REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 04:15
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Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:02 AM

KPO


This thread is to keep a running account of Putin's and the Syrian regime's atrocities in Syria.

First, from Amnesty International, indiscriminate Russian airstrikes have killed hundreds of civilians:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35165819
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/12/syria-russias-shameful-
failure-to-acknowledge-civilian-killings
/

"Russian air strikes in Syria have killed hundreds of civilians and caused massive destruction in residential areas, striking homes, a mosque and a busy market, as well as medical facilities, in a pattern of attacks that show evidence of violations of international humanitarian law"

“Some Russian air strikes appear to have directly attacked civilians or civilian objects by striking residential areas with no evident military target and even medical facilities, resulting in deaths and injuries to civilians. Such attacks may amount to war crimes”




*****************************************************************************

UPDATE:

HIGHLIGHTS OF THE THREAD - RUSSIAN/REGIME ATROCITIES TO DATE:

- The Syrian regime's starving of 40,000 people in the town of Madaya: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/7/madaya-syria-starving.h
tml

http://news.yahoo.com/16-more-starve-death-syrias-besieged-madaya-msf-
083223561.html

- the UN, on Russian/regime airstrikes on civilians, civilian infrastructure, fuel and food lines and refugee camps (!!) - http://reliefweb.int/report/syrian-arab-republic/turkey-syria-flash-up
date-developments-northwestern-governorates-22


- UN report: Syrian regime 'exterminating detainees' (at least 11,000) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35521801

- Doctors Without Borders report on a 'horrific' barrel bomb of one of their hospitals: http://www.msf.org.uk/article/syria-barrel-bombing-of-msf-supported-ho
spital-kills-seven


- "Homs - capital of the Syrian revolution" reduced to a bombed out husk:


- International Red Cross: close to 100,000 displaced in less than 2 weeks of joint Russian/regime bombardment -
http://www.rescue.org/press-releases/increase-airstrikes-and-ongoing-s
ieges-%E2%80%9Cmaking-mockery%E2%80%9D-international-efforts-help-sy


In the ER of a hospital in rebel-held Aleppo, a story of 3 brothers (warning heartbreaking):



BBC report on the airstrikes on Aleppo:



Statement by the International Red Cross 31/7/16, after one of their hospitals taken out, 6 killed - https://www.rescue.org/press-release/irc-supported-hospital-syria-hit-
airstrike-killing-six

CCTV footage of an airstrike on a hospital in rebel-held Aleppo -



Amnesty International blames Russia and Assad for bombing of Idlib maternity hospital - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-civil-war-as
sad-russia-air-strikes-deaths-bombing-hospitals-idlib-maternity-clinic-babies-a7163691.html


An article on the scale of Syria's war crimes - http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/does-anyone-in-syria-fear-inte
rnational-law


To be continued

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Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:15 AM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Russia can not afford a protracted campaign in Syria. Especially since they are expending resources in the Ukraine as well. Their strategy is to inflict as much pain as quickly as they can, to influence their position in negotiations.


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Wednesday, December 23, 2015 12:58 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Use of cluster bombs by Russia:

http://www.rferl.org/content/syria-russia-hrw-using-cluster-munitions/
27440005.html

"Human Rights Watch (HRW) has accused both Moscow and Damascus of "extensive use" of banned cluster munitions in Syria.

HRW said it had documented the use of such weapons on at least 20 occasions since Syria and Russia began their joint offensive on September 30.

The New York-based rights group collected detailed information about attacks in nine locations that have killed at least 35 civilians, including five women and 17 children, and injured dozens. Two attacks hit camps for the displaced.

In a statement issued on December 20, HRW said all the recent cluster-munition attacks it had documented fell on opposition-controlled territory.

"Syria's promises on indiscriminate weapons ring hollow when cluster munitions keep hitting civilians in many parts of the country," said Ole Solvang, HRW's deputy emergencies director.

Cluster munitions are explosive weapons that can be delivered from the ground by artillery and rockets, or dropped from aircraft. A total of 118 countries have banned them."

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Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:11 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


I bet we would have no problem finding SIG's post about the atrocities committed by Israel for it's use of cluster bombs. So now watch once again as she demonstrates her hypocrisy and denies any wrong doing by Russia.


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Saturday, December 26, 2015 10:24 PM

1KIKI


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions

As of the end of 2015, neither Russia nor Syria - OR the US or China for that matter - have signed on to the ban.

"Anti-cluster munitions campaigners praised the rapid progress made in the adoption of the convention, and expressed hope that even non-signatories – such as the US, China and Russia – would be discouraged from using the weapons by the entry into force of the convention.[31] As one of the countries that did not ratify the treaty, the United States said that cluster bombs are a legal form of weapon, and that they had a "clear military utility in combat." It also said that compared to other types of weapons, cluster bombs are less harmful to civilians."


Personally, I think they should be completely banned. OTOH, I don't really have an opinion about other countries and cluster bombs for the simple reason they're not MY country, and they're not acting in MY name with MY taxes. What's done in MY name by MY country with MY money I take very personally.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, December 27, 2015 9:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Use of cluster bombs by Russia:
http://www.rferl.org/content/syria-russia-hrw-using-cluster-munitions/
27440005.html
"Human Rights Watch (HRW) has accused both Moscow and Damascus of "extensive use" of banned cluster munitions in Syria.



KPO, G: HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH CAN KISS MY ASS.

HRW has made serious and factually wrong accusations about a number of governments which the USA is trying to destroy, or has actually destroyed.

They "reported" that the Qaddafi government was killing protesters when it wasn't ...
Quote:

The estimated death toll from four days of protests in cities across Libya has risen to at least 233 according to information from hospital sources in Libya, Human Rights Watch said today.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/02/20/libya-governments-should-demand-en
d-unlawful-killings


and thumped that the Assad government had conducted Sarin gas attacks on its own people, when it hadn't. ...
Quote:

Syria: Government Likely Culprit in Chemical Attack
Available evidence strongly suggests that Syrian government forces were responsible for chemical weapons attacks on two Damascus suburbs on August 21, 2013. These attacks, which killed hundreds of civilians including many children, appeared to use a weapons-grade nerve agent, most likely Sarin.


https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/09/10/syria-government-likely-culprit-ch
emical-attack


HRW, a presumed human rights organization, has supported CIA RENDITIONS AND TORTURE
Quote:

In his capacity as an HRW advocacy director, Malinowski contended in 2009 that “under limited circumstances” there was “a legitimate place” for CIA renditions — the illegal practice of kidnapping and transferring terrorism suspects around the planet.

http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2014/05/17/human-rights-watch-ind
ependence-us-government
/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-hypocrisy-of-human-rights-watch/53679
40


HRW is neither honest nor objective. The HRW board and its various functionaries share a revolving door with the Clintons (neocons), the State Department, the CIA, and various investment banks, all of which are actively involved in destabilizing and erasing various governments ...
Quote:

For example, HRW’s Washington advocacy director, Tom Malinowski, previously served as a special assistant to President Bill Clinton and as a speechwriter to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

In 2013, he left HRW after being nominated as Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights & Labor under John Kerry.

In her HRW.org biography, Board of Directors’ Vice Chair Susan Manilow describes herself as “a longtime friend to Bill Clinton” who is “highly involved” in his political party, and “has hosted dozens of events” for the Democratic National Committee.

Currently, HRW Americas’ advisory committee includes Myles Frechette, a former U.S.ambassador to Colombia, and Michael Shifter, one-time Latin America director for the U.S. government-financed National Endowment for Democracy.

Miguel Díaz, a Central Intelligence Agency analyst in the 1990s, sat on HRW Americas’ advisory committee from 2003-11. Now at the State Department, Díaz serves as “an interlocutor between the intelligence community and non-government experts.”



NGOs like HRW and Amnesty International are infested with US-government functionaries and quite often serve as witting tools of USA foreign policy.

Let them squawk. I don't believe them and neither should you. They've been provably wrong with very important accusations .... accusations that led to the destruction of entire national governments... and are no more reliable than the creator of the baby-incubator-hoax which led to the first invasion of Iraq, and the Saddam-WMD hoax which led to the second invasion of Iraq.

In fact, this really belongs in the "How Truth is Manufactured in the West" thread http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57708 which is just another example of scare stories that are cooked up by TPTB to keep you shivering under your bed.




--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

There is a difference between THUGR is a genius., and THUGR is a "genius". And everyone knows it except THUGR, who is a "genius".

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Sunday, December 27, 2015 6:19 PM

KPO


The predictable attacks on Amnesty and Human Rights Watch from Siggy, attacking the sources criticising Russia with 'evidence' from her pro-Russia blogs.

Moving on. An example of how the Syrian regime has been conducting the war for the past few years:

'Horrific' barrel bomb of MSF hospital: http://www.msf.org.uk/article/syria-barrel-bombing-of-msf-supported-ho
spital-kills-seven


Quote:

A double-tap barrel bombing on Saturday 28 November on a Médecins Sans Frontières/Doctors Without Borders (MSF)-supported hospital in a besieged zone in northern Homs governorate, Syria, has caused seven deaths, the partial destruction of the hospital and an influx of 47 wounded patients needing to be transferred to nearby field hospitals, some of whom died en route.

At around 9:40am local time on Saturday 28 November, a barrel bomb was dropped from a helicopter on a populated area of Al Zafarana town, to the north east of Homs city in Syria, killing a man and a young girl, and wounding 16 people.

These patients were admitted to the Al Zafarana hospital in the mass casualty influx.

...

In total these bombings have killed seven and wounded 47 people. Half of the wounded – 23 out of 47 people - were children under 15-years-old and women.

“This bombing shows all the signs of a double-tap, where one area is bombed and then a second bombing hits the paramedic response teams or the nearest hospital providing care,” says Brice de le Vingne, Director of Operations for MSF.

“This double-tap tactic shows a level of calculated destruction that can scarcely be imagined.”



Video of the destruction:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2015/dec/01/msf-hospital-zafara
na-homs-syria-double-tap-barrel-bomb-attack-video


And from the accompanying article:
Quote:

A report released in May by Amnesty International on the use of barrel bombs in Aleppo concluded that they had killed 3,000 civilians and 35 fighters between January 2014 and March 2015. The weapons had killed more than 12,000 people throughout the country from their deployment in 2012 until the date of the report’s release.


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, December 27, 2015 9:37 PM

1KIKI


"The predictable attacks on Amnesty and Human Rights Watch from Siggy ..."

Backed up by facts you completely ignore in your rush to ad hominem. Yes, facts are too much for your little brain, causing it to shrink in fear and quiver, hiding in a corner.

So next time, instead of debating facts, I'll just call you a troll and liar, because hey - that's what YOU do. No discussion of facts required!




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, December 28, 2015 2:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The predictable attacks on Amnesty and Human Rights Watch from Siggy, attacking the sources criticising Russia with 'evidence' from her pro-Russia blogs.
You mean ... like ... the HRW site, which I quoted? You're go-to response is getting tired, thin, and it was always lame.

And you NEVER address facts!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

There is a difference between THUGR is a genius., and THUGR is a "genius". And everyone knows it except THUGR, who is a "genius".

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Monday, December 28, 2015 12:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



So, KRAP (KPO, I'm calling you KRAP for the time-being, since you always seem to spray the board with scheiss) since you have NO-IDEA what pro-Russian websites look like, these are pro-Russian websites...

https://www.rt.com/
http://russia-insider.com/en
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/
http://sputniknews.com/

If you're going to talk about them, you may as well do so with some knowledge of the topic. Or, is speaking with knowledge of a topic anathema to you?

Now, here is a part of what a REAL pro-Russian website says about the report ... (emphasis added)

Quote:

Amnesty Publishes a Biased Report About Russia's Campaign in Syria

Alexander Mercouris Subscribe to Alexander Mercouris

Amnesty International has just released a report accusing the Russian authorities of “shamefully concealing” large numbers of civilian deaths caused by Russian air strikes in Syria. The report also says the Russians might be committing war crimes in Syria.

The Russians have responded to the report by saying it is littered with cliches.

Having read the report, I can say it provides no evidence a court could use.

As Amnesty says, its report was researched “remotely”.

That means there was no field work. No investigators visited the six places where Amnesty says the attacks by the Russians discussed in the report took place. The report is based entirely on reports of alleged eye witnesses and video evidence provided to Amnesty by third parties.

This in itself is worrying. Given that Syria is in a state of civil war with a long history of evidence being manipulated by both sides - especially by the rebels - in pursuit of their objectives, this is a fragile reed upon which to build a report like this. As it happens, detailed examination of the six incidents shows there is no conclusive evidence linking the Russians to any of them.

An attack on Talbisseh on 30th September 2015 is said to have been the result of “suspected Russian air strikes on Karama Street”. Use of certain munitions is attributed to the Russians because “Syrian government forces are not considered capable of delivering them” (“considered” by whom and what if that assumption is wrong?). An attack on Darat Izzah is attributed to a “suspected Russian sea-launched cruise missile”. Civilian deaths on Nuqeyr “purportedly involved cluster munitions”. An attack on Al-Ghantu involved “suspected Russian air strikes”. Two missiles that attacked Sermin were “fired by suspected Russian warplanes”.

Lastly, the report discusses an attack on Ariha without mentioning the Russians or providing any evidence they were involved at all.

Given the myriad number of air forces now operating in Syria, it is impossible to see how Amnesty can be sure that any of these incidents - if they even happened - involved the Russians... The entire report is in fact riddled with this sort of bad reasoning. Besides its repeated use of the word “suspected” (“suspected” by whom?) exposes it for what it actually is - a tissue of guesses and suppositions.

... The real concern must however be about the provenance of the information - such as it is - upon which the report is based.

When discussing the attack on Maasran the report says it arrived at its conclusions based on “images and reports sent to it by Syrian human rights activists and also documented by military and security organisations”.

... This begs the obvious question of who these “Syrian human rights activists” and “military and security organisations” are, and how much reliance can be placed on them? What criteria does Amnesty use to determine whether someone reporting out of Syria is a “human rights activist”?

The expression “human rights activist” implies someone whose primary concern is for human rights and who is therefore in some way detached from the political struggle.

Anyone who has followed the Syrian conflict with any care knows that no such people exist. Individuals and organisations who report about Syria claiming to be “human rights activists” - such as the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights - turn out invariably to be anti-Assad activists and members of the Syrian opposition. As such they cannot be assumed to be unbiased or impartial reporters of what is going on.



You get the general idea.

Fortunately, I don't have to take Russia Insider's or Mercouris' word for what the report says, as they link directly to the Amnesty International website:

Here is AI's press release
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/12/syria-russias-shameful-
failure-to-acknowledge-civilian-killings
/

Here is AI's report
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde24/3113/2015/en/

Have at it.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

There is a difference between THUGR is a genius., and THUGR is a "genius". And everyone knows it except THUGR, who is a "genius".

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Monday, December 28, 2015 3:22 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


There is an inconvenient fact Moscow strategists feel they can ignore when backing the Iranian Shia. 15 percent of Russia’s 144 million people are Muslim. And 95 percent of those are Sunni.


We have a saying here. The chickens come home to roost. It means you have to face the consequences of your mistakes or bad deeds

Sunni and Shia Islam are the two major denominations of Islam. 85-90% of the world's Muslims are Sunni and 10-15% are Shia. Sunnis are a majority in most Muslim communities

Quote:

....SIG

What I heard ... and it was an interesting perspective... is that the USA has gotten itself in the middle of a civil war between Sunnis and Shias. That until/ unless the two sects sort themselves out, there will be constant warfare between the two of them.



http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58696

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Tuesday, December 29, 2015 7:47 PM

KPO


Siggy,

Quote:

You mean ... like ... the HRW site, which I quoted?

The HRW criticised itself on its own website? Err no.

Actually YOU criticised HRW:

Quote:

They "reported" that the Qaddafi government was killing protesters when it wasn't...

...and thumped that the Assad government had conducted Sarin gas attacks on its own people, when it hadn't...



And the evidence you provided for these assertions of HRW's wrongness was... zero. This wasn't evidence-based critique, it was you spouting off conspiracy theories (which you and kiki seem to think are the same as 'facts').

Then of course you added to all that with your pro-Russia/conspiracy blogs - humanrightsinvestigations.org and the laughable Global Research.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, January 5, 2016 12:06 PM

KPO


This guy has done a powerful series of videos on the devastation of the Russian/Syrian airstrikes on Aleppo:


An article on the man here - http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/12/21/meet-the-man-showing-the-world-wha
t-airstrikes-are-doing-to-syria
/

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, January 5, 2016 1:29 PM

KPO


Toll of civilians killed in Syria last year:



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, January 5, 2016 1:33 PM

KPO


One of the milder videos you will see of the effect of Russian/Syrian regime bombing, from a Russian attack on 30th December, courtesy of the Shaam News Network (SNN):



Translation: "Cham Damascus countryside Douma wounded by the bombing of the Russian Aviation 3012 2015 video warning very tough"

An article on the SNN - http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/28/tech/web/shaam-news-syria/



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, January 6, 2016 9:25 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Thank goodness Russia came in and fixed everything.

I wonder if murderers forget why they are killing? At some point you have to guess that orders are given and bombs are dropped all on reflex.

Civilians - who was it that said civilians on both sides always pay the highest price and deserve it the least? Was it Kiki? Signym? (heh, sh*t... *sad laughter*).

"Shortly after Russia’s Syria intervention, Assad troops with support from Iranian forces and Hezbollah militias launched a ground offensive to retake Aleppo and other rebel-held areas. However, the push has not gone as hoped for Damascus and its allies. According to Harmer, the failing offensive explains the rise in civilian attacks.

“If the Syrian army can’t win on the ground, they need to depopulate the city so they can take it,” Harmer said.

For Jarrah and his small crew at ANA Press, that means more rubble, more dead bodies, and more destruction from airstrikes.

“Syrians have lost faith in the world. They see me out there and they tell me that I’m wasting my time,” Jarrah said. “I’m not naive, but I believe in the principles of what I’m doing.”

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Wednesday, January 6, 2016 11:11 PM

1KIKI


Is there a date on the video? Any proof it was Russians - aside from the guy simply asserting it?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, January 6, 2016 11:14 PM

1KIKI


Would be nice to find where this information came from. Besides 'pbs'. Because obviously pbs didn't go around counting bodies - THEY accepted information from somewhere else. But - nope, no source provided. As usual.

And for sure the rebels never killed anyone.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2623121/Rebels-level-histo
ric-Aleppo-hotel-Syria.html

Rebels level historic Aleppo hotel in Syria








SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, January 6, 2016 11:41 PM

1KIKI


BTW - here's a story about the people in SHAAM - they appear to have an extremely heavy anti-Assad bias.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2011-11-18/syrian-american-activists-and-sh
aam-news-network


"“All of those sorts of sources are great for finding information, but you’ve got to do the legwork to verify it,” he says. “The underlying question is always, what’s going on that’s not in the videos? Even if you can use some videos to establish trust in a story, you still don’t know what’s not being captured.” This is the problem: We have scattered images and disjointed clips of what’s happening in Syria, but few unbiased observers to fill in the gaps."




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, January 7, 2016 9:50 AM

KPO


Rami Jarrah travels to visit some FSA rebel fighters facing off against ISIS, who say they are coming under daily bombardment from Russian planes (who don't go after ISIS at all):



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, January 7, 2016 10:01 AM

KPO


Kiki,

Quote:

Any proof it was Russians - aside from the guy simply asserting it?

Large parts of the video are devoted to establishing how they (the citizens of Aleppo) know the planes bombing them are Russian.

Quote:

Would be nice to find where this information came from. Besides 'pbs'.
Quote:

But - nope, no source provided. As usual.

At the bottom of the graphic it says the source, the Syrian Network for Human Rights.

Quote:

And for sure the rebels never killed anyone.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2623121/Rebels-level-histo
ric-Aleppo-hotel-Syria.html


Two points:

1. The source of the footage in the link is the SHAAM news network - which you have just been criticising...
2. According to the link it was a military target the rebels blew up.

You've touched on an important point about the credibility of the information coming out of Syria, I'll respond to that later.


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, January 7, 2016 10:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


KPO, your "# of civilians killed" figures are 50% crap.

There have been a documented 250,000 deaths by now in Syria. OF THOSE, more than half are fighting forces ... 125,000. OF THOSE, they are split roughly half-and-half between the Syrian Army and the "rebel" forces. Your sources are apparently claiming that the Syrian government ("regime") is responsible for all of the remaining civilian deaths?

I think they're basically counting the "rebels" as "civilians" so they can move those deaths from one column to another. The info coming out of Syria is entirely suspect, whether from HRW and Amnesty, or from the Syrian HRO (one guy based in London) or from the government of Syria. I'll get to HRW and Amnesty and their deficiencies later, maybe. You should be more skeptical about all of your sources.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Thursday, January 7, 2016 4:51 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


In the last two years I believe more has happened globally than in the past decade to expose 1kiki and SIG's agenda and beliefs. Their constant defense of Russia and it's allies have been clearly defined in their posts.

What you two comrades are missing that the rest of us are witnessing, is Putin destroying Russia at a quicker pace than those he is fighting clandestinely in the Ukraine and openly in Syria.


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Friday, January 8, 2016 10:21 AM

KPO


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KPO, your "# of civilians killed" figures are 50% crap.

There have been a documented 250,000 deaths by now in Syria. OF THOSE, more than half are fighting forces ... 125,000. OF THOSE, they are split roughly half-and-half between the Syrian Army and the "rebel" forces. Your sources are apparently claiming that the Syrian government ("regime") is responsible for all of the remaining civilian deaths?


Sig I think you're misreading the graphic. It is the total civilian deaths in 2015, not the whole war, and the tally for the Syrian regime is 12,000 not 120,000.

Also the numbers chime with those of other organisations. This NYT article for example draws on figures from the 'Violations Documentation Center' to show that several thousand civilians were killed by the Assad government in 2015 through air attacks alone - http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/09/14/world/middleeast/syria-w
ar-deaths.html?_r=0


Other stats in that article worth highlighting:

Quote:

At least 654 medical workers were killed in attacks on hospitals.

The United Nations has accused the Syrian government of using attacks on hospitals as a “weapon of war.” Physicians for Human Rights documented nearly 300 attacks on hospitals through July, most of them carried out by pro-Assad forces in opposition-controlled areas.


Quote:

At least 565 civilians died from starvation, dehydration or lack of basic medical care.

The death toll, documented by the Syrian American Medical Society through January 2015, does not capture the many people — estimates range from 200,000 to more than 600,000 — who have been under siege for more than a year and are at risk of starving to death or dying from other preventable causes. The majority of those besieged are trapped by the Syrian government in the Damascus area, according to Valerie Szybala, the primary author of a report by the Syrian American Medical Society and executive directive of the Syria Institute, a new think tank.




----------------------------------------------------
SIGNY: "You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns."

Grozny, Russia, 2000:

----------------------------------------------------

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Friday, January 8, 2016 10:54 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

What you two comrades are missing that the rest of us are witnessing, is Putin destroying Russia at a quicker pace than those he is fighting clandestinely in the Ukraine and openly in Syria.




Oh the irony. That hadn't occurred to me - how very interesting T.
I suspect there is a small but growing group of true Russian patriots who do see what's happening, that have enough courage and connections outside of Russia to see beyond the state propaganda machine and are thinking of how to effect a change. It will be interesting to see if there are more open protests in Russia in the coming year.

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Friday, January 8, 2016 11:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Given that Russia is in Syria, defending the legally-recognized government against foreign takfiri-wahhabi-jihadists whose mantra is "covert of die", and saving the nation from the same fate as Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and EVEN THEN all you can do is criticize and cavil, your response to the following thread would be particularly apropos;

WHY I ABHOR RUSSIA
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60306

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, January 8, 2016 11:24 AM

KPO


The Syrian regime and its Hezbollah allies starve a 40,000 population town:


http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/7/madaya-syria-starving.h
tml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35254295
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/people-in-a-besieged-syrian-town-
are-dying-of-hunger-and-the-un-is-worried/2016/01/07/8acc01f4-557c-46b1-83ce-d10dcd8ee256_story.html?postshare=1311452214384459&tid=ss_tw



Hard videos/photos to look at. This kind of atrocity in the 21st century should be above politics, and should be roundly condemned by all.


----------------------------------------------------
SIGNY: "You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns."

Grozny, Russia, 2000:

----------------------------------------------------

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Friday, January 8, 2016 11:48 AM

KPO


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

What you two comrades are missing that the rest of us are witnessing, is Putin destroying Russia at a quicker pace than those he is fighting clandestinely in the Ukraine and openly in Syria.




Oh the irony. That hadn't occurred to me - how very interesting T.
I suspect there is a small but growing group of true Russian patriots who do see what's happening, that have enough courage and connections outside of Russia to see beyond the state propaganda machine and are thinking of how to effect a change. It will be interesting to see if there are more open protests in Russia in the coming year.


There are, but many of them are packing their bags and leaving the country:

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-emigration-emigrants/26970465.html
http://rbth.com/politics/2015/06/24/the_politics_of_emigration_why_are
_russians_packing_their_bags_again_47215.html




----------------------------------------------------
SIGNY: "You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns."

Grozny, Russia, 2000:

----------------------------------------------------

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Friday, January 8, 2016 1:58 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!



Quote:

……SIG
Given that Russia is in Syria, defending the legally-recognized government against foreign takfiri-wahhabi-jihadists whose mantra is "covert of die", and saving the nation from the same fate as Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and EVEN THEN all you can do is criticize and cavil, your response to the following thread would be particularly apropos;

*WHY I ABHOR RUSSIA*




First of all SIG, the claims you make as to what Russia is doing come right from Putin’s propaganda machine.

The fact that you and 1kiki think the rest of us are stupid by denying your loyalties to Russia is insulting.

In the link you provide you claim that all a few of us here do is attack Russia. I would ask you or anyone who is interested to look at all the threads you and 1kiki have created. The theme is an onslaught against the West.

You reap what you sow comrade.

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Sunday, January 10, 2016 10:38 AM

KPO


Starving boy in Madaya, town being starved by the Syrian regime:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/08/un-calls-access-starving
-syrians/78521220
/


Meanwhile, Assad and Hezbollah supporters taunt starving Madaya residents on social media - http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2016/1/9/hizballah-supporters
-taunt-starving-madaya-residents-with-food-pictures



Meanwhile, on Russian media... *crickets*


----------------------------------------------------
SIGNY: "You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns."

Grozny, Russia, 2000:

----------------------------------------------------

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Sunday, January 10, 2016 11:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



The supposed ''pretty Syrian girl'' that is ''starving'' in Madaya is fake

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd0_1452374287#f8WMpX2tLHc75C75.99


The Russian POV

Quote:

Blockade of Madaya

Difficult situation remains in the besieged city of Madaya near Damascus, which suddenly became famous thanks to the recent fakes from the opposition, which were then spread worldwide by the BBC and other 'advocates' of human rights.

Reporting about starving residents, they forgot to mention that the residents are starving due to 600 fighters of Ahrar ash-Sham, Jabhat al-Nusra and Free Syrian army entrenched in the city, who made the residents a bargaining chip in their negotiations with the government, hiding behind them as a human shield.

There is food in the city, but it is available only to those who have money, because the militants inflated the prices, including for "humanitarian aid".

The opposition also failed to mention about the recent demonstrations in the city, where residents demanded that the militants leave and allow the army to enter the city. They don't mention that yesterday the government gave the green light for delivery of UN humanitarian aid to the city

That last part is surely verifiable, since a third party (whoever is providing the aid) should be able to authenticate the agreement.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

So, why do you hate Russia so much?

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Monday, January 11, 2016 10:33 AM

KPO


Quote:

The supposed ''pretty Syrian girl'' that is ''starving'' in Madaya is fake

Which 'pretty girl' photo are you talking about? And are you suggesting that all the images of starving people that we are seeing out of Madaya are fake?

Quote:

Reporting about starving residents, they forgot to mention that the residents are starving due to 600 fighters of Ahrar ash-Sham, Jabhat al-Nusra and Free Syrian army entrenched in the city... There is food in the city, but it is available only to those who have money, because the militants inflated the prices...

What bullshit. Your 'Russian POV' is wrong, as usual. Why don't you check the facts before parroting it?

"The United Nations pointed out that it requires Syrian government permission to send food aid to the estimated 400,000 needy people living in various areas around Syria that are besieged by government forces. But in the past year, only 10 percent of requests have been granted, the United Nations said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/people-in-a-besieged-syrian-town-
are-dying-of-hunger-and-the-un-is-worried/2016/01/07/8acc01f4-557c-46b1-83ce-d10dcd8ee256_story.html?postshare=1311452214384459&tid=ss_tw


Madaya last received a joint UN/SARC/ICRC convoy on 18 October 2015 and medical evacuations in December, but has been inaccessible since then despite numerous requests for access. The UN welcomes today’s approval from the Government of Syria to access Madaya, Foah and Kefraya and is preparing to deliver humanitarian assistance in the coming days.

http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Joint%20State
ment%20by%20Yacoub%20El%20Hillo%20and%20Kevin%20Kennedy_english%20FINAL.pdf


Quote:

They don't mention that yesterday the government gave the green light for delivery of UN humanitarian aid to the city

It's all over the news that the government gave the green light for UN aid in recent days - but only after shocking photos of people starving to death emerged, and the regime started to get international criticism. And here 'the Russian POV' is blatantly contradicting itself - what happened to the ridiculous theory that it was the rebels in the city who were starving the people despite there being food available? Why then does a UN deal with the Syrian government make a difference?

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Monday, January 11, 2016 10:56 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Here- the Twitter-feed that you love so much, from reddit:

Civilians in Madaya confront militant blocking the road: "Don't you have children? Are you not Hungry? We are Hungry!"
https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/3znqu7/civilians_in_m
adaya_confront_militant_blocking
/

The rebels were offered to evacuate the town & move to Idlib multiple times, they refused, still refuse while civilians starve
https://twitter.com/Souria4Syrians/status/684559608946552833

I've heard of this deal being offered to the people of Hama (IIRC) - all of the militants and their families who want to leave were offered a bus ride to Idlib. That is how the Syrian government is trying to resolve the problem: By separating the sheep from the goats, and moving the goats to Idlib (which seems to be a recurring destination). The goats, unfortunately, refuse be separated from their hostages.

NOW, as far as the FOOD SITUATION. The last delivered aid was in October. The next UN-scheduled aid was Dec 29. The delivery was delayed, probably because the aid actually wound up in the hand of the jihadists, who will use that food to extract compliance AND MONEY from the populace. What I have read, after doing a quick search on Madaya starvation, and going PAST the western press (which didn't mind accusing Saddam of deploying WMD, or Qaddafi of massacring his population and fostering Viagara-fueled mass rapes, or Assad of using Sarin gas on his own people ... none of which, I remind you, actually happened as written) is that, as in so many instances of aid, the aid organizations are not able to control who gets the food, and the strongest groups are able to commandeer the assistance, leaving everyone else to starve.

Nonetheless, the food is being delivered - 10 days late. Let's hope at least SOME of it makes it past the jihadists and to the children!


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2016 11:53 AM

KPO


UN: 400 civilians need to be urgently evacuated and treated due to severe malnutrition in Syrian government-starved town - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35289372

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Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:13 PM

KPO


Quote:

NOW, as far as the FOOD SITUATION. The last delivered aid was in October. The next UN-scheduled aid was Dec 29 . The delivery was delayed, probably because the aid actually wound up in the hand of the jihadists, who will use that food to extract compliance AND MONEY from the populace.

No, let me quote the UN AGAIN:

"Madaya last received a joint UN/SARC/ICRC convoy on 18 October 2015 and medical evacuations in December, but has been inaccessible since then despite numerous requests for access. The UN welcomes today’s approval from the Government of Syria to access Madaya..."

So the UN has been blocked from delivering aid on numerous occasions by the Syrian government.

Quote:

Civilians in Madaya confront militant blocking the road: "Don't you have children? Are you not Hungry? We are Hungry!"
https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/3znqu7/civilians_in_m
adaya_confront_militant_blocking
/


No real surprise that when a town is starved and there's not enough food to go round the men with guns end up better off than others. Interesting that you give the Syrian government, the ones actually starving the town, a complete pass on this.

Quote:

The rebels were offered to evacuate the town & move to Idlib multiple times, they refused, still refuse while civilians starve

Blaming the rebels for not giving up the town, instead of the Syrian government for starving the town. Incredible.

Quote:

That is how the Syrian government is trying to resolve the problem: By separating the sheep from the goats

Err no, they're starving both the sheep and the goats. It's collective punishment, and it's a war crime.

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Wednesday, January 13, 2016 5:43 PM

KPO


Russia is arming terrorist group Hezbollah in Syria, according to two of their commanders - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/11/russia-is-arming-hezb
ollah-say-two-of-the-group-s-field-commanders.html


(Hezbollah are the ones starving the Syrian town Madaya, along with the Syrian government)

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Friday, January 15, 2016 1:48 PM

KPO

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Friday, January 15, 2016 1:59 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


KPO ... BLAH BLAH BLAH. UK government says this. UK government says that. More blah blah blah.

Oh, BTW- OF COURSE Russia is helping Hezbollah! Dood, that's why they call their coalition the four + one. It hasn't been a secret since September. DO try to keep up!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, January 15, 2016 3:52 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KPO ... BLAH BLAH BLAH. UK government says this. UK government says that. More blah blah blah.

Oh, BTW- OF COURSE Russia is helping Hezbollah! Dood, that's why they call their coalition the four + one. It hasn't been a secret since September. DO try to keep up!




There is no hope at all for you SIG. You are as described below.

Pathological lying (also called pseudologia fantastica and mythomania), is a behavior of habitual or compulsive lying.[1][2] It was first described in the medical literature in 1891 by Anton Delbrueck.[2] Although it is a controversial topic,[2] pathological lying has been defined as "falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, may be extensive and very complicated, and may manifest over a period of years or even a lifetime".[1] The individual may be aware they are lying, or may believe they are telling the truth.

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Saturday, January 16, 2016 7:52 AM

KPO


Quote:

KPO ... BLAH BLAH BLAH. UK government says this. UK government says that.

Sig, many of us are just as dismissive of what the Russian government says as you are of what the UK or US governments say. And many people are as interested in what the UK/US governments have to say as much as you are interested in what the Russian government has to say.

Quote:

Oh, BTW- OF COURSE Russia is helping Hezbollah! Dood, that's why they call their coalition the four + one.

Fighting alongside a terrorist group is one thing, giving heavy weapons to a terrorist group that they can use for future terrorist attacks on civilians, is another. Not that Putin cares much about civilian lives, as this thread shows.

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Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Sig, many of us are just as dismissive of what the Russian government says as you are of what the UK or US governments say. And many people are as interested in what the UK/US governments have to say as much as you are interested in what the Russian government has to say.

KOP, you and your internet clones are more than "interested" in what western media has to say, you BELIEVE it, despite the fact that western media has lied to you over and over- and you've been fooled over and over. So, what- not learning from experience yet?

The difference between you and me is that you read ONE side and believe it; I read BOTH sides, and believe neither.

I look for probative evidence and admissions of guilt. That is why when one side releases information which is self-damning, I give it more weight. Because, what's the motivation for releasing information which self-incriminating? The only reason to do that is because something even more damning might come out later, so you get people to focus on the less serious crime.

Quote:

Fighting alongside a terrorist group is one thing, giving heavy weapons to a terrorist group that they can use for future terrorist attacks on civilians, is another.
Then stop giving/selling weapons to Israel and Saudi Arabia. Did you not notice that? It's funny how it's "terrorism" when the "other side" does it, but becomes invisible when "your side" does it.

Quote:

Not that Putin cares much about civilian lives, as this thread shows.
First of all, you're - once again!- using allegations to convict. Pretend like you're in a court of law. Weigh the evidence.

Secondly, if there is a set of nations which CLEARLY doesn't care about civilian deaths, its the western nations - US, UK, and France primarily; Saudi Arabia and Israel. Between us, we've managed to rack up over a million civilian dead since 2003, and have not got a sensible resolution to any of our "regime change" operations, but instead have left wide swaths of failed states filled with jihadi terrorists (which IMHO was "Plan B" all along anyway. Heck, maybe it was even "Plan A". )

Aren't you the pot calling the teaspoon black? I mean, the cumulative deaths hardly compare.

Be real.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, January 19, 2016 2:51 PM

KPO


Quote:

I read BOTH sides, and believe neither .

Right. That's why your worldview only lines up with Russian propaganda 99% of the time.

Quote:

The difference between you and me is that you read ONE side and believe it

The difference between you and me is that you don't know the difference between free media and state propaganda that comes out of authoritarian regimes in places such as Russia, Syria, Iran, North Korea etc.

Quote:

what western media has to say, you BELIEVE it, despite the fact that western media has lied to you over and over- and you've been fooled over and over.

Give specific examples of Western media lies that I've been fooled by. Please include:

1. Links to the media articles, and the specific 'lies' in question
2. Proof that the 'lies' are in fact lies.
3. Quotes of me that show that I have taken in the lies.

(By the way I could do this easily for YOU being fooled by Russian media lies)



Quote:

Did you not notice that? It's funny how it's "terrorism" when the "other side" does it, but becomes invisible when "your side" does it.

False projection of exactly the kind of hypocrisy that you yourself are guilty of. There is no internationally agreed upon/legal definition of 'terrorism', but any definition that calls state actors 'terrorist' is an incredibly dumb one. Just my opinion. For example, how do you justify calling Saudi Arabia 'terrorist', but not Putin, or Assad? Your inability to answer this question (not the first time I've assked it) shows that it is you who has the half-baked and ultimately hypocritical definition of terrorism.

Quote:

its the western nations - US, UK, and France primarily; Saudi Arabia and Israel.

Saudi Arabia is a Western nation...?

Quote:

Between us, we've managed to rack up over a million civilian dead since 2003

I'm not really interested in your crude and highly biased accounting. Let me guess, Iraqi Shia and Iraqi Sunni militias killing people using AK-47s, you count in the "civilians killed by America" column?

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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 2:40 PM

KPO


Buzzfeed: "Russia Is Bombing Syria’s Children — These Are Their Stories" - http://www.buzzfeed.com/borzoudaragahi/russia-is-bombing-syrias-childr
en-these-are-their-stories#.xyYL5XpBla


Quote:

Then, in October last year, Russian planes began to scour the skies.

Abdel Rahman was standing outside his family home in the tiny Syrian village of Marayan on a November afternoon when the Russian rocket hit, knocking him to the ground. He felt fine when he came to moments later, he said, and tried to get up. That’s when he realized both his legs had been blown off. “I looked up and my brother was screaming, but I lost consciousness,” he recalled.


Quote:

Zakaria Ibrahim, 26, an anesthetist at a gynecology clinic in Azaz, was working when a Russian missile struck within 10 meters of the facility, setting parts of it on fire. “Now the hospital is closed,” he said, as he waits for a lift home near the Turkish border after finishing a rotation.
“The idea is to weaken the civilians to make those living under the opposition areas feel life is hell,” he said. “By targeting bakeries, schools, and hospitals, you make people lose all hope.”


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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 7:42 PM

1KIKI


I researched your link krappo, something you should have done before swallowing its cum.

BuzzFeed is corporate media. As such it owes its continued existence and the preservation of its wealth - nearly a billion dollars - to its money sources, in this case venture capitalists and trending 'news' with attendant ads.

The 'reporter' who wrote the story did NOT investigate the facts on the ground. He reported from Istanbul (in Turkey, you may recall) about things that happed in Syria. Rather than go to Syria, he instead relied on distant claims (two articles in other newspapers one of them being his own, two attributed phone calls to Salafist terrorists, a State Department press release) and all other sources were unattributed to anyone or anything.
One article was from a dubious source: "The Observatory" founder, who is one sole man based in London, who has publicly called Syrian 'rebels' and army defectors 'martyrs' (no bias there). The other article was, as I said, him referencing himself.
Then there wore the two Salafist terrorists whose words he accepted at face value. They're the foreign terrorists in Syria who saw off heads with dull knives, and in this case Saudi Arabian, Turkic and Qatar-backed.
And the State Department press release I already mentioned.
And then there were literally more than a dozen unsupported and unattributed statements, assertions, claims and 'reports'.

I've included the information below. I didn't list every single unsupported, unattributed claim or 'report' below, just a few selected examples.


Borzou Daragahi
biography here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borzou_Daragahi

BuzzFeed News Middle East
BuzzFeed is corporate media
"BuzzFeed, Inc. is a privately-held, venture capital backed company, with revenue derived from sites that act as trends aggregators and serve as a technology platform for detecting viral content through an editorial selection process."
WIKI: "Funding
In August 2014, BuzzFeed raised $50 million from the venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz, more than doubling previous rounds of funding.[9] The site was reportedly valued at around $850 million by Andreessen Horowitz.[9] BuzzFeed generates its advertising revenue through native advertising that matches its own editorial content, and does not rely on banner ads.[10]
In August 2015, NBCUniversal made a $200 million equity investment in Buzzfeed.[11] Along with plans to hire more journalists to build a more prominent "investigative" unit, BuzzFeed is hiring journalists around the world and plans to open outposts in India, Germany, Mexico, and Japan.[12]
In December 2014, growth equity firm General Atlantic acquired $50M in secondary stock of the company.[13]"

REYHANLI, Turkey
Article was filed from Turkey.

"Abdel Rahman was standing outside his family home in the tiny Syrian village of Marayan on a November afternoon when the Russian rocket hit, knocking him to the ground."
Claim. No evidence.
"Thaer was gathering firewood when another Russian missile hit."
Claim. No evidence.

"The Kremlin’s stated aim is to help the Syrian regime confront ISIS — but it has since directed as much as 90% of its bombing at rebel-held areas, according to U.S. State Department officials who testified before Congress in November."
US State Department officials said so.

--linked in article "The Britain-based Observatory has an extensive network of sources inside Syria."
-- from Wiki: "The United Kingdom-based SOHR is run out of a two-bedroom terraced home in Coventry by Rami Abdulrahman,[3] a Syrian Sunni Muslim who also runs a clothes shop. After being imprisoned three times in Syria, Abdulrahman fled to the United Kingdom fearing a fourth jail term.[1] The New York Times in April 2013 described him being on the phone all day every day with contacts in Syria, and checking all information himself. How?
"Abdulrahman reports on events in the Syrian uprising, including the deaths of civilians, rebels and army defectors (whom he calls "martyrs")" I'd say that indicates a lot of bias. I'd be wary of 'The Observatory's" reports.

"said Islam Allouch, an Istanbul-based spokesperson for Jeish al-Islam, a Saudi-backed rebel group"
WIKI - "Jeish al-Islam is a coalition of multiple Islamist and Salafist" ...
Salafists are the people who saw off heads. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/12/10/graphic-images-syrian-rebel
s-allegedly-use-small-boy-to-help-them-behead-captive
/ Also, krappo thinks it's OK that Saudis field foreigners in Syria. And that their statements are true.

"said Ahmed Zaki Assi, a spokesperson for the hardline Islamist rebel group Ahrar al-Sham, a force of 10,000 to 20,000 fighters said to be backed by Turkey and Qatar."
IBID, except substitute Saudi Arabia with Turkey and Qatar.

"The two boys are among the tens of thousands maimed, wounded, or displaced in the 100 days of fighting in Syria since Russia intervened in the conflict."
Source?

"All of this has happened without appreciably changing the dynamics of the war."
Evidence?

"Mostly, say 'rebel' units ..." Terrorists "... and experts ..." Who?

"Russians struck a convoy of relief vehicles coming from Turkey into Azaz, according to reports. Two days later, they hit the city center, terrifying Abdul-Salaam’s mother."
Which reports? Who verified any of this information?

"Syrian rebels, armed with weapons supplied from the Gulf, fought back both the Kurds, who have formed a de facto alliance with Moscow, and ISIS."
Evidence?

"(Russia) ... has largely ignored the humanitarian consequences of its intervention"
Do foreign terrorists get a pass?

"until a Russian jet fired at their home"
Evidence?

"International relief groups say"
Which ones? And why aren't they named and quoted directly?

and so on ....




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 7:45 PM

1KIKI


I literally laughed out loud at this post krappo. You - as always - provided no evidence (just claim, after government pronouncement, after presstitute article) and couldn't even scrape up any logic.

And then you used THIS as if it was some stroke of brilliance: "Saudi Arabia is a Western nation...?" Aside from the fact that you failed to address the point of state-sponsored terrorism (You've heard of that, I presume? It's been all over the news for years.), you failed to notice the semi-colon. Is your English really as bad as you honesty and your logic? Or are you just a tired whore, who can't even keep up the appearance of trying to make sense anymore?


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

I read BOTH sides, and believe neither .

Right. That's why your worldview only lines up with Russian propaganda 99% of the time.

Quote:

The difference between you and me is that you read ONE side and believe it

The difference between you and me is that you don't know the difference between free media and state propaganda that comes out of authoritarian regimes in places such as Russia, Syria, Iran, North Korea etc.

Quote:

what western media has to say, you BELIEVE it, despite the fact that western media has lied to you over and over- and you've been fooled over and over.

Give specific examples of Western media lies that I've been fooled by. Please include:

1. Links to the media articles, and the specific 'lies' in question
2. Proof that the 'lies' are in fact lies.
3. Quotes of me that show that I have taken in the lies.

(By the way I could do this easily for YOU being fooled by Russian media lies)



Quote:

Did you not notice that? It's funny how it's "terrorism" when the "other side" does it, but becomes invisible when "your side" does it.

False projection of exactly the kind of hypocrisy that you yourself are guilty of. There is no internationally agreed upon/legal definition of 'terrorism', but any definition that calls state actors 'terrorist' is an incredibly dumb one. Just my opinion. For example, how do you justify calling Saudi Arabia 'terrorist', but not Putin, or Assad? Your inability to answer this question (not the first time I've assked it) shows that it is you who has the half-baked and ultimately hypocritical definition of terrorism.

Quote:

its the western nations - US, UK, and France primarily; Saudi Arabia and Israel.

Saudi Arabia is a Western nation...?

Quote:

Between us, we've managed to rack up over a million civilian dead since 2003

I'm not really interested in your crude and highly biased accounting. Let me guess, Iraqi Shia and Iraqi Sunni militias killing people using AK-47s, you count in the "civilians killed by America" column?






SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 8:50 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!



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Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:42 AM

KPO


Quote:

BuzzFeed is corporate media.

The fact that Buzzfeed is privately owned is a point in its favour. Rather media is controlled by a variety of competing businesses (the West) than all owned/controlled/censored by a single corrupt regime (Russia).

Quote:

As such it owes its continued existence... to its money sources, in this case venture capitalists and trending 'news' with attendant ads.

Usually capitalists fund things that are going to make them money, so yes, Buzzfeed owes its existence to being profitable, and attracting a high viewership. A lot of ways for a news site to do this, but a key one is to maintain a certain minimum level of quality and accuracy in the journalism - the product.

An interesting side discussion on capitalism and different systems of media in a society, but it's probably for another thread.

Quote:

The 'reporter' who wrote the story did NOT investigate the facts on the ground. He reported from Istanbul (in Turkey)

Good point! Wow, I wonder if you will be half as scrutinising as this when it comes to posting your own and Signy's news sources. Has Zero Hedge ever been to Syria? What about all the other random blogs Signy posts from?

A key point here is that very few foreign journalists report from Syria. Not only is it a horrific warzone, there is also a specific threat to foreigners of kidnap and beheading by ISIS.

As for there being a lot of unsubstantiated claims in the article, yes I agree, and I almost didn't post it for that reason. But there are two types of things that I look for in links that I post to this thread:

1) Factual, incriminating - reliable info on who is committing what atrocities
2) A vivid picture of the human effect of 1)

1) is most important of course, but once it is established it is also important to face up to 2). In short, I posted the Buzzfeed link because there is ample evidence of maimed and injured Syrian children (victims of Russian/regime airstrikes on rebel-held areas) - and the claims in the article simply fit the pattern of what we know is happening.

Let's look at some more evidence of the war crimes that Russia and Assad are committing. This article quotes several aid agencies and a UN report on the effects of the Russian/regime bombing on Northern Syria (all of the groups have staff ON THE GROUND in Syria, so I am sure you will listen to what they say). I have underlined their direct quotes for you:

Quote:

BEIRUT — Aid agencies are warning of a worsening humanitarian crisis in northern Syria as sharply intensified Russian airstrikes paralyze aid supply routes, knock out bakeries and hospitals and kill and maim civilians in growing numbers.

Air attacks have escalated significantly since Turkey shot down a Russian warplane along the Turkey-Syria border on Nov. 24, the aid agencies say...

...

Hospitals and health facilities also have been struck, reducing the availability of medical care for those injured in the bombings. According to the U.N. report, at least 20 medical facilities have been hit nationwide in Syria since Russia launched its air war on Sept. 30.

“This is an emerging humanitarian crisis. There is extreme suffering, and people are not being protected,” said Rae McGrath, country director for Turkey and North Syria for the American aid agency Mercy Corps, one of the largest providers of food aid in northern Syria. Since the Russian strikes began, the agency has been able to deliver only a fifth of the amount it normally provides, he said.

“We’re also seeing a huge increase in the number of civilian casualties. More and more people are being hurt because the intensity of bombing is greater,” he added. “It’s hard to imagine that the conditions in Syria could have become worse than they already were, but they have.”

...

Though it is impossible to confirm that civilians are being deliberately targeted, aid workers say the attacks on civilian infrastructure appear frequent and systematic enough to suggest that they are.

A grain silo that supplied wheat to Idlib province, 10 bakeries that collectively catered to at least 200,000 people and several mills and warehouses that stored flour are among the targets that have been hit since Nov. 24, according to the U.N. report.

...

Among the medical facilities hit since the Russian intervention are 12 in northern Syria that are supported by Doctors Without Borders, said Pablo Marco, who is in charge of the agency’s programs in Syria and does not think the health centers were struck by accident.

“Of course it is impossible for us to have certainty, but the frequency with which bombs are falling in hospitals or very close to hospitals is enough to make it really seem that, yes, they are targeting hospitals,” he said.

The attacks cast doubt on the prospects for a peace process launched by world leaders at talks in Vienna last month, said Jan Egeland, secretary general of the Norwegian Refugee Council, one of the groups that has suspended its aid operations in northern Syria as a result of the attacks. He also warned of more misery ahead as winter descends.

“Civilians have been left with nowhere safe to flee. Schools, markets and bakeries are being bombed and women and children are under fire,” he said.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/russian-airstrikes-fo
rce-a-halt-to-aid-in-syria-triggering-a-new-crisis/2015/12/14/cebc4b66-9f87-11e5-9ad2-568d814bbf3b_story.html


So kiki, any concern that Russia and the Syrian regime has been bombing and starving civilians, according to numerous aid agencies ON THE GROUND, and the UN? Or perhaps even, any condemnation??

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Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:47 AM

KPO


More from the UN - a confirmation that the Syrian regime was responsible for starving the town of Madaya:

Quote:

The Government of Syria and allied forces have surrounded the area of Madaya and Bqine since July 2015. Since September 2015, these forces have imposed increasingly strict restrictions on humanitarian access, commercial traffic on freedom of movement for the civilians inside the enclave, under the control of several non-state armed groups since late 2012. Despite the existence of a local agreement since January 2015, the access restrictions imposed on Madaya have translated into a severe deterioration of the living conditions for the estimated 42,000 people trapped in Madaya and Bqine

http://www.unocha.org/aggregator/sources/85

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Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:56 AM

KPO


More from the UN, on Russian/regime airstrikes on civilians, civilian infrastructure, fuel and food lines and refugee camps (!!):

Quote:

Civilian Infrastructure Hit and Humanitarian Aid Workers Killed in Northwestern Governorates

GoS and allied forces airstrikes reportedly impacted civilian infrastructure in northwestern governorates in Syria from 02 to 22 December. Most recently on 20 December, six airstrikes hit a public market in Idleb City killing more than 50 people and wounding approximately 150 people most of whom were evacuated to Turkey for treatment.

One NGO staff member and two civil defense workers were among those killed while a number of NGO staff were wounded in this attack prompting safety concerns for humanitarian staff working in Idleb City. The airstrikes also destroyed a school, a court building, and a collective shelter housing newly displaced IDPs.

Airstrikes hit a fuel market in Ma’aret al-Nassan in Idleb governorate frequented by civilians on 15 December, killing approximately 16 people and wounding over 50 people. Fuel prices have risen dramatically over the last month in areas held by Non-State Armed Groups (NSAGs) due to repeated attacks on fuel supply lines and infrastructure and the subsequent shortage of fuel. According to local sources, as of 21 December the price of diesel has risen from 250 Syrian Pounds to 375 Syrian Pounds in Idleb governorate since late November.

One NGO staff was killed by artillery fire in Khan al-Shaykhoun and a NGO supported hospital was partially damaged in Taftanaz due to a missile hitting in close proximity to the hospital on 13 December. This resulted in the main generator catching fire and causing subsequent damage. In another airstrike on 11 December, one bread distribution point was hit killing six civilians and wounding at least ten others. According to the Camp Coordination and Camp Management (CCCM) cluster, 2,538 individuals were displaced between 17 November and 18 December bringing the number of IDPs displaced from and within Idleb to 206,254 people as of 18 December.

In Lattakia, GoS and allied forces continued their airstrikes in Turkmen and Akrad mountains in northern Lattakia, an area with the presence of 14 NGO supported IDP settlements hosting 12,882 IDPs. Due to ongoing airstrikes and ground clashes between GoS and allied forces and NSAGs 11,245 people were displaced from 17 November to 18 December in Lattakia according to the CCCM cluster. Approximately 4,000 families living in IDP camps and settlements along the M4 highway near the Turkish border area of Yamadiya are living in close proximity to active frontlines. Protection fears for IDPs in these camps were raised considerably on 09 December after airstrikes and surface-to-surface missiles hit Obein IDP (refugee - KPO) camp in Lattakia, killing seven civilians and wounding many others.
In the southern countryside of Aleppo governorate, airstrikes hit two field hospitals in Khan al-Touman and Zarbah killing five people and wounding an unverified number of people on 09 December and 22 December, respectively.

A medical warehouse containing life-saving aid and medical items was severely damaged in Kafer Hamra town in Haritan sub-district of Aleppo on 07 December, after being hit by airstrikes that killed a number of civilians and wounded one NGO staff. The capacity of health infrastructure and the ability of health NGOs to respond to medical needs in the area have severely deteriorated.


http://reliefweb.int/report/syrian-arab-republic/turkey-syria-flash-up
date-developments-northwestern-governorates-22

Well kiki?

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Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:56 AM

KPO


double

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