sure there are a lot more things we can do right away, each will make incremental progress instead of committing to something that's unworkable or backsliding.

But all of that belongs

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58012&p=5

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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