What really matters

POSTED BY: 1kiki
UPDATED: Saturday, December 27, 2025 05:23
VIEWED: 8782
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1KIKI

Thursday, November 24, 2016 11:25 AM (P)

keeping this beautiful planet alive

We've created many ways to give it a painful death - Through nuclear war, through global warming, through collapsing the intricate web of life that keeps us alive.

What are we going to do about it?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, November 24, 2016 11:43 AM (P)

Google "Agenda 2030" and hope that you and your Progeny are part of it.

You think if shit is really going South that the "Shadow Gumment" isn't alread aware of it and like decades in front of your very nice movement?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, November 24, 2016 11:49 AM (P)

no offence iKiki... I'm just sayin....

Trump or Hillary in the end are just the Face of things.

As much as 95% of me wants to believe he is TRUE hope and change, he's not.

At the VERY most, he's an outlandish puppet.

If there were any REAL harm to those truly in charge, he'd already be dead. They learned their lesson when they killed JFK.

It's so much easier to let the Puppet actually do things like build a wall and be tough on immigration. Especially when none of it matters and has all been pre-determined by 2030.

Good luck to you, Shirley.

I hope you win the Lottery.

(Google It)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Thursday, November 24, 2016 12:04 PM (P)

I have't made a study of it. But perhaps only the American Indian changed a way of life from the ground up. They thought about the Seventh Generation.
We can't depend on our leaders, our gods, our presumptions and habits, to save us.

We need to save ourselves.

How are we going to save our planet when our power structures are against us?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Thursday, November 24, 2016 12:36 PM (P)

I'm grateful

that I grew up when and where I did.

All food was organic - pesticides, fungicides, biocides, hormones and preservatives hadn't been invented yet. Nor had plastics.

There were green open spaces to play.

There were only 2 billion people on the planet.

I was born post-war, in the US, the only western country to remain intact.

There still existed wild open places that were real frontiers.

I grew up with space exploration.

The earth was still clean, uncontaminated by chemicals or radionuclides. The arctic and antarctic ozone layers were still intact. The atmosphere was still normally-composed, with average levels of CO2. The oceans were still abundant. The planet beyond home was a waiting adventure.

I'm grateful.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, November 24, 2016 1:03 PM (P)

Right now though, there is 7 Billion People....

It's VERY Good you know these things.

I honestly believe that the 60 million aborted fetuses in America since Row vs Wade have gone to our relatively small population having a much better chance of surviving than the 2 billion in China.

The end goal of Agenda 2030 is a world with only 500M people.

That's roughly 1/14th of the people alive here today.

In a Utopia of tomorrow with only 1/14th of the people existing today, don't you think there is going to be an extreme market for "farmers market" skills?

I actually learned something new on Youtube yesterday.

I actually try to do that at least every other day at least, but i mean a real skill.

I was never a boyscout. I never learned about how to tie knots. I watched a 7 minute video, and the only knot I learned by name and remember was the square knot, but I learned how to make insanely easy knots that would be tight enough to tug a boat with but i could flick my wrist twice and untie them.

He even joked in the video that some people say "if you don't know how to tie a knot, just tie a lot", and in the end he was right. I always just tied a billion knots and had to cut them to free them.

Six simple knots.....

Learn more.

Teach your kids more.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that by 2030 there will be decisions made on who is going to survive. I'll be over 55 by then and likely all of my teeth will have already fallen out by then. I don't have any kids.

I don't care, personally by 2030.

My niece is going to learn how to tie knots, how to grow crops, how to fire a gun, and when she goes to college she's going to use her brains for a real science and not "Gender Studies" or some bullshit art shit.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Friday, November 25, 2016 1:15 AM (P)

Jack

It's always good to know many things.

But you don't want your niece to live in a world where those survival skills will be necessary to keep herself alive day to day, do you?

Survival skills aren't going to solve the problem. If they did, 10 million people wouldn't starve to death every year. And having really bright people getting a good education isn't going to solve the problem either, because those people are busy making brighter, cheaper paint pigments, not figuring out how to intervene in our sprint to mass extinction.

We can't depend on our governments, businesses, religions, scientists, or delivered assumptions and habits, to change our direction. The solution won't come from above.

WE need to figure out how to exist differently than how we exist now.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

KPO

Friday, November 25, 2016 6:58 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
keeping this beautiful planet alive

We've created many ways to give it a painful death - Through nuclear war, through global warming, through collapsing the intricate web of life that keeps us alive.

What are we going to do about it?

Great question to ask after the election kiki. I guess we had more important things to worry about back then, like Hillary's emails. Yeah what the hell, it's only the planet.

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Evidence the Syrian regime sponsors ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 25, 2016 7:04 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
keeping this beautiful planet alive

We've created many ways to give it a painful death - Through nuclear war, through global warming, through collapsing the intricate web of life that keeps us alive.

What are we going to do about it?

Tokyo hit by first November snow in 54 years.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/tokyo-hit-by-first-novembe
r-snow-in-54-years/ar-AAkG5NM?OCID=ansmsnnews11

I am stone faced at ANYONE who honestly thinks that Obama was going to , has , or will in ANY perceivable way ' save the planet ', lower the seas, or any such nonsense, and that because we didn't elect crooked Hillary, all that is out the window.

This is why one side lost, and the other side won. Keep digging that hole, though. It's working !

1KIKI

Friday, November 25, 2016 11:53 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
We've created many ways to give it a painful death - THROUGH NUCLEAR WAR, through global warming, through collapsing the intricate web of life that keeps us alive.
What are we going to do about it?

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Great question to ask after the election kiki. I guess we had more important things to worry about back then, like Hillary's emails. Yeah what the hell, it's only the planet.

*I* WASN'T WORRIED ABOUT HITLERY'S EMAILS - WERE YOU? My concern was that she was going to stumble the US into global thermonuclear warfare with Russia. A concern I've reiterated dozens of times - that you - you being the lying asshole you are - can't help but misrepresent in every post.

With Trump - problem solved!

Now we can move on to the rest of it. Well, I can.

Can you?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

DEVERSE

Saturday, November 26, 2016 12:12 AM (P)

Interesting thread, but I'm at a loss as to how the planet will die or be destroyed.

Humans could burn the planet with nuclear weapons, poison it with toxins and contaminate the soil, air and water with waste, but the only thing that is going to be destroyed by any of this is humanity. And it isn't a matter of "if", but "when" humanity will become extinct.
After humans disappear, the planet will still be here, merrily orbiting the sun and life on the planet will continue, it just won't be human life.

And does the loss of humanity on the planet matter? To who or to what?
I doubt the planet will shed a tear for the loss of humans and whatever life survives won't care either.

As for what to do about it? Unfortunately, there isn't any way for humans to avoid the inevitable. It will happen when it happens and worrying about it solves nothing.

Oh let the sun beat down upon my face;
With stars to fill my dream;
I am a traveler of both time and space;
To be where I have been

KPO

Saturday, November 26, 2016 12:43 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
With Trump - problem solved!

Glad you're so comforted by the thought of Trump's finger on the nuclear button! And you're right, your harebrained fantasies about Hillary starting nuclear war with Russia are more important than preventing the melting of the polar ice caps and extreme drought, flooding and weather events across the planet.

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Evidence the Syrian regime sponsors ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521

1KIKI

Saturday, November 26, 2016 1:04 AM (P)

Hello Brenda

I really appreciate your reply!

I knew that in the past some tribes did hunt by driving large herds over a cliff. But others didn't. So what I've learned to date is that Native American beliefs and cultures were varied. I appreciate your overview. It's a topic abut which I regrettably know very little.

The Seventh Generation ideal comes from the Onondaga:

"In all of your deliberations in the Confederate Council, in your efforts at law making, in all your official acts, self-interest shall be cast into oblivion. Cast not over your shoulder behind you the warnings of the nephews and nieces should they chide you for any error or wrong you may do, but return to the way of the Great Law which is just and right. Look and listen for the welfare of the whole people and have always in view not only the past and present but also the coming generations, even those whose faces are yet beneath the surface of the ground – the unborn of the future Nation."

Oren Lyons, Chief of the Onondaga Nation, writes: "We are looking ahead, as is one of the first mandates given us as chiefs, to make sure and to make every decision that we make relate to the welfare and well-being of the seventh generation to come. ... What about the seventh generation? Where are you taking them? What will they have?"

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Saturday, November 26, 2016 1:22 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by DEVERSE:
Interesting thread, but I'm at a loss as to how the planet will die or be destroyed.

You should know that I mean the planet in a state that keeps us alive.

Quote:
Humans could burn the planet with nuclear weapons, poison it with toxins and contaminate the soil, air and water with waste, but the only thing that is going to be destroyed by any of this is humanity.

Well, we're doing a good job of taking a lot down with us. We're currently in a human-caused mass-extinction event.

Quote:
And it isn't a matter of "if", but "when" humanity will become extinct.

I'm worried about the children in my family. Yes, it's a very, very small part of humanity representing an infinitesimally small point in time. But it's a part I find very motivating.
And I apologize to the people of the next generation and the generations after that.
My generation started with something good. We knew what was ahead in the future, and we did nothing to change. And now, thanks to us, and the inertia that continues to today, we are where we are - on the verge of catastrophic human-caused global warming and in the midst of a human-caused mass extinction.

Quote:
After humans disappear, the planet will still be here, merrily orbiting the sun and life on the planet will continue, it just won't be human life.

Or indeed, many of the unique species that have gone extinct due directly or indirectly to humanity.

Quote:
And does the loss of humanity on the planet matter? To who or to what? I doubt the planet will shed a tear for the loss of humans and whatever life survives won't care either.

Extinction is death. It's the death of hundreds of thousands of individuals, done over and over and over .... without compensating birth. Death is struggle. Death is brutal. Whatever long view you have that you think erases that - it doesn't. Time doesn't reverse. What we do will forever be fact whether we're here to appreciate it or not.
What facts do you want to leave behind?

Quote:
As for what to do about it?

We could stop doing the damage that we're actively doing as a start.

Quote:
Unfortunately, there isn't any way for humans to avoid the inevitable. It will happen when it happens and worrying about it solves nothing.

I'm not talking about worrying. I'm talking about doing.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Saturday, November 26, 2016 1:31 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Tokyo hit by first November snow in 54 years.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/tokyo-hit-by-first-novembe
r-snow-in-54-years/ar-AAkG5NM?OCID=ansmsnnews11

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161121174251.htm
US record high temperatures could outpace record lows 15 to 1

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Saturday, November 26, 2016 1:33 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Glad you're so comforted by the thought of Trump's finger on the nuclear button!

I AM!

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 26, 2016 2:51 AM (P)

Quote:
Glad you're so comforted by the thought of Trump's finger on the nuclear button!- KRAPO

I AM!- KIKI

So am I.

Now that we've hopefully averted a quick immolation by nuclear fire, I'm going to put my thinking cap on as to what we CAN do about our medium-paced march to extinction.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

AURAPTOR

Saturday, November 26, 2016 7:42 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Tokyo hit by first November snow in 54 years.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/tokyo-hit-by-first-novembe
r-snow-in-54-years/ar-AAkG5NM?OCID=ansmsnnews11

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161121174251.htm
US record high temperatures could outpace record lows 15 to 1

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

Hypotheticals vs actual , real life events.

RIVERLOVE

Saturday, November 26, 2016 7:57 PM (P)

Clean air
Clean water
Good wine
Good food
Good sci-fi
Prosperity for all who work for it
Peace through strength
Healthy body
Good roads
Preserving National Parks
Quality education
Honest journalism

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 26, 2016 9:10 PM (P)

Quote:
Hypotheticals vs actual , real life events. -RAPPY

Dood, this is where you act just like a know-nothing liberaloid. They have their religion, I guess, and you have yours.

Real-life events: "The 10 warmest years in the 134-year record all have occurred since 2000, with the exception of 1998." But when did little things like FACTS ever slow you down?? Oh ... never. Sheesh.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 26, 2016 9:45 PM (P)

So this overlaps with "Fix it where you are". Of course, we should all be personally responsible:

Reducing our purchases of unnecessary goods, repairing and re-purposing what we have, and recycling where possible;

Being mindful of our utilities consumption, choosing lower-emitting vehicles, lightbulbs, toilets and showerheads, appliances, air conditioners and home heaters, etc at purchase, reducing their use when possible and keeping them tuned up and in good repair (air filters changed, tires properly inflated etc) for better efficiency.

For property owners, mindful landscaping: using trees to provide shade in the summer and shrubs to break cold wind in the winter, planting natives and avoiding invasives etc.

However, there is a lot of systemic waste that can't be avoided on the personal level, such as the military waste of feckless wars (think of the fuel and materiel used!) and land-use planning mistakes which require people to drive 15+ miles to work each way.

So I would say that this will require activism, something that a lot of people don't have time for, but DIRECT pressure at the city, county, state, and Federal levels to do the right thing: not just the power of the vote (which is very important) but also the power of words: Presentations to the City Council and Planning Commission, letters to the editor, phone calls to County Commissioners and State representatives etc. The formation of school groups, for example, the high school group that I was in formed the very first permanent recycling center in our state.

One thing I've been very disappointed with has been the role of the NGOs. The concept that you can donate your way to a better world has been very ineffective. You have to be very careful about where your money is going. But that's a different and much larger story.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

1KIKI

Saturday, November 26, 2016 10:54 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Hypotheticals vs actual , real life events.

Rappy, you're so cute when you try to be a grown up.
http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/graphics/record-highs-vs-record-
lows
Record Highs vs. Record Lows
Another important set of records are the daily records set at stations across the country.

Without climate change, the ratio of daily record highs to daily record lows should be in balance when looking over years and decades — although there will still be swings to cold and hot years. However, over the last several decades in the U.S. record highs are significantly outpacing record lows, which indicates a long-term and sustained warming trend.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

THX

Sunday, November 27, 2016 4:29 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by DEVERSE:
Interesting thread, but I'm at a loss as to how the planet will die or be destroyed.

Humans could burn the planet with nuclear weapons, poison it with toxins and contaminate the soil, air and water with waste, but the only thing that is going to be destroyed by any of this is humanity. ....

Even I wouldn't go that far. Many species would die.

WISHIMAY

Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:13 AM (P)

The sun follows a pendulum-like pattern of activity over roughly an 11-year period, and while scientists say this behaviour is not unusual, some have warned the current trend could send Earth into a ‘mini ice age.’

A study last year claimed to have cracked predicting solar cycles - and says that between 2020 and 2030 solar cycles will cancel each other out.

This, they say, will lead to another 'Maunder minimum' - which has previously been known as a mini ice age when it hit between 1646 and 1715

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3980462/The-dead-sun-St
unning-Nasa-image-reveals-barren-solar-surface-lowest-level-activity-2011.html#ixzz4RMN3jKe1

Not that any scientist has ever been able to predict anything very well....

1KIKI

Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:43 AM (P)

Lots of answers. No one has said 'increase nuclear weapons stockpiles'. Or, 'strip-mine the oceans till every last fish is gone'. Or 'dump enough plastic trash into the ocean so we stay on target to meet our 'more plastic than fish in the ocean by 2050'' prediction.

Seeing as how things aren't going in the direction most would prefer, what do you think we - as individuals and cooperating groups, independent of officialdom and power - can start doing differently?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Tuesday, November 29, 2016 10:10 AM (P)

OK.

Here's an idea. Assuming none of you would need to get this going or organize it -

Jack, I'm sure you've acquired many skills and might even like to know more. (Your post indicates you would.) What would you be willing to trade to learn something new and useful? Teach someone your skills? Do yard-work? Would you be willing to split the produce from your yard if someone came and showed you how to grow things?

Wish. Your schedule sure seems overloaded. Would you be willing to trade a fully prepared meal your entire family can eat for 5 hours of child-minding? Would you trade a couple of buckets of kitchen scraps for a half-dozen eggs?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:11 PM (P)

This seems pretty primitive, I know. And it won't stop the US military from wasting resources and destroying countries.

But by removing essential parts of your life from the official economy, you're putting choice back into your hands, and those of the people you cooperate with. The more you can get done locally, on your own - through cooperation and barter, through do-it-yourself and grow-your-own - the less you depend on the banks, on agribusiness, on transnational corporations. The fewer people those entities have under their control, the smaller the fraction of you life that they run, the weaker they get and the stronger you become.

It's a little bit like the question that went around during the Vietnam War - what if they called a war and nobody came? What if they called an economy and nobody joined in?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:47 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Jack, I'm sure you've acquired many skills and might even like to know more. (Your post indicates you would.) What would you be willing to trade to learn something new and useful? Teach someone your skills? Do yard-work? Would you be willing to split the produce from your yard if someone came and showed you how to grow things?

Absolutely 1kiki,

I actually wish I had a few "survivalist" friends out there. My younger brother was my only real one, but he's been "domisticated". He's the stay at home dad to my sis in law and angel of a niece and his wife makes an easy 6 figures. Once those debts are paid off, assuming the economy doesn't collapse by then, they'll be living on easy street. :)

I don't JUST sit around and do nothing now that I'm unemployed. I live off of almost nothing and I have zero debts, and I do spend more than I make and leach off of what's left of my liquid nest egg, but I do odd jobs here and there. It's amazing what 25 or 50 dollars here or there buys you when you have no bills besides utilities and minimum property taxes.

I'm actually hoping we get the SUPER SNOWY winter that they're predicting now. I've got a super bad-ass near Industrial sized snowplow that makes short work of even the largest driveways. All it needs is a little gas and somebody behind it to push the buttons and walk .0125MPH behind it.

If it gets really bad, I think I might just walk up and down the streets near me with the thing ROARing like the IceCream Truck guy with his songs in the summer and watch people run outside and throw money at me.

Be careful who's advice you take though. It's been a LONG time since anybody has scammed me, but I have to give mad props to a college kid on youtube who is probably paying for his college debt with DIY Youtube videos he has made...

"TRIPLE YOUR INTERNET SPEED FOR FREE!!!!!"

I know... I feel REALLY dumb now. :)

But this guy looked like I did when I was 22, was well dressed, well spoken, he had a lot of convincing graphics, and the remedial knowledge of electronics and transformers I had actually made me buy into it even more than if I knew nothing.

I watched it on a limited TV version of Youtube that doesn't allow you to watch descriptions or comments, only the videos.

So I tried it, not once, but TWICE before I went to my laptop and brought the video up. The second I brought the video up? I saw in his own description that he says it's a JOKE!

Good show kid. That video has over 2.5 Million Views, and you just got 2 more out of me in a single night, and made me waste about 1/10th of a roll of electrical tape that cost me 75 cents.

TRUE Prankster among a site full of fake pranksters. And he isn't actually hurting anyone with his pranks. I feel like a dumbass for sure, but I've told everyone I know to watch his stuff after I fell for it.

I actually still have my CAT5 Cable sitting there with the new battery mod. Why remove it? If anybody sees it when they come to my house and ask what that's all about, it's a great story. :)

So 1kiki. You got something good to share with me?

If you're interested, I can show you how to build some BADASS video game systems for your nieces and nephews that are 100's of times better than the NES classic that is sold out and going for thousands on ebay.

Unlike the video I showed you, I am 100% legit and you can do it for about 75-100 bucks, shipped. Not only can this play Nintendo games, but it can play a lot of other systems, arcade games, and even those Laser Disc games like Dragon's Warrior.

If I didn't have a house to lose, I could make a ton of money selling this stuff at a swap market. But I'm a white dude with a house. Immediately I get put in prison or at least sued for it. :)

Meanwhile, some assholes swooped up 20 or 30 NES Mini Systems and are selling t

1KIKI

Tuesday, November 29, 2016 3:10 PM (P)

Well, they don't even have to be 'survival' skills. Can you bake bread? Or darn a sock? Sew a button on properly? Unstick a zipper? Or, are you willing to trade work for work? Anything that you might have to pay to buy, or have done, is fair game.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

AURAPTOR

Thursday, December 1, 2016 5:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Hypotheticals vs actual , real life events. -RAPPY
Dood, this is where you act just like a know-nothing liberaloid. They have their religion, I guess, and you have yours.

Real-life events: "The 10 warmest years in the 134-year record all have occurred since 2000, with the exception of 1998." But when did little things like FACTS ever slow you down?? Oh ... never. Sheesh.

-----------

Wow... 134 years, on a planet that's 4.2+ billion years old. And this coming from a community of " experts " who have been caught either promoting false data or flat out making shit up, all for the stated POLITICAL agenda of more and more centralized power and less freedom.

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, December 1, 2016 3:57 PM (P)

It's not so much about saving the planet, although we do need to change our mindset about our carelessness. it's really about saving our asses; you know...humans. This planet has withstood all manner of bombardment from the universe for millions of years, and we humans are but a pimple on the ass of Mother Earth.

She's gonna keep right on spinning once we are long gone, and smile while doing her thing....hurtling through space. So we need to stop putzing around with the idiots who think that this planet will sustain us at the rate we're trashing the place. It's like anything else. We need to take care of "our house" or get dead pretty darn fast. It's that simple. Otherwise this Big Blue Marble will shrug her shoulders and keep right on spinning without us.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
keeping this beautiful planet alive

We've created many ways to give it a painful death - Through nuclear war, through global warming, through collapsing the intricate web of life that keeps us alive.

What are we going to do about it?

AURAPTOR

Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:56 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
It's not so much about saving the planet, although we do need to change our mindset about our carelessness. it's really about saving our asses; you know...humans. This planet has withstood all manner of bombardment from the universe for millions of years, and we humans are but a pimple on the ass of Mother Earth.

She's gonna keep right on spinning once we are long gone, and smile while doing her thing....hurtling through space. So we need to stop putzing around with the idiots who think that this planet will sustain us at the rate we're trashing the place. It's like anything else. We need to take care of "our house" or get dead pretty darn fast. It's that simple. Otherwise this Big Blue Marble will shrug her shoulders and keep right on spinning without us.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
keeping this beautiful planet alive

We've created many ways to give it a painful death - Through nuclear war, through global warming, through collapsing the intricate web of life that keeps us alive.

What are we going to do about it?

Hope everyone is sitting down. Ready ?

I agree. We DO need to do a better job in taking care of our home.

Where we differ, I suspect, is the telling of fables and tall tales as a reason for why we need to do it.

Much like how we tell ourselves we'd best behave, treat each other kindly, or God, Allah, Ra , etc... will come down and smite thee, and cast you into the pit of eternal peril, or some such.

Be honest w/ folks. Don't lie. And don't meddle, as River would say...

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, December 2, 2016 12:03 PM (P)

I was sitting down when I read this and I still almost fell out my chair...lol

But I respect your position and your take on this topic Rap. I'm not sure about your statement regarding "fables and tall tales," but I remember watching a documentary on HBO about the world's food supply and Monsanto.
There is a group of scientists actually "vaulting" food supplies in underground caverns because, as the documentary reported, Monsanto is producing genetically altered food crops throughout the world.

I'm going to try and find it on YouTube and post it here. It was very scary and informative. These are things that we must be aware of and hold companies, like the huge conglomerate, accountable.

I also remember years ago, the warning we got about the Ozone layer and how it would affect us humans - increases in skin cancer to name one, and possible affect on weather patterns, to name a second. I'm not a scientist, but I have eyes and can see how things have changed over the years in my little world where I live. The droughts, flash tornadoes and floods with increasing frequency popping up all over the map - gives me pause.

Global warming has become a four letter word for a lot of folks. Okay, let's get rid of that phrase. There, that's better....now let's wait a minute to see what happens next.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
It's not so much about saving the planet, although we do need to change our mindset about our carelessness. it's really about saving our asses; you know...humans. This planet has withstood all manner of bombardment from the universe for millions of years, and we humans are but a pimple on the ass of Mother Earth.

She's gonna keep right on spinning once we are long gone, and smile while doing her thing....hurtling through space. So we need to stop putzing around with the idiots who think that this planet will sustain us at the rate we're trashing the place. It's like anything else. We need to take care of "our house" or get dead pretty darn fast. It's that simple. Otherwise this Big Blue Marble will shrug her shoulders and keep right on spinning without us.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
keeping this beautiful planet alive

We've created many ways to give it a painful death - Through nuclear war, through global warming, through collapsing the intricate web of life that keeps us alive.

What are we going to do about it?

Hope everyone is sitting down. Ready ?

I agree. We DO need to do a better job in taking care of our home.

Where we differ, I suspect, is the telling of fables and tall tales as a reason for why we need to do it.

Much like how we tell ourselves we'd best behave, treat each other kindly, or God, Allah, Ra , etc... will come down and smite thee, and cast you into the pit of eternal peril, or some such.

Be honest w/ folks. Don't lie. And don't meddle, as River would say...

SECOND

Friday, December 2, 2016 3:31 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

This seems pretty primitive, I know. And it won't stop the US military from wasting resources and destroying countries. . . .

It's a little bit like the question that went around during the Vietnam War - what if they called a war and nobody came? What if they called an economy and nobody joined in?

We already know the answer to your first hypothetical question: The direct exposure of most Americans to war is limited to news sources and social media, when they choose to pay attention at all. With little personal stake, they make no demands of their elected officials. The inattention of voters means that members of Congress have few incentives to prioritize it. Without Congressional action, war power devolves to the president. This has resulted in ongoing war with no end in sight. There is a long article about how U.S. went from staying out of other people's wars to jumping into everyone's wars. And the path to endless war was the one implied by the question "what if they called a war and nobody came?" What happens is the President simply hires mercenaries, i.e. all volunteer army, and USA goes to war without you.
www.dissentmagazine.org/article/war-without-politics-draft-drones-aumf

If anyone follows the rest of 1kiki's advice, you weaken only yourself. The economy will go on without you and a hundred million like you. The top 1% will be thankful that freeway traffic jams don't exist because you stopped driving to work. If you don't play a part in the economy, then either mercenaries, illegals, or robots will replace you to provide for the needs of the top 1%:

Quote:
But by removing essential parts of your life from the official economy, you're putting choice back into your hands, and those of the people you cooperate with. The more you can get done locally, on your own - through cooperation and barter, through do-it-yourself and grow-your-own - the less you depend on the banks, on agribusiness, on transnational corporations. The fewer people those entities have under their control, the smaller the fraction of you life that they run, the weaker they get and the stronger you become.

SIGNYM

Saturday, December 3, 2016 6:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Wow... 134 years, on a planet that's 4.2+ billion years old. And this coming from a community of " experts " who have been caught either promoting false data or flat out making shit up, all for the stated POLITICAL agenda of more and more centralized power and less freedom.

I've been through this with you, in detail, many times over. Looked at the East Anglia kerfuffle (it was all about one data point. ONE data point!) and all of the rest of the crap that you bring to the board about this topic. And WMD. Let's not forget your WMD obsession.

You're useless on two topics.

Not a fan of "one world order", RAPPY. I think you should have figured that out by now. But realistically, we're all living in one very crowded lifeboat by now.

I agree with SGG: It's not about saving the earth, it's about saving us.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

AURAPTOR

Sunday, December 4, 2016 7:21 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Wow... 134 years, on a planet that's 4.2+ billion years old. And this coming from a community of " experts " who have been caught either promoting false data or flat out making shit up, all for the stated POLITICAL agenda of more and more centralized power and less freedom.
I've been through this with you, in detail, many times over. Looked at the East Anglia kerfuffle (it was all about one data point. ONE data point!) and all of the rest of the crap that you bring to the board about this topic. And WMD. Let's not forget your WMD obsession.

You're useless on two topics.

Not a fan of "one world order", RAPPY. I think you should have figured that out by now. But realistically, we're all living in one very crowded lifeboat by now.

I agree with SGG: It's not about saving the earth, it's about saving us.

Yeah, real crowded.

Oh, and I was right about WMD, so...

SIGNYM

Sunday, December 4, 2016 9:11 AM (P)

well, fortunately neither the world nor the people who are trying to save it will actually care about your delusions.

But on a different note, I hope the southeast gets the rain it so desperately needs. We southwesterners are very familiar ... TOO familiar! ... with drought and wildfires. May the rains come soon.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

RIVERLOVE

Sunday, December 4, 2016 10:26 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Oh, and I was right about WMD, so...

Matt Damon searched for WMDs in 'Green Zone' and didn't find any. Not a single one. I should believe you over Matt Damon? Not..bloody..likely!

1KIKI

Monday, December 5, 2016 1:17 AM (P)

Quote:
With Trump these obvious facts mean very little. G-R-E-E-D is the driving force.

We've done all this without Trump. How does that make 'us' the ungreedy good guys?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Monday, December 5, 2016 1:31 AM (P)

Quote:
We already know the answer to your first hypothetical question: The direct exposure of most Americans to war is limited to news sources and social media ...

Obama to the rescue! Since women have been cleared for combat duty, he thinks they should be equally subject to the draft! Once they reinstate it ...

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Monday, December 5, 2016 1:42 AM (P)

In any case, I see a consensus on 'fewer people' and 'less pollution' (better stewardship).

How do we get there?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Tuesday, December 6, 2016 1:14 PM (P)

We do seem to agree that finding better ways to care for the earth is a matter of life and death. But so far, the bulk of humanity has failed to even slow down the mismanagement we've perpetrated. In the case of the US, business has failed to address the problem. Government has failed to address the problem. And professional interest groups that take our donations have failed to address the problem.

What can we do so that they are all more accountable?

Or do we give up on them and try to organize without them, from the ground up?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:06 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Oh, and I was right about WMD, so...

Matt Damon searched for WMDs in 'Green Zone' and didn't find any. Not a single one. I should believe you over Matt Damon? Not..bloody..likely!

Touche' !!!

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:38 PM (P)

Actually, it's customary to blame the president for everything under the sun, didn't you read the memo? Now, and for the next four years (Heaven help us), Donald has to contend with that little bitty thing - Total Blame for the World's Problems.

What!? You think that he doesn't get the shit end of the stick for his total lack of vision? And now the fun begins. Here are the keys to the kingdom and everything that goes with it. Donald meet medicine!

Take a whiff because shit's getting heavy!

Unemployment rise, failed economy, increased taxes, dip in the stock market, disappearing retirement accounts, double digit inflation, increased national debt.............Here we come!!!

Will the real Jade Helm please stand up!

Pretty soon we all will be wearing the latest style in Serial numbers fashion wear.

Spring Time for Hitler and Germany...2,3,4

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
With Trump these obvious facts mean very little. G-R-E-E-D is the driving force.
We've done all this without Trump. How does that make 'us' the ungreedy good guys?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Thursday, December 8, 2016 10:01 AM (P)

Quote:
Actually, it's customary to blame the president for everything under the sun

Dood, Trump isn't president yet. Or didn't YOU get the memo?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, December 8, 2016 4:15 PM (P)

Oh how clever.....look everyone, kiki used my silly sense of humor agin' me.
Well now, isn't that special!

Of course the Drumpster isn't Prez yet silly. We are making a reservation for ridicule and bombast so as not to miss out on the festivities. Of course,
front row seats are "reserved" for Dems and progressives; after all you conservatives and Tea Party...er, alt-right wingers have hogged the best seats in the house long enough.

That's it, run along and go play in the 7-lane highway will ya! Let the professional hecklers have a crack at it. Hell, who knows maybe you guys could have the seats back within 2 years, you know, after the impeachment.
That is, of course, if we have any country left (you see!, it's never too early to crank out a few insults. Just like Donald likes it, nasty and dirty.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Actually, it's customary to blame the president for everything under the sun
Dood, Trump isn't president yet. Or didn't YOU get the memo?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Thursday, December 8, 2016 10:12 PM (P)

DOOD, if it's customary to blame the president for everything - your joke needs to be aimed at Obama. Otherwise, it's just pathetic and stupid.

UNLESS you were making YOURSELF the butt of your joke!

In that case, HA! HA! HA! You're such a stupid clown!

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Thursday, December 8, 2016 10:15 PM (P)

Thanks to 150 years of concerted efforts by humanity, the planet as we know it is gasping its last breath.

Are we going to fold our hands and go down with it? Or are we going to do something?

By the deafening silence, I'm hearing a vote for 'flush ourselves down the toilet'.

Is that the consensus?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

AURAPTOR

Friday, December 9, 2016 4:56 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Thanks to 150 years of concerted efforts by humanity, the planet as we know it is gasping its last breath.

Hysterical much ?

Quote:

Are we going to fold our hands and go down with it? Or are we going to do something?

By the deafening silence, I'm hearing a vote for 'flush ourselves down the toilet'.

Is that the consensus?

Pass the mashed 'taters when you're done, thanks.

RIVERLOVE

Friday, December 9, 2016 7:09 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Pass the mashed 'taters when you're done, thanks.

Would you like to see one of them flicker shows when you're finished with your taters John?

1KIKI

Friday, December 9, 2016 7:34 AM (P)

http://www.rdmag.com/news/2016/12/sea-ice-hits-record-lows-november

November 2016 is now the seventh month this year to have hit a record low extent in the 38-year satellite monitoring period.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:44 AM (P)

http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2016/12/species-already-vanish
ing-due-climate-change-says-study

Species Already Vanishing Due to Climate Change, Says Study

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:48 AM (P)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-arctic-is-seriously-wei
rd-right-now/
The Arctic Is Seriously Weird Right Now
Instead of expanding during this cold, dark time of year, sea ice is shrinking

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:29 AM (P)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/science/arctic-global-warming.html

Temperatures Spike in the Arctic, Startling Scientists

By HENRY FOUNTAIN and JOHN SCHWARTZ

A spate of extreme warmth is linked to climate change, and may lead to shrinking ice coverage and even more warming in the region, scientists said.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:02 PM (P)

Spoken like a fucking IDIOT....actually that would give idiots a bad name.
What I heard was BLAH, BLAH, Blah.........wah, wah-wah , wah, wah to wah, wah, wah.

Fucking evil troll commie bitch!

SGGtothe10thPowerbeyondyourfeeblemindisall

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
DOOD, if it's customary to blame the president for everything - your joke needs to be aimed at Obama. Otherwise, it's just pathetic and stupid.

UNLESS you were making YOURSELF the butt of your joke!

In that case, HA! HA! HA! You're such a stupid clown!

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:54 PM (P)

Can you believe it? After all that rage and trolling and alcohol - Trump still isn't president yet! My god, what are you going to do after he's sworn in!?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:56 PM (P)

While Trump has yet to be sworn in and become president, can we just stipulate that there are many things that could be negatives and move on from there? Because, honestly, I can't imagine what good endlessly wallowing in anti-Trump obsession is going to do. The question is, what to do next.

I've been thinking about what good the traditional mediators - like the Sierra Club - might do, if any, at the political level. The problem as I see it is that they got comfortable playing the political game. We give them money, they meet and schmooze with politicians, nothing significant changes, and life goes on. If that process wasn't broken before, now it truly will be.

From my perspective, the best results have come from the Sierra Club, Clean Air Coalition, and others filing lawsuits against the federal EPA or individual states to get specific action.

The one tactic that the NRA has used very successfully is the targeted phone-call campaign. That could be an effort worthy of support as well.

And, in general, it might be worth while to support Sanders, Warren, and Duckworth as the major contenders (to date) against the Trump agenda.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, December 23, 2016 1:28 PM (P)

FUCK YOU and The Broomstick you rode in on.

Trump will drive this country into the fucking ground, way before the planet takes it's Swan Dive into the void. Hell, it's gonna be a bumpy ride!

Folks, I mean normal regular everyday people who aren't SICK FUCKS, will survive long after the Drumpfs and Kikis of the world are long gone.

Soylent Green is people!

Damn you all to Hell!

SGG

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, December 23, 2016 1:35 PM (P)

Actually, I'm gonna sit back and watch you guys get fucked in da ass by Donald's tiny little pecker, as he reneges on every single promise which got him into the White House (God help us!).

He doesn't give 2 shits about anyone who isn't a billionaire. Sad thing is you guys are so blind to his BULLSHIT rhetoric and game-show host smile, that you have no glue you've been had, hoodwinked, bamboozled, flim-flammed!
He sold you a Pet Rock and told you it was gold, and you guys swallowed the hook, line and sinker.

Well, now you've got him. Good luck with that....Haaaaaa, ha, ha!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
While Trump has yet to be sworn in and become president, can we just stipulate that there are many things that could be negatives and move on from there? Because, honestly, I can't imagine what good endlessly wallowing in anti-Trump obsession is going to do. The question is, what to do next.

I've been thinking about what good the traditional mediators - like the Sierra Club - might do, if any, at the political level. The problem as I see it is that they got comfortable playing the political game. We give them money, they meet and schmooze with politicians, nothing significant changes, and life goes on. If that process wasn't broken before, now it truly will be.

From my perspective, the best results have come from the Sierra Club, Clean Air Coalition, and others filing lawsuits against the federal EPA or individual states to get specific action.

The one tactic that the NRA has used very successfully is the targeted phone-call campaign. That could be an effort worthy of support as well.

And, in general, it might be worth while to support Sanders, Warren, and Duckworth as the major contenders (to date) against the Trump agenda.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Saturday, December 24, 2016 9:23 AM (P)

Quote:
Actually, I'm gonna sit back and watch you guys get fucked in da ass by Donald's tiny little pecker, as he reneges on every single promise which got him into the White House (God help us!).

He doesn't give 2 shits about anyone who isn't a billionaire. Sad thing is you guys are so blind to his BULLSHIT rhetoric and game-show host smile, that you have no glue you've been had, hoodwinked, bamboozled, flim-flammed!
He sold you a Pet Rock and told you it was gold, and you guys swallowed the hook, line and sinker.

Well, now you've got him. Good luck with that....Haaaaaa, ha, ha!

Now that's an interesting question. Can the planet survive 4 years of Trump, or could it have survived 4 years of shitlery? Well, since a nuclear war is pretty much 'game over' at the start, and that's the direction that shitlery was headed in - I'm guessing the planet, and we, will live to fight another day.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

SIGNYM

Sunday, December 25, 2016 3:26 AM (P)

Quote:
We do seem to agree that finding better ways to care for the earth is a matter of life and death. But so far, the bulk of humanity has failed to even slow down the mismanagement we've perpetrated. In the case of the US, business has failed to address the problem. Government has failed to address the problem. And professional interest groups that take our donations have failed to address the problem.

What can we do so that they are all more accountable?

Or do we give up on them and try to organize without them, from the ground up? - 1KIKI

Good question, and one that I've been trying to answer to myself for quite a while.

Generally-speaking, it's difficult to effect large-scale effects from small-scale (individual) actions. We might each individually buy fuel-efficient cars, but not have any say over land-used planning and mass transit availability. "Hitler would not have been prevented by dumpster-diving".

http://www.alternet.org/story/141260/taking_shorter_showers_doesn%27t_
cut_it%3A_why_personal_change_does_not_equal_political_change

OTOH, it's almost impossible to steer our Federal government from the ground up. Our government, like most governments, is an oligarchy; it represents the richest and powerful, not the "common person", certainly not the unborn generations, and most definitely not "the (non-human) commons" .... the vast natural infrastructure that we all depend on and which can't be "monetized".

So although I think we all need to take personal responsibility - yanno, reduce, reuse, recycle - I think we also take collective action at lower decision-making levels.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND

SIGNYM

Sunday, December 25, 2016 4:03 AM (P)

Here is the article about Hitler and dumpster-diving. I thought it was profound.

Also, it's very difficult to re-create a "community" of people trading work, and developing/ participating in the "gray economy" because people move around so much.

But of course, given the scope of the problem "How can we save ourselves?" I guess the question whether we should ...

Take personal action OR
Develop a "gray economy" community OR
Pressure our cities, counties and states and regional entities (look at those closely: most people don't even know that they exist or what they do) OR
Vote at the Federal level, Or
Donate money to NGOs which have proven effective, OR
Volunteer time to organizations.

... is kind of a moot point. I think the answer is All of the above.

Quote:
Would any sane person think dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Then why now, with all the world at stake, do so many people retreat into these entirely personal “solutions”?

Part of the problem is that we’ve been victims of a campaign of systematic misdirection. Consumer culture and the capitalist mindset have taught us to substitute acts of personal consumption (or enlightenment) for organized political resistance. An Inconvenient Truth helped raise consciousness about global warming. But did you notice that all of the solutions presented had to do with personal consumption—changing light bulbs, inflating tires, driving half as much—and had nothing to do with shifting power away from corporations, or stopping the growth economy that is destroying the planet? Even if every person in the United States did everything the movie suggested, U.S. carbon emissions would fall by only 22 percent. Scientific consensus is that emissions must be reduced by at least 75 percent worldwide.

Or let’s talk water. We so often hear that the world is running out of water. People are dying from lack of water. Rivers are dewatered from lack of water. Because of this we need to take shorter showers. See the disconnect? Because I take showers, I’m responsible for drawing down aquifers? Well, no. More than 90 percent of the water used by humans is used by agriculture and industry. The remaining 10 percent is split between municipalities and actual living breathing individual humans. Collectively, municipal golf courses use as much water as municipal human beings. People (both human people and fish people) aren’t dying because the world is running out of water. They’re dying because the water is being stolen.

Or let’s talk energy. Kirkpatrick Sale summarized it well: “For the past 15 years the story has been the same every year: individual consumption—residential, by private car, and so on—is never more than about a quarter of all consumption; the vast majority is commercial, industrial, corporate, by agribusiness and government [he forgot military]. So, even if we all took up cycling and wood stoves it would have a negligible impact on energy use, global warming and atmospheric pollution.”

Or let’s talk waste. In 2005, per-capita municipal waste production (basically everything that’s put out at the curb) in the U.S. was about 1,660 pounds. Let’s say you’re a die-hard simple-living activist, and you reduce this to zero. You recycle everything. You bring cloth bags shopping. You fix your toaster. Your toes poke out of old tennis shoes. You’re not done yet, though. Since municipal waste includes not just residential waste, but also waste from government offices and businesses, you march to those offices, waste reduction pamphlets in hand, and convince them to cut down on their waste enough to eliminate your share of it. Uh, I’ve got some bad news. Municipal waste accounts for only 3 percent

SIGNYM

Sunday, December 25, 2016 8:49 PM (P)

So I guess, on reflection, the two most effective things to do are personal action and collective action on smaller regulatory/ government entities.

Personal action because... well .. anyone can do it, provided that they have the time and wherewithal. Anyone can turn out a light, anyone can turn off the tap, anyone can set the thermostat lower, anyone can refrain from buying useless stuff, anyone can recycle (where there are recycling programs). Buying a more fuel-efficient car is out of reach for many, along with buying LED lights and so forth. But reducing and reusing is within almost everyone's reach.

Collective action on smaller (non-Federal, non-international) entities.

Heal the Bay and Californians Against Waste (CAW) teamed up to get the plastic bag ban passed in CA.

NRDC sued South Coast Air Quality Management District for backsliding on air quality, and won.

Nature Conservancy buys up or receives donated land (or easements) from individual landowners.

NGOs are about as large as a large state or regional agency, so they have a chance of winning. Of course, we need to keep chipping away at Congress and the President, too (especially important in the primaries as DT used to point out) but I wouldn't make that the "make or break" strategy of a plan.

Fortunately, with the TPP and TTIP dead (for now) the decision-making reverts to Federal, state and local levels: places where there is a formal feedback system from the citizens to the decision-makers, via the vote.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND

1KIKI

Monday, December 26, 2016 2:13 AM (P)

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. They're informed and well-reasoned. You've helped me along in my thinking.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

1KIKI

Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:45 AM (P)

To get back to the 'how' of creating a survivable way of living on this planet - looking back to the days of Reagan, even at that time republicans focused on grass-roots, local, county and eventually state political action. That seems to be a winning strategy. But what it takes are mobilized citizens, not passive ones.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

JAYNEZTOWN

Saturday, December 27, 2025 5:23 AM (P)

Microplastics Are Changing Our Oceans—And You Can’t See It Happening

https://indiandefencereview.com/microplastics-are-changing-our-oceans/

Garden of Eden 'FOUND' as scientist claims Biblical paradise is linked to the Pyramids of Giza

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14580021/Garden-Eden-s
cientist-claims-Biblical-Pyramids-Giza.html?sfnsn=scwspmo