Batman Shooting

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Monday, August 13, 2012 04:15
VIEWED: 47579
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NIKI2

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:08 PM

Kiki, yes, I wonder why it is that those who are pro-gun KEEP thinking they could have done something and continue to totally ignore the fact that he was wearing bullet-proof EVERYTHING. There must be something going on there in their minds...I wonder what it is? I wonder if it's tied to the gun mentality? I can't figure it out.

No, I didn't run into the same reporting you did...maybe because I don't watch network news? All I got was the first one you mentioned, and yes, they mentioned he was in the process of quitting the program, but mostly talk about how smart he was and how far he'd gotten. Interesting.

Yeah, well, Mike, we all know...well, those of us with half a BRAIN know...about Drudge and Breitbart. Nobody expected otherwise, tho' I'm sure "some" people would have an excuse or say it wasn't important or something. Eh.

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:17 PM

"maybe because I don't watch network news"

I didn't WATCH it per se - I was doing housework and listening to the TV. So, being that I had a lot to do, I got the LP version of the news 'reporting' as it un- I was going to say unfolded but it was more like unraveled.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

HKCAVALIER

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:

Until our culture stops perceiving the mentally ill as some kind of sideshow, something shameful, something to be shunned, we'll never be able to help people like James Holmes (Even among us here, I'm sure there are several of you who want nothing to do with helping him).
The state of the mental health system in America is apalling, not just in terms of funding and the like, but, more broadly and crucially, in terms of culture.

Whatchu goin' do 'bout it, Willis??

Hey Wish,

Do you ever try to understand what people are talking about before you go off on them? Do you even imagine that you might misunderstand what someone writes online? You have a violent imagination and you seem more than happy to share it with us all at the slightest--and I mean slightest--provocation. You were, of course, one of the people on my mind when I wrote my last post. I sincerely hope that you're a decent, kind-hearted person in real life and that you save all your vitriol for the internet.

Quote:
Want people to turn in people who SUSPECT others of being crazy??

No. You just pulled that out of your--ahem, thin air. Did it feel good?

Quote:
Mandatory group hugs every five minutes? Sing gospel while the mentals shoot at you?

Do you even conceive of me as a person, that you would talk to me like this?

Quote:
Once again, forest for the trees. What is actionable, vs what is moraly correct.

What are you talking about now?

Quote:
Unless we focus on fixing what the hell goes wrong with the brain chemically, CAN'T DO NOTHIN, CAN'T FIX NOTHIN'. "Group huggies" and "kumbaya moments" DON'T FIX WHAT'S BROKE. Don't even help for more more than a few minutes, if that....

I was talking about our alienated culture. Our culture that can't even tolerate people being kind to one another without logging our contempt. What goes wrong with the chemistry? Well, the chemistry of male children goes wrong when their lacrimal systems are all but shut down. It's important for humans to cry when the body prompts us to tears. As I suggested in another thread: if a culture were to make a taboo of urination, we would all see how that could lead to serious physical and mental problems. But we in this culture think nothing of telling boys (and girls) to STOP CRYING, YA BABY!

I was in no way implying that hugs and kumbaya were going to fix a damn thing. I was speaking to the pervasive contempt in our culture for healing, for vulnerability and "neediness," exemplified by folks who scoff at people who reach out to other human beings for help and support. If we deride such things when they are as trivial as a group hug, why should anyone be surprised when people with real, deep-rooted problems never seek help until they've gotten to the point when killing a hundred or so people looks like a good idea? I was talking about a need for our culture to evolve a little, to recognize that fucking up children's natural emotional functioning has devastating effects on the culture as a whole. I'd like us to shoot for something higher than "better than the Taliban."

Quote:
Do I blame people for being crazy, NO. But I gotta hold them as accountable as everyone else until a better way comes along, otherwise all that's left is anarchy.

Yeah, and I was talking about how deeply-rooted our resistance is to create that better way. I was suggesting that your malicious relish in the suffering of others--even mass murders--is part of the problem.

Quote:
I WILL NEVER MAKE EXCUSES FOR PEOPLE THAT HURT OTHER PEOPLE WITH IMPUNITY. EVER. YOU CAN'T STICK TO THAT ONE VERY SIMPLE DAMN RULE, YOU GET THE LOONEY BIN OR LETHAL INJECTION.
Makes that simple. And NO, I don't wanna help his ass, those people in that theater coulda just as easily been MY people.

And what yo

NIKI2

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:19 PM

Kiki: Ah, I get it now. That's a good way to use the TV as radio, and I do it every day while I'm sitting in my recliner working on plants or Occupy signs. One actually rarely has to WATCH TV, especially when it comes to the news...it works better as radio, I have found! I can see where you picked up on what you did, since not focusing on the visual would likely enhance your understanding of the audio. On what stations did you encounter this, if I might ask? Just curious.

I've noticed I pick up on stuff that seems to slide by when I listen rather than pay attention and watch. Something about that, I'm not sure what, but I've felt I picked up on vocal inflections that I might well have missed if watching, with all the visuals and pretty people and, of course, those damned things they stick on the screen all the time to promo something or the scrolling bar on the news. Bah.

Cav, that was beautiful, and Wish's reaction was a perfect illustration of what we hear all the time and read on the internet daily. It seems to be that way with so many people: a blind anger/hatred at the perpetrator and rejection of any compassion. It's simplistic, and people reach for the simple answers far too often. There's nothing I could say that's better than how beautifully you put it, so I'll shut up now. ;o)

CAVETROLL

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Oh, btw, the vest he wore was armored. There goes your ASSumption of an easy body shot.

http://minx.cc/?post=331266

Quote:

...Here's a pdf of a receipt for some of the equipment the shooter purchased. One of the items is called the "Blackhawk Urban Assault Vest". Here's what it looks like:

That's not a bulletproof vest. A clue can be found in the big green open spot in the middle of it. Some would call that "center mass"...

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.newyork1.vi
p.townnews.com%2Fstltoday.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2Fd%2F88%2Fd886da6e-d2dd-11e1-a574-0019bb30f31a%2F500a1767ec2b1.pdf.pdf&docid=ad0710d0822d9d3026cf3364b6ff38be&a=bi&pagenumber=1&w=560

A 2 minute search would have discovered this. Supporting evidence delivered. Unless you have some evidence that negates this, I'll have my apology now.

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

CAVETROLL

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"When I worked in mental health ..."

You were what ... mopping floors?

I was a physical intervention trainer. About half of my time was assigned to direct care on high risk wards. Forensic mostly, adult long term care and in at least one really scary case, adolescent and juvenile.

What's your mental health experience? Patient?

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

CAVETROLL

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
One more observation - did you all find the spin on the reporting to be, well, head spinning?

Over a couple of hours the description of Holmes went from being a brilliant former PhD candidate in neuroscience to being a (soto voce graduate school) DROPOUT. Two reporters that I heard claimed it was an ego thing, yanno, he peaked in high school and his ego couldn't take the real world. Thank you doctor reporters for your professional diagnoses. Reporting skewed from 'no time for shock, no time to think, no time to mourn let's whore family members to warp-speed celebrate the LIFE of the bodies not yet cold!' to breathless rehashing by people who survived to grave and serious posturing.

It was the internal schism of infotainment for all to see. How can we pitch this event for maximal titillation of our viewing audience and keep on flogging it for gain? It was all their cheap and tawdry wares on display.

The best thing that could have happened is that the judge sealed the court records. The media machine will hopefully starve and move onto easier prey.

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

NIKI2

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:38 PM

Right. I get that you read Ace of Spades HQ and slurp up everything they write, but you don't KNOW what he was wearing any more than they do. All the news has reported was "body armor". You can't know if that receipt was for all the things he got, and even if it was only that one vest, the odds of hitting him anywhere vital, in a smoke-filled room with people screaming and scrambling, is a very poor argument.

In my opinion, anyone who went to the effort of protecting himself with ballistic helmet, a ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throat protector, a groin protector, AND tactical gloves wouldn't leave himself open at the most vulnerable area with a vest like that. I mean, he protects his HANDS, throat and crotch, but leaves all that open?? Even Ace writes "Now it's possible the shooter wore that vest over a bulletproof vest..." tho' of course they doubt it. And their additional scenario is straight out of Rambo:

Quote:
What's more likely (read damned near guaranteed) to happen is that the assailant will be forced to focus his attention on the "victim" that's unexpectedly shooting back at him and away from other potential targets. By choosing to voluntarily place himself at heightened risk, the armed citizen buys time for the unarmed to flee to safety.

Heroes, all!

Of course, the entire message is to drill home "They're now shamelessly using the shootings in Aurora to try to convince you that concealed carry is a bad thing. Don't believe them." Even if the NRA has scared you guys so badly you actually BELIEVE something will be done (or even TRY to be done) about assault rifles or high-volume mags (the ONLY things anyone has proposed or that would ever have a chance of passing), the NRA themselves know it's laughable.

I love

Quote:
there's the head shot. If there's any lesson to take from this incident in regards to concealed carry, it's that a CCW holder can't spend too much time at the range.

Yes, of course, a shooter somewhere in a huge theater filled with smoke and terrified people would easily have been able to pull off a head shot on a moving guy wearing a gas mask. I'm sure Sarah Palin would believe it, you betcha!

We get it; gun bunnies are convinced someone carrying a gun could have somehow "solved" any shooting anywhere by anyone, but nobody can know whether that would be true or not. It's more the insistence of people like you that they COULD have got him in some kind of Rambo-like action that fascinates me. There's something to it, but I can't quite figure out what. Either that you think carrying a gun makes you a potential hero, or invincible, or SOMETHING, but I'm not interested enough to try and figure it out. It's just weird to me, this obsession that if everyone carried guns, any situation could be solved...

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
So, we have the following opinions,

Guns kill people. (In which case, all of my guns are defective.) Cars kill even more people, every single day. Ted Kennedy's car killed a person. I guess we should outlaw cars. Can't trust 'em. They do things of their own volition.

SWEET JAYSUS SHUT UP!!!! That's it for me, I cant read the rest of your post. If I see this moronic fucking NRA soundbite trotted out once more, I will go postal myself. You realise its the stupist statement ever. See Jason Alexander's response a couple of posts up which you clearly didn't read. And try to be original next time.

KWICKO

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
One more observation - did you all find the spin on the reporting to be, well, head spinning?

Over a couple of hours the description of Holmes went from being a brilliant former PhD candidate in neuroscience to being a (soto voce graduate school) DROPOUT. Two reporters that I heard claimed it was an ego thing, yanno, he peaked in high school and his ego couldn't take the real world. Thank you doctor reporters for your professional diagnoses. Reporting skewed from 'no time for shock, no time to think, no time to mourn let's whore family members to warp-speed celebrate the LIFE of the bodies not yet cold!' to breathless rehashing by people who survived to grave and serious posturing.

It was the internal schism of infotainment for all to see. How can we pitch this event for maximal titillation of our viewing audience and keep on flogging it for gain? It was all their cheap and tawdry wares on display.

The best thing that could have happened is that the judge sealed the court records. The media machine will hopefully starve and move onto easier prey.

Wait a sec - you're arguing for LESS transparency and openness in a case dealing with lots of guns and lots of shooting victims?

Huh.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:24 PM

physical intervention trainer - 'burly orderly'. Got it.

And THANKS for your 'expert' psychological observations.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Wish

Many years go I knew a young man who was probably the smartest person I'll ever meet in my life. After losing track of him, one day he suddenly showed up literally at my door - pale, extremely thin, shambling, mud on the back of his clothes like he'd been sleeping on the dirt, pupils fully dilated, deep in some silent internal conversation with himself, and off-topic - though not overtly 'crazy' - when he did speak with me. A few months later he committed suicide.

James Holmes' demeanor was remarkably similar, and I don't think you can fake pale skin and dilated pupils. While I think we need to wait for the complete diagnosis, I think it's rather premature to write off a psychotic break and put this all to fakery - don't you?

Also, FWIW, why don't you want to 'help his ass'? Is it too expensive for your tastes? Does that create a society too focused on people and not enough on business? Do you just want revenge, and, being too chicken to get a gun and blow him away yourself, you're content to let the machinery of society grind him to bits for you? And ready to watch with the satisfaction of one who's just had a tasty meal?

Wish is not the most empathic person ever. She wanted to torture drug affected mothers in a recent thread.

That being said, I guess there is a line that you cross, sad as it may be, whether you are mentally unstable or not, that means being away from others, maybe forever, is in order.

I do find it sad. This person was clearly brilliant, and there could have been a different outcome all round if some intervention had taken place. Maybe we will never know.

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:02 PM

I have little doubt that Holmes will now have to be isolated from people. I find that sad.

I find the loss of life sad.

I find our society of disposable people sad.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

CAVETROLL

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
physical intervention trainer - 'burly orderly'. Got it.

And THANKS for your 'expert' psychological observations.

And THANK YOU for the lack of refutation of ANY of what I said. And the ad hominem attacks. The PDF link is to the sales receipt that the vendor posted. You seem to have missed the day in debate class when they covered the fact that screeching like a howler monkey was not rebuttal. Thank God you were there the day they covered flinging poo.

"Burly orderly", yes. But for the record I also wrote the training manual that was used statewide for physical intervention, escalation and documentation. Additionally I was one of 3 people in my department that had to review all use of physical, mechanical or medical intervention.

So, how long were you a patient?

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

CAVETROLL

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
So, we have the following opinions,

Guns kill people. (In which case, all of my guns are defective.) Cars kill even more people, every single day. Ted Kennedy's car killed a person. I guess we should outlaw cars. Can't trust 'em. They do things of their own volition.

SWEET JAYSUS SHUT UP!!!! That's it for me, I cant read the rest of your post. If I see this moronic fucking NRA soundbite trotted out once more, I will go postal myself. You realise its the stupist statement ever. See Jason Alexander's response a couple of posts up which you clearly didn't read. And try to be original next time.

Do inanimate objects in your little world spring to life and act on their own? You must be doing some really good drugs.

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

NIKI2

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:24 PM

Magons, we never will know. As to the Troll..I read about as far as you did, and am equally sick of that damned parrotted talking point. I guess gunbunnies don't realize how totally irrelevant it is, given they keep right on saying it. The fact that either of us even got THAT far is probably a negative statement on both of our self-control in even bothering to READ what we should have known was coming...

And yes, I'm immeasurably saddened by the loss of a brilliant mind, too. It seems, from what one hears, that the nice, intelligent, achievers are either the victims or those who have slaughtered in dramatic style. When you hear about victims, more often than not it seems they had a lot to contribute and were snuffed out by gangs or ancillary to gang attacks, etc., and the worst multiple- or serial-killers seem to be proven to be of high intelligence as well, and sometimes over-achievers to boot. Interesting, that. And yes, I realize the norm is for people to speak of victims positively, but often their grades, accomplishments, etc., show the rosy descriptions of them are at least partly right.

Maybe it means being of higher-than-normal intelligence and achievement isn't especially healthy these days, eh? ;o)

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:26 PM

No supporter of gun control/restrictions has ever, ever made that claim, despite the fact that NRA drones continue to trot out that ridiculous line in refutation.

Try and make a decent argument without the sound bites. I dare you.

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:46 PM

"And THANK YOU for the lack of refutation of ANY of what I said."

Actually, I did post a refutation. And the same ideas were posted by several others. You had all sorts of opportunities to read those ideas. It looks like you can't read. I'm sorry for you that you can't read.

BTW, physical intervention training stresses DE-ESCALATION as the first response. I see you failed to get that concept. Or are too personally unstable to practice it. B/c all you seem to be able to conceptualize is "physical intervention, escalation and documentation." ie burly orderly

Oh, and to put it out there, I have not only never been hospitalized for anything at all, I have never been treated for psychological issues, and have never been diagnosed with them. You, I'm no so sure about. You seem to have literacy, attention and anger issues. You might want to get help with those.

And, as fun as it's been provoking you, I have more impotant things to do.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Oh, and to put it out there, I have not only never been hospitalized for anything at all, I have never been treated for psychological issues, and have never been diagnosed with them.

Not even multiple personality disorder?

SIGNYM

Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:56 AM

Quote:
I was a physical intervention trainer. About half of my time was assigned to direct care on high risk wards. Forensic mostly, adult long term care and in at least one really scary case, adolescent and juvenile.

Hey, I know where CAVETROLL worked!

Quote:
Abuse of Brain Injured Americans Scandalizes U.S.
By David Armstrong - Jul 24, 2012 12:15 PM PT

...Staffers at his new home held him down and punched him in the face and groin, Price said. When Alopaeus’s efforts to transfer him stalled, Price said his desperation led him to a step aimed at speeding his release. He swallowed five fish hooks and 22 AA batteries he’d picked up during a patient outing at Wal-Mart. After emergency surgery to remove the objects, he was allowed to transfer to another facility.

Residents at the Florida Institute have often been abused, neglected and confined, according to 20 current and former patients and their family members, criminal charges, civil complaints and advocates for the disabled.

...On its website, the company calls itself a leader in brain- injury rehabilitation. In past statements it has said it vends “extremely high quality care to very difficult clients” aimed at returning them to their homes, doesn’t use seclusion and has “zero tolerance” for resident abuse.

Elbow Shots

Hardee County prosecutors have charged two FINR staffers with abusing Danny Silva, a 21-year-old autistic patient. Video of the alleged crime shows two large men flanking a smaller figure on a sofa as they punch, elbow and slap him at least 30 times. The blows often come after moans from the man in the middle, which appear to be making it hard for his assailants to hear the TV.

“Shut up, man,” they say in the video, taped by a FINR staffer, according to police. “You are getting on my damn nerves,” one of the hitters tells the smaller man between two elbow shots. A woman in nurse’s clothes shows up in the video to give the alleged victim his medicine.

... Employee McKinley Scott pulled autistic patient Gabriel Allen up from his seat and threw him to the ground last December in a second case, prosecutors say. A video in the case shows a man identified as Scott pushing Allen away from him on a couch, standing him up, kicking his legs out from under him and leaving him curled up on the floor next to a blinking Christmas tree. Scott, 48, has pleaded not guilty to an abuse charge. His lawyer didn’t return calls.

Yep, I know where YOU'RE coming from, dude!

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:11 AM

This despicable shooter was more sane than insane. Death penalty is too merciful for him. He should be locked up for life in a small isolation cell, forced to watch The Glee Movie 23 hours a day in perpetuity.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:

Do inanimate objects in your little world spring to life and act on their own? You must be doing some really good drugs.

What drugs are you on, then? You've claimed that those same "inanimate objects" jumped up and killed an American agent in Arizona.

WISHIMAY

Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Wish is not the most empathic person ever. She wanted to torture drug affected mothers in a recent thread.

It seems to me there are quite a few here who like to pretend they are saints.
WHAT... A.... JOKE.

Did you people ever stop to think that maybe it's YOUR fault things are sooo messed up? I'm sick of crackers handing out "Get outta trouble FREE" cards to every Schmuck and Sally-sob-story out there. Ya been HAD and ya too busy getting "huggy" to even notice... Put up a picture of murderer hugging a fluffy bunny and I GAR_ON_TEE half the suckers in here would just melt...
Or you could just let Niki TALK him ta death...

Talk about scrollin' through stuff, geez.

The general public will never hold themselves accountable. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.
If you can't handle hurting the "poor wittle murderers' and druggies and child abusers feeewings" you prolly outta step aside and let someone with the balls do it for ya.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:29 AM

More of the same from Wish: bitching about posts that are too long. Discussion avoidance step 2 yet again! Step 3 can't be far away...

Hey Wish, maybe the problem is your short attention span. You ever think about maybe **holding yourself accountable** for that? Trying to get your brain to focus?

Nope. Too busy bitching about and blaming other people. Yada yada yada.

Carry on.

1KIKI

Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:37 AM

Troll

I have to say this new site puzzles me. I'm beginning to notice that sometimes posts don't show up for hours while later posts show up right away. I didn't see your post w/ the receipt until I went to your 'name', and clicked on your posts one by each.

So yes, you're right - I didn't respond to that one. I apologize.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Wish is not the most empathic person ever. She wanted to torture drug affected mothers in a recent thread.

It seems to me there are quite a few here who like to pretend they are saints.
WHAT... A.... JOKE.

Did you people ever stop to think that maybe it's YOUR fault things are sooo messed up? I'm sick of crackers handing out "Get outta trouble FREE" cards to every Schmuck and Sally-sob-story out there. Ya been HAD and ya too busy getting "huggy" to even notice... Put up a picture of murderer hugging a fluffy bunny and I GAR_ON_TEE half the suckers in here would just melt...
Or you could just let Niki TALK him ta death... Talk about scrollin' through stuff, geez.

The general public will never hold themselves accountable. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.
If you can't handle hurting the "poor wittle murderers' and druggies and child abusers feeewings" you prolly outta step aside and let someone with the balls do it for ya.

Hello,

I don't think people are deserving of ridicule merely because they do not condone torture or revenge killings. There are plenty of places on this planet where both torture and murder are practiced as a matter of freely acknowledged and accepted public policy, but I'm not sure any of us would want to live there.

Building a better society does not begin with discarding humanity or ridiculing those who want to behave humanely.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

Did you people ever stop to think that maybe it's YOUR fault things are sooo messed up? I'm sick of crackers handing out "Get outta trouble FREE" cards to every Schmuck and Sally-sob-story out there. Ya been HAD and ya too busy getting "huggy" to even notice... Put up a picture of murderer hugging a fluffy bunny and I GAR_ON_TEE half the suckers in here would just melt...
Or you could just let Niki TALK him ta death... Talk about scrollin' through stuff, geez.

The general public will never hold themselves accountable. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.
If you can't handle hurting the "poor wittle murderers' and druggies and child abusers feeewings" you prolly outta step aside and let someone with the balls do it for ya.

Hello,

I don't think people are deserving of ridicule merely because they do not condone torture or revenge killings. There are plenty of places on this planet where both torture and murder are practiced as a matter of freely acknowledged and accepted public policy, but I'm not sure any of us would want to live there.

Building a better society does not begin with discarding humanity or ridiculing those who want to behave humanely.

--Anthony

Right, thanks Anthony, you've said it well.

Wish, I find your world view abhorent, but you are welcome to it. If you start having any decision making capacity in my neck of the woods, which will be unlikely, I'd be opposing your every move.

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:36 AM

Quote:
"The only amendment left in the Constitution is the Second one. If you take away the right to due process, habeas corpus, the prohibition against cruel and unusual treatment because they now torture, if they can take all these away, they can take away the guns. Probably won't be much longer. They certainly have a Police State, it's in place, and we no longer have any rights. They can bring any kind of charges against anybody at any time. Or they can simply dissappear them. There's no longer any protection from being thrown in a dungeon for the rest of your life, without ever being told why you're there, hahaha, much less a court being told, or a jury, or any evidence presented. So, as far as I can tell, the Constitution no longer exists for any constraints on the power of government, and the page has turned, hahaha. Or they'll kill you with a drone."
-Dr Paul Craig Roberts PhD, Assistant Secretary of the US Department of the Treasury, Infowars Radio, 25 July 2012

Aurora Shooting: Panic Prompts Surge 300% In Gun Sales After Colo. Movie Theater Massacre
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/aurora-shooting-panic-pro_n_1
703402.html

Quote:
“The tragedy that played out in an Aurora movie theater Friday was ironically paralleled as a classroom learning experience in a medical school in Parker the same day. Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine is in the middle of holding specialized classes in disaster life support for 150 second-year medical students. Along with response to natural disasters like hurricanes and floods and terrorist attacks, one of the scenarios being used to train the students is how to respond if a shooter fires at people in a movie theater and also uses a bomb in the attack. 'The irony is amazing, just amazing,' said Rocky Vista Dean Dr. Bruce Dubin. The shootings in Aurora were incorporated into the teaching Friday, Dubin said."
-Nancy Lofholm, Denver Post, Real life shooting imitates training exercise at Parker medical school, 07/21/2012
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21126462/real-life-shooting-imitates
-training-exercise-at-parker

A "drill" at the exact same location and exact same time of the exct same "terror" attack...ust like 9/11 and 7/7...

Did a cop go off script by failing to shoot and kill the alleged shooter/patsy, thus leaving the door open to asking him WHAT REALLY HAPPENED in court? What has the media not IDENTIFIED and interviewed this brave cop, about how he arrested an alleged mass murderer carrying 4 guns and in full body armor (i.e. dressed as a COP), without so much as giving him a black eye. Or is this exactly what the script required, A DIVERSIONARY TACTIC, an arrest of an innocent patsy, drugged up on mind control as part of his JOB AT THE PENTAGON for creating Super soldiers? Why no interviews of all the players in the "drill" curring in the same town of a "terrorist shooting" in a movie theater?

The Joker has green hair you morons. This professor worked at McDonalds, when he wasn't employed by the Pentagon on projects to brainwash Super Soldiers by mind control. Apparently he went off script and dyed his hair red not green, but that didn't stop the disinfobabes from calling him The Joker. Where's the AUDIOTAPE RECORDINGS from the arrest where he allegedly called himself a joker?

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34659

Quote:
"I didn't shoot nobody no Sir! I'm just a patsy!"
-Lee Harvey Oswald, shot and killed by a jewish mobster inside the same Dallas Police Dept that President JFK Sr was shot and killed in front of

"Any prosecutor can convict a guilty

NIKI2

Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:07 PM

Thank you, too, Anthony. I must not pay careful enough attention around here, obviously. I never noticed quite such a spiteful, hateful side of Wish before, someone whom I have always respected. No biggie, just found it interesting. Unfortunately, Wish reflects the mentality of far too many, and they don't realize even slightly that their attitude is far more deleterious to the situation than any other, more compassionate one. The cost to society--yes, taxpayer dollars again--in catching, trying and incarcerating the kind of people Wish wants to do all those things to and rants on about what society actually does with them (absolutely none of which is true, merely included for anger/shock value) is far, FAR more than it would otherwise be if we dealt with the issue like a rational society rather thn immediately enmeshing ourselves in our hatred and desire for some kind of revenge. They'll never get it, any more than the gunbunnies or climate change deniers will. Quite often they're the same individuals, actually, which is telling, as well. Lack of ability to think cohesively in response to a situation and reliance on visceral, emotional knee-jerk hatred. Huh.

As a side note; Oh, pish tosh--like I could hold a CANDLE to PN on my best day! ;o)

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I was talking about our alienated culture. Our culture that can't even tolerate people being kind to one another without logging our contempt. What goes wrong with the chemistry? Well, the chemistry of male children goes wrong when their lacrimal systems are all but shut down. It's important for humans to cry when the body prompts us to tears. As I suggested in another thread: if a culture were to make a taboo of urination, we would all see how that could lead to serious physical and mental problems. But we in this culture think nothing of telling boys (and girls) to STOP CRYING, YA BABY!

I was in no way implying that hugs and kumbaya were going to fix a damn thing. I was speaking to the pervasive contempt in our culture for healing, for vulnerability and "neediness," exemplified by folks who scoff at people who reach out to other human beings for help and support. If we deride such things when they are as trivial as a group hug, why should anyone be surprised when people with real, deep-rooted problems never seek help until they've gotten to the point when killing a hundred or so people looks like a good idea? I was talking about a need for our culture to evolve a little, to recognize that fucking up children's natural emotional functioning has devastating effects on the culture as a whole. I'd like us to shoot for something higher than "better than the Taliban."

This.
EXACTLY, this.

You build a culture around crushing out empathy, rewarding sociopathy, to the point where even those not afflicted EMULATE that behavior in order to be "successful" (because that *IS* what our society REWARDS), while casting scorn and derision upon empathy, kindness, altruism - to the degree where children self-condition for it and it becomes so calcified in their personality they might as well HAVE been born sociopaths (see also: Bruce Perry - How States Become Traits) compound it by the spread of this message in all our media, entertainment, even our (generally twisted) humor...

I tellya folk, the real MIRACLE here is that this doesn't happen EVERY FUCKING DAY, the resilience of human spirit, the ability of those hard-wired natural drives to overcome that conditioning, is the one thing that gives me any hope at all, seeing people with decades of this conditioning STILL able to function, STILL able to empathize, that folks, is the freakin miracle here, that such events as these are as rare as they happen to be.

-Frem

CAVETROLL

Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Troll

I have to say this new site puzzles me. I'm beginning to notice that sometimes posts don't show up for hours while later posts show up right away. I didn't see your post w/ the receipt until I went to your 'name', and clicked on your posts one by each.

So yes, you're right - I didn't respond to that one. I apologize.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

Apology accepted.

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

NIKI2

Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:02 PM

Just a thought, Wish. You don't seem to grasp that it's possible to DO whatever is necessary to protect people from maniacs with guns, but at the same time have compassion for them as human beings. No hugs, no kumbaya, do whatever we have to do to keep society safe from them, but not dehumanize them. Hate and dehumanization do nothing to improve society's sanity.

The other thing is that it costs a LOT more to clean up after a mess such as Aurora than it does to put some money and effort into recognizing people with problems and trying to deal with them in a way that is other than tossing them away...unless you're advocating killing any and all who MIGHT turn out to be like this guy. The mentally-disabled can be helped, and many of us can go on to be CONTRIBUTING members of society--I was, and if I'd had the knowledge, treatment and meds earlier, I would still be today. That is true of the vast majority of us. Locking us up because of what we "might" do, or just forcing meds down our throats, will only create further drain on society, as well as making more of what happened in Aurora happen.

Also, your view seems to be incredibly simplistic and weird to me. Do you have any idea what the percentage of successful "not guilty by reason of insanity" please there are? Very, very, VERY few, look it up. Rarely does anyone get off by virtue of their mental defects. You really think a photo of a murderer hugging a bunny would melt ANYONE? THAT is truly insane to me!

Just the example of what's happening to Penn State in the aftermath of discovering the child abuse should show you that nobody "mollycoddles" child abusers...where you get your views escapes me, you seem to see all of society as laying down and rolling over for perpetrators, when in actuality it's precisely the opposite!

How you get your view that the "general public" is accountable for things like Aurora defeats me. It's police who put people in jail, juries and judges who put them in prison and put them to death, and the "general public's" outrage about these atrocities is by far less "huggy" than otherwise. You seem to see everyone but yourself as a schmuck, which I find strange.

Perps are let out of prison because of prison overcrowding far more than because of any "hugginess"...so what's your answer? Build more prisons on the taxpayer's dollar and let the taxpayer pay for the upkeep of criminals for the rest of their lives? More for-profit prisons? What's YOUR solution?

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:26 PM

There was a recent "Through the Wormhole" about the nature of evil and whether it could be eliminated, which I just watched. It was quite fascinating. One neuroscientist was working on experiments in stimulating the region of the brain believed to be the center of altruism, making test subjects more willing to compromise. Another was developing a "frontal lobe gym" to train people to be better at impulse control through the use of biofeedback on what their brains were doing. A third scientist had studied the brains of psychopaths, found a distinct pattern in their anatomy, and was speculating on whether these people were always criminals and killers until he came to find out he, himself, had the very same brain anatomy. Apparently he is very driven and can be manipulative, but he isn't a killer because he was raised in a good environment. He also believes that there might be ways to turn the inactive areas of the brain on again. It was all very, very interesting. Even more interesting in the face of this event. This guy was a neuroscience student. I wonder how many of his classmates finished reeling from the shock and then thought, "Wow, wonder what his brain activity is like."
(This was also an extremely weird and terrible way for me to find out that there's a very prestigious neuroscience program in my home state, but I might have to look into it.)

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

CAVETROLL

Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:32 PM

I was going to respond regarding my experiences in the mental health field. But I figured, why should I bother? Any of you who are using that comment as an angle to attack me aren't interested. To those who are interested in attacking, screw all of you.

The courts, all the way to SCOTUS have handed down decisions that state that the police have no duty to protect you from harm. DOJs own statistics show that at BEST, police response to an assault call is 5 minutes. What can happen to you in 5 minutes?

If the police aren't obliged to protect you, then who are you going to rely on?

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

KWICKO

Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
I was going to respond regarding my experiences in the mental health field. But I figured, why should I bother? Any of you who are using that comment as an angle to attack me aren't interested. To those who are interested in attacking, screw all of you.

Oh boo-freaking-hoo, ya big baby.

Funny that you'd be whining so much about being "attacked" given what you've chosen for your signature here.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

KWICKO

Thursday, July 26, 2012 5:53 PM

So far in the media, I've heard people try to blame the idea of wearing masks/costumes to movies, and now I even heard someone wondering if maybe this guy should have been able to amass such an arsenal while living on student loans and grants, which makes me wonder how long it will be before the financial aid for students is under attack for this.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

CAVETROLL

Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:54 PM

Quote:

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and
force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of
either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under
threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two
categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact
through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social
interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the
personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use
reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your
threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on
equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal
footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal
footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun
removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a
potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad
force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more
civilized if all guns were removed from society. But, a firearm makes
it easier for an armed mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only
true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by
choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a
mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the
young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a
civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a
successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force
monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that
otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in
several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the
physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute
lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come
out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes
lethal force easier, works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not
the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an
octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply would
not work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and
easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but
because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I
cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid,
but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions
of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of
those who would do so by force. It removes force from the
equation. And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act !!

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

NIKI2

Thursday, July 26, 2012 7:41 PM

As usual, Troll, you reflect the typical pro-gun advocate's mentality: All or nothing. Has anyone HERE said anything about doing away with guns? Some of us might like to, but we recognize the illogicality of such a wish. So what you posted is totally irrelevant, as it is a debate point against nobody.

The thing some people would like, realistically, is SOME gun restrictions, like on semi-automatic weapons, high-yield magazines, the ease with which such things are obtained, stuff like that. See if you can grasp it in big letters:

NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE AWAY ALL THE GUNS IN AMERICA. Can you understand that? Try to think of it on a nice long line. At one end is "NO GUNS", at the other is "EVERYONE CAN HAVE ANY GUN THEY WANT". There's this space in the middle, see, that's where some of us are. Care to join us?

I might have some arguments about what is stated in your quote, but it's immaterial, since nobody is arguing that we should take away people's guns...that useful little sound byte the NRA finds so excellently effective in ginning you guys up.

So if you want to post something that might have validity to the gun issue, try posting something relevant. Or not. 'Sup to you.

NIKI2

Thursday, July 26, 2012 7:43 PM

Yeah, Mike, along with all--I mean ALL--those voices out there saying this is the "wrong time" to be discussing--excuse me, POLITICIZING--the issue of guns. I actually heard one guy say it was OFFENSIVE to the American People to even talk about it "now". Gawd help my country.

NIKI2

Thursday, July 26, 2012 7:45 PM

Rose, yes, I caught that too. Fascinating, wasn't it? I LOVE "Wormhole"...when it doesn't get too esoteric for my poor old brain!

ANTHONYT

Thursday, July 26, 2012 9:44 PM

Quote:
As usual, Troll, you reflect the typical pro-gun advocate's mentality: All or nothing. Has anyone HERE said anything about doing away with guns?

Quote:
NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE AWAY ALL THE GUNS IN AMERICA. Can you understand that?

Hello,

I think someone did, a bit back in this conversation or a similar one. I'm not sure if they were an American or someone from another country. I think the latter. In any event, Niki, I suggest you try to wrap your brain around the possibility that some people do in fact feel that way but realize they can't approach such an idea square-on. The membership of the Brady campaign, amongst others, once upon a time approached the topic square-on and then realized that was a bad approach. I don't have cites. You'll either have to believe me on this or not, at your preference. The current strategy, to my mind, involves nibbling the 2nd Amendment to death. You need not agree with that, and I certainly am not in a position to provide proof. Suffice that we both agree the current political winds are not blowing in the direction of abolition. Some of us wish they would, and some of us hope they never do again.

Quote:
The thing some people would like, realistically, is SOME gun restrictions

Well, I think you'll find that there ARE some gun restrictions. But more importantly, I think you'll find that 'gun people' do not trust 'non-gun people' to know what the hell they are talking about in regards to guns. I think you'll find that 'gun people' rightfully worry that 'non-gun people' have knee-jerk reactions to guns and invoke law without any serious understanding of the subject matter. It's happened before, so don't dismiss this as a foolish worry. Non-gun people frequently put ink to paper with nothing but myth and innuendo in their brans, and they are generally NOT interested in the points of view or arguments of gun-people.

Quote:
like on semi-automatic weapons

This is the kind of thing that makes me worry. What is it that bothers you about semi-automatic weapons that makes you believe they need to be singled out for a special level of control?

Quote:
high-yield magazines

Here's a more logical concern, though I promise you there are people who find great utility in such things and have never harmed so much as a fly.

Quote:
the ease with which such things are obtained, stuff like that.

I hear this a lot. Things are too easy to get ahold of. I haven't yet heard about the check or balance that would have prevented an aspiring doctor with no criminal history from obtaining anything he likes... unless you want to ban certain things entirely. And if you do, you can understand why law-abiding gun owners might be nervous at your desire to tinker with laws.

Quote:
Try to think of it on a nice long line. At one end is "NO GUNS", at the other is "EVERYONE CAN HAVE ANY GUN THEY WANT".

Oh, Niki, that's not the line people are talking about or arguing about. At one end of the line is 'Government Only' and at the other end is 'everybody.' There's no point of the line that says "No Guns" not even in places with severe gun control. If there was ever an honest "no guns for anyone ever" country, I might just be content to live there. But there isn't, and there won't be.

Quote:
So if you want to post something that might have validity to the gun issue, try posting something relevant. Or not. 'Sup to you.

Well, you're suggesting some kind of reasonable restrictions. What are they? I'll be glad to discuss them with you in the 'Reasonable Gun Restrictions' thread, and we can talk about how law-abiding doctorate students would be prevented from committing massacre under them.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits

RIONAEIRE

Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:08 PM

We don't know what kind of orderly Troll was, so why are we assuming ill of him, just because you disagree with his politics? That's not a fair reason to assume he's abusive to his charges. That's not fair.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:18 PM

I predict that the GOP will take this opportunity to have yet another vote on outlawing abortion.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
We don't know what kind of orderly Troll was, so why are we assuming ill of him, just because you disagree with his politics? That's not a fair reason to assume he's abusive to his charges. That's not fair.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

I didn't ever assume that Troll was an orderly. I figured from all his talk of being with the mental patients, he was a patient himself.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:34 PM

12 victims died in the Batman Massacre...what a COINCIDENCE!

Quote:

Lil Wayne Video Featured Exactly 12 Skeletons in a Theater 3 Days Prior to Batman Massacre
http://www.infowars.com/lil-wayne-video-featured-skeletons-in-a-theate
r-prior-to-batman-massacre/

Either a confession to Operation Northwoods faking deaths of CIA agents with fake funerals, or part of a ritualistic satanic “spell” they try to cast that offers the public a hidden reveal before an actual event takes place, a form of predictive programming and consent by silence.

Just like 9/11 with the Communist COUP rap band's CD label in the summer of 2001, that get the first Commie black "president" "elected":

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread673342/pg1

The Dark Knight Strikes Again founded 9/11 Truth on 10 Sept 2001
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2008/12/dark-knight-dvd-holy-batshit
-911-truth.html

BATMAN Astonishing Clues: THE BLOOD TRAIL, THE NECK WOUND, AND THE 2ND GAS MASK
There was a second gas mask found lying outside the theater that belonged to the REAL shooter. There is still no known witness-ID of Holmes in the theater. There is only the police claim that they found him, calm and allegedly "confessing" [WITHOUT ADMITTING TO THE SHOOTINGS AND ASKING TO SPEAK WITH A LAWYER], next to his car, after the shooting—or by other accounts, inside his car closest to the theater exit [45 MINUTES AFTER THE SHOOTINGS]. NO PACKAGE WAS EVER FOUND ACTUALLY MAILED TO A PSYCH PROFESSOR.
http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/batman-the-blood-trail-th
e-neck-wound-and-the-2nd-gas-mask/

"Art" at genocidal UN HQ built on slaughterhouse donated by Rockefller jew banksters

Bombshell: Leaked UN Treaty Does Ban Guns in USA signed by Obama THIS WEEK !!!!
Orwellian Double-Speak "Individual rights of STATES" (NATIONS) to start WARS without other nations is OK !!!!!!
Only STATES (NATIONS) have a right to self defense, not individual persons !!!!!!!
"Collective rights" defined as NATIONS joining other nations to start WARS is OK
http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-un-gun-treaty-does-ban-guns/

Quote:
CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL MD RESPONDS TO THE DARK KNIGHT MOVIE MASSACRE

The senseless and horrific killings last week at a movie theater in Colorado reminded Americans that life is fragile and beautiful, and we should not take family, friends, and loved ones for granted. Our prayers go out to the injured victims and the families of those killed. As a nation we should use this terrible event to come together with the resolve to create a society that better values life.

We should also face the sober reality that government cannot protect us from all possible harm. No matter how many laws we pass, no matter how many police or federal agents we put on the streets, no matter how routinely we monitor internet communications, a determined individual or group can still cause great harm. We as individuals are responsible for our safety and the safety of our families.

Furthermore, it is the role of civil society rather than government to build a culture of responsible, peaceful, productive individuals. Government cannot mandate morality or instill hope in troubled individuals. External controls on our behavior imposed by government through laws, police, and jails usually apply only after a terrible crime has occurred.

Internal self governance, by contrast, is a much more powerful regulator of human behavior than any law. This self-governance must be developed from birth, first by parents but later also through the positive influence of relatives and adult role models. Beyond childhood, character development can occur through religious, civic, and social institutions. Ultimately, self-governance cannot be developed without an underlying foundation of morality.

Go

PIRATENEWS

Friday, July 27, 2012 1:43 AM

EXCLUSIVE: ‘Dark Knight’ shooting suspect James Holmes claims amnesia
“He claims he doesn’t know why he’s in jail,” the worker said Thursday. “He asked, ‘Why am I here?’”
www.nydailynews.com/news/national/exclusive-dark-knight-shooting-suspe
ct-james-holmes-claims-amnesia-article-1.1122289

A video of Colorado shooting suspect James Holmes, shot when he was 18, shows the slightly awkward teen speaking to a room full of people at a science camp. The video, obtained by ABC News, shows Holmes at Miramar College in San Diego ... discussing "temporal illusions."

James Holmes’ “Mentor” Admits To Mind Manipulation. John Jacobson, the person James Holmes named as his “mentor” during his science camp presentation on “temporal illusions” and “subjective experience”, can be seen in a video discussing the manipulation of a subject’s order of time perception.

At 1.58 in Jacobson says:

“… it’s possible… for us to manipulate temporal order, we have loads of power over temporal order, if events happen in the order A/B, a good psycho-physicist can have the subject experience it as B/A, this is routine…”

So the accused Batman shooter, who appeared drugged out of his mind during his first court appearance, and the District Attorney later said she had “no information” on whether Holmes was on medication in court [3], is closely associated to a boastful mind manipulator.

But this gets much more interesting…

John Jacobson now completely denies being James Holmes’ ”mentor”, in fact he outright attacks every aspect of James Holmes life [4], from Holmes’ ability to do Flash programming as an intern (who would even dream that Flash programming abilities would be grounds to condemn the academic career of an honors graduate and prestigious grant winner [5] ), to claiming Holmes’ didn’t seem to understand “any of the basic science” [6], to claiming Holmes “just had no interest” in a high school girl Jacobson introduced. [4]

Read the LA Times article below to get a real sense of the tone.

Finally, to top this story off, ABC News has been caught lying, I mean misspeaking, about what the mother Arlene Holmes originally said, the well publicized and over repeated “you have the right person” quote… Mrs. Holmes was simply referring to herself.

This strange and illogical quote was suspect from the very start, but it was repeated, wild details were added to it, but it has no basis in fact.
With all the crack reporting from organizations like ABC News, no one seems to ask the basic question, how exactly did the shooter get in through a closed fire exit door?

Are we to believe he arrive early, set the door ajar, went off to gear up, then returned later without the certainty the door would still be ajar… or perhaps we’re to imagine the shooter arriving at the closed exit door in full gear, gas mask on, not knowing if he could open the door… or perhaps he had some help? [8]

Sources:

[1] 2012.7.22 Video Of James Holmes At 18 Years Old Giving Presentation At Science Camp (Mentions His Mentor (John Jacobson) At 0.50) (ABC, youtube.com):

[2] 2010.4.10 How Can We Begin To Define Time?, John Jacobson, Chronicles 1 (Quote At 1.58) (youtube.com):

[3] 2012.7.23 James Holmes, Suspect In Colorado Shooting, Appears In Court (washingtonpost.com):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/suspect-in-color
ado-massacre-due-in-court/2012/07/23/gJQAa3oN4W_print.html
[4] 2012.7.22 Accused Movie Shooter Called A Mediocre Student Intern (John Jacobson Interviewed) (latimes.com):

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-movie-shooting-j
ames-holmes-20120722,0,2746583.story

[5] 2012.7.24 James Holmes Received $26K Grant From Bethesda Based National Institutes Of Health ($26K Stipend AND Paid Tuition For HIGHLY COMPETITIVE Neuroscience Program, One Of Six To Get Prestigious NIH Grant Money) (washington.cbslocal.com):

CHRISISALL

Friday, July 27, 2012 3:26 AM

HK should be our President, or something. He's the best voice on this site.

1KIKI

Friday, July 27, 2012 3:58 AM

"... someone from another country ..."
Australia, I think, perhaps NZ.

"... some people do in fact feel that way ... Suffice that we both agree the current political winds are not blowing in the direction of abolition. Some of us wish they would ..."
Who?

"The current strategy, to my mind, involves nibbling the 2nd Amendment to death."
In what way?

"Suffice that we both agree the current political winds are not blowing in the direction of abolition. ... and some of us hope they never do again."
Again?

"Non-gun people frequently put ink to paper with nothing but myth and innuendo in their bra(i)ns, and they are generally NOT interested in the points of view or arguments of gun-people."
And yet, police departments have major input on gun restrictions. Are they non-gun people?

These extremely vague declamations are not convincing.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

1KIKI

Friday, July 27, 2012 4:05 AM

Originally posted by RionaEire:
We don't know what kind of orderly Troll was, so why are we assuming ill of him...

Because he falsely intimated professional expertise with spree killers.

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
When I worked in mental health I worked with 2 spree killers.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

SIGNYM

Friday, July 27, 2012 4:42 AM

WISH

Quote:

It seems to me there are quite a few here who like to pretend they are saints.
WHAT... A.... JOKE.

Did you people ever stop to think that maybe it's YOUR fault things are sooo messed up? I'm sick of crackers handing out "Get outta trouble FREE" cards to every Schmuck and Sally-sob-story out there. Ya been HAD and ya too busy getting "huggy" to even notice... Put up a picture of murderer hugging a fluffy bunny and I GAR_ON_TEE half the suckers in here would just melt...
Or you could just let Niki TALK him ta death... Talk about scrollin' through stuff, geez.

The general public will never hold themselves accountable. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.
If you can't handle hurting the "poor wittle murderers' and druggies and child abusers feeewings" you prolly outta step aside and let someone with the balls do it for ya.

Didja ever notice that the nations with the most HUMANE approaches to people actually have very LOW crime and violence rates?? (I point to Europe and MOST other developed nations as examples.)

Of course not!

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, July 27, 2012 8:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"... someone from another country ..."
Australia, I think, perhaps NZ.

Geez, I must really make an impact around here. There are two of us on this thread that are not US. Myself and Peacekeeper. Peacekeeper is from UK and I am Australian.

I read Peacekeepers posts, and he did not appear to be calling for a ban on American guns, he just finds the debate a bit of a no brainer. As do I.

I do not advocate an outright ban on guns in the US because I don't think it would work given the intensity of the emotion around this issue, and the feelings re the 2nd amendment. I don't really feel like I have the right to call for any changes to gun laws, as I don't live there, but I do find the debate puzzling, coming from a society where there is not that many guns in circulation.

Guns are not bannned here either, just hard to obtain. I am happy about that, but its a different society, differnet culture, clearly.

"Non-gun people frequently put ink to paper with nothing but myth and innuendo in their bra(i)ns, and they are generally NOT interested in the points of view or arguments of gun-people."

Oh dear, that is how I see the pro gun lobby, seriously distorting stats and situations. I've seen propaganda from the NRA about my own country that is completely ludicrous.

CAVETROLL

Friday, July 27, 2012 3:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
We don't know what kind of orderly Troll was, so why are we assuming ill of him...

Because he falsely intimated professional expertise with spree killers.

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
When I worked in mental health I worked with 2 spree killers.

I worked with a total of 4 people found not guilty by reason of insanity for murder. How many have you had contact with? 2 of them were spree killers. One of the NGRI patients had killed 2 people in the hospital I worked at. Believe me when I say I took my contact with them VERY seriously.

Do you think it takes a medical degree to spot mental illness? If so, then we are well and truly fucked. Because then there's no way to stop people like the Aurora shooter.

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 27, 2012 5:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
There was a recent "Through the Wormhole" about the nature of evil and whether it could be eliminated, which I just watched. It was quite fascinating. One neuroscientist was working on experiments in stimulating the region of the brain believed to be the center of altruism, making test subjects more willing to compromise. Another was developing a "frontal lobe gym" to train people to be better at impulse control through the use of biofeedback on what their brains were doing. A third scientist had studied the brains of psychopaths, found a distinct pattern in their anatomy, and was speculating on whether these people were always criminals and killers until he came to find out he, himself, had the very same brain anatomy. Apparently he is very driven and can be manipulative, but he isn't a killer because he was raised in a good environment. He also believes that there might be ways to turn the inactive areas of the brain on again. It was all very, very interesting. Even more interesting in the face of this event. This guy was a neuroscience student. I wonder how many of his classmates finished reeling from the shock and then thought, "Wow, wonder what his brain activity is like."
(This was also an extremely weird and terrible way for me to find out that there's a very prestigious neuroscience program in my home state, but I might have to look into it.)

Phoenixrose ?
(and I really, REALLY hope this doesn't get lost in the back and forth here)

I had a bit of an interest in this kinda thing in late-middle, early-high school, and discovered something which most modern psychologists are still either in denial about, or just finally coming around to realizing.

Now, the schools that I went to, the second-chance and various deliquent traps I wound up stuck in, often for the henious crime of self-defense in open defiance of the tacitly accepted brutal pecking order more appropriate to the penal system, for a fact *did* have a higher percentage of failed sociopaths (cause successful ones are rarely detected) than the general population, but here's the ringer...

Taken in context with what that percentage of general population apparently was, there were TOO MANY, if the percentage was as large as it seemed, society simply could not function, there simply wouldn't be enough cooperation for it to work, so there had to be another factor - and indeed there was, see, the actual born-that-way sociopath is extremely, EXTREMELY rare.

What is far, far more common, is people who emulate sociopathy because that is the fastest road to "success" in our society, and children emulate those who they see as successful, who they see held up as role models or exemplars of behavior - which over time has lead generationally to our society downright glorifying this behavior, lauding it as something worthy even as they throw a few desultory bits of lip service around about how awful it is, but kids see right through that.

And so what do they do - they strive to *BE* that way, both consciously and subconsciously, which winds up hedging their personality closer and closer to it, and past a certain point, usually post-puberty, this begins to exponentially calcify until it more or less becomes their personality, what some might call "becoming the mask" as it were.

So most of this, it's LEARNED BEHAVIOR, both by external influence and internal self-conditioning, it's not that there's this inexplicable plethora of sociopaths so much as we create them via our society - I wrote a paper on this under a pseudonym "Learned Sociopathy as a psychological defense mechanism" and to say it was less than well-recieved is a severe understatement.
In fact, the extremity of the knee-jerk, overblown reactive flaming rather convinced me I had struck a nerve, and a deep one.

That's actually kind of my key to winding up and sabotaging enablers, the weakness that I exploit isn't that their soci

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 27, 2012 5:17 PM

Addendum to that: Genetics loads the gun, Environment pulls the trigger.
No matter what predispositions someone has, a caring environment and emotional support (you know, the things our society scorns as coddling or weakness) can do a lot to mitigate a violent or hostile nature.

-F

PIRATENEWS

Friday, July 27, 2012 5:58 PM

http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2012/07/dark-knight-rising-for-new-w
orld-order.html

James Holmes was paid $176,000 in 2012 by Hussein Obama Soetoro's National Institutes of Health to perform mind control research in neuroscience and to teach university students as a professor on salary. Holmes previously was employed by DARPA at the Pentagon for mind control reserch to make Super Soldiers who kill without pain and feel no remorse, because they have drug-impaired amnesia. Now Holmes has amnesia. Eyewitnesses told ABC News the actual shooter was 6 inches shorter than Holmes, and police radio scanner tapes reveal police were looking for 2 shooters AFTER Holmes was "arrested" because he parked beside the exit door and was calmly sitting in his car WITHOUT any weapons or combat (actually EVERYBODY was arrested and not allowed to leave). Holmes never allegedly dressed as a Joker and had the wrong hair color (red not green), but THE SHOOTER DID DRESS AS A POLICE OFFICER. Aurora Municipal Corporation has an unconstitutional ordinance banning all citizens from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights by carrying a handgun WITH a Colorado handgun carry license. So Colorado citizens WITH handgun carry licenses were technically banned from defendign themselves in the Aurora Victim Disarmamanet Zone (except all unconstitutional laws are void from inception, US Supreme Court, DC vs Heller).

12 victims died in the Batman Massacre...what a COINCIDENCE Lil Wayne Video Featured Exactly 12 Skeletons in a Theater 3 Days Prior to Batman Massacre!

Quote:
"We need to brainwash people to think about guns in a vastly different way."
-US attorney general Eric Holder, massmurdering terrorist of Operation Fast and Furious and the OK City Bombing, CSPAN2, 1985

Colonel Ed O'Connell: Blackwater is "whacking people like crazy" for Obama and the CIA (in Colorado?)
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/the-terrifying-bac
kground-of-the-man-who-ran-a-cia-assassination-unit/259856/

Mexican official: CIA 'manages' drug trade in Mexico in Operation Fast and Furious
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/07/2012721152715628181.
html

Mexico has yet to ID any of the 49 headless bodies found 2 months ago in the Mexican Gun Ban Victim Disarmament Zone
http://www.presstelegram.com/breakingnews/ci_21147259/mexico-has-yet-i
d-any-49-bodies-found

"Art" at genocidal UN HQ built on slaughterhouse donated by Rockefller jew banksters

Bombshell: Leaked UN Treaty Does Ban Guns in USA signed by Obama THIS WEEK !!!!
Orwellian Double-Speak "Individual rights of STATES" (NATIONS) to start WARS without other nations is OK !!!!!!
Only STATES (NATIONS) have a right to self defense, not individual persons !!!!!!!
"Collective rights" defined as NATIONS joining other nations to start WARS is OK
http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-un-gun-treaty-does-ban-guns/

Obama's Communist Weather Underground terrorist bombers wanted to kill 25 million US citizens in concentration death camps, says FBI agent infiltrator who sent them to prison for killing cops and bombing the Pentagon
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2113455/posts

How many FFFs will die when Dictato

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, July 28, 2012 1:25 AM

MKULTRA means your governments love you!

Shooting suspect James Holmes was treated by university psychiatrist Dr Lynne Fenton, a professor at CU's medical
school and the director of student mental health services, specializes in schizophrenia, chief of physical medicine with the U.S. Air Force in San Antonio, Texas (where MKULTRA Project Monarch brainwashing takes place, especially with Basic Military Training recruits).
HOLMES OR SOMEBODY SENT HER A LETTER TO STOP THE MASSACRE BUT SHE REFUSED TO OPEN HER MAIL........
WOW NOW SHE CAN ADD THE BATMAN MASSACRE TO HER RESUME AND GET A BIG PROMOTION!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/27/us/colorado-theater-shooting-psychiatris
t/index.html
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/shooting-suspect-james-holmes-trea
ted-cu-psychiatrist-193517014.html
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/404650-motion-for-immediate-pro
duction-of-all-discovery.html

Dr Lynne Fenton was chief MKULTRA for the U.S. Air Force in San Antonio, Texas and Dark Knight Massacre

Dr. Louis Joyon "Jolly" West, the court appointed psychiatrist for all recent "lone nut" killers and chief of MKULTRA brainwashing, was in the U.S. Air Force Medical Corps and Chief of Psychiatry Service at the Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas.
http://www.whale.to/b/west_q.html
http://www.reflectionsinthenight.com/psychiatric_abuse.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Jolyon_West
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread621607/pg1

AMNESIA: James Holmes Is Behaving Like Sirhan Sirhan, asks jailers, "Why am I here?"
http://www.infowars.com/james-holmes-is-behaving-like-sirhan-sirhan/

Quote:
During the Second World War Cameron began working for the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). However, in 1943 he went to Canada and established the psychiatry department at Montreal's McGill University and director of the newly-created Allan Memorial Institute.

Cameron continued to work for the OSS and in November 1945, Allen Dulles sent him to Germany to examine Rudolf Hess in order to assess if he was fit to stand trial at Nuremberg. According to one source, Dulles had told Cameron, that he believed the Hess he was about to examine was not the real Hess and that he had already been executed on the orders of Winston Churchill. (Gordon Thomas, Journey into Madness, 1993, pages 167-68).

It has been argued by John Simkin that Cameron might have been sent to Nuremberg to help the British intelligence services with a problem concerning the real reasons why Rudolf Hess arrived in Scotland in May 1941. Cameron’s task was to remove Hess’s memory of past events. This is why in 1946 Hess was unable to recognize his former friends and colleagues such as Hermann Goering, Julius Streicher and Joachim von Ribbentrop. Cameron next job was to provide Hess with a new memory about events dating back to May 1941.

After the war Cameron worked at the Albany State Medical School. Cameron developed the theory that mental patients could be cured by treatment that erased existing memories and by rebuilding the psyche completely. According to his research assistant, Dr. Peter Roper, "He (Cameron) had a technician called Leonard Rubenstein who modified cassettes so there was an endless tape, it could keep repeating itself for hours at a time. If Cameron could give a positive message, eventually a patient would respond to it." Cameron would play the tapes to his patients for up to 86 days, as they slipped in and out of insulin-induced comas.

In the late 1940s Cameron developed a new treatment for mental illness. The authors of Double Standards argue that his "major inspiration was the British psychiatrist William Sargent, whom Cameron considered to be the leading expert on Soviet brainwashing techniques. Cameron took this work

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:48 AM

Professor Holmes' father, Dr Robert Holmes PhD, is reportedly scheduled to testify within the next few weeks before a US Senate panel on the largest bank fraud scandal in world, LIBOR London Inter Bank Offered Rate scam, with $350-TRILLION in derivatives missing....

https://www.google.com/search?q=libor+bank&rls=com.microsoft:en-us
:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DXTB_enUS469

Here's the news TODAY:

Quote:
(Reuters) - Britain's Lloyds Banking Group has received subpoenas from government agencies investigating a global interest rate rigging scandal that has rocked the banking industry and has not set any money aside to cover a potential fine, it said on Thursday.

Rival Barclays has been thrown into turmoil after being fined a record $453 million by U.S. and UK authorities for manipulating Libor interest rates. More than a dozen other banks are also being investigated and more fines are expected.

Lloyds, Britain's biggest retail bank, said in its 2011 annual report that it was a defendant in several Libor-related lawsuits. Research from Liberum Capital has suggested it could have to pay out up to 1.5 billion pounds ($2.3 billion).

"Certain members of the group have received subpoenas and requests for information from certain government agencies and are co-operating with their investigations," Lloyds said, while declining to give specific details.

On a conference call with reporters, Finance Director George Culmer said there was no need for the bank to set aside funds for potential litigation arising from the Libor affair.

"We are still part of an ongoing investigation and until the regulator is satisfied that that investigation is complete there is no point at this stage in thinking about or putting down a number," Culmer said.

The Libor interest rate is used as a benchmark in financial contracts worth hundreds of trillions of dollars. Barclays' chairman and chief executive have both resigned since the bank admitted its past involvement in manipulating the interest rate.

MORE COMPENSATION

Lloyds also reported first-half results just ahead of expectations and said it had set aside another 700 million pounds to compensate customers mis-sold insurance products - another scandal to have undermined trust in Britain's banks.

Compensation for mis-selling payment protection insurance (PPI) has now cost Lloyds some 1.075 billion pounds this year, and 4.3 billion pounds in total.

Lloyds said its underlying profit increased by 715 million pounds to 1.064 billion pounds in the first half, ahead of the average forecast of 1.03 billion, according to a poll of 20 analysts supplied by the company.

The PPI hit dragged the bank to a statutory loss of 439 million pounds.

Shares in Lloyds were down 0.7 percent to 29.64 pence at 0845 GMT, lagging a flat European bank index.

"Although Lloyds is our preferred domestic play, reflecting its lack of exposure to investment banking, we retain a hold stance reflecting the considerable uncertainty relating macroeconomic environment, regulation, the political environment and litigation risk," said Shore Capital analyst Gary Greenwood.

($1 = 0.6463 British pounds)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/26/us-lloyds-results-idUSBRE86P
08020120726

Quote:
"Most important to note about James Holmes, however, this report says, is that his father, Robert Holmes, was said to have been scheduled to testify within the next few weeks before a US Senate panel on the largest bank fraud scandal in world history that is currently unfolding and threatens to destabilize and destroy the Western banking system. Robert Holmes, whose “blueblood” family links go back to the Mayflower, is known throughout the global banking community as being the creator of one of the most sophisticated computer algorithms ever developed and is credited with developing predictive models for financial services; credit and fraud risk models

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, July 28, 2012 3:55 AM

dear lord, how do you work the 'ignore' function on this site?

WISHIMAY

Saturday, July 28, 2012 4:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Didja ever notice that the nations with the most HUMANE approaches to people actually have very LOW crime and violence rates?? (I point to Europe and MOST other developed nations as examples.)

Of course not!

Yer one of those people that see the world through rose colored lenses, aincha?? Yeah, we kill more people 'cause we got GUNS but people are just as violent pretty much everywhere.

http://www.tinyvital.com/blog/2003/7/26/american-vs-european-crime-rat
es/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Eu
rope-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

I think that's what the problem is with MOST of you. You still wanna believe that people are good natured and WANT to be good. Newsflash! They aren't!
The vast majority of people that stay straight do so because of FEAR. Because inside we are all little outnumbered kids who do what they're told and are afraid to step outside the line. People in general DON'T QUESTION because they simply DON'T WANT TO. (How 'bout Santa Claus for starters, let alone religion...

)

Many of you can't even bring yourselves to look at the evil....the "not pretty" news reports. It's pretty much ALL I DO. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US IS A RAGING ID, WAITING TO BE PUSHED. I mean, just LOOK at Piratenews...You think he's the minority mind??? I hate to use pop culture to prove a point, but House is right, and Lie to ME was right.

EVERYONE LIES.

I am as sure of that as I am that a lot of you have done some pretty crappy stuff to other people, so let's just dispense with the piety here, shall we?
Ain't none here been "sainted."

And as much as I admit I would love to pick apart y'alls posts as obsessively as you gang up an nitpick on others'...I HAVEN'T BEEN HOME FOR THE LAST TWO DAYS, and when I was here I was in chat trying to actually BE HELPFUL, which I would rather be doing than standing around arguing.

Cause what you say here don't matter a shit, and what I say here don't matter a shit. This place ain't a job, don't accomplish much, and is just a distraction. That's it.

ANTHONYT

Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:21 AM

Quote:
I was here I was in chat trying to actually BE HELPFUL, which I would rather be doing than standing around arguing.

Hello,

I think trying to be helpful would require you to be more than a raging, evil id waiting to tear apart all that's decent in the world.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

ANTHONYT

Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
dear lord, how do you work the 'ignore' function on this site?

Hello,

It's a fucking chore scrolling through all that bullshit, ain't it? If I drank, it'd drive me to it.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, July 28, 2012 7:49 AM

Love it, Anthony :)

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, July 28, 2012 8:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I think that's what the problem is with MOST of you. You still wanna believe that people are good natured and WANT to be good. Newsflash! They aren't!
The vast majority of people that stay straight do so because of FEAR. Because inside we are all little outnumbered kids who do what they're told and are afraid to step outside the line. People in general DON'T QUESTION because they simply DON'T WANT TO. (How 'bout Santa Claus for starters, let alone religion... )

I call bullshit.

For example, the incredibly destructive, yet obviously ludicrous MYTH that we're all raging pyschos kept in check by force, almost always offered by someone with an agenda being the one holding that leash, it's bullshit, and it was bullshit all the way back through history, the divine right of kings, and people who claimed to be the voice of god.
And yet you don't fucking question THAT, do you, just chug-chug-chug the kool-aid and then flame people trying to tell you it's poison, of course.

Firstoff, if we needed government to civilize us, how the hell did we build civilization in the first place, hmmm?
But if you want real, hard core, practical proof - one trip to the grocery store utterly fucking proves it.

First there's the roads and highway - people do not obey those rules out of fear, out of concern for punishment, they do so because cooperation is the ONLY WAY IT WILL EVER WORK EFFECTIVELY, and despite the occasional asshat, it *does* work, because they cooperate, because they CHOOSE to cooperate, it's a hard-wired part of our nature which is what allowed us to conquer our environment and build civilization, duh.
Case in point, construction and those shitheads who try to rush down the shoulder and dart in cause they think themselves more important, most of the time there's also some folk who move their cars out onto the shoulder, taking a small risk, for NO gain to themselves, and block these uncooperative fuckheads - not really a selfish act that, is it ?

And then you get to the store, and again, the general rule, the DEFAULT, is cooperation at the register line, people CHOOSE to play along, cause it's the only way it can work effectively, plus you often have folks (and I happen to be one of em) who will wave someone with less items in ahead of them... and so on and so forth.

NONE of this would be possible if that bullshit myth of selfishness held an ounce of water, not without a fuckton of armed goons, anyways.
Beyond that, there's the work of Perry and other noteable scientists who've completely PROVEN it, beyond doubt - humans are HARD-WIRED for cooperation and empathy, those vanishingly rare few who are not are genetic misfires, who only "succeed" because they've managed to sell that bullshit myth enough to put them on top of the heap since few people QUESTION it, and fewer still are willing or able to blow it to hell when presented to them.

Mind you, we've KNOWN this, a lot of us, since 1754 via Rosseau, and refined in 1902 by Kropotkin.
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/kropotkin/mutaidcontents
.html

So it's not us that are the cause of tragedy and carnage, it's you.
So long as you hold so dear to a complete fiction which is in my opinion the very core of most of todays evil, you are not in any way the solution because you are part of the problem.

And of course, so quickly do you dismiss this electronic world as irrelevant despite having witnessed it's effects upon society, the way the razor of truth can be applied to political and social lies, astroturfing exposed, smear campaigns destroyed - and so easily do you dismiss that which you know has meaning, perhaps because now that you've pulled off the mask, you wish that what has been witnessed can be unseen.

Nope, not happening.

-Frem

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, July 28, 2012 10:59 AM

Quote:

The former graduate student accused in the Colorado movie theater shooting was being treated by a psychiatrist at the university where he studied, according to court papers released on Friday.

Defense attorneys for James Holmes, 24, made the disclosure in a court motion, which sought to discover the source of leaks to some media outlets that Holmes sent the psychiatrist a package containing a notebook with descriptions of an attack.

The motion says the package contained communications between Holmes and Dr Lynne Fenton that should be shielded from public view.

A message left with Fenton's office was not immediately returned. The package was seized by authorities Monday after it was discovered in the mailroom at the University of Colorado, Denver. It's unclear if it was sent before the attack early last Friday.

Calls to Holmes' lawyer, Daniel King, were referred to the head of the Colorado State Public Defender's office, Douglas Wilson, who was out of the office and did not immediately return a message seeking comment.

from The Guardian

WISHIMAY

Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:32 PM

Frem you believe what you wanna believe. People have good days and bad, but there is a reason they make laws for just about everything, and a reason jails are full to bursting.

Anthony, ask just about any person in the medical field and they will all say they fairly hate humanity, but still would like to help even though it's pretty much useless.

Magons, it's called setup for insanity. He planned this crap for months, you don't think he spent just as much time planning a way out for his stupid self?

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, July 28, 2012 3:38 PM

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, July 28, 2012 4:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
there's the work of Perry and other noteable scientists who've completely PROVEN it, beyond doubt - humans are HARD-WIRED for cooperation and empathy

Yep, it's very prevalent in countless brain functions.

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
So for most people, whether it is easy or not, whether it is profitable or punished, it's STILL A CHOICE, and they CHOSE this path, which limits my sympathy for them.

I don't disagree on any particular point. And clearly, even someone with the rarified brain anatomy of a psychopath can actually be a decent human being, a scientist working on questions that could better society.
You made a point about psychotropic drugs, and I definitely agree that their use should be limited. I'm hoping that, someday, I can do research that will find better, safer methods for rebalancing the brain chemistry that can be thrown off-kilter by, oh, so many things. A few such things are already known, but it would be thrilling to discover more. I'm also going to operate on a platform that no drugs should be prescribed without an actual diagnostic test of a patient's chemical state. I had a neurotransmitter test that changed my life, and it was painless and pretty affordable, particularly weighed against the benefits it gave me. I don't think a few sessions with a psychiatrist (which probably would have cost the same) would have yielded anything like the same results. (No, I didn't go on any drugs; there's a reason I know that effective alternatives exist.) I'm also opposed to children being on drugs that seriously effect their chemistry while it's still developing. There are instances where it might be necessary to medicate a child (I'm talking things like chronic epilepsy or other serious conditions that could lead to injury or death) but the prevalence of child medication for "behavioral disorders" is heartwrenching to me, and it's out of control. Yeah, maybe it really is a disorder, but I think it often isn't. Even if it is, a lot of things stabilize after puberty, and that chance should be given. Just feeding a kid the right food can have a profound impact, and that should be the first resort. Concentrated nutrients in supplemental form should be the next one, though some of those can impact chemistry to the point where I'd be hesitant. Serious, intense drugs should only be a resort if someone's life is literally at stake.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

ANTHONYT

Saturday, July 28, 2012 4:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

The former graduate student accused in the Colorado movie theater shooting was being treated by a psychiatrist at the university where he studied, according to court papers released on Friday.

Defense attorneys for James Holmes, 24, made the disclosure in a court motion, which sought to discover the source of leaks to some media outlets that Holmes sent the psychiatrist a package containing a notebook with descriptions of an attack.

The motion says the package contained communications between Holmes and Dr Lynne Fenton that should be shielded from public view.

A message left with Fenton's office was not immediately returned. The package was seized by authorities Monday after it was discovered in the mailroom at the University of Colorado, Denver. It's unclear if it was sent before the attack early last Friday.

Calls to Holmes' lawyer, Daniel King, were referred to the head of the Colorado State Public Defender's office, Douglas Wilson, who was out of the office and did not immediately return a message seeking comment.

from The Guardian

Hello,

I wish with all my heart that the psychiatrist had seen that document in time to alert the authorities.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, July 28, 2012 4:39 PM

On the radio, dispatchers and cops were laughing at the sheeple at first, as they always do every day. The police scanner broadcast proves the cops were incompetently bungling around, not taking the 911 calls seriously, with almost no ambulances available. Only victims who could walk outside the theater were taken to an ambulance, if an ambulance was available. SERIOUSLY INJURED VICTIMS WERE ABANDONED BY POLICE AND LEFT TO DIE. POLICE DID NOT STORM THE THEATER AND SHOOT THE SHOOTER NOR RESCUE THE VICTIMS. Police cowered outside the theater until they were confident the shooter had escaped. There was zero containment of the crime scene and all shooters were allowed to leave. PROFESSOR James Holmes was sitting calmly in his white car closest to the theater exit, but was intoxicated and unaware of his surroundings, and was NOT wearing the police uniform and gas mask of the shooter, and was NOT in possession of any guns used in the shooting. The actual shooter was described by eyewitness survivors as 6 inches shorter than Professor James Holmes. Professor James was paid a $176,000 grant from Obama for mind control research and previously worked for Pentagon's DARPA, whose father is a PhD computer programmer with Pentagon's DARPA scheduled to testify to Congress about the LIBOR bank theft of $350-TRILLION dollars.

POLICE SCANNER LOG

5:23 Shooter still inside Theater 9 (cops cowering in fear outside)

6:40 Searching for suspect in gas mask

7:00 A suspect in gas mask from white car going back into theater

10:20 A shooter in a blue plaid shirt

12:00 Multiple shooter suspects

14:50 Magazine found from rifle

16:00 Searching for suspects with red backpack and black uniform

19:00 Clearing theater looking for shooters

24:50 2 shooters with gasmask and red backpack

25:50 Looking for suspect

31:30 Looking for suspect in police helmet with long gun

38:00 Check suspect's car with bomb unit

45:22 Check white vehicle tag 119ROC (James holmes) "Be sure we're not looking for anybody else"

56:30 Secure suspect's vehicle (James Holmes)

1:10:30 Tennessee vehicle tag Hyundai Accent suspected bomb (not James holmes)

1:12:20 Tennessee tag "clear" (Corryton) TN

AT NO TIME WAS THERE ANY DESCRIPTION OF THE ARREST OF JAMES HOLMES, NO NAMES NOR NUMBERS OF ANY POLICE OFFICER WHO ARRESTED JAMES HOLMES, NO DESCRIPTION OF WHAT JAMES HOLMES WAS WEARING, NO BACKGROUND CHECK OF JAMES HOLMES BY DRIVER LICENSE NUMBER, NO ANNOUNCEMENT TO OTHER COPS THAT THE ALLEGED SUSPECTED SHOOTER WAS UNDER ARREST, NO DESCRIPTION OF THE WEAPONS RECOVERED AT THE CRIME SCENE. DURING A REAL ARREST THE OFFICERS WILL NAME ALL THESE EVENTS IN THE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS.

http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2012/07/dark-knight-rising-for-new-w
orld-order.html

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Frem you believe what you wanna believe. People have good days and bad, but there is a reason they make laws for just about everything, and a reason jails are full to bursting.

Yeah, it's called MONEY.

Jailing Americans for Profit: The Rise of the Prison Industrial Complex
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_
1414467.html

And as usual, the first targets were juvies, something brought to light by that whole kids-for-cash scandal, which was never invested deeply enough, and the charges restricted to financial matters only since all involved didn't seem to give a shit that lives were destroyed, only that someone didn't get their cut.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

The so-called justice system is complicit in this because of overlegislation, to the point where the average american unknowingly commits an average of three felonies a day.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760
842.html

Again, this myth, and much of government, is in fact the problem, yet masquerades as a solution, often to problems they created on purpose to begin with.

I offer in return, THIS, which when you seriously think about it, explains a whole damn lot.

Why Does the World Feel Wrong?
http://www.strike-the-root.com/91/groves/groves1.html

Quote:
Our battle for liberty appears not just as a conflict between those who want freedom versus those who want control, but instead as the battle between normal people and the psychopaths. I have found incredible explanatory power of our world within the psychopathic hypothesis: The world feels wrong because psychopaths run it. In a country trained to discount and ridicule all ideas more than a standard deviation from the average, coherent explanations of observable social phenomena don't get much press. Without understanding physical laws, we would never have gained the massive improvements in our quality of life from technological developments. Similarly, without understanding our social systems, we will never escape from the tyranny unleashed on us by psychopaths. We should spread the word and explore this rich vein of thought with vigor.

And HOW they wind up running it has a lot to do with people buying into that idiotic myth that humans are raving beasts in need of "control", and it just ain't so.

-Frem

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:46 PM

Phoenixrose ?

Quote:
I don't disagree on any particular point. And clearly, even someone with the rarified brain anatomy of a psychopath can actually be a decent human being, a scientist working on questions that could better society.

Indeed, I've met more than my share of very broken people who have found a niche where their flaws can be turned to advantages, in fact helped quite a few of them do so.
A key part of that, which seems to function as an effective bulwark against becoming a danger to self and others, is acceptance of ones own inner darkness - breaking with the conventional western morality and understanding that the shadow self *IS* part of you, and treating it with love and acceptance rather than denial and suppression, embracing who and what you are even if the truth of that isn't as pleasant as you'd like.

I have a violent, maltheistic, misanthropic nature, I *know* this, but rather than let it rule me, or ignore and deny it till it blindsides me - I choose to force-feed the beast within, via venues and methods that harm none, I deliberately overload it, and then shove it out of the way, the psychic equivalent of deliberately making it fat, lazy and weak.. and then I chain it up somewhere in the back of my head where it doesn't get in the friggin way when I have to deal with other people... and if I need it, I just let it go "hungry" for a while and cut it loose.

A large problem with modern pyschology is its infection by religion, especially western all or nothing religious philosophies and the accompanied puritannical idiocy, denial of humanity, the notion that suffering is somehow noble or good for you, yadda-freakin-yadda, when the mind really doesn't work that way and never did.

Quote:
You made a point about psychotropic drugs, and I definitely agree that their use should be limited. I'm hoping that, someday, I can do research that will find better, safer methods for rebalancing the brain chemistry that can be thrown off-kilter by, oh, so many things. A few such things are already known, but it would be thrilling to discover more.

Again, indeed - I know more about that than most laymen, having had to find ways of working around folks issues without medication since at the time we had no access to it - which did sometimes result in disaster, cause some cases DO need it, at least for temporary symptom abatement, but as a longterm solution that's much like treating tuberculosis with nyquil...

Which is also a large problem in todays medical care industry, they go for the quick fix, symptom treatment, without looking to a root cause since that costs too much, and a cured patient no longer represents a source of profit - removing that motive is one reason I am of the opinion we should figure a way to make medical care a human right, we got the resources and the tech, what we lack seems to be the will to make it happen.

Quote:
I'm also going to operate on a platform that no drugs should be prescribed without an actual diagnostic test of a patient's chemical state. I had a neurotransmitter test that changed my life, and it was painless and pretty affordable, particularly weighed against the benefits it gave me. I don't think a few sessions with a psychiatrist (which probably would have cost the same) would have yielded anything like the same results. (No, I didn't go on any drugs; there's a reason I know that effective alternatives exist.) I'm also opposed to children being on drugs that seriously effect their chemistry while it's still developing. There are instances where it might be necessary to medicate a child (I'm talking things like chronic epilepsy or other serious conditions that could lead to injury or death) but the prevalence of child medication for "behavioral disorders" is heartwrenching to me, and it's out of control.

Ayep - proper diagnosis is the key to ANY medical treatment, and too much of this comes from bullshit checklist diagnosis often created by the very c

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, July 28, 2012 7:59 PM

“The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.”
-William Colby, Director of the CIA

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, July 28, 2012 8:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

I offer in return, THIS, which when you seriously think about it, explains a whole damn lot.

Why Does the World Feel Wrong?
http://www.strike-the-root.com/91/groves/groves1.html
Quote:
Our battle for liberty appears not just as a conflict between those who want freedom versus those who want control, but instead as the battle between normal people and the psychopaths. I have found incredible explanatory power of our world within the psychopathic hypothesis: The world feels wrong because psychopaths run it. In a country trained to discount and ridicule all ideas more than a standard deviation from the average, coherent explanations of observable social phenomena don't get much press. Without understanding physical laws, we would never have gained the massive improvements in our quality of life from technological developments. Similarly, without understanding our social systems, we will never escape from the tyranny unleashed on us by psychopaths. We should spread the word and explore this rich vein of thought with vigor.

Absolutely.

At least 10% of everyone you ever met your entire life are psychopaths.

Psychologists agree, there's no cure for psychopaths, it's hardwired into their brains at birth.

Neo psychopaths can be manufactured by TV programming, movie scripts, military training and MKULTRA.

Apathy is a symptom of psychopathy. Which means 90% of the population are neo psychopath zombies...

Psychopaths run all the world's governments and large corporations, including the medical industrial complex, WHICH BANNED THE WORD PSYCHOPATH FROM ITS DSM MANUAL ON MENTAL ILLNESS. The new cute cuddly word for psychopath is "narcissist".

ANYONE can be turned into a homicidal psychopath by MKULTRA (drugs, electroshock, insulin shock, sleep deprivation, waterboarding, forced to watch and kill killing animals and pets, forced to watch and participate in murders as condition to survival, Satanic rituals, etc).

Or just slip them a micky and let em play patsy with amnesia.

WISHIMAY

Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

And HOW they wind up running it has a lot to do with people buying into that idiotic myth that humans are raving beasts in need of "control", and it just ain't so.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178601/Father-hung-daughter-u
pside-chandelier-punishment-jailed.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179271/Innocent-victim-Chinas
-child-policy-Newborn-baby-girl-discarded-bin-left-die-plastic-bag-throat-cut.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174992/Christiana-Glenn-death
-Mother-roommate-starved-girl-8-death.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180169/Horror-father-Frederic
o-Bruno-pushes-ex-girlfriend-baby-floor-window.html

These are just from what I've read TODAY.
No. No beasts here.
I guarantee that most of the people that knew these people would say they "Never would've guessed it." and I'm sure that even the people themselves would've at one time said they would never do such a thing...

All it takes is one push....on just the riiiight spot.

ANTHONYT

Saturday, July 28, 2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

All it takes is one push....on just the riiiight spot.

Hello,

I see. So people are good until pushed in a very particular way that is beyond their tolerance.

Which means the usual, normal condition is a positive one. You have reaffirmed my faith in the goodness of humanity. If making someone evil requires pushing them in particular spots, then people have a natural tendency to be good.

So much for the exploding ferries.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

WISHIMAY

Sunday, July 29, 2012 2:49 AM

Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the day, hon. Here, you can have my old rose-colored glasses....I won't be needing 'em anymore

1KIKI

Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:11 AM

I worked with a total of 4 people found not guilty by reason of insanity for murder. How many have you had contact with?

Do you count murder of the self? (suicide) Do you count only those people who were caught?

Do you think it takes a medical degree to spot mental illness?

No, but it does take a certain amount of study to be able to claim expertise on their inner workings.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

1KIKI

Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:17 AM

"dear lord, how do you work the 'ignore' function on this site?"

I'm afraid I don't know, but the [page down] button is handy.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

1KIKI

Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:36 AM

Yer one of those people that see the world through rose colored lenses, aincha??

Your links are suspect. The fist one lists 'crime', not 'violent crime'. For all we know they count loitering and littering as crime.

The second compares 'violent crime' across countries, but has suspect data. For example, it lists 'violent crime' in Canada as being roughly twice as prevalent as in the US. But more categories are reported as 'violent crime' in Canada than in the US. This is from WIKI: "The reported US violent crime rate includes only Aggravated Assault, whereas the Canadian violent crime rate includes all categories of assault, including the much-more-numerous Assault level 1 (i.e., assault not using a weapon and not resulting in serious bodily harm). A government study concluded that direct comparison of the 2 countries' violent crime totals or rates was "inappropriate"."

All I did was google and went to the first site I came across to find this. If you were at all interested in verifying your information (though apparently you most definitely are not) you would have found this and possibly learned something.

This place ain't a job, don't accomplish much, and is just a distraction. That's it.

Well, you might possibly learn something you never knew before.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

MAL4PREZ

Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
dear lord, how do you work the 'ignore' function on this site?

Amen! And please? And HAKEN ARE YOU LISTENING? PN is gone way off the edge. I do not like bans, but there has been talk of some kind of ignore function for the new site.... Is that still in the works? Because this is ridiculous!

ETA: Yeah, I'm afraid that those brain walls I detected in Wish a while back weren't just imagined. There's stuff going on in there. Not good stuff. Sad.

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, July 29, 2012 5:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

Amen! And please? And HAKEN ARE YOU LISTENING? PN is gone way off the edge. I do not like bans, but there has been talk of some kind of ignore function for the new site.... Is that still in the works? Because this is ridiculous.

You love these guys sticking their hands in your vagina or crushing your testicles at airports, don't you?

Guess which one is the Dark Knight shooter?

Quote:
"He was in full riot gear... He looked like he was from a SWAT team."
-Witness Jennifer Seeger, MSNBC

"The shooter was dressed from head-to-toe in SWAT gear... with Kevlar. He looked like one of the cops. That's what was really confusing to us."
-Jennifer Seeger, three feet away from shooter in theater, CNN

If you'd bother to listen to the police scanner from the DK Massacre, you'd realize what a cluster frak it was, with police refusing to enter the theater while the shooting was taking place, no ambulances for victims and victims describing 2 shooters. Here's the only full scanner log transcript:
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2012/07/dark-knight-rising-for-new-w
orld-order.html

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, July 29, 2012 7:04 AM

Funny how his eye color changed...which does happen to MKULTRA victims with multiple personalities

http://rense.com/general95/realjames.html

Perhaps the real Professor James Holmes is relaxing on Whore Island with Ken Lay?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, July 29, 2012 12:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PIRATENEWS:
Funny how his eye color changed...which does happen to MKULTRA victims with multiple personalities

COOL!

You get your very own MKU Mood Ring when you join up!

"Don't worry about Jack, his eyes are green. He's been drinking Heineken and he's a happy drunk on Heineken."

"Uh Oh...... Jack's eyes are a pale blue. Seems he's deep in his Icehouse bender. It's time to get the F out of Dodge!"

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

NIKI2

Sunday, July 29, 2012 5:18 PM

Hee, hee, hee, Magons, right on. HOW I would love an ignore button! It would help in more ways than just avoiding wasting the time scrolling past PN's bullshit. Or maybe someone could draw him into another thread, just to stop his incessant clattering in this one? You know, just for a change of pace! I swear, my scrolling finger is getting downright SPRAINED in this thread, spending so much time avoiding his silly pictures, graphics, links and whatever other inanity he posts.

Rose, as usual, "everything you said", in spades. Frem too; wonderfully put, especially about how even people "society" has deemed unacceptable can be wonderful people if someone gives a damn and helps them understand they're worthwhile.

And no, Wish--for whome I feel terribly sad--I don't live my life out of fear, I TRY to live it out of compassion because I WANT to. I don't lie, intentionally; sometimes how I see things is colored by my own perspective and therefor not objective, but I don't deliberately lie. I've been told I think like a lawyer, because I find ways to frame things or use omission to avoid deliberately lying, but when it comes to the big things, I don't. I think there are far more out there like me, and Anthony, and Frem who prove your theories wrong. I'm sorry you think the way you do--for you, not anyone else--and maybe if you didn't submerge yourself so much in all the bad stuff, you might feel differently. There are tons and tons of stories out there about people who go out of their way to do good things, even small ones, for no reason that has to do with fear, or money; we don't hear about them because the media is focused on "if it bleeds, it leads". Nobody can change your mind, but I'm sorry you can't see all that.

CAVETROLL

Monday, July 30, 2012 3:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

I worked with a total of 4 people found not guilty by reason of insanity for murder. How many have you had contact with?

Do you count murder of the self? (suicide) Do you count only those people who were caught?

Do you think it takes a medical degree to spot mental illness?

No, but it does take a certain amount of study to be able to claim expertise on their inner workings.

LOL! All it takes is observing them, day by day, the restrictions they live under, and listening to their statements. Of course, being able to read the patient files, with notations from the various professionals doesn't hurt. The 30 or so other patients on that ward took up two shelves of the file cart. The two NGRI spree killers took up a shelf between them. It was interesting reading. They were highly prized patients. I had a feeling that the doctors weren't going to let them be discharged any time soon. They'd have lost their lab rats to study.

And the one fellow I described as crazy like a fox? He'd never been administered any psychoactive medication in the 5 years he'd been at the hospital. His "condition" was managed with a structured environment and therapeutic agent (i.e. burly orderlies). He worked in the hospital canteen from 7am until noon. He had the balance of the day until 5pm free on the hospital grounds, unsupervised. Yep, a real danger to society.

And if we're counting suicides, let's raise my count to ten then. Do murder victims count if they were already in a mental hospital?

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

CAVETROLL

Monday, July 30, 2012 3:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

All it takes is one push....on just the riiiight spot.

Hello,

I see. So people are good until pushed in a very particular way that is beyond their tolerance.

Which means the usual, normal condition is a positive one. You have reaffirmed my faith in the goodness of humanity. If making someone evil requires pushing them in particular spots, then people have a natural tendency to be good.

So much for the exploding ferries.

I believe that most people will do the right thing if given the choice. The hard part is motivating them to think, and then take action.

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 31, 2012 3:09 AM

The news media is now banned from the courtroom......

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/batman-shooting-suspe
ct-james-holmes-in-court-over-cinema-gun-rampage-7986869.html

How convenient for Obama and his Operation Fast and Furious Northwoods.

This patsy will get a life sentence in a nuthouse, no trial, no evidence, no investigation, case closed.

Meanwhile, all semiauto guns will be banned, all mail order ammo will be banned, all self defense will be banned, TSA will grab your genitals in a darkened movie theater, police running around dressed as the Dark Knight shooter, and the fired pedophile Penn State president is now employed by Obama at Dept of Fatherland Security running Top Secret Operation Baby Fuck.

Just dissociate and pretend its a typical Batman movie or Joss Whedon TV show:

Lalalalalala!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1KIKI

Monday, August 6, 2012 5:35 AM

TROLL

And here you are, wrong, yet again. Holmes is looking more and more like a crazy guy with crazy reasons to do what he did.

How does that feel, to be sooooo wrong, so often?

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

NIKI2

Monday, August 6, 2012 8:08 PM

One of the people on my mental-health website has posted that the Aurora guy was dx'd with schizophrenia (asked for link; will provide if/when he posts one). While I hate that mental illness gets tied with violence ("the vast majority of people with mental illness are never violent", as they say and which is true), the fact that he was dx'd schiz, was seeing a p-doc AND she had questions about him makes me a bit angry. There needs to be communication in such cases with the authorities, despite his having dropped out making him "not under their purvey". That angers me considerably; maybe nothing could have been done, but if there were ways to check on such things,it could have been found that he had purchased a large amount of ammo over the internet AND that he had bought a gun, both shortly before the shooting.

We obviously can't KNOW when someone will act out, but it seems to me that there were enough indicators where he was concerned that if there was proper communication, and the police had the ability to check these things out, this one would have raised red flags all over the place.

The new one, not so much. I'm betting he wasn't dx'd or seeing anyone, just a white-supremecist racist asshole, and I DO call those "crazy"! Those I have no doubt couldn't be stopped, as I'm betting he had his gun for a long time, as well as not having sought help.

It's very frustrating, very sad and very infuriating.

ETA: Ah, I googled and see he was seeing a "psychiatrist specializing in schizophrenia", so it's not that he was known to be dx'd with schiz, but a strong possibility.

RIONAEIRE

Monday, August 13, 2012 4:15 AM

I sit somewhere between Frem and Wish. I think people, everyone pretty much, under the right or wrong circumstances, is capable of great evil and great good.

Kids and medicine. I don't think it should be the first thing tried, but sometimes I do think its helpful. The more choices there are the better, regular, natural, both, whatever it takes to be doing as well and feeling as good as possible. I didn't have much luck with my stint of trying natural medicines, so I've gone back to trying regular ones.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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