Monsters.
POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 26, 2026 20:52
VIEWED: 14074
PAGE 1 of 3
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/28/california.rape.investigation/inde
x.html
Some quotes from this article:
(1) "Authorities have described the incident as a two-and-a-half-hour assault that occurred on the Richmond High School campus, in the Richmond community north of Oakland on San Francisco Bay."
(2) "We do not want this incident to be an excuse to further criminalize the young people of this city," Murillo said."
(3) "Lorna McClellan, a Richmond High teacher, said it was wrong that the community was being portrayed as a place that does not stand up for victims."
(4) "Yes, something horrible and atrocious happened on our campus, and yes, blame lies with the school officials, with the teachers, with the district, with the police, with the students were afraid to speak up. But it's important to realize that our community realizes this is a problem, and we are taking active steps to fix it," McClellan said.
(5) Gagan said police arrested three of the suspects Tuesday night. They included Salvador Rodriguez, 21, as well as a 16-year-old and a 17-year-old whose identities were not released because they are juveniles, he said.
A 19-year-old, Manuel Ortega, and an unidentified 15-year-old were arrested earlier, he said.
(6) As many as 10 people were involved in the assault in a dimly lighted back alley at the school, police have said, while another 10 people watched without calling 911 to report it.
(7) The victim was found unconscious and "brutally assaulted" under a bench shortly before midnight Saturday, after police received a call from someone in the area who had overheard people at the assault scene talking about the incident, police said.
The girl was flown by helicopter to a hospital, where she was admitted in critical condition.
..........................................
1. 2 and 1/2 hours of gang rape. Had the victim had a gun, she may have been able to defend herself.
2. Classic liberal-minded blame shift. "Further criminalize...ect ect
3. 10 animals/zombies/monsters, whatever, raped a girl for 2 and 1/2 hours, while at least 10 others watched.
4. More blame shifting.
5. Ok, Hispanic gang bangers. We are surprised at this?
6. I think the 10 who watched are just as guilty.
7. So after they raped her for hours, they dumped her under a bench.
......................................................
Ok, I have a few questions for the people here.
(A) Tactically, what is the best way to handle a situation like this? Lets assume 2 scenarios.
1. You are armed. Legally, can you fire arbitrarily into the crowd? Or should you try and disperse them by firing into the air? These animals are, likewise, probably armed.
1(A) What charges can you face for having a gun, loaded in California, and trying to save the girl?
2. You are unarmed. Fall back, call the police, watch with the rest? Charge in after calling the police and try and pull them off?
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bump
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unbump.
Wulf. Get a new issue. Everything comes down to racial profiling and the second amendment. It was old a long time ago, now it's undead.
I would take a different angle: What do expect? This is public school. Rape is an integral part of the institution, as is violence and drug trafficking. Of course that's not why it exists, it exists to brainwash the next generation, but these things happen because the system is run by the govt. and so is run very poorly.
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It's so sickening that is hard to even think about it. They should suspend all extracurricular activity for starters. They should try, convict, and lock up ALL who were there, whether they participated or watched. The ones that took pics should be charged with child porn. They should do something to make amends to this girl. I don't know what could ever be enough though. All teachers, students, and staff should be required to attend special rape prevention classes, including watching hours & hours of rape-victim interviews. Things have to change. What parent could send their child to this school now? But they're in class today I understand. How can they all look at each other?
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As a repeat of my questions above:
"Ok, I have a few questions for the people here.
(A) Tactically, what is the best way to handle a situation like this? Lets assume 2 scenarios.
1. You are armed. Legally, can you fire arbitrarily into the crowd? Or should you try and disperse them by firing into the air? These animals are, likewise, probably armed.
1(A) What charges can you face for having a gun, loaded in California, and trying to save the girl?
2. You are unarmed. Fall back, call the police, watch with the rest? Charge in after calling the police and try and pull them off?"
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Jeezus, of course Wulfie would take a truly horrible story, and turn it into a screed against liberals. You are such a hopeless douchebag.
I love that your sole solution here is let her carry a gun to school. Yeah, giving High School kids guns will totally fix the world. Moron.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
This is public school. Rape is an integral part of the institution, as is violence and drug trafficking. Of course that's not why it exists, it exists to brainwash the next generation, but these things happen because the system is run by the govt. and so is run very poorly.
At least Wulf isn't the only crazy person in this thread.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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The article says that this happened during a homecoming dance, at night.
It makes me wonder what role alcohol played in the crime and the actions of the spectators.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
wonder what role alcohol played
Okay. No. I get so tired of hearing that excuse from criminals and their victims. "The evil fire water made him do it." No. If we were all honest with ourselves, we would know and admit that nobody does anything when they're drunk that they don't at least consider when they're sober. The most alcohol does is maybe quieting the "Maybe I don't want to do that, maybe that would be a bad choice, maybe that would embarrass me, maybe that would get me arrested" sort of thoughts people would generally have. Plenty of people ignore that part of their thinking without needed to resort to inebriation. Being drunk has become a handy excuse people can use to get away with bringing out the worst of themselves and parading it for the world. Sometimes the worst of someone is dancing on a table, singing badly and flashing people. Sometimes the worst of someone is rape or murder. Sometimes the worst of someone is standing around doing nothing when something terrible is happening.
There is no excuse for this. It should have been stopped. Guns aren't necessary to stop this sort of thing and odds are if the girl in question had been carrying a gun, she would have ended up shot with it. If someone else had been carrying a gun and used it to try and stop what was happening, they may have ended up shot themselves, or they may have ended up in jail, even though they were trying to stop a crime. Clearly the system isn't perfect, there, but the question would be why they were carrying a deadly weapon around. Just in case there was some crime to be stopped? No, probably not.
The solution to this sort of problem is not to arm everyone to the teeth. That way could lead to constant war in the streets. The solution is to educate. Properly. I'm not just talking about reading and math, I'm talking about emotional education. Fostering empathy instead of violence and hatred and disregard. It's the best path and the most difficult. And for those that it didn't work on, they could be locked up for life, I'd be fine with that. Maybe better yet, hanged, I'd probably be fine with that too.
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Two war movies : Platoon & Casualties Of War - they both had scenes of gang rape, but both also had brave heroes who stood against the mob's barbarism, and that became the central theme of both stories. I don't know enough about the environment at this school to make a judgement or finger-point, but making judgements about right & wrong is an important and necessary part of being a human being in a civilized society. It should be a part of a child's education in schools, but I don't know if it is anymore.
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Quote:It's clear logic:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Jeezus, of course Wulfie would take a truly horrible story, and turn it into a screed against liberals. You are such a hopeless douchebag.
Wolfenstar hates rapists.
Wolfenstar hates liberals.
Liberals are rapists.
Clear, right?
/snark. Pissed off snark. Pissed off enough to make me actually post to RWED after long away.
Douchebag indeed.
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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This is not about me.
Ill repeat my questions for the 3rd time. Maybe someone can take a stab at answering them.
"(A) Tactically, what is the best way to handle a situation like this? Lets assume 2 scenarios.
1. You are armed. Legally, can you fire arbitrarily into the crowd? Or should you try and disperse them by firing into the air? These animals are, likewise, probably armed.
1(A) What charges can you face for having a gun, loaded in California, and trying to save the girl?
2. You are unarmed. Fall back, call the police, watch with the rest? Charge in after calling the police and try and pull them off?"
Does anyone know the laws on this?
What would you guys have done?
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
wonder what role alcohol played
Okay. No. I get so tired of hearing that excuse from criminals and their victims. "The evil fire water made him do it." No. If we were all honest with ourselves, we would know and admit that nobody does anything when they're drunk that they don't at least consider when they're sober. The most alcohol does is maybe quieting the "Maybe I don't want to do that, maybe that would be a bad choice, maybe that would embarrass me, maybe that would get me arrested" sort of thoughts people would generally have. Plenty of people ignore that part of their thinking without needed to resort to inebriation. Being drunk has become a handy excuse people can use to get away with bringing out the worst of themselves and parading it for the world. Sometimes the worst of someone is dancing on a table, singing badly and flashing people. Sometimes the worst of someone is rape or murder. Sometimes the worst of someone is standing around doing nothing when something terrible is happening.
Did I utter the word excuse??
I didn't and I'm a bit miffed that you used my post as an excuse to start off your rant.
Alcohol does lower inhibitions. Obviously it cannot create violent intent, but it can indeed enhance the willingness to go through with it. It's a part of the context of this crime and it might be a relevant one.
An environment where minors have easy access to alcohol can be an indicator for neglect and the resulting emotional numbness or aggression that could lead to such a scene. It IS a different situation if the 10 kids who watched were seriously drunk or if they were sober, since that does affect judgment and also their own fear of possible repercussions. It makes neither situation better, so I'm not implying excuses, but it offers up context.
There's some evidence that the mass rapes that occured in Berlin and other parts of Germany by the red army at the end of WW2 were in part fuelled and made possible by alcohol that soldier drunk in order to lower their inhibitions.
So bringing up the question of alcohol has absolutely NOTHING to do with excuses and everything with trying to understand this horrible incident.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
This is not about me.
Ill repeat my questions for the 3rd time. Maybe someone can take a stab at answering them.
"(A) Tactically, what is the best way to handle a situation like this? Lets assume 2 scenarios.
1. You are armed. Legally, can you fire arbitrarily into the crowd? Or should you try and disperse them by firing into the air? These animals are, likewise, probably armed.
1(A) What charges can you face for having a gun, loaded in California, and trying to save the girl?
2. You are unarmed. Fall back, call the police, watch with the rest? Charge in after calling the police and try and pull them off?"
Does anyone know the laws on this?
What would you guys have done?
The minute you pull out a gun in this situation YOU become the criminal, despite your good intentions. The rapists will eventually be testifying against YOU in court. Even if you're Chuck Norris you cannot fight off 15 people, so you get away and call the police, that's what you do.
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"The minute you pull out a gun in this situation YOU become the criminal, despite your good intentions. The rapists will eventually be testifying against YOU in court. Even if you're Chuck Norris you cannot fight off 15 people, so you get away and call the police, that's what you do."
Ok. So you are for option 2.
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One thing I notice that you're consistent with, Wulfie - you ALWAYS make note of the race of the "animals". Why couldn't you have just described them as "gang bangers"? You just HAD to go with "hispanic gang bangers", didn't you?
I guess this shows SOME kind of growth for you - at least you didn't assume they were black, eh?
By the way, aren't you also engaging in "liberal-minded blame shifting" by blaming the victim for not being armed? When you get right down to it, aren't the people who actually raped the girl to blame?
And I realize that you think the bystanders really should have called or done something, but are you condoning charging them with a criminal act for, in essence, choosing not to get involved? Doesn't that open up a dangerous doorway, in your view? I mean, if you see someone speeding, can you be charged as an accessory if you don't turn them in?
Mind you, I think the bystanders absolutely should have jumped in or at the very least called the police. I'm just trying to figure out where you put the line between "government shouldn't get involved" and "government MUST get involved, and anybody who doesn't think so should be arrested."
And ya know how it rankles people when folks try to use things like Columbine to insist on gun control, gun bans, and the like? "One or two madmen can do so much damage..." and so on and so forth. Well, it starts to get just as old and tired to constantly hear things like "...if only she'd had a gun, this never would have happened."
Really? You yourself stated that the "gang bangers (hispanic)" were likely armed as well. Woudln't this more likely just have turned into a shootout, with more likelihood of death than rape?
As always, your reactions leave me with questions.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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"... so you get away and call the police, that's what you do."
AFTER you take pictures and video with your cell phone, of course, so you can phone them to the police.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
The solution is to educate. Properly. I'm not just talking about reading and math, I'm talking about emotional education. Fostering empathy instead of violence and hatred and disregard.
Agreed.
Simply arming people without educating them is the quickest way to up the body count. Educate them properly, and they won't even need to be armed - not that you should take away the OPTION of being armed, mind you. But as Frem so often points out, your best weapon is between your ears. Learn it, use it, live it, love it.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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"One thing I notice that you're consistent with, Wulfie - you ALWAYS make note of the race of the "animals". Why couldn't you have just described them as "gang bangers"? You just HAD to go with "hispanic gang bangers", didn't you?"
Yes. I do this because I feel that more media attention is paid to white people who commit crimes. (Duke?)
"By the way, aren't you also engaging in "liberal-minded blame shifting" by blaming the victim for not being armed?"
No, I am not. I am pointing out that the need to be armed is an absolute.
"Mind you, I think the bystanders absolutely should have jumped in or at the very least called the police. I'm just trying to figure out where you put the line between "government shouldn't get involved" and "government MUST get involved, and anybody who doesn't think so should be arrested."
Im not even close to bringing up involvement by government. My questions have been very clear and relate solely to the individual coming across this crime.
"Really? You yourself stated that the "gang bangers (hispanic)" were likely armed as well. Woudln't this more likely just have turned into a shootout, with more likelihood of death than rape?"
Well, we will never know now will we?
Let me ask you a question. Is your life so valuable, that you can sit idly by (maybe calling the police) while a little girl is gang-raped for more than 2 hours? Can you guys really live with yourselves afterwards?
I don't think I could.
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"... that you can sit idly by (maybe calling the police) ... for more than 2 hours ..."
I like the way you post that - AS IF any one of us would even hesitate calling the police. BTW - calling the police does not constitute sitting 'idly by', in that you are DOING something to end the situation
And, if the police had been called, it would not have been two hours.
Geeze Wulf - are you simple ?
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Let me ask you a question. Is your life so valuable, that you can sit idly by (maybe calling the police) while a little girl is gang-raped for more than 2 hours? Can you guys really live with yourselves afterwards?
I don't think I could.
I think that's a deeply unhealthy and unrealistic approach.
No, I would not sit idly by. But yes, I do value my life so much that I don't want to get killed on a suicide mission. That doesn't make me a bad person.
I'm dang certain that I would call the police if I suspected such a situation, but I would not go charging in unless I had reason to think that this would be met with success and/or I could rouse others to come with me and create enough of a disturbance to make a difference.
Would it make the girl feel better if she knew someone was killed or beaten to a pulp or raped alongside her because they came to help her? Maybe, I don't know. I do value my life enough to make the choice to not risk that happening to me. I don't think I'd expect other men or women to go on a suicide mission to save me, should I be in such a horrible situation. I would expect them to call the police, or do anything they could without endangering themselves.
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I mean, I understand what you are saying.
But I couldn't stand by, even after calling the police, and do nothing.
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http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/29/california.rape.victim.friend/inde
x.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
wonder what role alcohol played
Okay. No. I get so tired of hearing that excuse from criminals and their victims. "The evil fire water made him do it."
I don't think asking if, or acknowledging that alcohol was involved is excusing anything - it is merely taking all facts into consideration. Alcohol does effect behavior, particularly in teens, who tend to binge drink when they drink. It's not an excuse for the behavior - but it's still an element of the events.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
This is not about me.
Ill repeat my questions for the 3rd time. Maybe someone can take a stab at answering them.
It's about they way you express yourself, and your asinine attempts to draw nonexistent parallels.
Keep repeating your question - no one cares, since you proved you were unwilling to answer question posed to you.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ill repeat my questions for the 3rd time. Maybe someone can take a stab at answering them.
"(A) Tactically, what is the best way to handle a situation like this? Lets assume 2 scenarios.
1. You are armed. Legally, can you fire arbitrarily into the crowd? Or should you try and disperse them by firing into the air? These animals are, likewise, probably armed.
1(A) What charges can you face for having a gun, loaded in California, and trying to save the girl?
2. You are unarmed. Fall back, call the police, watch with the rest? Charge in after calling the police and try and pull them off?
What would you guys have done?
Option 3. I turn and smack you on the head and remind you about your wife and family.
I worked at a very busy, rowdy bar in college - lots of fights, especially on the weekends. On my first day the owner told me he could kick anyone's ass with one finger - then he pointed at the phone and said, "just dial 9-1-1" Being as he was an ex-hockey player and had owned the bar for years I took that as great advice. You jump in and you're part of the problem, all bets are off. Cops come along and it's night how do you now they don't end up shooting you?
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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I guess I came here hoping for better than this.
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Anyone else noticing that there is a media blackout going on with this story?
Guess they don't want you looking too close.
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"I guess I came here hoping for better than this."
So it's not enough for people to say they would be morally COMPELLED to be active and call the police.
NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo --- that's not good enough for you. You want to INCITE (btw, that's what you're here to learn - not to how better discuss, but how to better incite) people into saying --- hell YEAH ! I'll be a fucking RAMBO and DIRTY HARRY all in ONE, man ! Gimme my GUN !
BRING IT ON !!!!!
And anyone who doesn't turn into a rEaving out-of-control gun-blasting MONSTER is somehow deficient.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Deport illegal aliens. Close the border. Problem solved.
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No media blackout - it was all over the internet news.
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Silence is consent.
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Better than what? Better than Take pictures and call the police? What were you expecting? That we - as adults- should all opt to take our guns to a homecoming dance, and start shooting? 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I guess I came here hoping for better than this.
Nothing you have said can be construed to be a good answer to your own questions, and yet you criticize others for what you consider inadequate answers. Sometimes all you can hope for is to get as well as you give.
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Deport illegal aliens. Close the border. Problem solved.
Do you have any evidence that anyone involved is an illegal alien, or do you, like most of your KKK brethren, just assume that anyone brown MUST be here illegally?
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Well, Kwick, do YOU have any evidence they AREN'T?
So far, all anyone has to go on is the names of 3 of the suspects.
So no, noone knows if they are illegals or not. Don't think it really matters.
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"Well, Kwick, do YOU have any evidence they AREN'T?"
Innocent until proven guilty ?
Look it up.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Anyone else noticing that there is a media blackout going on with this story?
Guess they don't want you looking too close.
No. Since I read about it in a few places before you had started this thread.
Guess you're just not looking close enough. Or pushing your standard agenda. Maybe both.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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5. Ok, Hispanic gang bangers. We are surprised at this?
Hello Wulf,
Your capacity to offend seems to know no bounds.
Did you know that gangs were invented in Spain in 1592, and that gang rape was invented by the Spanish in 1612?
No?
Probably because it's not true.
Fix yourself, sir. Fix your assumptions.
Otherwise the world will have no use for you or any 'help' you might try to bring to it.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I, um, I actually would get involved. But that's mostly 'cause I don't have a whole lot to live for.
Wulf, you may want to examine that about yourself, you don't seem to be aware of your self-destructive tendencies, and you do have a family.
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Allow me to translate for Wulfie:
Rape is caused by the spanish language, and the only cure is lethal projectile weapons in schools.
Story, I basically agree with your analysis, my point would be this: This happened because of the unreal artificial social environment created by the public school. This doesn't happen in normal society because there are people to intervene. It's the same logic by which atrocities happen in war: everyone is (historically) a teenage boy with a gun and no law, and scared out of their wits
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You know, its telling that a few here would rather attack me, then the animals who did this.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Well, Kwick, do YOU have any evidence they AREN'T?
So far, all anyone has to go on is the names of 3 of the suspects.
So no, noone knows if they are illegals or not. Don't think it really matters.
Well, when PN starts in by insinuating that getting rid of illegals and closing the borders would end crime in this country, I'd say it DOES really matter, at least in his eyes.
So if all we have to go on are the names of 3 suspects, is that enough for you or him to make a judgment call on whether or not they're illegals? What if their names had been Finnegan, McKay, and Fitzgerald - would either of you ASSUME they were illegals then?
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You know, its telling that a few here would rather attack me, then the animals who did this.
In that order!
It's telling that you think us asking questions constitutes as "attack" on you. Guess it's a good thing we're not face to face - you might have to shoot me for attacking you! But what if I have a gun, too?
Sorry, but you're playing the bullshit "if you don't immediately agree 100% with ME, then you're 100% with THEM" game. You know, like Bush used to do. You're either with us, or you're against us. Asking questions to try to get to the bottom of things doesn't mean anyone's siding with rapists, no matter how much you might try to make that fit into your tiny little worldview inside your tiny little mind. And for the record, this is why so many people have stopped trying to talk reasonably with you - because you seem to be a bomb looking for a place to explode.
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Wulf. No. Everyone here thinks this was a bad thing. You asked a question about this, rather than asked what everyone thought about the boys who did this, so expect people to respond to THAT.
And even if they haven't answered your questions, which are loaded, unfair, and weighted to try to obtain a particular response, they have responded to statements and assumptions that were in your questions.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
5. Ok, Hispanic gang bangers. We are surprised at this?
Hello Wulf,
Your capacity to offend seems to know no bounds.
Did you know that gangs were invented in Spain in 1592, and that gang rape was invented by the Spanish in 1612?
No?
Probably because it's not true.
Fix yourself, sir. Fix your assumptions.
Otherwise the world will have no use for you or any 'help' you might try to bring to it.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
Anthony: I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize for Wulf and PN, on behalf of white people everywhere. They don't speak for the rest of us.
On the one hand, I was kind of pleased to see that Wulf has grown beyond hating people just for being black. But then I realized that he hasn't really grown - he's just found out that he can hate people for NOT being white. Who's next, Wulfie? Jews? Filipinos? Chinese? C'mon, step it up - there's a whole WORLD full of un-white people out there!
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You know, its telling that a few here would rather attack me, then the animals who did this.
Oh boo fuckin hoo. You actually did attack some of us in your initial post, and then whine because we don't want to wipe out the brownies over it.
Get a fucking clue, you chump.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Story, I basically agree with your analysis, my point would be this: This happened because of the unreal artificial social environment created by the public school. This doesn't happen in normal society because there are people to intervene. It's the same logic by which atrocities happen in war: everyone is (historically) a teenage boy with a gun and no law, and scared out of their wits
Well, as a teacher who spends every day in a High School, I just take issue with the whole "school is an evil brainwashing rape clinic" type statement.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Wulf. No. Everyone here thinks this was a bad thing. You asked a question about this, rather than asked what everyone thought about the boys who did this, so expect people to respond to THAT.
And even if they haven't answered your questions, which are loaded, unfair, and weighted to try to obtain a particular response, they have responded to statements and assumptions that were in your questions.
Yup. Byte nailed it. I haven't addressed your questions because what you've done is basically put up a "push poll", with questions weighted to ONLY give you positive feedback or make the other person look horrible in comparison. You've essentially worded things so that they basically say, "Would you kill 'em all, or are you a giant pussy?" What if the correct answer is "Neither"?
Truth is, I don't *KNOW* what I'd do in this situation. I've been in situations where I have, quite literally, blacked out with rage (actually, everything went white, but they call it a blackout), and only afterwards did I find out what happened, and only because friends who were there told me the gory details.
I think I can safely say that I *would* definitely call the police, and I defintely *would not* sit and watch for two minutes, much less for two hours. Beyond that, I can't say, but there almost certainly would be blood. I mean, hell, given what happened to that guy who kicked a stray dog that wandered into work that time, I'd hate to think what I might do to someone or some group of someones raping a little girl.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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No, Kwick.
This is about a group of (and forgive me for not being able to call them human) PREDATORS/ANIMALS/NONHUMANS, raping a girl for HOURS. While some of the same evil animals stood by and watched.
Does race have something to do with it? When I started the thread, I didn't know the ethnicity of the victim. Nor did I care.
Had it been a gang of white kids doing it to some hispanic girl, I would be just as angry.
Didn't matter tho.
This is wrong, no matter what.
But forget it.
I guess you guys only care if its a hooker screaming rape at a bunch of Duke kids.
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No, Kwick.
This is about a group of (and forgive me for not being able to call them human) PREDATORS/ANIMALS/NONHUMANS, raping a girl for HOURS. While some of the same evil animals stood by and watched.
Does race have something to do with it? When I started the thread, I didn't know the ethnicity of the victim. Nor did I care.
Had it been a gang of white kids doing it to some hispanic girl, I would be just as angry.
Didn't matter tho.
This is wrong, no matter what.
But forget it.
I guess you guys only care if its a hooker screaming rape at a bunch of Duke kids.
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"I guess you guys only care if its a hooker screaming rape at a bunch of Duke kids."
Dude
Get treatment. Obviously you are in the grip of PTSD. You identify with the helplessness of the girl, you are back in your past, and literally cannot process any other thing but your fear.
Get help before you hurt someone who just happens to be there when you finally lose it.
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
This is wrong, no matter what.
No one disputes that, you ass.
We're just bored with your slanted questioning and obvious ploys.
No one is excusing the behavior - it's despicable.
But that doesn't mean we're going to play your little game.
Quote:
I guess you guys only care if its a hooker screaming rape at a bunch of Duke kids.
Can you really be as stupid as you are coming off?
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Well, as a teacher who spends every day in a High School, I just take issue with the whole "school is an evil brainwashing rape clinic" type statement.
It's not the teachers, it's the institution. Most of you teachers are bystanders in a crap shoot, becoming more and more frustrated because of pressures that make things difficult to impossible to do your job.
Some students go to school and want to learn, they like to learn. Most students don't learn a damn thing and are more interested in doing other stuff, but aren't free to. There are certain parallels with prison inmates, and in some people, no matter what age, boredom breeds cruelty, which breeds fear in the other students. Fear becomes organized into cliques, or worst case scenario, gangs.
Add on top of the already volatile situation schools where there are additional security measures based on No Tolerance, and students' rights to privacy are regularly violated. This generates rebellion, and more guns/gang violence, and a downward spiral. A culture of fear? I would call that apt.
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Quote:No. Wulf would assume they're black, and PN would assume they're part of the British/Nazi/Jewish conspiracy.
Finnegan, McKay, and Fitzgerald - would either of you ASSUME they were illegals then?
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All gangs require gang rape of female initiates, with group sex and prostitution for female members.
Most likely mexican, maybe blacks, asians or whiles less likely since that's the demographic of CA.
1+1=2
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Well, as a teacher who spends every day in a High School, I just take issue with the whole "school is an evil brainwashing rape clinic" type statement.
So what morals did your school's Bible class teach this week?
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Story
Quote:
Well, as a teacher who spends every day in a High School, I just take issue with the whole "school is an evil brainwashing rape clinic" type statement.
Lol. Oops. Yeah, I used to teach highschool. I think that above is an opinion, but imho, pretty close to the mark. "School is an evil brainwashing rape clinic." But then I've said much worse things about the US in general, that it's a giant genocidal killing machine.
Wulf... Oh where do I start. Maybe I'll just skip it.
Mike,
I take exception to the Irishness that you have given our unnamed rapists. Since the stereotyper here is very germanic sounding, you could at least generically deflect the assault on germans ;)
Quote:
Story:
Can you really be as stupid as you are coming off?
Yes, he really can ;)
But seriously, and I quote:
Quote:
Wulf:
5. Ok, Hispanic gang bangers. We are surprised at this?
Every topic for you is race baiting and gun toting
Not everything that ever happens is a soapbox for your issues. If you didn't act like it was, people wouldn't beat you up over it.
I'm sorry, you're becoming the boy who cried Wulf.
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Quote:Wulf, you say its not about race, and then you make it all about race... again!. So pardon me if I don't take your protestations seriously.
a hooker screaming rape at a bunch of Duke kids.
But right now that's neither here nor there. I agree with Rue: you're channeling the victim's helplessness, and all you can process is fear and rage. FWIW, if I were an onlooker, I'm not sure if I'd have the presence of mind to take pix (I think that's an excellent idea) but I would call 911, and in addition I would run to fetch the nearest security guards and/ or on-campus police.
I'm sorry for your fear; if there was a way to make it better, I would.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
It's not the teachers, it's the institution. Most of you teachers are bystanders in a crap shoot, becoming more and more frustrated because of pressures that make things difficult to impossible to do your job.
Some students go to school and want to learn, they like to learn. Most students don't learn a damn thing and are more interested in doing other stuff, but aren't free to. There are certain parallels with prison inmates, and in some people, no matter what age, boredom breeds cruelty, which breeds fear in the other students. Fear becomes organized into cliques, or worst case scenario, gangs.
Add on top of the already volatile situation schools where there are additional security measures based on No Tolerance, and students' rights to privacy are regularly violated. This generates rebellion, and more guns/gang violence, and a downward spiral. A culture of fear? I would call that apt.
Haven't replied because I ain't had time, and now I see I don't have to.
Preventing the environment that causes this behavior is the key to eliminating this conduct.
Oh, and Wulf ?
The causes are different from the ones you think, when you DO think - you really do need to find a way to maintain control when your blood gets up.
My personal resolution to that problem was to consult a very good martial arts instructor not for defense training so much as teaching me to deal with that exact problem, and that DID work, so you might consider it.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike,
I take exception to the Irishness that you have given our unnamed rapists. Since the stereotyper here is very germanic sounding, you could at least generically deflect the assault on germans ;)
I take exception to that! :) There are many nations with vaguely germanic sounding language, so for once let's not deflect in the Germans. Pick the Dutch or some Scandinavian country. Everyone loves the Swedish, right? They can take a little groundless negativy...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
As a repeat of my questions above:
"Ok, I have a few questions for the people here.
(A) Tactically, what is the best way to handle a situation like this? Lets assume 2 scenarios.
1. You are armed. Legally, can you fire arbitrarily into the crowd? Or should you try and disperse them by firing into the air? These animals are, likewise, probably armed.
1(A) What charges can you face for having a gun, loaded in California, and trying to save the girl?
2. You are unarmed. Fall back, call the police, watch with the rest? Charge in after calling the police and try and pull them off?"
3. Shoot the girl.
I note for the record that shooting the girl is not the best option...but your other two options seem almost as bad.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:Actually, my first response to the posted story, which I was very seriously considering breaking my RWED silence to share, was that I'd do everything in my power to rip the balls of these bastards, even if it killed me to do it. (I have no family, I'm not afraid to die, and victimization of women really pisses me off.)
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You know, its telling that a few here would rather attack me, then the animals who did this.
But then, dear Wulfie, you started with your "liberals love rapists" bullshit, and "Hispanics are rapists" bullshit, and you made yourself a much handier target than those monsters. You aren't anywhere near their class of evil, but you're here in front of me.
In other words: quit displaying yourself as an ass, and people will quit treating you like one.
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Seriously - I can't believe any of you actually try and discuss with Wulf in a serious manner - don't you realize he's just dropping thread bombs and watching all you libruls dance?
Maybe it's boredom.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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"But then, dear Wulfie, you started with your "liberals love rapists" bullshit, and "Hispanics are rapists" bullshit, and you made yourself a much handier target than those monsters. You aren't anywhere near their class of evil, but you're here in front of me."
Wait a second.
I didn't say any of that.
The furthest I went was to say that it looked to me (IMHO), as if the news was already starting in with "these poor, misunderstood, children..its not their FAULT they raped a girl for 2 and 1/2 hours. Its the schools fault. Or their parents. Or the big bad system that made them this way.."
A theme I've seen far too many time to justify the worst actions of INDIVIDUALS.
I'm not going to lie and pretend that I understand why it seems that as a collective, certain political groups want to humanize monsters.
So, no. For the record, I did NOT say that "liberals love rapists". Just that, again, IMHO, it seems they are always the first to defend them. (Thinking of the Central Park fiasco, as another example.)
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The manner in which wulfenstar always posts on the same two issues makes me wonder if he's a sockpuppet for someone who wants to discuss them but not be known for doing so 
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Wulf, take a deep breath and put your thinking cap on.
I (and Frem, and some others) understand that you're a product of your upbringing, including past trauma with racial groups, and that left a mark on you (PTSD for sure.) Because of that, you get a fair bit of leeway from me in your postings because I "get" that you're not entirely rational about some things. But if I were to want to prevent YOUR type of behavior, which I deem as irrational, controlling, and dangerously violence-prone, how do YOU suggest I go about doing it? According to YOU, I should smack you with severe punishment and treat you like an animal.
Now, personally, I don't think that works with most people: not you, not criminals, not anybody. There are a number of studies that show that if you want to get people the act like humans you should TREAT them as humans.
Nobody is condoning or excusing rape- which you seem to imply. Where we differ is what to do about it.
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Thanks for your post, Sig.
Let me try to be clear about this.
This isn't about me, this isn't about racism, or the state of the school system.
Its about a little girl being gang-raped for 2 and 1/2 hours. While onlookers laughed or joined in.
Its about the idea that people believe the best course of action, is to call the police and then back off. NOT call the police, and then try to stop it.
Yeah, its the smart move. But how often is doing the smart thing, the same as doing the RIGHT thing.
Rarely in my opinion/experience.
An example of what some would consider a "stupid" move...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Autrey
Just because these guys are being caught, doesn't make it better.
This girl is going to spend the rest of her life with emotional scars to horrible to imagine.
As for me, I couldn't sit by (even after calling the cops and taping who was around), and let it continue. I just don't think I could live with myself afterwards.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Its about the idea that people believe the best course of action, is to call the police and then back off. NOT call the police, and then try to stop it.
So you are saying it is wrong to not go in on a suicide mission, that the people who choose not to do so are in the wrong?
Why don't you just say that as a statement instead of implying it over and over? Then people could quote your words in whatever argument they want to make for or against your statement and you could openly reply to what they have said and this discussion could go progress toward some actual communication instead of you repeating over and over that "you couldn't live with yourself" without having the guts to outright call everyone who wouldn't act like you a coward.
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That's you, Wulf. But then there's me: I'm a 55-year-old mother with a disabled adult daughter. I've involved myself in accidents and even in a nascent fight (once), but I'm not sure I would try to break up a group of teenage boys doing something so horrific ("wilding") that I would question their sanity and sobriety. Their reaction would be unpredictable, and if it were to go sour - which seems likely- I'd be quickly overwhelmed and no good to anybody, just another victim. I'd want to respond with overwhelming force and a tactical advantage.
AFA this being a product of the school system: balderdash! This kind of behavior happens in other circunstances, most famously with Kitty Genovese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese
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"So you are saying it is wrong to not go in on a suicide mission, that the people who choose not to do so are in the wrong?
Why don't you just say that as a statement instead of implying it over and over? Then people could quote your words in whatever argument they want to make for or against your statement and you could openly reply to what they have said and this discussion could go progress toward some actual communication instead of you repeating over and over that "you couldn't live with yourself" without having the guts to outright call everyone who wouldn't act like you a coward."
I guess I am incapable of expressing myself in a meaningful way towards this topic.
It is something I feel strongly about, but as often happens with me (on a personal level), when I get my "dander up" I loose coherence.
I did not mean to imply that calling the cops alone (which IS taking a positive action) somehow cowardly.
ETA: Sig, good catch with the "Kitty Genovese" link. That was very much on my mind.
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Which then reminded me of this clip:
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
It is something I feel strongly about, but as often happens with me (on a personal level), when I get my "dander up" I loose coherence.
I did not mean to imply that calling the cops alone (which IS taking a positive action) somehow cowardly.
Thank you for saying that. It clears up some things for me.
I also want to add that people who call the police but don't try to break up a violent assault probably do suffer from guilt and trauma afterwards - not necessarily because they should have gone in, but because it's tremendously difficult (or should be) to witness the suffering of another person, especially if it is a violent, immediate attack. The pain of helplessness is there either way, either physical pain when you try to intervene and become a victim yourself, or the emotional pain of choosing to stay out of it, just call the police and at least be a witness.
One is not necessarily better than the other. If you don't have the means to effectively help, it's going to be and remain a horrible, scarring situation whatever it is that you actually do.
I'm obviously not talking about people who would refrain from even calling the police.
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As a former licensed EMT we were taught to rescue and respond IF WE COULD DO SO SAFELY.
Becoming another victim HELPS NO ONE, and creates yet another drain on resources (YOU) when more help arrives.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Then don't be ANOTHER victim.
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If you are overwhelmed when you decide to get into the mix, you are another victim. Of course, you could save the future rescuers the trouble of bothering with you and shoot yourself should you find yourself in that position. Just make sure you kill yourself, since when they triage on the scene they will then pass you by, so they can go on to people who can be helped. (And that, BTW, is the cold, hard calculation first responders make on the scene.)
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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"If you are overwhelmed when you decide to get into the mix, you are another victim. Of course, you could save the future rescuers the trouble of bothering with you and shoot yourself should you find yourself in that position. Just make sure you kill yourself, since when they triage on the scene they will then pass you by, so they can go on to people who can be helped. (And that, BTW, is the cold, hard calculation first responders make on the scene.)"
And boom.
Another thread where I am asked politely (and on the sly) to go kill myself.
I need to start keeping a scorecard for this.
Its ok, Rue. Before we go thru the dance of where you say "I apologize" or "Thats not what I meant", lets just skip to the end. Ok?
I forgive you for your vehemence.
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Well, as a teacher who spends every day in a High School, I just take issue with the whole "school is an evil brainwashing rape clinic" type statement.
So what morals did your school's Bible class teach this week?
The typical Nazi Jew Alien Mason stuff.
Just for you.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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A suggestion of suicide and a threadjack comment.
Cool.
Nothing less than I would expect.
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Yes, because you are always the voice of reason. That is, when you can force your hatred and fury to subside long enough to form a semi-coherent thought. Which is almost never.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
A suggestion of suicide and a threadjack comment.
Cool.
Nothing less than I would expect.
Wulf, what would you expect here in this forum other than what it is? I've had my fair share of disagreements with people here, and usually the posts get increasingly hostile as the back & forth rages on. I have felt as you do in terms of the seeming unfairness and magnitude of the "attacks" against me, but at some point you have to ask yourself whose to blame. Not blame, per se, but isn't it just dumb to jump into a thread opinion where you're outnumbered all the time? And if you know that going in to it, then why persist and draw more out of what you object to in the first place? That is what trolls do, not that I think you are one. Conservative/traditional opinions are better suited to a place like Right Nation. You would likely be a shining star over there, but this is FFF RWED, and the "rules" are different. Here you will be challenged or mocked or ridiculed. I know about all this first hand. So go into these things knowing that and don't be so surprised when you get it back in your face. Most of "them" can be quite reasonable and engaging, but you and I won't get that "love" if we don't give it too. No matter how mad and frustrated I've gotten at times, I can't stay away from this place for too long. Where else are you going to get such insight into how people with opposing views formulate and defend their positions? And as I said before, some folks here are quite a hoot, and they force me to sometimes think in ways I never would have.
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Wulf
I would never specifically ask you to kill yourself. I do think you should go fuck yourself, though. After you get help for your serious emotional issues.
YOUR answer - as poorly thought out as it was - was well, just don't become another victim.
You are 15 to 1. Though you assume YOU are armed, going by YOUR assumption they are ALSO armed (remember this ? "These animals are, likewise, probably armed") - and you do not have ANY concrete suggetsion as to how NOT to become another victim. How NOT to be overwhelmed.
No, you just have your usual jack-off meaningless responses that only go to show how truly disturbed (ie irrational) you are.
I actually gave you a meaningful response back. I treated your intention to not be another victim seriously. Though you don't actually deserve a meaningful response back.
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Silence is consent.
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This isn't a left or right thing. (Or at last it shouldn't be).
And besides, Im no more on the "right" side, than the "left" on the political spectrum.
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"You are 15 to 1. Though you assume YOU are armed, going by YOUR assumption they are ALSO armed (remember this ? "These animals are, likewise, probably armed") - do you have ANY concrete suggetsion as to how NOT to become another victim ? How NOT to be overwhelmed ?"
Well, lets see.
My H&K holds about 15. My AR, easily 30 to the clip. If I go in with an extra clip for each... Thats still about 3 for each.
The element of surprise, combined with close quarters (harder to miss)... yeah. I think that should cover it.
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DBLE
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Silence is consent.
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Uhmmm - yeah - you are going down the street armed to the teeth like Rambo just like every day ...
... get a grip.
I have a hint for you - YOUR FANTASIES ARE NOT REALITY. They are in fact highly emotional wishes which have nothing to do with real life.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:AHEM!!!
And besides, Im no more on the "right" side, than the "left" on the political spectrum
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"Uhmmm - yeah - you are going down the street armed to the teeth like Rambo just like every day ...
... get a grip.
I have a hint for you - YOUR FANTASIES ARE NOT REALITY."
Well, I guess I should be glad you arn't the cops checking my trunk then, right? lol
Ok, enough joking around.
ETA: Rue, stop changing your responses AFTER I post mine. Its sad and pathetic to try and rewrite your own responses.
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And when they start shooting back ?
Have you not SEEN videos of people emptying their guns and not fraking getting a single shot on their target ? Do you really think you can mow down every perp and bystander and anyone else who's armed who thinks YOU are part of the problem (without hitting the rape victim, remember, that's important !) and not get some return fire ?
Really ? REALLY ? REALLY ??? Are you THAT insane ?
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Never mind. I think we all know the answer here. You would go charging in, becoming another victim, and to cover the complete insanity of your fantasy, argue some totally bullshit story about how it would all go down JUST exactly like you fantasize.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike,
I take exception to the Irishness that you have given our unnamed rapists. Since the stereotyper here is very germanic sounding, you could at least generically deflect the assault on germans ;)
I take exception to that! :) There are many nations with vaguely germanic sounding language, so for once let's not deflect in the Germans. Pick the Dutch or some Scandinavian country. Everyone loves the Swedish, right? They can take a little groundless negativy...
Agent: I think that was more aimed squarely across my bow, since DT knows I'm of German descent. And I guess I *should* make the names German-sounding, because one can make fun of one's own "race" or heritage, right?
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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I get the impression that Wulfie spends a lot of time hanging 'round the house fantasizing about various scenarios in which he gets to shoot the fuck out of blacks/mexicans/federals/libruls - depending on the fantasy. Probably all of the above in his favorite scenarios. Likely clutching his weapon while daydreaming.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Agent: I think that was more aimed squarely across my bow, since DT knows I'm of German descent. And I guess I *should* make the names German-sounding, because one can make fun of one's own "race" or heritage, right?
I don't understand that concept.
*blank German stare*
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"Have you not SEEN videos of people emptying their guns and not fraking getting a single shot on their target ? Do you really think you can mow down every perp and bystander and anyone else who's armed who thinks YOU are part of the problem (without hitting the rape victim, remember, that's important !) and not get some return fire ?
Really ? REALLY ? Are you THAT insane ?
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Never mind. I think we all know the answer here. You would go charging in, becoming another victim, and argue some totally bullshit story about how it would all go down JUST exactly like you fantasize to cover your insanity."
I take it from your responses Rue, that you've never been IN a firefight... much less even shot a weapon before.
Thats cool.
So why do you persist in saying that I (or anyone of a like mind) could not do what YOU could not do?
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"Have you not SEEN videos of people emptying their guns and not fraking getting a single shot on their target ? Do you really think you can mow down every perp and bystander and anyone else who's armed who thinks YOU are part of the problem (without hitting the rape victim, remember, that's important !) and not get some return fire ?
Really ? REALLY ? Are you THAT insane ?
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Never mind. I think we all know the answer here. You would go charging in, becoming another victim, and argue some totally bullshit story about how it would all go down JUST exactly like you fantasize to cover your insanity."
I take it from your responses Rue, that you've never been IN a firefight... much less even shot a weapon before.
Thats cool.
So why do you persist in saying that I (or anyone of a like mind) could not do what YOU could not do?
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How many firefights have YOU been in Wulf ? How many on your side ? How many on the other side ? How many shots did you fire ? How many 'enemies' did you hit ? How did those firefights turn out ?
For the record.
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Silence is consent.
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Jeeze. I got a triple post.
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"How many firefights have YOU been in Wulf ? How many on your side ? How many on the other side ? How many shots did you fire ? How many 'enemies' did you hit ? How did those firefights turn out ?
For the record."
Meet me in person, and Ill tell you.
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So - none.
Good to know that.
Any OTHER bullshit you care to spew ?
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Silence is consent.
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lol
Ok, Rue.
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