Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria
POSTED BY: kpo
UPDATED: Monday, September 8, 2025 15:48
VIEWED: 105691
PAGE 2 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Your 'separatists' are ISIS. I guess you like ISIS.
This kind of idiocy is why I scroll right through your posts.
Me too, most of em anyway.
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"This kind of idiocy is why I scroll right through your posts."
Which is why you replied?
But anyway, there you go again. Mistaking 'source' as a measure of validity. It must be permanent brain damage, since you seem completely unable to learn to correct your error.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Russian airstrikes target mosques in Syria
WASHINGTON — Russian airstrikes over Syria have damaged or destroyed at least 19 mosques as part of a scorched earth air campaign that appears to be targeting civilians as well as rebel fighters, according to a study of attacks on religious sites.
Syrian government forces were responsible for attacks on 47 mosques, according to the data compiled by the American Schools of Oriental Research, which has a grant from the State Department to track the destruction of historic and religious sites in Iraq and Syria.
It said an additional 10 mosques were struck by either Russian or Syrian forces. About 17% of all the strikes occurred during prayer services.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/02/11/russian-air-strike
s-targeting-mosques-syria/80248060/
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BAD RUSSIA!
Only RUSSIA seems to be doing anything bad! That must mean ISIS is GREAT!
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:Hmmm... well, since I've seen the weapons that Russia is using in Syria, I doubt that they have to resort to barrel bombs. Maybe you should educate yourself, if that isn't expecting too much.
Any entity using a barrel bombs is using them out of lack of resources, they're not the scourge that you've been told.- SIGNY
Says who? Russian state media and your echo-chamber of pro-Russian anti-Western blogs.-KPO
Quote:Links?
Second, why do you imagine that the Russians are bombing indiscriminately?- SIGNY
Err, 100,000 displaced in less than 2 weeks?? And who said anything about 'indiscriminately'? Hospitals, market places etc. - it seems to me Russia's bombing of civilian infrastructure is heavily targeted.- KPO
Quote:uh huh
Why not put the blame for this clusterfuck on who started it and who's been propelling it forward: Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, UAE, and the USA CIA?- SIGNY
Even if it were true that the backers of the rebels started this war (it's not, and they didn't)
Quote:Oh, you mean war crimes like "shock and awe"?
what we're talking about in this thread is WAR CRIMES committed by Russia and Assad. There is NEVER any excuse for them, no matter how hard you try to deflect and blame someone else.
Quote:Well, you may recall I was trying to do a point-to-point comparison of Ukraine and Syria and somehow it died for lack of interest on your part.
why don't we expect the "rebels" to cede the city and save the population from warfare? - SIGNY
Just amazing reasoning. And staggering hypocrisy. Remember back in spring/early summer 2014 when the Ukrainian government was driving back the separatists, and laying siege to Donetsk and Luhansk? And you were howling against the Ukrainian government for attacking population centres? And NOT condemning the separatists for defending from them? Can you say why the Syrian rebels should be obliged to cede cities in their control to an attacking government, but the pro-Russian separatists shouldn't?- KPO
I guess one of the differences between the Donbas rebels and YOUR "rebels" is that the Donbas rebels didn't start out by trying to topple the Kiev government. In fact, they're still not trying to topple the government. They're not trying to impose their law on the rest of Ukraine. They didn't start out by sawing people's heads off, or burning them in cages, or by blowing up cars in marketplaces, nor have they allied themselves with such. YOUR rebels? Hmmm.... not so much.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
BAD RUSSIA!
Only RUSSIA seems to be doing anything bad! That must mean ISIS is GREAT!
And there you go. Defending Russia by suggesting they are not the only ones. You and SIG descend upon the rest of the world (anyone other than Russia and it's allies ) with a holier than thou perspective. Link after link, topic after topic accusing the West ( where you and SIG choose to live ) of being responsible for all the worlds ills. Then Russia starts rearing it's ugly head and they can do no wrong. Kill who they wish, steal land and run one of the worlds most corrupt states.
This is why your opinions about anything mean squat around here and is why you and SIG are constantly battling with the rest here. Now do what you do and accuse me again of liking DASH as SIG and now you are doing.
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I see that Russia committed the war crime of proposing a ceasefire and humanitarian aid - even tho they're winning.
It must be such a disappointment to KPO and THUGR and G!
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"This kind of idiocy is why I scroll right through your posts."
Which is why you replied?
Don't get me wrong, I'll read the odd line to see what nonsense you're spouting, before quickly tuning out.
Quote:
BAD RUSSIA!
Only RUSSIA seems to be doing anything bad! That must mean ISIS is GREAT!
I find it really funny that you deny being pro-Russian, but when people criticise Russia you get so upset that you spew out hysterical nonsense like the above.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
BAD RUSSIA!
Only RUSSIA seems to be doing anything bad! That must mean ISIS is GREAT!
KIKI in this very thread:
"Hey asshole - why don't you quote where I 'defended Russia'. Because I didn't, and you will not be able to find where I did."
T - looks we posted at the same time - worth the twofer.
It's almost like she said: "I do not use the Internet! You can't find any place where I did!"
It's been absolutely astounding to see SIG and 1kiki's self righteous rants about this injustice and that injustice when I first arrived, replaced so emphatically with such an absolute defense of the despicable.
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Quote:
It's been absolutely astounding to see SIG and 1kiki's self righteous rants about this injustice and that injustice when I first arrived, replaced so emphatically with such an absolute defense of the despicable.
Fighting neck-sawing, prisoner-burning ISIL is despicable? Fighting Sunni extremists who are intent on imposing Sharai law is despicable? Targeting carefully is despicable? You have a strange sense of despicable!
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hospitals, market places etc. - it seems to me Russia's bombing of civilian infrastructure is heavily targeted.- KPO
Links?
Have you not been paying attention throughout this whole thread?
To cut and paste one of my entire previous posts...
From the UN, Airstrikes on civilians, civilian infrastructure, fuel and food lines and fucking refugee camps.:
Quote:
Civilian Infrastructure Hit and Humanitarian Aid Workers Killed in Northwestern Governorates
GoS and allied forces airstrikes reportedly impacted civilian infrastructure in northwestern governorates in Syria from 02 to 22 December. Most recently on 20 December, six airstrikes hit a public market in Idleb City killing more than 50 people and wounding approximately 150 people most of whom were evacuated to Turkey for treatment.
One NGO staff member and two civil defense workers were among those killed while a number of NGO staff were wounded in this attack prompting safety concerns for humanitarian staff working in Idleb City. The airstrikes also destroyed a school, a court building, and a collective shelter housing newly displaced IDPs.
Airstrikes hit a fuel market in Ma’aret al-Nassan in Idleb governorate frequented by civilians on 15 December, killing approximately 16 people and wounding over 50 people. Fuel prices have risen dramatically over the last month in areas held by Non-State Armed Groups (NSAGs) due to repeated attacks on fuel supply lines and infrastructure and the subsequent shortage of fuel. According to local sources, as of 21 December the price of diesel has risen from 250 Syrian Pounds to 375 Syrian Pounds in Idleb governorate since late November.
One NGO staff was killed by artillery fire in Khan al-Shaykhoun and a NGO supported hospital was partially damaged in Taftanaz due to a missile hitting in close proximity to the hospital on 13 December. This resulted in the main generator catching fire and causing subsequent damage. In another airstrike on 11 December, one bread distribution point was hit killing six civilians and wounding at least ten others. According to the Camp Coordination and Camp Management (CCCM) cluster, 2,538 individuals were displaced between 17 November and 18 December bringing the number of IDPs displaced from and within Idleb to 206,254 people as of 18 December.
In Lattakia, GoS and allied forces continued their airstrikes in Turkmen and Akrad mountains in northern Lattakia, an area with the presence of 14 NGO supported IDP settlements hosting 12,882 IDPs. Due to ongoing airstrikes and ground clashes between GoS and allied forces and NSAGs 11,245 people were displaced from 17 November to 18 December in Lattakia according to the CCCM cluster. Approximately 4,000 families living in IDP camps and settlements along the M4 highway near the Turkish border area of Yamadiya are living in close proximity to active frontlines. Protection fears for IDPs in these camps were raised considerably on 09 December after airstrikes and surface-to-surface missiles hit Obein IDP (refugee - KPO) camp in Lattakia, killing seven civilians and wounding many others.
In the southern countryside of Aleppo governorate, airstrikes hit two field hospitals in Khan al-Touman and Zarbah killing five people and wounding an unverified number of people on 09 December and 22 December, respectively.
A medical warehouse containing life-saving aid and medical items was severely damaged in Kafer Hamra town in Haritan sub-district of Aleppo on 07 December, after being hit by airstrikes that killed a number of civilians and wounded one NGO staff. The capacity of health infrastructure and the ability of health NGOs to respond to medical needs in the area have severely deteriorated.
http://reliefweb.int/report/syrian-arab-republic/turkey-syria-flash-up
date-developments-northwestern-governorates-22
What, did you think those 100,000 refugees at the Turkish border in the past 2 weeks were all just going there for a picnic
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We all know SIG and 1KIKI are Russian stooges, and I've heard the term painfully obvious, but this is ridiculous.
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Quote:
the weapons that Russia is using in Syria, I doubt that they have to resort to barrel bombs. Maybe you should educate yourself,
Maybe you should educate yourself on the use of grammar, since I never said Russia was using barrel bombs.
Quote:
Oh, you mean war crimes like "shock and awe"
I would say educate yourself on "war crimes" and military doctrine while you're at it, but the more you read the dumber you get, so maybe don't bother.
Quote:
I see that Russia committed the war crime of proposing a ceasefire and humanitarian aid - even tho they're winning.
I see Signy has made the mistake of believing the Russian government again.
Russia KEEPS ON bombing rebel-held towns - recent videos of the devastation in the past 24 hours:
FSA and other rebel groups say they won't lay down their weapons until Russia stops its bombing campaign on their cities:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-35564314
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Quote:OF COURSE they are, you nit. Russians have never claimed they were only fighting ISIL. It was their stated intention all along - right from the very beginning- to support Assad. They also said: Not all terrorists carry a black flag.
Russia KEEPS ON bombing rebel-held towns - recent videos of the devastation in the past 24 hours
But I see that you keep making the mistake in thinking that the "rebels" are some sort of universally holy pro-democracy force. The reality is that there are SOME that tried to fight a two-front war- against both government forces and ISIL, but they're few and far between, and many of the various rebel factions have openly allied themselves with various foreign terrorist organizations.
Quote:Then the FSA can be bombed with their ISIL/ ahrar ash Sham/ al nusra / al Qaida allies. Not all of the rebels have allied themselves with terrorists, but when you ally yourself with terrorists ...
FSA and other rebel groups say they won't lay down their weapons until Russia stops its bombing campaign on their cities
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Hey 'G'string.
This: "BAD RUSSIA! Only RUSSIA seems to be doing anything bad! That must mean ISIS is GREAT!" Is NOT a defense of Russia. Where did I excuse/ defend Russia?
I was merely ironically pointing out how one-sided you are. You KNOW what being one-sided means, right?
Pssst ... it means you're a hypocrite and idiot.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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KPO, G, and THUGR,
MAYBE you need an education about the current state of the FSA. Would you accept Wikipedia as a neutral source of info?
According to WIKI, the beginnings of the FSA were defectors from the Syrian Army who refused to fire on protesters in 2011. Fast forward to today ...
Quote:So, there are jihadist groups in northern Syria= groups that I assume you would say are legitimate targets of the Syrian Army and Russian air campaign.
Between July 2012 and July 2013, ill-discipline and infighting weakened the FSA.
Meanwhile, jihadist groups entered northern Syria and became more effective than FSA.
Quote:Not quite a majority
... On 7 December 2012, about 260 to 550 commanders
Quote:In other words, the meeting was held in Turkey, which is so invested in deposing Assad that they are THE major suppliers to ISIL, and attended by other FOREIGN POWERS whose goal was also to depose Assad. i.e. They became pawns in a proxy war.
and representatives of the Syrian armed opposition met in Antalya [TURKEY] and elected a new 30-person military council for the FSA. ... Brigadier General Salim Idris, ... was elected as the new Chief of Staff of the FSA and effective leader.
Security officials from the United States, United Kingdom, France, the Gulf Cooperation Council and Jordan were present at the meeting
Quote:
About two-thirds of those elected to the new command were individuals associated with the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria
The Muslim Brotherhood is a Qatari-funded group of sectarian Sunnis who believe in Sunni Sharia law.
Quote:
Thomson Reuters stated that the new Chief of Staff Gen. Salim Idris "is not ideological", while two of his new deputy commanders, Abdelbasset Tawil from Idlib Governorate and Abdelqader Saleh from Aleppo Governorate are Islamist.
FSA brigades in northern Syria supported the Army of Conquest-led [anti-government, pro-Nusra] offensive that took control of almost all of Idlib governorate, as well as aided the YPG in their approach from the east and west against ISIL-controlled Tell Abyad. According to journalist Thomas Joscelyn, FSA troops backed al-Nusra and other jihadi forces in their successful capture of Jisr Al Shughur in northwestern Syria's Idlib province.
The entry also mentions that FSA members have defected to ISIL.
So the FSA is a hodge-podge of sub-groups whose only unifying motive is to depose Assad. Some of the FSA is pro-democracy, but much of the FSA live on the spectrum from being pro-Sunni Islamists who seek to implement Sharia law (after Assad is deposed), to being out and-out pro-terror Takfiris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
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Because you SIG and 1KIKI are always posting with malice about the West, I point out to all who visit theses threads that you two are nothing more than Russian trolls. The harder you try not to come off that way the guiltier you look. It is one defense of Russia after another and never a rebuke of any kind.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; eat shit comrades. I am an American who believes the sooner the Russian economy crashes beyond repair because of Russia's behavior in Georgia, the Ukraine and Syria the better.
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Turkey Shells Aleppo, Says "Massive Escalation" In Syria Imminent As Saudis Ready Airstrikes
Quote:
Even as all sides - including the US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and select rebel groups - pretend to be working towards a ceasefire and a diplomatic solution to the five year conflict in Syria, actions speak louder than words, and to put it as succinctly as possible, everyone is still fighting.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-13/turkey-says-massive-escalatio
n-syria-imminent-saudis-set-launch-airstrikes
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Preserved for the future. Quote in which THUGGER FREELY! admits he's so stupid he doesn't care WHO wins - even if it's the Nazis in Ukraine or ISIS in Syria - they're A-OK! As long as Russia loses.
I already figured out a loooong time ago that's what you think, idiot. Why else do you think I've been pointing and laughing at you all this time?
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Because you SIG and 1KIKI are always posting with malice about the West, I point out to all who visit theses threads that you two are nothing more than Russian trolls. The harder you try not to come off that way the guiltier you look. It is one defense of Russia after another and never a rebuke of any kind.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; eat shit comrades. I am an American who believes the sooner the Russian economy crashes beyond repair because of Russia's behavior in Georgia, the Ukraine and Syria the better.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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I wonder, if the Turks/ Saudis/ Qataris/ USA CIA prevail and Syria turns into a(nother) Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Libya/ Yemen, would G, KPO, and THUGR have the intellect and -more importantly- the ethical fortitude to look back and ask themselves What have we done?
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Personally Sigs, I'm not paid to think about that.
They're going to do it without us anyhow.
Why beat yourself up?
"Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria?"
Who is Assad? and Who gives a fuck about Syria?
Not my Problem.
WAY above my pay grade.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Preserved for the future. Quote in which THUGGER FREELY! admits he's so stupid he doesn't care WHO wins - even if it's the Nazis in Ukraine or ISIS in Syria - they're A-OK! As long as Russia loses.
I already figured out a loooong time ago that's what you think, idiot. Why else do you think I've been pointing and laughing at you all this time?
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Because you SIG and 1KIKI are always posting with malice about the West, I point out to all who visit theses threads that you two are nothing more than Russian trolls. The harder you try not to come off that way the guiltier you look. It is one defense of Russia after another and never a rebuke of any kind.
Quote:
THGRRI
I've said it before and I'll say it again; eat shit comrades. I am an American who believes the sooner the Russian economy crashes beyond repair because of Russia's behavior in Georgia, the Ukraine and Syria the better.
Only a moron would read what you quote from me and think it means what you think it means. And that is why the joke has always been on you comrade troll.
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Here's me doing the "go fuck yourself" dance...
My life blows enough without giving two shits about any of this.
There's a reason why rich people are almost instinctively altruistic. They're fucking bored out of their minds...
You people really have so little going on in your life and your own minds that you give two shits about what Assad is doing half a world away? On valentine's day?
Anyone posting to this thread must really have their own houses in order, huh?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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"You people really have so little going on in your life and your own minds that you give two shits about what Assad is doing half a world away?"
Actually, I took the week off from work to help someone who had three surgeries on Monday and was recovering. I don't show my concern for people with anonymous drunken posts made to strangers on the internet, like some people do about their niece. I prefer to help when I can. And, rather than driving back and forth and spending hours a day helping out, I would LOVE to have so little in my life that all I had to care about was the Middle East.
Next week I'll be back at work.
And what did YOU do during the week, Jack?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:If THEY don't pay you to think, you won't???? What you think about is determined by what you're PAID? TPTB really do have you by the neurons, don't they? You've "monetized" your thoughts, like a good little droid. Did it never occurred to you that TPTB will never pay you to think about them, and that you've made your thoughts hostage to their money?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Personally Sigs, I'm not paid to think about that. They're going to do it without us anyhow. Why beat yourself up?
Quote:Your taxes. OUR taxes. Your vote. OUR vote, or non-vote. Tell me, 6IX, if it hadn't been for me telling you about the corruption of Hillary, what WOULD you have thought if her? Is being a decent human being and informed citizen above your pay grade?
"Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria?" Who is Assad? and Who gives a fuck about Syria? Not my Problem.WAY above my pay grade.
Quote:This is the sweetest thing about you 6IX. When you bid people to "Do Right, Be Right", do you imagine there's some boundary there where you could say that you no longer should follow your own advice?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Quote:Life blows for MANY people 6IX, and a lot of it has to do with how the USA spends its money destroying foreign countries and entering into "free trade" deals, how its policies are determined by a minute number of sociopaths who are constantly grasping for absolute control.
My life blows enough without giving two shits about any of this.
But drinking yourself into a stupor just so you can feel sorry for yourself doesn't help either. It's bad enough that TPTB are sociopaths who are determined to extract every little bit of wealth and power they can from us peons. You're making it a lot worse by disabling yourself from dealing with the problem, let alone even thinking about it. You won't find freedom in the bottom of a bottle, son. I hope that at some point you stop harming yourself so badly.
Thinking without constraint- it's the last place, and the first place, you will ever find freedom. Available to anyone who CAN think, no matter how poor.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Preserved for the future. Quote in which THUGGER FREELY! admits he's so stupid he doesn't care WHO wins - even if it's the Nazis in Ukraine or ISIS in Syria - they're A-OK! As long as Russia loses. I already figured out a loooong time ago that's what you think, idiot. Why else do you think I've been pointing and laughing at you all this time? - KIKI
I've said it before and I'll say it again; eat shit comrades. I am an American who believes the sooner the Russian economy crashes beyond repair because of Russia's behavior in Georgia, the Ukraine and Syria the better. - THUGR
THUGR, have you never had a WTF??? moment when contemplating that the USA turned EVERY (literally) secular nation in the ME into smoking ruins, filled with neck-sawing jihadists??? Do you have any thoughts about why the USA would ally itself with a head-chopping wahhabist monarchy in Saudi Arabia?
What is your explanation (if any) for the continuous trail of destruction that the USA left ... Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, Libya, and Syria?
Any thoughts?
Or just mindlessness?
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Turkey Fires On Syrian Army, Kurds, Says "Massive Escalation" In Syria Imminent As Saudis Ready Airstrikes
So, Turkey is shelling Syria to "fight ISIS" - except when it's shelling Kurds and the Syrian Army (which is all of the time). The reality is that Turkey and Saudi Arabia have been using ISIL in their proxy war to take over Syria.
Quote:
Update: At least two sources confirm that Turkey also fired on the Syrian army on Saturday, an exceptionally provocative move.
Update: Washington has now weighed in and is asking the Turks to please stop shelling the soldiers the Pentagon is arming. [Kurds]
* * *
Even as all sides - including the US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and select rebel groups - pretend to be working towards a ceasefire and a diplomatic solution to the five year conflict in Syria, actions speak louder than words, and to put it as succinctly as possible, everyone is still fighting.
In fact, the fighting is more intense than ever. Russia and Hezbollah are closing in on Aleppo, the country’s largest city and a key urban center where rebels are dug in for what amounts to a last stand. If the city is liberated by the government (and yes, “liberated” is more accurate than “falls” because occupied territory belongs to the Syrian government, not to Sunni extremists), Assad will have regained control of the country’s backbone in the west.
That would effectively mean the end of the rebellion and the Gulf monarchies, not to mention Turkey, are not happy about it. “The main battle is about cutting the road between Aleppo and Turkey, for Turkey is the main conduit of supplies for the terrorists,” [Yes, terrorists- SIGNY] Assad said in an interview with AFP on Friday.
That supply line has been severed and now, it’s do or die time for the rebels’ Sunni benefactors in Ankara, Riyadh, and Doha. Either intervene or watch as Hezbollah rolls up the opposition under cover of Russian airstrikes, restoring the Assad government and securing the Shiite crescent for the Iranians.
As we documented extensively this week, the Saudis and the Turks are now set to invade. Assad has promised to “confront them”, which of course means that the IRGC and Hassan Nasrallah's army are set to come into direct contact with Turkish and Saudi troops, setting the stage for an all-out sectarian war that will almost invariably end up pitting NATO against the Russians. Note that this is different from Yemen, where Tehran fights via proxies rather than directly against the Saudi military.
On Saturday the stakes were raised when Turkey said Saudi Arabia is set to send warplanes to Incirlik.
As a reminder, access to Incirlik was the carrot Erdogan used last summer to convince NATO to acquiesce to Ankara’s brutal crackdown on the PKK. “Let me wage war against my political rivals, and you can use our airbase,” is a fair approximation of Erdogan’s proposition.
Now, it appears the Saudis are set to use the base as a staging ground for strikes in Syria.
As RT reports, “Saudi Arabia is to deploy military jets and personnel to Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base in the south of the country.”
Of course the excuse is the same as it ever was for everyone involved: "the fight against ISIS."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-13/turkey-says-massive-escalatio
n-syria-imminent-saudis-set-launch-airstrikes
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Preserved for the future. Quote in which THUGGER FREELY! admits he's so stupid he doesn't care WHO wins - even if it's the Nazis in Ukraine or ISIS in Syria - they're A-OK! As long as Russia loses. I already figured out a loooong time ago that's what you think, idiot. Why else do you think I've been pointing and laughing at you all this time? - KIKI
I've said it before and I'll say it again; eat shit comrades. I am an American who believes the sooner the Russian economy crashes beyond repair because of Russia's behavior in Georgia, the Ukraine and Syria the better. - THUGR
THUGR, have you never had a WTF??? moment when contemplating that the USA turned EVERY (literally) secular nation in the ME into smoking ruins, filled with neck-sawing jihadists??? Do you have any thoughts about why the USA would ally itself with a head-chopping wahhabist monarchy in Saudi Arabia?
What is your explanation (if any) for the continuous trail of destruction that the USA left ... Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, Libya, and Syria?
Any thoughts?
Or just mindlessness?
I am always willing to discuss the mistakes America has made. Just not with you or any other Russian propagandizing troll. Now because you are trolling 24/7, having an honest discussion about things takes a back seat to exposing you.
Also, because you and 1kiki will interrupt any honest discussion with deflecting lies and bullshit designed to promote the agenda of Putin, I have come to realize it is pointless in many cases to even try.
This is the biggest tragedy of them all. Liars like you asshole are responsible for honest people leaving these discussion threads for greener pastures. I just like taking you on so no worries there.
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"I am always willing to discuss the mistakes America has made. Just not with you or any other Russian propagandizing troll. "
Aside from ALWAYS and JUST NOT being mutually exclusive assertions ... Really? Because discussing US 'mistakes' is a topic that you not only won't enter into with either of us - you won't apparently discuss it with anyone else here, either. That's a topic I don't recall you bringing up, ever, with anyone. 'Always'? Try 'never'.
In fact, not only do you not discuss that topic, you post nothing substantive about any topic - at all. You post little else except personal opinion. And why do I say that? You never bring evidence to the table. You don't even bring information. Or links. It's just you, all you, blah blah blah-ing away. Endlessly.
You are 'Sometimes in error, never in doubt.'
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"I am always willing to discuss the mistakes America has made. Just not with you or any other Russian propagandizing troll. "
Aside from ALWAYS and JUST NOT being mutually exclusive assertions ... Really? Because discussing US 'mistakes' is a topic that you not only won't enter into with either of us - you won't apparently discuss it with anyone else here, either. That's a topic I don't recall you bringing up, ever, with anyone. 'Always'? Try 'never'.
In fact, not only do you not discuss that topic, you post nothing substantive about any topic - at all. You post little else except personal opinion. And why do I say that? You never bring evidence to the table. You don't even bring information. Or links. It's just you, all you, blah blah blah-ing away. Endlessly.
You are 'Sometimes in error, never in doubt.'
You and SIG play the roll here of Russian propagandists. Any discussion or topic raised is polluted by you SIG and others who have ideological agendas. It's what's wrong with these threads. You lie, change sourced text to present your points of view and misrepresent what others say to you in response, which shows you to have no class whatsoever. Exposing and confounding you is all that is left to do.
It's fun
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It's just you, all you, blah blah blah-ing away. Endlessly.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's just you, all you, blah blah blah-ing away. Endlessly.
That's precious. It's you, you and SIG. You have yet to do anything but blah,balh anything but negative about the West, it's leaders and it's people. It's a constant.
Here's another constant.
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That's precious. [plagiarized]
It's you, you and [plagiarized]
You have yet [plagiarized]
to do [plagiarized]
anything but blah,balh [sic] [plagiarized]
anything but negative about the West [plagiarized]
it's [sic] leaders and it's [sic] [plagiarized]
people. [plagiarized]
It's a constant.[plagiarized]
Here's another constant. [plagiarized]
THUGR'S intellect is towering. It's a towering pile of shit, but still, it's impressive!
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Washington's Dismal Comedy Of Terrors - When In Doubt Bomb Syria
Quote:The main reason why my support for Bernie is only lukewarm. He's against REPUBLICANS destroying Mideast nations, but quite OK with Democrats doing the same thing. C'mon, Bernie! You can do better than that! The Jewish vote isn't THAT big!
Poor ISIS. Try as they might, the men in black still can’t out-terrorize their enemies or, more pointedly, even their patrons. For the past three years, decapitations have served as the money shots for ISIS’s theater of cruelty. Then on New Year’s Day the Saudis upstaged ISIS by audaciously chopping off the heads of 47 men, including a prominent Shia cleric.
This act of brazen butchery is made all the more horrific by virtue of the fact that the Saudi head-slicers recently landed a seat on the UN Human Rights Council, largely at the insistence of British Prime Minister David Cameron, who personally vouched for the petro-autocracy’s acute sensitivity to matters of civil liberties and the humane treatment of prisoners. Then again the drone-troika of Britain, France and the U.S. also enjoy seats on the council, so perhaps the Saudis have earned their slot after all.
With his peculiar fondness for porcine heads, Cameron is probably the Kingdom’s most un-kosher ally, but he is far from Saudi Arabia’s only political cheerleader. Showing a stunning lack of judgment, Comandante Bernie Sanders says his Syrian strategy relies on the Saudis taking the lead in the fight against ISIS
Quote:
“They’ve got to get their hands dirty,” Sanders inveighed to Wolf Blitzer on CNN. “They’ve got to get their troops on the ground. They’ve got to win that war with our support. We cannot be leading the effort.”
Apparently Sanders skipped the briefing on how ISIS’s apocalyptic ideology has been fueled by fire-breathing Wahhabi preachers financed by the Saudi royal family. The red senator also seems ignorant of the fact that ISIS functions as shock troops for the House of Saud in its proxy war against Iran, now raging in Yemen and Iraq, as well as Syria. You’d think that Bernie would be getting better advice from his friends in Israeli intelligence.
Sanders’ policy on Syria is naïve to the point of doltishness. But Hillary’s Syrian war plan—shared by most of her Republican rivals—borders on the pathological. Having not missed a minute of sleep haunted by the corpses of Libya, Mrs. Clinton is now stumping for the dismantling of Syria, using the carefully cultivated domestic anxiety over ISIS as the pretext. The cornerstone of Hillary’s rogue scheme is the imposition of a no fly zone over that embattled country.
Sounds like a relatively benign plan, right? But wait. ISIS doesn’t have an air force. They don’t even a have drone. Russia, of course, is flying daily sorties in Syrian air space, at the invitation of the Syrian government, such as it is, and some kind of confrontation would be inevitable. Still, Hillary doesn’t flinch. She has zealously vowed to shoot down any Russian plane that violated her unilateral ban.
Yet NATO’s latest recruit, Turkey, jumped the gun. Erdogan’s trigger-happy generals didn’t wait for any such fanciful legalisms and downed a Russian jet for momentarily breaching (perhaps) Turkish airspace. Then Turkamen fighters gleefully trained their machine-guns on the plane’s pilots as they slowly parachuted toward the desert. Vladimir Putin fulminated boisterously to his domestic audience, but prudently declined to retaliate against the Turks, perhaps intuiting that it would snap a tripwire for a full-frontal confrontation with NATO.
Everyone has been consulted about the future of Syria, except the Syrians themselves.
As usual. But nobody consulted the Libyans, either. Or the Iraqis or the Afghanis. Or, come to think of it, the Ukrainians, and significant minority of which didn't want the results of the coup. [Yes, KPO, it WAS a coup. You would recognize that fact if it happened in any other nation that you hadn't been thorough
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Turkey continues to shell Kurds in Syria.
Meanwhile, Four plus one forces are advancing rapidly towards Raqqa to forestall an "anti-ISIS" invasion by Saudi Arabia and the USA.
http://southfront.org/international-military-review-syria-feb-15-2016/
http://southfront.org/15-02-2016-crisis-news/
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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'Thank you Russia!' Life after the siege for pro-regime Syrians
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/12/middleeast/syria-inside-nubl-after-siege/
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
"Doctors Without Borders did not say which group or military had fired the rockets"
You're digging pretty deep there, GSTRING. Usually, if the western press doesn't say WHO committed the shelling, it's because "their side", did it. And unsurprisingly, according to ZH it was Turkey that shelled a children's hospital.
Quote:
You have to be alive to say thanks.
Are you fucking kidding me? Do you think the people in the video haven't figured that out by now?
Because even knowing that their lives were at risk while their town was being liberated- all things considered, they're glad the terrorists are gone. And you're trying to invalidate their experience and their response (from your lofty, comfortable, safe existence ) because it doesn't match the way you think they "should" feel. Maybe you should argue with them, and not me. Tell THEM they shouldn't be grateful.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
"Doctors Without Borders did not say which group or military had fired the rockets"
You're digging pretty deep there, GSTRING. Usually, if the western press doesn't say WHO committed the shelling, it's because "their side", did it. And unsurprisingly, according to ZH it was Turkey that shelled a children's hospital. - SIGNY
Wasn't it you that said Russia owned the skies? -GSTRING
DOOD, ARTILLERY shelling. Ground to ground, from Turkish positions into Syria. My god, it's like talking to bowl of cereal.
Quote:Because you say that like some sort of news to the people on the ground. They know the trade-off.
Are you fucking kidding me? Do you think the people in the video haven't figured that out by now?
Because even knowing that their lives were at risk while their town was being liberated- all things considered, they're glad the terrorists are gone. And you're trying to invalidate their experience and their response (from your lofty, comfortable, safe existence ) because it doesn't match the way you think they "should" feel. Maybe you should argue with them, and not me. Tell THEM they shouldn't be grateful.- SIGNY
Are you fucking kidding EVERYONE??? How is "you have to be alive to say thanks" telling them how to feel?
And as far as being grateful the people there aren't saying "Thank Allah it stopped", they're posting pictures of Assad and Hassan Nasrallah (Hezbollah Imam) and Ruhollah Khomeini (Iranian Imam)... pretty pointed "thanks", if you ask me. And they know what they're doing, without you trying to re-interpret their actions for them.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And as far as being grateful the people there aren't saying "Thank Allah it stopped", they're posting pictures of Assad and Hassan Nasrallah (Hezbollah Imam) and Ruhollah Khomeini (Iranian Imam)... pretty pointed "thanks", if you ask me. And they know what they're doing, without you trying to re-interpret their actions for them.
Duh-ood - they're thanking their new masters. People rolled out the welcome wagon when ISIS rolled in too. It's called survival. Don't mistake it for anything else.
So now, everyone is a craven coward because NOBODY in their right mind would welcome government troops??
This is your problem, in a nutshell: You just can't believe that anyone might have different motivations than you. You can't believe anyone would willingly join ISIL, and you can't believe anyone would willingly support Assad. You can't believe anyone would willingly fight Kiev, either. Any time anyone expresses an opinion that you don't share, they're either mistaken, or they're forced into it. Because they're all REALLY just GSTRING under the skin, or if they're not- they should be. There's just no other right way to think, except the way GSTRING thinks.
Here's the way it works, son: SOME of the people who could run- ran. With the approach of Sunni jihadists towards Aleppo, Xtians, Druze, Alawites, etc who could run - ran. SOME of "the people" welcomed jihadism. WHY? Because they were Sunnis theocrats under-the-skin who wanted to impose their theocracy on everyone. SOME of the population fought. Why? Because they were not Sunni theocrats under-the-skin, and they viewed the Sunni theocrats as an existential threat. MANY ducked their heads and tried to hang on, hoping for help from elsewhere. Why? Because they had neither the physical nor emotional capacity to fight OR to run, so they "hid". And SOME, through either fear or reward, changed sides and joined the jihadists ... they collaborated.
With the current approach of four plus one troops, those who are running are mostly Sunni theocrats and their collaborators (and family) because they fear retribution. Yanno, kind of like what happened after WWII with Nazi collaborators. It's as simple as that, and ... you should have figured that out by now.
The fact that you have to castigate an entire people as collaborators... some of whom are against Sunni theocracy and terrorism ... says an awful lot about you. It says that you can't differentiate among groups and see (much less accept) their diverse motivations. That explains your failure to understand that MANY Syrians support Assad. It explains your failure to recognize that nearly all of the Crimean population happily voted to secede from Ukraine, and a third of Ukrainians were angry with or afraid of the new regime in Kiev. It explains your failure to see that at least a third of Libyans STRONGLY supported Qaddafi, which is why "the war" required NATO bombing and tons (literally) of Qatari and Saudi support. And that Iraq would head in three entirely different directions. You so strongly assume that everyone feels (or should feel) the way GSTRING feels that entire groups ... quite possibly close to three-quarters of the globe ... of people are invalid/ invisible to you, and anything they say is dismissable as cowardice or collaboration.
I'm using a lot of words hoping that SOME of them will get through, but here's the point: You're on the wrong side of this moral equation. You, THUGR, and KPO. Somehow, you've wound up on the side of ISIL and jihadism. How did you get there?
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TURKS SHELL SYRIAN KURDS FOR FOURTH STRAIGHT DAY
"Maybe if they kept their women in burqas Uncle Sam would stick up for them"
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Quote:
DOOD, ARTILLERY shelling. Ground to ground, from Turkish positions into Syria.
Enough lies. The MSF has said that this was an airstrike by Russia/the Assad regime. Why would they lie? But Russia denies it so I guess you side with Russia?
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Ah yes... isn't this the same western press that said that Assad gassed his own people???
Well, put that news article in quarantine before you get all huffy and start flouncing around.
First of all, while Russia COULD blow any airplane out of the sky ... and that is presumably the reason why Turkey is shelling cross-border instead of flying jets overhead ... Russia and the USA have agreed to DECONFLICT the skies over Syria. In other words, the USA provides advance notice to the Russians about their airflights and Russia agrees not to shoot them down. And presumably vice-versa.
So there ARE USA-coalition airflights over Syria, and in fact the USA claims USA-coalition bombings over western and southern Syria TO THIS DAY, by agreement. There are also Syrian government planes flying the skies ... it's a pretty busy airspace. Or, would you prefer they all start shooting at each other and start WWIII?
In addition, the initial reports suggest something much different: Deconstructing Al Jazeera's report
Quote:Three hospitals and one school. Other reports said five hospitals and three schools.
At least 21 people have been killed and dozens others injured in air strikes and rocket attacks on a school and three hospitals in separate locations in northern Syria,
Quote:FROM WHOM? Al Jazeera is a Qatari outlet, and a natural ally of Turkey in bringing down Assad's government. Are the reports coming from Turkey, which isn't at all reliable and has been involved in anti- Assad false flags before.
Al Jazeera has learned.
Quote:Ok, from the jihadists.
In the deadliest incident, at least 14 people were killed and about 30 injured when air strikes and rocket artillery damaged parts of a hospital in the town of Azaz in Aleppo province, the media office at the rebel-controlled Aleppo local council said on Monday.
Quote:So presumably at the same time.
In the same raid, a school where refugees were sheltering was also hit. No death toll has been confirmed.
Quote:Birds of a feather ...
Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said in a news conference in Kiev
Quote:Wait, isn't this supposed to be airstrikes? There was further detail from Davutoglu in another article saying that it was Russian ballistic missiles from the Caspian Sea.
on Monday that a Russian ballistic missile hit the school and hospital in Azaz.
Quote:I guess they didn't get their story straight!
The head of the [TURKISH] media office, Abu Thaer al-Halabi, told Al Jazeera that a section of a highway that facilitates the main supply line for humanitarian aid to the region was destroyed in the raids. Halabi also said the strikes were carried out by Russian jets.
Quote:That's the second hospital.
MSF hospital hit
Meanwhile, two strikes on Monday morning targeted a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders (MSF) in the town of Maaret al-Numan in Idlib province, killing at least seven people.
Quote:Missiles of unknown origin. Could be from planes or from the ground, not specified which.
The medical humanitarian organisation said the hospital was hit by four missiles in two attacks within a few minutes of each other. Five patients, a caretaker and a hospital guard were killed, MSF said. Eight members of staff are missing, presumed dead, while other patients are also missing, but their numbers are currently unknown, the group added.
"There were at least seven deaths among the personnel and the patients, and at least eight MSF personnel have disappeared. We don't know if they are alive," Mego Terzian told the Reuters news agency, adding that he believed Russia or Syrian government forces were behind the attack.
Quote:This is one guy in London. It makes about as much sense to quote him as it does to quote one person in Cuba about American human rights violations. Grain of salt.
Earlier, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights
Quote:
said nine people, i
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Turkey seeks allies' support for ground operation as Syria war nears border
[Don't forget- Turkey is ISIL's main supplier in Syria- SIGNY]
Quote:
Turkey, Saudi Arabia and some European allies [Germany? - SIGNY] want ground troops deployed in Syria as a Russian-backed government advance nears NATO's southeastern border, Turkey's foreign minister said, but Washington has so far ruled out a major offensive.
Syrian government forces made fresh advances on Tuesday, as did Kurdish militia, both at the expense of rebels whose positions have been collapsing in recent weeks under the Russian-backed onslaught.
The offensive, supported by Iranian-backed Shi'ite militias as well as Russian air strikes, has brought the Syrian army to within 25 km (15 miles) of Turkey's frontier, while Kurdish fighters, regarded by Ankara as hostile insurgents, have extended their presence along the border.
The advances have increased the risk of a military confrontation between Russia and Turkey. Turkish artillery returned fire into Syria for a fourth straight day on Tuesday, targeting the Kurdish YPG militia which Ankara says is being backed by Moscow.
"Some countries like us, Saudi Arabia and some other Western European countries have said that a ground operation is necessary," Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told Reuters in an interview.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-idUSKCN0
VP0WO
Let's hope Obama isn't as spineless as he as been in the past. He should, in theory, cut ties with Turkey and tell Erdogan to go to hell. In practice, I doubt that will happen.
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MSF/ Doctors Without Borders, and the USA State Department (and other USA governmental functions)
Quote:
In MSF’s recent history, no decision to halt or redirect medical operations has been influenced by counterterrorism restrictions. Our withdrawal from Darfur in 2009 was triggered by an expulsion order from President Omar Hassan al-Bashir at a time when MSF was operating with a license from the U.S. Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), a requirement for conducting humanitarian work in certain countries..[ but] ... While limited to date in their direct impact on beneficiaries and at the point of care, counterterrorism regimes have nonetheless provoked a “chilling effect” on humanitarian assistance. The bureaucratic obstacles generated by the U.S. counterterrorism framework have become a reality for all U.S. aid organizations, even more so if they are Muslim. Counterterrorist restrictions also impact bank transactions, insurance coverage, and international trade, and while not designed to constrain humanitarian action per se, they create a risk-averse business climate that slows the deployment of supplies and aid workers. Recently, two United States based pharmaceutical manufacturers refused to complete orders for urgently needed drugs for MSF’s programs in Sudan, Syria, and Libya, despite specific licenses from OFAC for MSF’s Sudan programs and general humanitarian licenses for Libya and Syria.
https://phap.org/articles/condemned-to-resist
MSF needs cooperation from the USA Treasury in order to use banking services etc. Not that MSF would deliberately lie, but they depend on the largess of the west and cooperation from various western banking and security organizations.
The French President of MSF who accused Russia... was he there?
Did he personally witness (probably not) or did his subordinates observe aircraft?
If so, does he, or do they, know the profile of a Russian-made aircraft versus a Syrian one versus the USA's? (I only know of one distinguishing feature, and even that's not reliable. Otherwise, they all look the same to me!)
Evidence. That's what's missing.
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As if I care which muslims Russia kills. Good job Vladdy!
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Quote:
Russia and the USA have agreed to DECONFLICT the skies over Syria. In other words, the USA provides advance notice to the Russians about their airflights and Russia agrees not to shoot them down. And presumably vice-versa.- SIGNY
Presumably... important word.
"Hey, 'Vlad, just wanted to let you know we're going to be flying over Aleppo today if that's ok with you. We super swear not to bomb anyone on your team. I'm looking at the calendar and it looks like you guys are "shirts" today, so dress appropriately. Hopefully we'll be able to take out some civilians or a hospital or both if we're lucky. I need a Roger on that."= GSTRING
The fact that Russia and the USA have de-conflicted the skies is both a matter of signed agreement (written record of intention) and a matter of fact. When a Turkish jet downed a Russian jet over Syria, there was much discussion of the exact boundaries of the de-confliction. The USA insisted that the de-confliction only applied to USA (and USA coalition?) planes, not to unrelated USA allies like Turkey, which is a member of NATO.
Once that little misunderstanding was cleared up, Turkey has not had the temerity to violate Syrian skies.
There is some reason to think that Russian information-gathering about air operations is not as real-time or detailed as they might like. When the USA claimed that Russian jets struck a hospital in Aleppo last week, the Russians went back to their records and counter-claimed that it was American A-10 Thunderbolts that did the job ... but they did that a few days later. So either they don't have a perfect handle on the who-and-where, or they're just trying to be really careful with their statements.
Quote:
"The only entities that would seem to benefit would be Turkey, ISIL, al Qaida and their allies because it provides the ammunition (so to speak) for the imposition of a "no fly" zone, as Merkel has proposed."- SIGNY
OR it could help the still-very-much-alive civilians on the ground, the ones Russia hasn't bombed yet or just unlucky enough to be caught between angry men with guns. You still care about them or are they just another piece in your guessing game? - DSTRING
That's ASSUMING that the majority of civilian deaths ... and especially hospital and school strikes .... are caused by airstrikes. For example, there was a huge hue and cry about Syria's use of "barrel bombs" and a drive to bomb Syria's airport runways and make it impossible for them to put planes into the sky. Once an analysis was done, it turned out that barrel bombs were responsible for a miniscule fraction of civilian deaths ... as I recall, it was less than 2% ... and so any move along those lines would have had a negligible effect on that figure. That, plus barrel bombs need to be dropped by helicopter, and helicopters don't need runways.
Of course, it's difficult to collect statistics in government-controlled areas, difficult is Ahrar ash Sham/ al Nusra areas, and impossible in ISIL-controlled areas. What this means is that deaths due to small-arms fire, mines, IEDs etc are definitely UNDER-reported in comparison to government-controlled area airstrike deaths. EVEN SO,
Quote:
According to SOHR, [That's that one guy in London- SIGNY] Russian airstrikes in Syria killed 3,578 people, of which: 965 were ISIS fighters, 1,233 militants from the Al-Qaeda affiliate al-Nusra Front and other rebel forces and 1,380 civilians. The air strikes occurred in the period between 30 September 2015 and 30 January 2016.
Overall, we can combine that with stats showing that in this counting,m about 30,000 deaths were from shootings and mass killings, about 30,000 from artillery and rocket attacks, and about 20,000 from airstrikes. Remember, those person-to-person deaths are probably under-reported.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/09/14/world/middleeast/syria-w
ar-deaths.html
This would all seem to indicate that airstrike
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Yep, way to go Russia. You bombed 5 hospitals and 2 schools in the same day. If Russians are OK with this then they truly are pieces of shit. They deserve all the misery they have experienced throughout history, currently and yet to come. It's called an eye for an eye. You reap what you sow. What comes around goes around. Spit into the wind and you get a face full of spit. What you do onto others they will do onto you. What you give is what you get.
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Quote:Ah, this fairy tale coup that you're convinced took place but can't provide any evidence for
the Ukrainians, and significant minority of which didn't want the results of the coup. [Yes, KPO, it WAS a coup.
C'mon Sig, you yourself collected definitions for what constitutes a 'coup' - so where's the evidence for all of this happening in Kiev on Feb 21st 2014?"a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially: the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group"
"the sudden and illegal seizure of a state, usually instigated by a small group"
"A quick and decisive extra-legal seizure of governmental power by a relatively small but highly organized group of political or military leaders, typically by means of the unexpected arrest or assassination of the incumbent chief executive and his principal supporters within the government."
Quote:
Then the FSA can be bombed with their ISIL/ ahrar ash Sham/ al nusra / al Qaida allies.
The FSA allied with ISIS?? Evidence??
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First of all, KPO, the definitions that you quoted for a coup describe what happened in Ukraine. Where is the mismatch?
Quote:
The FSA allied with ISIS?? Evidence??
Oh my god, KPO, you are clueless! Everybody's been reporting on that for at least a year now. The Israelis, the Brits, Americans, Lebanese, Syrians ... why don't you get your head out of your ass once in a while and stop reading the BBC?
First of all there are a lot of smaller groups which call themselves the FSA, about half of them nominally report to the head of the "FSA" but the other half ... So some groups have allied with ISIL, others with al Nusra or Ahrar ash Sham or other extremist groups, SOME were fighting against both the Syrian government and the extremists until they got completely overwhelmed. So, yes, parts of the FSA have allied with ISIL. There are just too many reports of that happening to link all of them, so here is a sampling from various sources (and none of them Russian):
U.S. Bombings Driving anti-Assad Rebels Into Alliance With ISIS, Report Says
Quote:
Rebels fighting President Bashar Assad's regime in Syria are being driven into alliances with the Islamic State group, The Guardian reported on Sunday, based on a series of interviews.
While fighters from the Free Syrian Army are joining the group, also known as ISIS or ISIL, civilian support in the terror group has also swelled.
"All the locals here wonder why the U.S. coalition never came to rescue them from Assad’s machine guns, but run to fight ISIS when it took a few pieces of land," an FSA commander named Abu Zeid was quoted as saying.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.628208
'Vetted Moderate' Free Syrian Army Commander Admits Alliance with ISIS, Confirms PJ Media Reporting
On Monday, the Daily Star in Lebanon quoted a FSA brigade commander saying that his forces were working with the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Qaeda's official Syrian affiliate -- both U.S.-designated terrorist organizations -- near the Syrian/Lebanon border.
Quote:
“We are collaborating with the Islamic State and the Nusra Front by attacking the Syrian Army’s gatherings in ... Qalamoun,” said Bassel Idriss, the commander of an FSA-aligned rebel brigade.
“We have reached a point where we have to collaborate with anyone against unfairness and injustice,” confirmed Abu Khaled, another FSA commander who lives in Arsal.
“Let’s face it: The Nusra Front is the biggest power present right now in Qalamoun and we as FSA would collaborate on any mission they launch as long as it coincides with our values,” he added.
https://pjmedia.com/blog/vetted-moderate-free-syrian-army-commander-ad
mits-alliance-with-isis-confirms-pj-media-reporting/
US-Backed Moderate Group In Syria Signs Truce With ISIS: Reports
Quote:
Moderate and Islamist rebel groups in a Damascus suburb in Syria signed a “non-aggression” agreement with the Islamic State (ISIS), a Syrian monitoring group said. Some of the brigades are part of the U.S.-backed Syrian Revolutionary Front but have now agreed to a truce in Hajar al-Assad with ISIS in order to take down Syrian President Bashar Assad, according to the Agence-France Press. The shifting alliances highlight the challenge faced by the Obama administration in its fight against ISIS in Syria: Even moderates supported by the U.S. can't be relied on to help battle the terrorist group.
"The two parties will respect a truce until a final solution is found and they promise not to attack each other because they consider the principal enemy to be the Nussayri regime," the U.K-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported. (Nussayri is the pejorative term used for Assad’s Alawite regime.)
http://www.ibtimes.com/us-backed-moderate-group-syria-signs-truce-isis
-reports-1687662
--------------
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'Russian operation in Syria is our salvation' – top Syrian Catholic bishop to RT
Quote:
The majority of Syrian people support Moscow's anti-terror campaign, the top Catholic bishop in Syria said in an interview with RT, adding that it's not only military assistance, but the promotion of peace process by Russia that they pin their hopes on.
"We see Russia's military operation as a real effort to fight terrorism. What is especially important is that this military campaign goes in parallel with promotion of peace process," Most Reverend Georges Abou Khazen, Apostolic Vicar of Aleppo for the Latins who was appointed by Pope Francis in 2013, told RT in a telephone interview. "We really hope that the peace process will soon prevail over fighting all across Syria," the bishop added.
"The majority of Syrian people" of all backgrounds and faith "regard Russian military campaign as salvation, a way out of the state we've been enduring for five years," the Catholic bishop said, adding that "Syrians are very positive about it."
"Russia's actions are not limited to the military operation. Russia makes a very positive impact by stimulating the negotiations process, and promotes dialogue between various Syrian groups," Bisoph Abou Khazen said.
Syrian minorities have been especially suffering from the conflict, the bishop told RT. Noting that there are over 20 religious and ethnic groups in the Syrian society, the Aleppo vicar said that before the conflict they've all lived in harmony. "Our pre-war society was like a beautiful multicolored mosaic. But unfortunately, it has been destroyed," he said.
Describing the harsh conditions that his congregation and other Syrians have been living in, the vicar said that there is no electricity in Aleppo and water supplies have been disrupted. "The lack of water is what has really made our lives harder," he said, adding that people have been living without water supplies for over a month now.
Many families have fled the violence and the conditions caused by constant fighting, Bishop Abou Khazen told RT, but added: "In light of recent military advances in the Aleppo region, we hope that tension will ease and situation in the city will improve."
Last week, leaders of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches, Vatican's Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia have held a historic meeting in Havana, Cuba. After the first ever face-to-face talks, a joint declaration has been signed, in which a special attention is given to the situation in the Middle East.
Saying that challenges of the situation in Syria, Iraq and other countries in the region with "the massive exodus of Christians from the land in which our faith was first disseminated," require "a shared response," the religious leaders called upon the international community "to act urgently."
"We wish to express our compassion for the suffering experienced by the faithful of other religious traditions who have also become victims of civil war, chaos and terrorist violence," the joint declaration said, with Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill urging global leaders "to seek an end" to the violence in Syria and Iraq
https://www.rt.com/news/332922-aleppo-bishop-russia-support/
ETA ...
This is another thing I'm sure you won't believe, because it just doesn't fit within your ideology, because you're good and Russia is bad and therefore how can anyone be for Russia? Just like you thought the people who were celebrating their liberation from extremists were ... oh, I dunno ... mistaken, or cowards, or were somehow unaware of the cost in terms of lives that their liberation meant, I'm sure you'll find some reason to discredit this statement by the Bishop of Syria, just as you've found reasons to discredit the statement by my Syrian Xtian acquaintance from four years ago.
As an aside, I lis
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Quote:
First of all, KPO, the definitions that you quoted for a coup describe what happened in Ukraine.
They were YOUR definitions, and why can't you provide links/evidence for this happening in Kiev on Feb 21st 2014 (the day Yanukovich fled Kiev), if this is in fact what happened?
Quote:
So, yes, parts of the FSA have allied with ISIL. There are just too many reports of that happening to link all of them, so here is a sampling from various sources (and none of them Russian):
Ha, well I appreciate you going out of your way to find them then.
Quote:
U.S. Bombings Driving anti-Assad Rebels Into Alliance With ISIS, Report Says
If you'd read the Guardian report, which I'm guessing you haven't, at least not critically, then you would see that there is nothing in there about a formal alliance between the FSA and ISIS. So when you say "the FSA and their ISIS allies" you are speaking pure bullshit. What the report does talk about is individual rebel fighters or brigades splintering off from the FSA and joining ISIS (often for money or food, despite what they say, and to outcry amongst the rest of the FSA). The report also talks about individual FSA groups making truces with ISIS. A truce, in case you didn't realise, is not an alliance. The report is based on a series of interviews, chief of which is with an ISIS fighter and as such should be treated with extreme caution. "All these rebel groups are joining us and swearing their allegiance to us! The civilians in the areas we control love us!" Yeah right.
Quote:
US-Backed Moderate Group In Syria Signs Truce With ISIS: Reports
A truce is not an alliance! A truce, in fact, implies recent hostilities - hardly what you would expect from allies and friends.
Quote:
On Monday, the Daily Star in Lebanon quoted a FSA brigade commander saying that his forces were working with the Islamic State
A single example of a single FSA-aligned brigade (out of hundreds) cooperating with ISIS - back in 2014. Weigh that against all of the FSA brigades constantly fighting ISIS (more reliably than the Syrian regime and Russia) and you still say that the FSA is allies with ISIS? Only Russian propaganda can make someone this dumb. LOL that you immediately followed up your post by linking an RT article, by the way.
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There are too many reports for me to link them all. I can link some more, if you want, but that will just make you look even more stupid and stubbornly ignorant than you already do.
First of all, nobody said ... especially not me ... that "the FSA" has allied itself with ISIL (or other extremist groups).
The "FSA" is a group of smaller organizations under a common banner (in order to be labeled as "moderate" terrorists ... er, I mean rebels ... in order to get USA support) and not necessarily under a common command.
The fact that smaller groups and even individuals have joined ISIL ... al Nusra, Arhar ash Sham, and the too many other extremist groups to even name ... should tell you about the nature of many of the groups and individuals fighting under the "FSA" banner. Because they aren't really "pro-democracy freedom fighters", what they really are is anti-Assad sectarian Sunnis, who can't establish their strict theocracy as long as Assad is in power and the government is officially secular.
And, in reality, some of the groups HAVE allied with ISIL (and other extremist groups) while maintaining their individual identity.
What you have just demonstrated, KPO, is that the "pro-democracy FSA" is a fiction. There is no such thing. There are a few individuals who still want democracy in Syria, but they aren't the FSA. And in fact, the BBC just floated a discussion last night that maybe the future of Syria shouldn't be decided by a vote after all, so even your vaunted government is revealing its true intentions. (see my addendum to the Catholic Bishop post above.)
--------------
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Quote:
There are too many reports for me to link them all.
Try quality over quantity. And try ones that actually back up what you claim.
Quote:
First of all, nobody said ... especially not me ... that "the FSA" has allied itself with ISIL
You're backtracking (or lying), and you are right to do so. Because you are wrong. Your words:
Signy:"Then the FSA can be bombed with their ISIL/ ahrar ash Sham/ al nusra / al Qaida allies."
The rest of the nonsense in your post I will let go.
Where is this 'coup' evidence for Kiev on Feb 21st 2014?
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In today's twisted BBC reporting, while ...
Russia to call U.N. Security Council session on Syria on Friday
Quote:
Russia's foreign ministry said it intends to call a session of the United Nations Security Council on Friday to discuss the Turkish government's statements about a possible ground operation in Syria.
Russia plans to table a Security Council resolution demanding an end to actions that undermine Syria's sovereignty, ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in a statement posted on the ministry's Internet site.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-un-idUSK
CN0VS1Z0
Turkish military force burned alive around 150 Kurds Sirnak Province
Quote:(Shades of Odessa!)
“In Cizre district of Sirnak, around 150 people have been burned alive in different buildings by Turkish military forces. Some corpses were found without heads. Some were burned completely, so that autopsy is not possible,” [Pro-Kurdish MP] Uca said on Thursday.
http://katehon.com/news/turkish-military-force-burned-alive-around-150
-kurds-sirnak-province
ISIS used chemical weapons against the Kurds, US officials say
Quote:
The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used chemical weapons against the Kurdish peshmerga in August, two U.S. defense officials tell The Hill. The officials said they have confirmed that ISIS used chemical weapons during fighting in northern Iraq and that the Kurdish military — a staunch ally of the United States — was targeted.
“We can confirm some type of chemical weapon was employed by ISIL in that August mortar attack,” a U.S. defense official told The Hill on the condition of anonymity, using another acronym for ISIS.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/269551-isis-used-chemical-weapons-ag
ainst-the-kurds-us-officials-say
... what is the BBC's message of the day [the only item about Kurds or Syria on the current website]?
Turkey says US arms used by Syria Kurds, blamed for Ankara blast
Quote:
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said he will tell President Barack Obama that US weapons have helped Syrian Kurds, blamed by Turkey for Wednesday's Ankara bombing.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35612531
BAD KURDS! BAD KURDS! Not worthy of US support!
--------------
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Oh for gods' sake ... I have repeatedly said, both before and after that post, that the FSA is hodge-podge of individuals and groups. I have repeatedly referenced the parts of the FSA which have chosen to fight BOTH ISIL and the SAA (Syrian Arab Army), and parts which have either defected to, or allied with extremist groups.
So, to the context of that quote ... First of all, I'm quoting YOU, and YOUR generalized characterization of "the FSA". What YOU posted was ...
Quote:
FSA and other rebel groups say they won't lay down their weapons until Russia stops its bombing campaign on their cities.
The link that you provided with that statement doesn't contain it. So your quote is corrupted, and I can't find the source that you were drawing from.
As far as "the FSA" (no such thing) and its alliance with ISIL or other extremist groups ... if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. The part of the FSA that made that statement ... whatever part that is... has clearly thrown in its lot with the extremists. So let them all be bombed together, I don't care and I doubt Russia or Syria does either, whether you characterize their relationship as an alliance or a coalition or an association really doesn't matter: They have joined their force of arms in a common cause and will be treated as a common enemy.
As for your other points, I'm not going to engage in continued conversation with someone who refuses to acknowledge the obvious: Without the violence of the Maidan, Yanukovich would not have fled and been rescued, and there would have been early elections in a few months. The change of power was violent, and non-democratic. It was a coup.
It doesn't matter whether you think you're making points here or not. If you choose to hang on to that boulder of ignorance while you're going under, that's your problem, not mine, and you'll continue to neither understand nor be able to predict what happens next.
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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In today's twisted BBC reporting, while ...
Russia to call U.N. Security Council session on Syria on Friday
Quote:
Russia's foreign ministry said it intends to call a session of the United Nations Security Council on Friday to discuss the Turkish government's statements about a possible ground operation in Syria.
Russia plans to table a Security Council resolution demanding an end to actions that undermine Syria's sovereignty, ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in a statement posted on the ministry's Internet site.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-un-idUSK
CN0VS1Z0
Turkish military force burned alive around 150 Kurds Sirnak Province
Quote:(Shades of Odessa!)
“In Cizre district of Sirnak, around 150 people have been burned alive in different buildings by Turkish military forces. Some corpses were found without heads. Some were burned completely, so that autopsy is not possible,” [Pro-Kurdish MP] Uca said on Thursday.
http://katehon.com/news/turkish-military-force-burned-alive-around-150
-kurds-sirnak-province
ISIS used chemical weapons against the Kurds, US officials say
Quote:
The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used chemical weapons against the Kurdish peshmerga in August, two U.S. defense officials tell The Hill. The officials said they have confirmed that ISIS used chemical weapons during fighting in northern Iraq and that the Kurdish military — a staunch ally of the United States — was targeted.
“We can confirm some type of chemical weapon was employed by ISIL in that August mortar attack,” a U.S. defense official told The Hill on the condition of anonymity, using another acronym for ISIS.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/269551-isis-used-chemical-weapons-ag
ainst-the-kurds-us-officials-say
... what is the BBC's message of the day [the only item about Kurds or Syria on the current website]?
Turkey says US arms used by Syria Kurds, blamed for Ankara blast
Quote:
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said he will tell President Barack Obama that US weapons have helped Syrian Kurds, blamed by Turkey for Wednesday's Ankara bombing.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35612531
BAD KURDS! BAD KURDS! Not worthy of US support!
--------------
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'Russian operation in Syria is our salvation' – top Syrian Catholic bishop to RT
Quote:
The majority of Syrian people support Moscow's anti-terror campaign, the top Catholic bishop in Syria said in an interview with RT, adding that it's not only military assistance, but the promotion of peace process by Russia that they pin their hopes on.
"We see Russia's military operation as a real effort to fight terrorism. What is especially important is that this military campaign goes in parallel with promotion of peace process," Most Reverend Georges Abou Khazen, Apostolic Vicar of Aleppo for the Latins who was appointed by Pope Francis in 2013, told RT in a telephone interview. "We really hope that the peace process will soon prevail over fighting all across Syria," the bishop added.
"The majority of Syrian people" of all backgrounds and faith "regard Russian military campaign as salvation, a way out of the state we've been enduring for five years," the Catholic bishop said, adding that "Syrians are very positive about it."
"Russia's actions are not limited to the military operation. Russia makes a very positive impact by stimulating the negotiations process, and promotes dialogue between various Syrian groups," Bisoph Abou Khazen said.
Syrian minorities have been especially suffering from the conflict, the bishop told RT. Noting that there are over 20 religious and ethnic groups in the Syrian society, the Aleppo vicar said that before the conflict they've all lived in harmony. "Our pre-war society was like a beautiful multicolored mosaic. But unfortunately, it has been destroyed," he said.
Describing the harsh conditions that his congregation and other Syrians have been living in, the vicar said that there is no electricity in Aleppo and water supplies have been disrupted. "The lack of water is what has really made our lives harder," he said, adding that people have been living without water supplies for over a month now.
Many families have fled the violence and the conditions caused by constant fighting, Bishop Abou Khazen told RT, but added: "In light of recent military advances in the Aleppo region, we hope that tension will ease and situation in the city will improve."
Last week, leaders of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches, Vatican's Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia have held a historic meeting in Havana, Cuba. After the first ever face-to-face talks, a joint declaration has been signed, in which a special attention is given to the situation in the Middle East.
Saying that challenges of the situation in Syria, Iraq and other countries in the region with "the massive exodus of Christians from the land in which our faith was first disseminated," require "a shared response," the religious leaders called upon the international community "to act urgently."
"We wish to express our compassion for the suffering experienced by the faithful of other religious traditions who have also become victims of civil war, chaos and terrorist violence," the joint declaration said, with Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill urging global leaders "to seek an end" to the violence in Syria and Iraq
https://www.rt.com/news/332922-aleppo-bishop-russia-support/
ETA ...
This is another thing I'm sure you won't believe, because it just doesn't fit within your ideology, because you're good and Russia is bad and therefore how can anyone be for Russia? Just like you thought the people who were celebrating their liberation from extremists were ... oh, I dunno ... mistaken, or cowards, or were somehow unaware of the cost in terms of lives that their liberation meant, I'm sure you'll find some reason to discredit this statement by the Bishop of Syria, just as you've found reasons to discredit the statement by my Syrian Xtian acquaintance from four years ago.
As an aside, I lis
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G: You're as insane as those commentators.
Quote:
From your buddies at putin.com:
https://www.rt.com/business/318746-russia-turkey-trade-projects/
This was from Oct 2015. Once the Russian jet was shot down, I think the Russian government became willing to shit-can the entire Russian-Turkish effort. They have stopped, or dropped, every major contract since then, including the gas pipeline and the nuclear reactor, and have sanctioned Turkish agricultural products and have delayed others with endless "inspections" at the border. You think Russia will back down? I don't think so. Putin once spoke of "Life after Erdogan". Once that idiot is gone, I'm sure the Russians will test the waters again- but not before.
Quote:
Of course they should. They are suggesting that Turkey could/might/maybe want to protect that supply line with military means. Not knowing the context of the statement it's hard to be sure, but that is likely a true statement no matter what and no matter who they are supplying.
OMFG, I can't believe what an idiot you are.
WHAT supply line is that??? It's the supply line from Turkey to the extremists in Syria, including ISIL in Raqqa.
Now, why in god's name should Syria protect supply lines within its own borders, which are supplying their terrorist enemies? To put it in terms you MIGHT understand that would be like the USA protecting Cuban supply lines to Cuban terrorists in FLA. You're either posting drunk, or posting in complete ignorance, or both. You're pathetic.
Quote:
"....because as long as it remains uncertain, people will continue to fight over it." Brilliant - truer words were never spoken. Assad is not "certainty." Non of the rabble lined up against him are either. Even Russia understands this.
Uncertainty. That's precisely why they are where they are, and why the situation drags so many people into it. It's bad for every one to have an uncertain Syria.
ANOTHER part of the BBC interview was a historical perspective on civil wars, and how they were resolved. Pre-cold war, they were usually resolved by military victory.
Post-cold war, half were resolved by military victory, and half were negotiated. Of the military victories, half were won by the established government, and half were won by the insurgents. Military victories were more durable than negotiated settlements, which tended to break down more often. Proxy wars lasted longer (7 years) than internal civil wars (5 years). What I got out of that is that the Russians should nail the terrorists' hides to the wall, drive all foreign actors out of Syria, and Assad should achieve total victory. THAT would be certainty and according to a historical perspective it would provide a more certain future than anything currently proposed.
--------------
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
'Russian operation in Syria is our salvation' – top Syrian Catholic bishop to RT
Don't duplicate your posts Signy. You copied and pasted this entire RT article just a few posts earlier (once was bad enough). And your post before that was also a duplicate of one of your own posts from just half an hour earlier... Let me remind you these are discussion forums, not opportunities for you to spam for the motherland. Desist.
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Quote:
Without the violence of the Maidan, Yanukovich would not have fled and been rescued
'The violence of the Maidan...' is about as vague a statement as you can make. What violence are you referring to, specifically? People throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at riot police?
Quote:
The change of power was violent... It was a coup.
Leaving aside that revolutions in history often involve violence, and you are completely backtracking on your own definition of a 'coup'; what violence are you referring to that took place on Feb 21st, when the change of power happened?
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Well, your posts are pretty much spam. I didn't want your idiocy to be the last thing that people saw when they left the thread, because it's easy to bury points in a flurry of stupid posts. Which, frankly, your posts and G's and THUGR's pretty much qualify for. (I'm just waiting for that ever-fresh "comrade troll" post from THGUR!)
So, how about responding to the post, then?' Yanno, discuss the point? In case you missed it here it is:
Quote:
Russian operation in Syria is our salvation' – top Syrian Catholic bishop to RTQuote:
The majority of Syrian people support Moscow's anti-terror campaign, the top Catholic bishop in Syria said in an interview with RT, adding that it's not only military assistance, but the promotion of peace process by Russia that they pin their hopes on.
"We see Russia's military operation as a real effort to fight terrorism. What is especially important is that this military campaign goes in parallel with promotion of peace process," Most Reverend Georges Abou Khazen, Apostolic Vicar of Aleppo for the Latins who was appointed by Pope Francis in 2013, told RT in a telephone interview. "We really hope that the peace process will soon prevail over fighting all across Syria," the bishop added.
"The majority of Syrian people" of all backgrounds and faith "regard Russian military campaign as salvation, a way out of the state we've been enduring for five years," the Catholic bishop said, adding that "Syrians are very positive about it."
"Russia's actions are not limited to the military operation. Russia makes a very positive impact by stimulating the negotiations process, and promotes dialogue between various Syrian groups," Bisoph Abou Khazen said.
Syrian minorities have been especially suffering from the conflict, the bishop told RT. Noting that there are over 20 religious and ethnic groups in the Syrian society, the Aleppo vicar said that before the conflict they've all lived in harmony. "Our pre-war society was like a beautiful multicolored mosaic. But unfortunately, it has been destroyed," he said.
Describing the harsh conditions that his congregation and other Syrians have been living in, the vicar said that there is no electricity in Aleppo and water supplies have been disrupted. "The lack of water is what has really made our lives harder," he said, adding that people have been living without water supplies for over a month now.
Many families have fled the violence and the conditions caused by constant fighting, Bishop Abou Khazen told RT, but added: "In light of recent military advances in the Aleppo region, we hope that tension will ease and situation in the city will improve."
Last week, leaders of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches, Vatican's Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia have held a historic meeting in Havana, Cuba. After the first ever face-to-face talks, a joint declaration has been signed, in which a special attention is given to the situation in the Middle East.
Saying that challenges of the situation in Syria, Iraq and other countries in the region with "the massive exodus of Christians from the land in which our faith was first disseminated," require "a shared response," the religious leaders called upon the international community "to act urgently."
"We wish to express our compassion for the suffering experienced by the faithful of other religious traditions who have also become victims of civil war, chaos and terrorist violence," the joint declaration said, with Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill urging global leaders "to seek an end" to the violence in Syria and Iraq
https://www.rt.com/news/332922-aleppo-bishop-russia-support/
ETA ...
This is another thing I'm sure you won't believe, because it just doesn't fit within your ideology, because you're good and Russia is bad and
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Quote:The answer is "no". But please take this to another thread. Like one about Ukraine, maybe.
Originally posted by kpo:Quote:
Without the violence of the Maidan, Yanukovich would not have fled and been rescued
'The violence of the Maidan...' is about as vague a statement as you can make. What violence are you referring to, specifically? People throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at riot police?
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:Quote:
Without the violence of the Maidan, Yanukovich would not have fled and been rescued
'The violence of the Maidan...' is about as vague a statement as you can make. What violence are you referring to, specifically? People throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at riot police?Quote:
The change of power was violent... It was a coup.
Leaving aside that revolutions in history often involve violence, and you are completely backtracking on your own definition of a 'coup'; what violence are you referring to that took place on Feb 21st, when the change of power happened?
Correction, the change of power was Feb 22nd, when the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovich from office.
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So you go and paste the RT article again. Stop spamming for the motherland Siggy.
Quote:
So, how about responding to the post, then?
It's Russian state propaganda, why would I respond to it, or even read it?
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Quote:
...why would I respond to it, or even read it?
Because it's a statement by the Catholic Bishop in Syria, and you might want to know his POV? Because this is a discussion board, as you so helpfully pointed out?
Yanno, I read and listen to BBC and a wide variety of sources. I'm sorry that you're so intellectually fragile that you can't handle the truth if it's outside of your very small bubble. Ir's terribly unfortunate for you that you think that anyone who has a different POV than you is illegitimate, even if he is the Bishop of Syria. But in case you missed it, this is what the Syrian Catholic Bishop thinks...
Russian operation in Syria is our salvation' – top Syrian Catholic bishop to RT
Quote:
The majority of Syrian people support Moscow's anti-terror campaign, the top Catholic bishop in Syria said in an interview with RT, adding that it's not only military assistance, but the promotion of peace process by Russia that they pin their hopes on.
"We see Russia's military operation as a real effort to fight terrorism. What is especially important is that this military campaign goes in parallel with promotion of peace process," Most Reverend Georges Abou Khazen, Apostolic Vicar of Aleppo for the Latins who was appointed by Pope Francis in 2013, told RT in a telephone interview. "We really hope that the peace process will soon prevail over fighting all across Syria," the bishop added.
"The majority of Syrian people" of all backgrounds and faith "regard Russian military campaign as salvation, a way out of the state we've been enduring for five years," the Catholic bishop said, adding that "Syrians are very positive about it."
"Russia's actions are not limited to the military operation. Russia makes a very positive impact by stimulating the negotiations process, and promotes dialogue between various Syrian groups," Bisoph Abou Khazen said.
Syrian minorities have been especially suffering from the conflict, the bishop told RT. Noting that there are over 20 religious and ethnic groups in the Syrian society, the Aleppo vicar said that before the conflict they've all lived in harmony. "Our pre-war society was like a beautiful multicolored mosaic. But unfortunately, it has been destroyed," he said.
Describing the harsh conditions that his congregation and other Syrians have been living in, the vicar said that there is no electricity in Aleppo and water supplies have been disrupted. "The lack of water is what has really made our lives harder," he said, adding that people have been living without water supplies for over a month now.
Many families have fled the violence and the conditions caused by constant fighting, Bishop Abou Khazen told RT, but added: "In light of recent military advances in the Aleppo region, we hope that tension will ease and situation in the city will improve."
Last week, leaders of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches, Vatican's Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia have held a historic meeting in Havana, Cuba. After the first ever face-to-face talks, a joint declaration has been signed, in which a special attention is given to the situation in the Middle East.
Saying that challenges of the situation in Syria, Iraq and other countries in the region with "the massive exodus of Christians from the land in which our faith was first disseminated," require "a shared response," the religious leaders called upon the international community "to act urgently."
"We wish to express our compassion for the suffering experienced by the faithful of other religious traditions who have also become victims of civil war, chaos and terrorist violence," the joint declaration said, with Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill urging global leaders "to seek an end" to the violence in Syria and Iraq
https://www.r
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Stop spamming the thread with your RT article Sig.
Back to the subject of the thread. War crimes. Airstrikes in rebel-held Douma target civilian first responders (typical Russian tactic):
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Hmmm... let's see:
No coverage of this on any other media, not even on Syria direct.
No sound of warplanes overhead.
A single explosion, not multiple ones, which may be something else (like a propane tank or can of stove-fuel exploding).
No indication that these are "first responders"; if anything the constant refrain of Allahu Akhbar sort of indicates that these are Islamist extremists.
That's pretty thin there, KPO, which indicates that you're ready to swallow anything that satisfies your ideological anti-Russian addiction, even potentially-terrorist propaganda.
Meanwhile, the Bishop of Syria hopes for Russian success
Russian operation in Syria is our salvation' – top Syrian Catholic bishop to RT
Quote:
The majority of Syrian people support Moscow's anti-terror campaign, the top Catholic bishop in Syria said in an interview with RT, adding that it's not only military assistance, but the promotion of peace process by Russia that they pin their hopes on.
"We see Russia's military operation as a real effort to fight terrorism. What is especially important is that this military campaign goes in parallel with promotion of peace process," Most Reverend Georges Abou Khazen, Apostolic Vicar of Aleppo for the Latins who was appointed by Pope Francis in 2013, told RT in a telephone interview. "We really hope that the peace process will soon prevail over fighting all across Syria," the bishop added.
"The majority of Syrian people" of all backgrounds and faith "regard Russian military campaign as salvation, a way out of the state we've been enduring for five years," the Catholic bishop said, adding that "Syrians are very positive about it."
"Russia's actions are not limited to the military operation. Russia makes a very positive impact by stimulating the negotiations process, and promotes dialogue between various Syrian groups," Bisoph Abou Khazen said.
Syrian minorities have been especially suffering from the conflict, the bishop told RT. Noting that there are over 20 religious and ethnic groups in the Syrian society, the Aleppo vicar said that before the conflict they've all lived in harmony. "Our pre-war society was like a beautiful multicolored mosaic. But unfortunately, it has been destroyed," he said.
Describing the harsh conditions that his congregation and other Syrians have been living in, the vicar said that there is no electricity in Aleppo and water supplies have been disrupted. "The lack of water is what has really made our lives harder," he said, adding that people have been living without water supplies for over a month now.
Many families have fled the violence and the conditions caused by constant fighting, Bishop Abou Khazen told RT, but added: "In light of recent military advances in the Aleppo region, we hope that tension will ease and situation in the city will improve."
Last week, leaders of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches, Vatican's Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia have held a historic meeting in Havana, Cuba. After the first ever face-to-face talks, a joint declaration has been signed, in which a special attention is given to the situation in the Middle East.
Saying that challenges of the situation in Syria, Iraq and other countries in the region with "the massive exodus of Christians from the land in which our faith was first disseminated," require "a shared response," the religious leaders called upon the international community "to act urgently."
"We wish to express our compassion for the suffering experienced by the faithful of other religious traditions who have also become victims of civil war, chaos and terrorist violence," the joint declaration said, with Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill urging global leaders "to seek an end" to the violence in Syria and Iraq
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GSTRING:
So YOUR response to the Syrian Bishop is that RT made this up, or distorted the content? And the fact that his English is "too good" makes you suspicious?
First of all, if he doesn't speak English, there ARE good translators available. Or did you not know that?
Second, yes, some people DO speak like that. The speaker is not just some random person off the street, he's a highly-educated Church official. Plus, I've had the oppty to both read and watch other educated people from the region- particularly Hassan Nasrallah, head of Hezbollah, and he is not a fiery orator spouting Allahu Akbar endlessly; he speaks in complex flowing sentences in measured cadences and human tone. He kind of reminds me of one of the Pastors of my Catholic Church back in the day ... but that's another story.
Thirdly, officials of powerful organizations are highly aware of what is being said by them, and about them. The Bishop's secretary CERTAINLY read over RT's coverage of the interview; if there were any misrepresentation the Bishop would complain to RT, and he would have the power of the Catholic Church to back him up. I doubt misrepresentation would be allowed.
Fourth, there is a Catholic YouTube report on the Synod of Bishops of ANOTHER Catholic Bishop who says virtually the same thing (first few minutes only, but if you want to hear how a foreign-language Bishop sounds, forward to the end):
Syrian Bishop Lauds Russian Intervention - Perspectives Daily
So either this Bishop is being misquoted by everyone, or this is pretty much what they've been saying for some time now.
Quote:Well, since you find it "telling", what does it tell you? 70% of the official Syrian government army is Sunni. That's a statistic that can be verified.
I find this telling, how there's a break in the quoting where rt adds in some editorial content:
"The majority of Syrian people" of all backgrounds and faith "regard Russian military campaign as salvation, a way out of the state we've been enduring for five years," the Catholic bishop said, adding that "Syrians are very positive about it."
Quote:
It's another rt fluff editorial propaganda piece. The fact that you can't see it or acknowledge it is not surprising.
It is an expression of support from an important Catholic official in Syria. I didn't post it to provide the latest military updates, but to show you that there are perspectives DIFFERENT THAN YOURS. Of course, you're doing exactly what I said you would do:
You're doing your best to invalidate anything that anyone says which doesn't match exactly what you think.
So you try your best to "invalidate" what I say, and what the liberated Syrians say, and what the Catholic Bishop says, and what my Syrian acquaintance said, and I'm sure if a vote were to be held in Syria where Assad was voted back into power you would find a way to mentally "invalidate" that too. So, first of all, you're an opinion-Nazi. You think that everyone should believe as you believe, because anything else is just "wrong" or doesn't exist. Secondly, you can do your best to explain away things that you don't like, but you really can't invalidate reality. But hey, have fun trying!
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Quote:
The best summation piece so far imho - a better, more objective pov:-GSTRING
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/putins-winning-in-syria-but-making-
a-powerful-new-enemy/
Quote:This is what I've been saying all along.
Russia’s bombing of the city of Aleppo this week sent a clear message: Vladimir Putin is now in charge of the endgame in Syria. Moscow’s plan — essentially, to restore its ally Bashar al-Assad to power — is quickly becoming a reality that the rest of the world will have to accept. America, Britain and the rest may not be comfortable with Putin’s ambitions in the Middle East, or his methods of achieving them. But the idea of backing a ‘moderate opposition’ in Syria has been proved a fantasy that leaves the field to Putin and Assad.
Quote:Ah, those infamous "terrorist targets" quotation marks! Since the "FSA" - whatever it is- has made common cause with ISIL and other foreign extremist groups, they should share the same fate. Or they can lay down their arms ... which some have done.
The Syrian partial ceasefire, brokered in Munich last week by America’s John Kerry, only served to reinforce this sense of Putin’s power. Under the terms of the deal, all combatants were to cease hostilities while humanitarian aid was delivered to rebel enclaves besieged by government troops. Except Russia, whose planes have continued bombing ‘terrorist targets’ — and since Assad insists that all his enemies are ‘terrorists’, the Munich ceasefire effectively means business as usual for Russian and Syrian warplanes.
Quote:The infamous "they". And "them". Those are the words you use when you don't know who, exactly
In recent days, they
Quote:Did you know that MSF did NOT provide the coordinates of its makeshift treatment centers to the Syrian government?
have bombed Médecins Sans Frontières hospitals in rebel-held Idlib and Azaz
Quote:The FSA- whatever it is- has taken up arms against the government and has either defected to ISIL and other extremists groups, or called a cease-fire with them to focus on Assad, or formed a coalition of sorts. Trying to tease the "FSA" apart from other extremist groups is well-nigh impossible, unless they lay down their arms.
and "Free Syrian Army" positions in the northern suburbs of Aleppo. In response to international condemnation, the Russian foreign ministry has declared that it ‘has still not received convincing evidence of civilian deaths as a result of Russian air strikes’.
Quote:Been saying that too, while KPO, G, and THUGR have been busy denying Russia's success.
Presidents Putin and Obama have both sought to intervene in the conflict militarily, but all the successes have been Russia’s.
Quote:"rebel". Phffft! The area is widely regarded as being held by al Nusra and other foreign fighters.
Between August 2014 and December last year, the US Air Force made 4,669 air strikes to aid Syria’s elusive ‘moderate opposition’ and degrade ISIS. But while this made little impact strategically, Russian air power has proved decisive. Since last September, a single squadron of Russian bombers flying some 510 sorties a week has turned the balance of the war in Assad’s favour. Russian armour and tanks have reinvigorated the Syrian army’s battered forces. Ostensibly flown in to protect the Khmeimim airbase, Russian T-90 tanks have since been reported in the vanguard of Syrian army assaults on rebel strongholds south of Aleppo.
Quote:Yep, said that too
Putin is also seeking to reconcile Syria’s warring factions. While the Pentagon spent billions trying to train an army of democracy–friendly moderates which turned out not to exist
Quote:
Russian military intelligence has been working with its Syrian counterparts to identify rebel groups who would be willing to cut a deal with Assad. The senior Syrian officer corps was largely trained in M
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And now, for a bit of speculation:
According to RT
US 'concerned' about Syrian Army & Kurdish Syria gains, urges stopping actions upsetting Turks
Quote:And he presumably said this with a straight face!
The US president has sided with Turkey and warned the Syrian Kurdish militia not to seize more territory in Syria to avoid upsetting Ankara or the so-called “moderate” opposition. Obama voiced support for Erdogan against the Kurdistan Workers’ Party.
In a long phone conversation that lasted an hour and twenty minutes, Obama told his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan that the US has an “unwavering commitment” to Turkey’s national security.
Obama said he is “concerned” about the Syrian Army’s and Kurdish fighters’ gains in northern Syria as he “urgently called for a halt to actions that heighten tensions with Turkey and with moderate opposition forces in northern Syria,” according to a statement from the White House.
The US president stressed that the ongoing advance of Syrian armed forces and Kurdish militia, with support from the Russian Air Force, could “undermine our collective efforts in northern Syria to degrade and defeat ISIL.”
Quote:Because cross-border shelling is OK
While advising Erdogan to show “reciprocal restraint” and avoid shelling northern Syria where Ankara is engaging Kurds
Quote:
Obama stressed that “YPG forces should not seek to exploit circumstances in this area to seize additional territory.”
Do you remember those 50 USA Special Forces that were parachuted somewhere into "northern Syria"? Where do you suppose they're operating?
According to some speculation, the YPG (the Kurdish forces in far northeastern Syria) aren't on the forefront of the drive to close the "gap" on the Syrian Turkish border thru which arms and fighters flow to ISIL in Syria. According to this speculation, it's a conglomerate of other fighting forces including Arabs and Turkmen loyal to Syria called Jaish al-Thuwar (Army of Revolutionaries), which are allied to the same Syrian Democratic Forces mentioned G's post. And according to speculation, this is where the Special Forces are operating: in the drive to take Azaz back from Al Nusra.
Interestingly, what this might mean is a split between the USA Pentagon (Special Forces and Syrian allies) and the USA CIA (al Nusra etc.) That might be one of the reasons why the USA wants the Russians and SAA to hold back from Azaz and "the gap". Well, WE don't know where these spec ops are taking place, but Obama knows EXACTLY where they are!
In the same article
Quote:Because the USA still wants to intervene militarily?
Earlier in the day, Washington [and France] rejected a Russian draft resolution at the UN Security Council condemning any plans for foreign military intervention in Syria. Ambassador Samantha Power even accused Moscow of trying to “distract the world” with its resolution.
And again from the same article
Quote:
De Mistura told Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet that the peace talks won't resume in Geneva on February 25 as he had hoped. He said he can’t "realistically" get the parties in the Syrian conflict back to negotiations by that time. However, he added that he hopes the parties will gather “soon.”
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If you've been wondering about Aleppo, here is an interesting article about life in the city as it is now, by Peter Osborne
Journey to Aleppo: How the war ripped Syria's biggest city apart
http://www.middleeasteye.net/essays/journey-aleppo-how-war-ripped-syri
as-biggest-city-apart-1376989223#sthash.a8griASo.dpuf
It describes the hardships and the fracturing, even of families, between al Nusra and the Syrian government, and also the views of Syrians in Jordanian refugee camps. People speak of crimes by everyone: al Nusra, the FSA, Assad, and Iranians.
Syrian Army sitrep as of Sept 19
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:
I find this telling, how there's a break in the quoting where rt adds in some editorial content:
"The majority of Syrian people" of all backgrounds and faith "regard Russian military campaign as salvation, a way out of the state we've been enduring for five years," the Catholic bishop said, adding that "Syrians are very positive about it."
Wonder what else they added?
Ha, good spot G. Exactly what you would expect from a propaganda outlet for the Russian state - an 'interview' where they add in extra words where the Bishop doesn't quite hit the Kremlin's editorial line, and hope you don't notice.
And exactly the reason why no one should read RT, Sputnik or any other of Signy's cherished propaganda outlets masquerading as 'news' sources.
Signy you've embarrassed yourself enough, kindly stop repeatedly spamming the thread with this article.
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Quote:
If you've been wondering about Aleppo, here is an interesting article about life in the city as it is now, by Peter Osborne
Ah, the article by erratic anti-Western journalist Peter Oborne. I was wondering when you were going to post this.
To his credit he does make this confession, deep into the article:
Quote:
"I should state that I stayed exclusively in government-held areas. I made no attempt to cross the lines into rebel zones (I would have been kidnapped [Also the Syrian government doesn't let journalists into the areas it besieges - KPO]). Government minders accompanied me throughout the trip and were present at almost every conversation. But I am as certain as I can be that people told me the truth as they saw it."
You'll forgive me if I take your interview quotes with a pinch of salt, Peter, since you were escorted everywhere and your conversations were watched over by Government minders of the most brutal, murderous regime of the century?
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Well, you're embarrassing yourself, KPO, because if you read my post to G about that Syrian Catholic Bishop, you'll see why the article should be accurate given the context of the interview, and also a YouTube link which a Catholic-based website reports on another Syrian Catholic Bishop saying exactly the same thing.
Also, did you not wonder why the Orthodox Pope and the Catholic Pope met in Cuba, and not the USA? It must be because they share the same anti-Communist bent that you do! (not)
Whole posts of yours, and G's, consist of 'Nyah nyah nyah, I can't hear you'. Closed-minded much?
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Syrian army, allies advance against Islamic State in eastern Aleppo - reports
Quote:
Syria's army and allies, backed by Russian air strikes, recaptured 18 villages from Islamic State fighters in eastern Aleppo province on Saturday, a monitoring group said. The advance extended their control of parts of a road running towards the jihadist group's stronghold of Raqqa, and built on gains made in assaults that intensified sharply earlier this month.
Damascus's offensive, drawing heavily on Russian air cover and ground support from Lebanese Hezbollah and Iranian fighters, has brought the Syrian army to within 25 km (15 miles) of Turkey's border. The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Syria's army and allied fighters recaptured 18 villages east of Aleppo, bringing under their control some 40 km (25 miles) of a highway that leads from the city to Raqqa.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-aleppo-idUKKCN0V
T0UN
Well, aside from the military gains reported here, there are three other pieces of information that one can glean from this article
1) Aleppo was controlled at least in part by ISIL. The idea that it was just "Syrian rebels" who took control of Aleppo was like the belief in the existence of the "FSA"- a fantasy.
2) Given that Aleppo was controlled at least in part by ISIL, I think we can ditch the propaganda point that Russia was just focusing on 'the rebels'. I could go into the tactical and strategic reasons why the Four plus one did what they did ... but I'll let KPO, G, and THUGR figure that one out for themselves.
3) The article is missing the usual embedded anti-Russian propaganda. That should tell people something. Again, intelligent people can figure that one out for themselves.
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Quote:
And now, for a bit of speculation:
According to RT... - SIGNY
That should be on their masthead! You're a crack-up Sniggles.- GSTRING
The facts are from RT< the speculation is mine.
Yanno, you quoted an entire article from somewhere that you thought was "more objective", and yet it referenced the same facts that I quoted from elsewhere.
You have no response the the fact that nearly everything this "objective" article wrote, I posted here, long before? Does that make me "objective" too? And is that something you're too afraid to admit? "cause you've been avoiding those rather long posts ever since.
Quote:
Syrian army, allies advance against Islamic State in eastern Aleppo - reports
Syria's army and allies, backed by Russian air strikes, recaptured 18 villages from Islamic State fighters in eastern Aleppo province on Saturday, a monitoring group said. The advance extended their control of parts of a road running towards the jihadist group's stronghold of Raqqa, and built on gains made in assaults that intensified sharply earlier this month.
Damascus's offensive, drawing heavily on Russian air cover and ground support from Lebanese Hezbollah and Iranian fighters, has brought the Syrian army to within 25 km (15 miles) of Turkey's border. The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Syria's army and allied fighters recaptured 18 villages east of Aleppo, bringing under their control some 40 km (25 miles) of a highway that leads from the city to Raqqa.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-aleppo-idUKKCN0V
T0UN
Well, aside from the military gains reported here, there are three other pieces of information that one can glean from this article
1) Aleppo was controlled at least in part by ISIL. The idea that it was just "Syrian rebels" who took control of Aleppo was like the belief in the existence of the "FSA"- a fantasy.
2) Given that Aleppo was controlled at least in part by ISIL, I think we can ditch the propaganda point that Russia was just focusing on 'the rebels'. I could go into the tactical and strategic reasons why the Four plus one did what they did ... but I'll let KPO, G, and THUGR figure that one out for themselves.
3) The article is missing the usual embedded anti-Russian propaganda. That should tell people something. Again, intelligent people can figure that one out for themselves.
-SIGNY
You left out:
"Russia intervened in Syria's nearly five-year-old civil war in September with an air campaign to bolster Assad
I think Russia, I, and your objective article has already said that. For myself, I believe I've said that many times. This is not news.
Quote:Quote:
Its air strikes have hit Islamic State targets but mostly other insurgents, including Western- and Turkish-backed fighters.
Western and Turkish =backed fighters INCLUDE Islamist extremists and terrorists. My response to that point is- so what? Just because they're western-backed and Turksih-backed doesn't mean that they're "moderate". In fact, didn't your "objective" article concede that the idea of "moderate rebels" is a fantasy?
Quote:Quote:
U.S.-led air strikes are also hitting Islamic State in areas it controls in Raqqa, Deir al-Zor and Hasaka provinces in the north and east of the country."
I don't think you know the difference between "assumptions" and "lies."
"Given that Aleppo was controlled at least in part by ISIL" - what's that word you love? Evidence?- GSTRING
Oh, but who needs "evidence" GSTRING? Certainly NOT YOU! This is form REUTERS, after all, a solid western source, the kind you swallow hook, line, and sinker!
Quote:
3rd time - What again is Russia's gain from all this? Loosing billions worth of business with Turkey? Propping up a hated "dictator?
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Quote:And some facts are so obvious that you even can't deny them. Which you've done, over and over. When I have more time, I'll detail every fact that you denied (because it came from a source that you didn't "like", especially me) that you later thought was "objective".
Yanno, you quoted an entire article from somewhere that you thought was "more objective", and yet it referenced the same facts that I quoted from elsewhere.- SIGNY
Some facts are so obvious even you can't miss them.
Quote:Oh, bull. Everyone knows that you disagree with me on nearly everything I post. That whole "I've have [sic] exhaustively posted about agreeing with you on some things characterization doesn't even pass the laugh test for anyone who's been reading our exchanges. And the point is the information in THIS thread, not some mythical other topics. You accept information when it comes from some sources, and reject the exact same information when it comes through me.
I've have exhaustively posted about agreeing with you on some things
Yanno, if I were you, I'd reconsider how I assess information.
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Quote:When I parse through your posts to show you how you changed your mind 180 degrees depending on WHO said it, it will be obvious to everyone who reads it - except for you. I don't expect objectivity from you, because you're defending yourself.
I can't freakin' wait! It's going to be great to see how you twist my words to make your point! Half the time you confuse what poster said what! Please tell me we expect your favorite habit of presuming the negative from a statement! So even if someone didn't say something you will say they were obviously thinking it?! Ha! It always makes you look like a desperate fool but it's worth the laugh.
Quote:And this is yet another example of exactly the problem that you have with information. I guess you STILL don't get it!
I do consider how you assess information :) - you push it through a pro-Russian filter. That has been obvious since the 'Russia Invades Ukraine' thread over a year ago. You are still in denial. Thing is as long as Crimea is under Russian rule it is a cold hard fact. One that I expect you deny in your next post.
So yes - I am picky about sources, and you as a source is untrustworthy as hell. Even your choice of sources shows you to be a untrustworthy echo bot.
Quote:Then don't read the BBC, don't read any of the major media, don't listen to NPR.
I am more likely to trust sources that are not blatant propaganda for governments - you should try it (IF you can find one from Russia). I can't believe someone has to tell you that!
Quote:
I think a lifetime of trusting government shills acting as "reporters" has broken your objectivity when it comes to professional journalism. I'm not even sure you understand what that means or just how hard those pros work at finding the story amongst all the junk. And the more you make these sweeping, blanket statements about the "Western Press" being in the pocket of Big Gov, and how you try and smear their efforts, just underscores how much you realize the West has a much freer flow of information. Truth be told, I think you are jealous - of course you will not admit it!
That is not to say there isn't plenty of bad reporting in the West, or poorly concealed political agendas like in Russia. Fox comes to mind.
Ok, for anyone who is NOT G, please re-read the above statement.
G "trusts" some sources. But when I talk about sources, I NEVER talk about trust. That's because I don't "trust" ANY sources. What I try to do is analyze them.
G: I read websites and listen to radio from sources that your would consider to be our side and ALSO sources that you would consider to be their side. When I read BBC, or the NYT, or RT, or Sputnik News, or Xihnua, or the International Business Times, or Syria Today, or Kyiv Post, or any of the other couple-dozen websites that I go to for viewpoints, or listen to NPR or the BBC World Service, or watch YouTube, not only do they have different views of the same thing, they usually focus on entirely different things.
Reality is complex, and people see what they want or fear, or what the government or the media's corporate sponsors want or fear. Everyone has a POV. Nobody has the whole picture. NOT EVEN THOSE SOURCES THAT YOU "TRUST"
So taking into account that every media's POV is shaped differently, you need to try to understand what THEY want, what THEY fear, and try to figure out from THEIR POV whether the reported news makes sense. Cui bono? (to whose benefit?) is a very good question to ask, but first you need to understand the other's view of "benefit".
So, for example, the Libyan destruction was presented (to the west) as saving those poor people of Libya who were being massacred by that ogre Qaddafi and who only wanted to breathe free under democracy under some "right to protect" clause, when IN REALITY a large
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Just to give you an idea of how different the reportage is, here istoday's top headline from websites around the world
http://www.bbc.com/news
India caste unrest: 'Ten million without water' in Delhi
http://www.bloomberg.com/
The U.S. States Where Recession Is Already a Reality
cnn.com
Why Bush Stumbled
http://www.ibtimes.com/
China’s ‘Zombie Firms’ Threaten Global Growth
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/
Battle over who won the Hispanic vote in Nevada vote
http://www.reuters.com/
US-Russia draft calls for Syria ceasefire to start Feb. 27
https://www.rt.com/
‘He is paying for freedom of speech’: Palestinian journo on hunger strike near death (EXCLUSIVE)
http://sputniknews.com/
Liberation Continues: Syrian Army Regains Control Over Aleppo Supply Route
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/
Xi underscores CPC's leadership in news reporting
zerohedge.com
Safes Sell Out In Japan, 1,000 Franc Note Demand Soars As NIRP Triggers Cash Hoarding
Like I said: different worlds.
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'G'
... you never make a mistake and you're never wrong (what a 5 year old) ... You as a source will never be trusted without extensive verification - your bias and conceit are way too well known.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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"it is likely that all of these "headlines" will change throughout the day"
Just to show how little experience you have with world news, the answer is ... not really, except CNN and FOX as msm examples.
What appears to be updating during the day (for example the BBC and Reuters) has to do with time zones. When you (if you're in New York) look at the headlines at 08:00 it's already 13:00 in London and 14:00 in Berlin. (if you're in Los Angeles the numbers are 08:00, 16:00 and 17:00 respectively.) By the time you in New York look at the headlines again at 19:00 it's 24:00 in London and 01:00 in Berlin. It's already the next day and they're on to the next news day. (In Los Angeles those numbers are 19:00, 03:00 and 04:00 respectively.)
I know because I track those specific news sources every day, and I know they DON'T change during the day. Neither does the NYTimes, WashPost, or LATimes. Of the sources I track, the only ones that continually update during the day are CNN, FOX, and Zero Hedge.
BTW, the same time zone effect is even more true for other news sources even further away, like RT and Xinhua.
Your lack of knowledge and experience with international news is showing. Again.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Amnesty International joins the outcry against Russian war crimes in Syria: http://news.sky.com/story/1645573/russia-guilty-of-syria-war-crimes-sa
ys-amnesty
Report also contains footage (mercifully pixelated) of children and infants being pulled from the rubble after an airstrike in Aleppo.
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My mistake, Amnesty spoke out against Russian crimes back in December as well:
Quote:
Russian air strikes in Syria have killed hundreds of civilians and caused massive destruction in residential areas, striking homes, a mosque and a busy market, as well as medical facilities, in a pattern of attacks that show evidence of violations of international humanitarian law, said Amnesty International in a new briefing published today.
‘Civilian objects were not damaged’: Russia’s statements on its attacks in Syria unmasked highlights the high price civilians have paid for suspected Russian attacks across the country. The report focuses on six attacks in Homs, Idleb and Aleppo between September and November 2015 which killed at least 200 civilians and around a dozen fighters. The briefing includes evidence suggesting that Russian authorities may have lied to cover up civilian damage to a mosque from one air strike and a field hospital in another. It also documents evidence suggesting Russia’s use of internationally banned cluster munitions and of unguided bombs in populated residential areas.
“Some Russian air strikes appear to have directly attacked civilians or civilian objects by striking residential areas with no evident military target and even medical facilities, resulting in deaths and injuries to civilians. Such attacks may amount to war crimes,” said Philip Luther, Director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme at Amnesty International.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/12/syria-russias-shameful-
failure-to-acknowledge-civilian-killings/
Amnesty's methodology of research into the incidents:
Quote:
Amnesty International interviewed eyewitnesses and survivors of attacks as well as examining video evidence and images showing the aftermath of attacks, aided by analysis by weapons experts. The attacks were identified as suspected Russian air strikes by cross-referencing details of each attack with statements from the Russian Ministry of Defence announcing “terrorist” targets struck, or from details about the nature of the attack in witness testimony.
The organization’s research into these strikes indicate that there were no military targets or fighters in the immediate vicinity of the areas that were struck. This suggests that the attacks may have violated international humanitarian law and may, in some circumstances, constitute war crimes.
In one of the deadliest attacks documented in the briefing three missiles were fired on a busy market in the centre of Ariha in Idleb governorate killing 49 civilians. Witnesses described how within seconds the bustling Sunday market turned to a scene of carnage...
Follow the link and read on, if you have the stomach for it.
EDIT:
Oh what the hell I'm posting it anyway:
Quote:
...In just a few moments, people were screaming, the smell of burning was in the air and there was just chaos. There was a primary school nearby, and children were running out absolutely terrified… there were bodies everywhere, decapitated and mutilated,” said Mohammed Qurabi al-Ghazal, a local media activist.
He saw one woman sitting and crying beside 40 bodies lined up in a row. She had lost her husband and three children. ”Her children were literally in bags. To this day, I cannot get over it,” he added.
In another suspected Russian attack, at least 46 civilians, including 32 children and 11 women who were sheltering for safety in the basement of a residential building, were killed on 15 October in al-Ghantu, Homs governorate. Video footage of the scene after the attack shows no evidence of a military presence. Weapons experts who analysed images of the attack said the nature of the destruction indicated possible use of fuel-air explosives (also known as “vacuum bombs”), a type of weapon particularly prone to indiscriminate effects when used in the vicinity of civilians...
Russian government lies and deflection to cover up its atrocities:
Quote:
The Russian authorities’ reaction to an attack on Omar Bin al-Khattab mos
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
“Some Russian air strikes appear to have directly attacked civilians or civilian objects by striking residential areas with no evident military target and even medical facilities, resulting in deaths and injuries to civilians. Such attacks may amount to war crimes,” said Philip Luther, Director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme at Amnesty International.
It seems to be Russia's and Russian trolls' go-to response for these allegations - the "no response" response. We see it here even. "If I don't acknowledge it, then it didn't happen." Or, at the very least, it will go away sooner.
And even when they do try and "explain"... it's little green men time.Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Russian government lies and deflection to cover up its atrocities:
"The Russian authorities’ reaction to an attack on Omar Bin al-Khattab mosque in central Jisr al-Shughour, Idleb governorate, on 1 October raises serious questions about the tactics they are prepared to deploy to undermine criticism of their operations. After reports and photos of the destroyed mosque emerged, the Russian authorities responded by calling it a “hoax”, presenting a satellite image purporting to show the mosque still intact. However, the mosque shown in the image was a different one from the one destroyed in the attack.
“By presenting satellite imagery of an intact mosque and claiming it showed another that had been destroyed, the Russian authorities appear to have used sleight of hand to try to avoid reproach and avert scrutiny of their actions in Syria..."
The level of immaturity in their cover ups is what stands out to me - like a game almost - or like a junior high school kid trying to avoid parental detection. I only wish it was that funny.
Russia always addresses controversial issues by shaping their statements towards appeasing the home front. Then the comrade trolls fall in line and repeat the Russian talking points.
For the last year or so we here have witnessed this process in abundance.
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TEHRAN, Iran - Partial results released Sunday indicate that Iranian reformists will win all 30 parliamentary seats in Tehran, handing hard-liners an embarrassing defeat in the first elections held since last year's nuclear deal.
Rafsanjani, a former president himself and close ally of current President Rouhani, is leading the race for membership to the influential Assembly of Experts, a body that chooses Iran's most powerful figure, the supreme leader, according to Reuters.
State TV said Sunday that reformists -- who favor expanding social freedoms and improving relations with the West -- are set to win all of Tehran's seats. It said 62 percent of the capital's votes have been counted."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-hard-liners-defeated-parliamentary-el
ections-tehran/
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"Let me get this straight...You track those news sources every day, throughout the day, when you know they don't change?"
Hmmm ... did I say 'throughout'? Where did I say 'throughout'? What DID I say? I said "I know because I track those specific news sources every day, and I know they DON'T change during the day." Ie I check them in the AM and PM and I see they haven't changed.
So you've posted ANOTHER STRAWMAN!!! You must be working on setting some kind of trolling record! Or you really are just that stupid.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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"the "no response" response"
If any of you can learn to read what I post and reply to that, or post some, yanno, facts - instead of responding to the voices in your head, or posting about whatever it is you're hallucinating that day - I'll respond. But as long as you keep posting idiocy, like "Let me get this straight...", all I'll do is just keep pointing at you and laughing.
Maybe you'll eventually acquire some honesty and intelligence, and learn to discuss facts. But I'm not going to patiently wait for you all to grow up.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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"You took 5 days to come up with that answer?? "
You don't work? You don't have a family? Figures.
"My bad. When you said DURING the day I thought you meant DURING the day."
1. throughout the duration, continuance, or existence of:
2. at some time or point in the course of:
And you cherry pick definitions to cover up your weak language skills? Yeah, it goes along with your general dishonesty.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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This is why I'm not participating in this thread anymore:
1) It started out biased, like "Russian Invasion of Ukraine". If there was a thread about "WAR CRIMES IN SYRIA" - of which there are a-plenty - that would be more informative. But KPO - being the anti-Russian troll that he is - zeros right in on every presumed Russian infraction, and ignores proven ones like the ones ISIL is committing right now.
2) Just like the "Russian Invasion of Ukraine" thread KPO (and the two other stooges) takes every oppty to air that particular bee in his bonnet.
3) The thread gets its lifespan by attention. I refuse to pay attention to it from now. All of the time that I might have spent arguing minor points, I spent more productively recovering from surgery and managing my health better, going to a newly-discovered CA-native nursery, starting and re-potting plants, helping build a new computer, trying out new recipes, cleaning up, and being present for my family. What's the point of engaging fully-biased people who even REFUSE to look at a website because it might dirty their ideological skirt hems? After this, I'll refill the hummingbird feeders.
4) Just as an aside of how ridiculous G, KPO, and THUGR are: "G" - the top headlines that I posted were a SNAPSHOT- a 10-minute or less moment in time from various websites. Yes, some websites have "scrolling headlines", but for those which don't, I posted THE top headline at the moment, and for those which do they fortunately had a "Breaking news" headline which I chose. The point still stands: If you look at various websites- whether over a 10-minute or 24-hour or 1-week period, they present very different viewpoints, "updates" or not. Comparing ALL of the headlines across ALL of the websites at any one time, I'm fortunate if they overlap by 7%. Arguing over whether "updates" changes that fact ( it doesn't) is pointless - as are you.
5) I've found a much better discussion board- one that isn't filled by ideological trolls, like you three.
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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"Your work and family are so demanding you can't post?"
Yes.
I see you avoided the question. So, what's your excuse for endlessly trolling? No job? No family?
Figures.
And what's your excuse for your dishonesty? Oh, you have none, you say?
And what's your excuse for being so stupid you lied about a word definition of all things, something ANYONE could easily refute in under 30 seconds?
So, no job, no family, troll, dishonest AND stupid! You really got it going on, dontcha?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Great job, great family, not lying (you wish) or dishonest or stupid or trolling.
And yet, your obvious lying, trolling and stupidity are there for all to see. Like your little lie pretending that ;the; definition of 'during' can only mean throughout, continuously.
Which is why you're so funny. You're like a really not very bright kid, saying 'is TOOOO!' when all the grownups can see 'is not'. And the more you pretend to be right in your pompous yet impotent little way, stamping your little feet, the funnier you are.
So please, keep it up.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Syrian regime accused again of using Chlorine barrel bombs, by Israel this time: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-israel-idUSKCN0
W356M
Quote:
A fact-finding mission of the global chemical weapons watchdog (OPCW) concluded in 2014 that the use of chlorine gas has been "systematic" in the Syrian civil war, even after the country surrendered its stockpile of toxic weapons.
Both sides have denied using chlorine "barrel" bombs, which the OPCW said are dropped out of helicopters. The Syrian air force is the only party in the conflict known to have helicopters.
Hmm, well this doesn't take a genius...
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This is why I'm not participating in this thread anymore:
1) It started out biased, like "Russian Invasion of Ukraine". If there was a thread about "WAR CRIMES IN SYRIA" - of which there are a-plenty - that would be more informative. But KPO - being the anti-Russian troll that he is - zeros right in on every presumed Russian infraction, and ignores proven ones like the ones ISIL is committing right now.
2) Just like the "Russian Invasion of Ukraine" thread KPO (and the two other stooges) takes every oppty to air that particular bee in his bonnet.
3) The thread gets its lifespan by attention. I refuse to pay attention to it from now. All of the time that I might have spent arguing minor points, I spent more productively recovering from surgery and managing my health better, going to a newly-discovered CA-native nursery, starting and re-potting plants, helping build a new computer, trying out new recipes, cleaning up, and being present for my family. What's the point of engaging fully-biased people who even REFUSE to look at a website because it might dirty their ideological skirt hems? After this, I'll refill the hummingbird feeders.
4) Just as an aside of how ridiculous G, KPO, and THUGR are: "G" - the top headlines that I posted were a SNAPSHOT- a 10-minute or less moment in time from various websites. Yes, some websites have "scrolling headlines", but for those which don't, I posted THE top headline at the moment, and for those which do they fortunately had a "Breaking news" headline which I chose. The point still stands: If you look at various websites- whether over a 10-minute or 24-hour or 1-week period, they present very different viewpoints, "updates" or not. Comparing ALL of the headlines across ALL of the websites at any one time, I'm fortunate if they overlap by 7%. Arguing over whether "updates" changes that fact ( it doesn't) is pointless - as are you.
5) I've found a much better discussion board- one that isn't filled by ideological trolls, like you three.
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
What a gracious sign-off!
Well, you've fought the good fight for the motherland, no one can deny that. Have fun over at PutinFangirls.com!
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Good for Signy that she got out when she did. How would she have been able to defend THIS?
U.N. RIGHTS CHIEF: 'THOUSANDS' MAY HAVE STARVED IN BESIEGED AREAS OF SYRIA - http://europe.newsweek.com/un-rights-chief-thousands-may-have-starved-
besieged-areas-syria-431311
I repeat: this is happening in the 21st century, to innocent men, women and children.
But which groups are responsible for the sieges? Perhaps, as Signy suggests, the rebels are just as guilty as the Syrian government? Well, a new website, siegewatch.org, has been set up to monitor the sieges in Syria, and this is what they say:
Quote:
At the present time, according to Siege Watch, there are forty-six sieges operating in Syria, forty-three of them (93.5%) imposed by the Assad regime, two (4.5%) imposed by Jaysh al-Fatah, an insurgent coalition that includes Jabhat an-Nusra (al-Qaeda in Syria), and one (2%) by the Islamic State (IS).
Siege Watch also documents the severity of the sieges in three categories. Category one (C1) is the most severe: very little gets in even by smuggling and international aid deliveries are rare if at all; the risk of malnutrition is high. Category two (C2) sieges are porous enough for the black market and/or locals might have some access to locally-grown produce, but prices for basics are extremely high and residents are at “some risk of malnutrition/dehydration”. Category three (C3) sieges require smuggling to get food, but there is a consistent supply, even if home-grown. While risk of malnutrition is low in C3 zones, medical emergencies are likely because of attacks by besieging forces.
All six C1 sieges are imposed by the regime. Thirty category C2 sieges are operating: twenty-nine by the regime and one by IS. The regime is also operating eight C3 sieges and Jaysh al-Fatah is operating two C3 sieges
https://kyleorton1991.wordpress.com/2016/03/02/the-sieges-of-syria/
So the Syrian regime is responsible for the vast majority of sieges, and ALL of the most severe (C1) ones. Their sieges are even worse than the 1 imposed by ISIS (C2) and much worse than the 2 imposed by Al Nusra (C3).
So the Assad regime, and Russia are worse than the terrorists. If there's one key truth to learn about the Syrian conflict, that's it.
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From what I hear the regime is starting to grudgingly allow aid to the desperate besieged areas, although far less than what is needed - http://www.npr.org/2016/03/04/469149282/food-aid-welcomed-in-besieged-
syrian-city-of-madaya
And the Syrian people in rebel areas, free from Assad's barrel bombs, gas attacks and Russia's terror bombing for the first time in years, take to the streets to protest and call for freedom and the downfall of the Assad regime. 104 protests across Syria today:
Remember, according to Sig and her friends at Zerohedge, those protesters in Aleppo (last vid) are 'ISIS collaborators' who deserve to be carpet-bombed by Russia. We should cheer on Russia as it bombs them.
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Putin just shit himself watching the Syrian protesters because he now realizes this ain't going away before the money runs out.
Hey SIG, Putin's gonna clean this up in a couple of months huh. 
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Quote:
And the Syrian people in rebel areas, free from Assad's barrel bombs, gas attacks and Russia's terror bombing for the first time in years, take to the streets to protest and call for freedom and the downfall of the Assad regime. 104 protests across Syria today
As far as I can tell Russia is seeking a POLITICAL solution in Syria. That's why those terrible dastardly Russians negotiated a cease-fire, when they were militarily gaining ground ... and rather rapidly at that. According to various military strategists, once the Four + one had taken control of the northeast, which is rough terrain and easily defended, they could have rolled pretty quickly thru the desert and taken Raqqa and freed Deir el Zor without much trouble.
The only thing I would look at rather closely is whether the various interest groups agree to a unified, secular, democratic Syria. If not, then they're just Sunni extremists looking to establish some sort of Sunni theocracy. If the demonstrators are trying to achieve a democratic, unified, secular Syria, I'm all for them. Right now, I don't know WHAT they're for, other than to "defeat Assad". Are they for a future of Syria that will protect everyone's rights? Or are they just another group of "freedom loving" protesters with embedded theocrats? Do you know what their goals are?
I know that you celebrate anyone who is anti-Russian ... it doesn't seem to matter whether they're corrupt oligarchs, Nazis, ISIL, sectarian Sunni extremists trying to create a Greater Sunnistan .... you don't tend to look too closely, as long as they're waving a flag and shouting.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Are you too stupid SIG to realize they are calling for the destruction of Assad? Really, are you that stupid?
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Are you too stupid SIG to realize they are calling for the destruction of Assad? Really, are you that stupid?
AND THEN WHAT?
Do you have any idea? (no)
Do you care? (no)
Or are you so reflexively anti-Russian that you really don't care what happens to Syria, as long as "your side" (whatever that is) "wins"? (yes)
I can't believe the circle-jerk this thread has devolved into.
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Troll, much?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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