A new kind of Ebola?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 02:42
VIEWED: 11293
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SIGNYM

Sunday, August 3, 2014 9:45 PM

More Than 100 Health Workers Fighting Ebola Have Contracted It Themselves

Quote:
But a number that is even more alarming was buried in the middle of a Reuters report on Friday. According to Reuters, “more than 100 health workers” that have been fighting Ebola in Africa have contracted the virus themselves. Considering the extraordinary measures that these health workers take to keep from getting the disease, that is quite chilling. We are not just talking about one or two “accidents”. We are talking about more than 100 of them getting sick... The health professionals that are on the front lines of the Ebola fight in Africa are going to extraordinary lengths to keep from getting the virus…

To minimise the risk of infection they have to wear thick rubber boots that come up to their knees, an impermeable body suit, gloves, a face mask, a hood and goggles to ensure no air at all can touch their skin. They are only allowed to work for between four and six weeks in the field because the conditions are so gruelling. At their camp they go through multiple decontaminations which includes spraying chlorine on their shoes.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/more-than-100-health-workers
-fighting-ebola-have-contracted-it-themselves?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=more-than-100-health-workers-fighting-ebola-have-contracted-it-themselves

Local nurses are going on strike. They refuse to work with Ebola patients. One doctor who worked in Africa fighting Ebola talked about being in a ward with 70 Ebola patients, and there were just two people there: Himself and another foreign doctor.

There have been outbreaks of Ebola-related viruses, most specifically in Reston, VA. This particular Ebola variant showed up in infected macaque monkeys. However, in the research facility it showed a distressing new capability of becoming airborne. Monkeys in the facility became sick, even if the only thing they shared was the ventilation system.

This was all chronicled in the book The Hot Zone, which I read at the time. It was scary stuff.

Quote:
Here’s what happened:

In the fall of 1989, Hazelton Laboratories had a lab at 1946 Isaac Newton Square West, where KinderCare is now located. The lab did animal experiments. There were already about 500 macaque monkeys housed at the facility when 100 more were flown from the Philippines, according to an article in the Internet Journal of Preventative Medicine.

A month later, 29 of the 100 quarantined monkeys had died. During a necropsy, a veterinarian found one monkey’s spleen had tripled in size and hardened and there was blood in the intestines. After conducting several other necropsies he diagnosed the deaths as being caused by simian hemorrhagic fever virus (SHFV), the Journal article said.

The Hazelton facility veterinarian then sent samples of the monkey tissues to the United States Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) for a conclusive diagnosis. Meanwhile, Hazelton lab workers began euthanizing the remaining animals, but sporadic deaths began occurring in several other rooms. Soon, 30 monkeys from a different shipment were dead.

Back at USAMRIID another researcher discovered by electron microscopy that Ebola Zaire was responsible for the monkey deaths. On Nov. 28, 1989 nearly six weeks after monkeys began dying in Reston, USAMRIID verified the Ebola finding. The following day, representatives from USAMRIID, the CDC, and the Virginia Department of Health met and developed an action plan. The CDC would handle people; USAMRIID would handle the monkeys and the monkey facility. Because of the threat that Ebola might spread to staff, Reston, and the greater Washington, DC community, the Army determined that all remaining monkeys would be immediately euthanized. The first task was to determine how best to administer a solution to a building potentially full of Ebola.

Scientists came to Reston in hazmat suits in order to carefully euthanize monkeys and stop the spread of

1KIKI

Sunday, August 3, 2014 10:42 PM

That is new and deeply troubling information. I had read about the one doctor and the two US aid workers. It didn't concern me because there are always a few accidental exposures. (I've read probably a half-dozen full sized books on Ebola - including The Hot Zone - and many papers. That some medical personnel get infected seems to be historically an unavoidable occurrence.)

That SO MANY have become infected is shocking. Something basically different must be happening.

I can imagine another explanation besides it having become airborne. Typically Ebola isn't thought of as being infectious until symptoms develop. It might have developed an infectious prodrome. Or there may be an earlier/ different stage where infection control procedures aren't being followed, for example handling of waste and contaminated articles.

We'll have to wait and see.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 3, 2014 11:29 PM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Peace Corps Pulls Out

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58420

THGRRI

Monday, August 4, 2014 7:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/more-than-100-health-workers
-fighting-ebola-have-contracted-it-themselves?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=more-than-100-health-workers-fighting-ebola-have-contracted-it-themselves

Hrmmm. You're quoting "End of the American Dream" web site? Nope, no agenda there....

I know the hate Sig has for this country is always present. I was looking back at other threads.

Roller coaster economics: 2007 redux?

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58118.

She can't wait for this country to fail and never missises an opportunity to slander us.

1KIKI

Monday, August 4, 2014 8:48 PM

Hrmmm. You're quoting "End of the American Dream" web site? Nope, no agenda there....
She can't wait for this country to fail and never missises an opportunity to slander us.

Because a news story - about Ebola - in Africa- is ALL ABOUT the US. Or do you really not know that Africa is on a different continent than the US? Sheesh. You two - could you be any more full of crap?

Oh, yeah - better put Reuters on your list of news sources you refuse to accept.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/01/us-health-ebola-healthworker
s-idUSKBN0G14FR20140801

Exposure of health workers weakens Africa's Ebola fight
reuters.com
By Umaru Fofana, Daniel Flynn and Kate Kelland
More than 100 health workers have been infected by the viral disease

Yanno, it occurred to me she could be posting stories carried by major news agencies but linking minor sources. Just to make you do your Pavlovian thang and point and gibber about the SOURCE by god! And make you look even more stupid than you already do. If that's at all possible.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Monday, August 4, 2014 9:31 PM

THUGR is just mad because I said the only thing he brought to this forum was the ability to suck his own dick. Which is true.

He draws nice pictures, tho.

SIGNYM

Monday, August 4, 2014 10:26 PM

G, the fact that 100 healthcare workers got Ebola was listed in other sites, but the one I linked had links to the other sources in one convenient place. YES, it is a scare-mongering site, but it did have quotes and links. If you can't separate out the information from the source... if you rely on the source to do your thinking for you... then it's you that has a problem, not me.

I would have liked more information on those 100 workers - local, foreign workers, and internal experts - all of whom have gotten sick.

Did the local healthcare workers have access to even SOME protective equipment? Did the foreign healthcare workers have access? If yes, did they ditch the hazmat suits - which make working so arduous that you have to spend the next 7 hours re-hydrating- in favor of being able to work longer hours? Many unanswered questions.

The outbreak so far as been represented with a rearview mirror outlook. Officials were warning as recently as last week that the epidemic "could" cross international boundaries, when the reality is that it already has.

Finally, they woke up. Experts at the WHO are deciding whether to declare this a serious health emergency, which would allow the suspension of international travel, for example. Sierra Leone has brought the military into play, restricting border travel and doing house-to-house searches. (Quite frankly, I think this will simply scatter people farther, along more surreptitious routes). Developed-world resources are being brought to bear, I feel that as long as they thought this represented yet another third-world disease in yet another third-world nation, NOTHING would be done. But once it looked to become a threat to the developed nations, the gears started moving.

THGRRI

Monday, August 4, 2014 10:43 PM

The fact that you always go to these sites and quote them is the point here. It is always the point with you. You visit these sites because of their bias against America which fuels your hate. It is best for others aside from 1kiki to forgo your input and just research stories that interest them. What you provide is always tainted.

As for sucking dicks, it would be you that actually has experienced that Sig. My boat floats towards sane women.

1KIKI

Tuesday, August 5, 2014 2:56 AM

It seems like yo judge the news by the source, rather than by the facts.

BTW, I don't 'judge' FOX news. I simply don't have time to sift through it. If one has a long history with a source - validating stories, getting the complete picture through many sources - it's possible to say whether, by your experience, a source is going to provide you with accurate and complete information. You haven't done that. You look at the name and make a bunch of assumptions. I challenge you to spend a week looking at the front page of RT. Note which stories are true and which are false by your ability to find the same information in other places.

Not that you will, of course. B/c you 'know' better.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Tuesday, August 5, 2014 4:26 AM

G...your just beating your head up against a wall with this one. I can guaranty no matter what she will continue to say so you don't believe in the facts over and over again. She's too (fill in the blank)to bother with.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, August 6, 2014 3:14 AM

Per the CDC, almost 2 weeks after the doctors got sick, we STILL don't know how they were infected.

But all is well.

Remain calm.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:02 PM

She's too (fill in the blank)to bother with.

Fill in the blank...

Intelligent?
Investigative?
Fact-driven?
Resistant to propaganda?

SIGNYM

Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:29 PM

Quote:
Why would someone who is any of those things get their "news" from a state run outlet? That's not very any of those.

That second sentence is so garbled, I have no idea what you're trying to say. But, as far as the first is concerned... what makes you think there are any news outlets that are NOT state controlled? As far as I'm concerned, since they're ALL state controlled, even you (yes, you) get your "news" from state-controlled outlets. You simply have decided to limit your news to a particular set of states.

Quote:
She's also been caught too many times making negative assumptions and simply wrong ones.

Um, I think the real point is that you've been caught too many times making positive assumptions, but just wrong ones. You have yet to show that either KIKI or I are wrong. What I get back from you is a lot of assumption-based emotion, but no analysis. Therefore, your assumptions remain undetected (by you).

Ebola isn't going to go out of control, it IS out of control. It might not spread across international boundaries, it ALREADY HAS. It might not establish itself in major cities, it's already there. As the epidemic gets bigger and bigger, the cost and effort to being it under control gets greater and greater, and right now, I don't see the international commitment necessary to stomp it out. And international commitment is necessary, because the nations in question are too poor (and in some cases, too corrupt) to do this on their own.

So, a dilemma. Health care workers have a chance to stop this in Nigeria, but the three nations already deeply involved.... ?

THGRRI

Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Per the CDC, almost 2 weeks after the doctors got sick, we STILL don't know how they were infected.

But all is well.

Remain calm.

I saw an article where someone suggested the material used to make a type of suit used in these situations is too porous and allows contaminant's in. It is to flimsy. There may also be a flaw in how they handle the suits when removing them.

THGRRI

Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:38 PM

Quote:
….Sig
what makes you think there are any news outlets that are NOT state controlled? As far as I'm concerned, since they're ALL state controlled, even you (yes, you) get your "news" from state-controlled outlets. You simply have decided to limit your news to a particular set of states.

This response from you to G shows your limited understanding of how the world works. You are assigning the same degree of governmental intrusion into the news to all entities that report the news globally. They all do this, they all do that, with little regard for the different degrees to which each state may practice something; like propaganda. In this country the state may imply something to spin a topic towards a frame of though they wish you to peruse, as will the news agency’s themselves more often than not. Most do tend to lean left or right but mostly it is what they exclude in their reporting that shows their biases. Still, other news outlets will make their own determination in a follow up (be it on air or in printed form). In this country our government may make a video they wish the news agency’s to run concerning any list of topics. Many times because it is news the news outlet will run it unedited. That is a form of propaganda but again there is always a dissenting voice that can be heard that follows by that very news provider or their competition. There is a very big difference between that and what has happened to the news in Russia with the presence of Putin. Or Iran and many of the other news sources you research for you arguments, which do little more than cast aspersions on the west. The world has many more dimensions to it than you are apparently able to grasp.

Quote:
….Sig
Um, I think the real point is that you've been caught too many times making positive assumptions, but just wrong ones. You have yet to show that either KIKI or I are wrong. What I get back from you is a lot of assumption-based emotion, but no analysis. Therefore, your assumptions remain undetected (by you).

I find this amusing. You and 1kiki have yet to be right unless we are talking global warming. When it comes to the Ukraine, wrong. When it comes to the Middle East, wrong. When it comes to America, wrong. Your belief system is tainted by the negative brush you use to paint everything but your beloved Socialism.

Sorry, but when you suggest G is coming from a place of assumption based on emotion, it is yourself and 1kiki you are describing not G. I can’t count the amount of times I have read G saying to 1kiki, that is not what I said read it again. It is a constant reminder to me of all the times she has chosen to ignore what I was saying and respond with something that established for me, chatting anything with her was pointless.

Lastly I would say I am torn between not responding to those hear who have an agenda, and letting the voices of reason stand unassisted in their attempts to keep these threads alive.. Alas, life has taught me the extremes on both sides are more likely to engage as I have witnessed here. My feeling is I should wean myself off of these threads entirely. I am sure there are half a dozen here that would love that which is of little concern to me. It’s just, this is fast becoming a place I do not wish to hang out.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Per the CDC, almost 2 weeks after the doctors got sick, we STILL don't know how they were infected.

But all is well.

Remain calm.

I saw an article where someone suggested the material used to make a type of suit used in these situations is too porous and allows contaminant's in. It is to flimsy. There may also be a flaw in how they handle the suits when removing them.

Great.

I guess the spokesman didn't think that worthy of discussion .

THGRRI

Wednesday, August 6, 2014 10:37 PM

All your going to hear from them is smooth sailing for a bit longer.

Everything positive....

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Thursday, August 7, 2014 4:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:

Why would someone who is any of those things get their "news" from a state run outlet? That's not very any of those.

Actually the best news source in this country is government funded.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/vic/

Just thought I'd point that out.

Here are a few sources on the Ebola outbreak

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/06/health/africa-ebola-outbreak/index.h
tml

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/ebola-outbreak-nurse-nige
ria-dies

SIGNYM

Thursday, August 7, 2014 8:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
what makes you think there are any news outlets that are NOT state controlled? As far as I'm concerned, since they're ALL state controlled, even you (yes, you) get your "news" from state-controlled outlets. You simply have decided to limit your news to a particular set of states.-Sig

This response from you to G shows your limited understanding of how the world works... In this country the state may imply something to spin a topic towards a frame of though they wish you to peruse, as will the news agency’s themselves more often than not. ... In this country our government may make a video they wish the news agency’s to run concerning any list of topics. Many times because it is news the news outlet will run it unedited. That is a form of propaganda but again there is always a dissenting voice that can be heard that follows by that very news provider or their competition.

Huh.

One of the points I made in the Gaza thread was the internet censorship I stumbled across the other day, while looking for the number of rockets and mortars that Israel fires into Gaza. That censorship is absolute, and if you can find that data anywhere, hats off to you. (And be prepared for a knock on your door.)

The USA has done a LOT more than "spin" the news, the NSA/ FBI/ DOJ have "investigated" journalists and news outlets, taking away hard drives and boxes of info. Not small outlets, either, but FOX news and AP.

Quote:
Recent coverage of overbroad subpoenas for telephone records of Associated Press journalists and an inappropriate search warrant for a Fox News reporter are only the latest examples of abuse. In 2010 the Inspector General reported the FBI used an illegal “exigent letter” to obtain the telephone records of 7 New York Times and Washington Post reporters. And the FBI thwarts congressional oversight with excessive secrecy and delayed or misleading responses to questions from Congress

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/unleashed-and-unaccoun
table-fbi-report.pdf

Reporters themselves have said that this inhibits their ability to investigate and report the news.

Quote:
There is a very big difference between that and what has happened to the news in Russia with the presence of Putin. Or Iran and many of the other news sources you research for you arguments, which do little more than cast aspersions on the west.

Funny thing is, our press does the same thing! It's been nothing but a lap dog every time some President wants to go to war. The most ridiculous "aspersions" (allegations, accusations) pass muster and are duly printed in our press. When I look at our press and the English-language outlets of foreign press, they look remarkably similar.

Quote:

Um, I think the real point is that you've been caught too many times making positive assumptions, but just wrong ones. You have yet to show that either KIKI or I are wrong. What I get back from you is a lot of assumption-based emotion, but no analysis. Therefore, your assumptions remain undetected (by you).-signy

I find this amusing. You and 1kiki have yet to be right unless we are talking global warming. When it comes to the Ukraine, wrong.

Please see my predictions about Ukraine, and tell me how "wrong" I've been.

Quote:
When it comes to the Middle East, wrong.

Because Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria are NOT great smoking clusterfucks, thanks to our "interventions"?

Quote:
When it comes to America, wrong.

Because we have NOT become an oligarchy, where the will of the people is thwarted whenever it crosses the interests of the wealthy? Because there are people (like you) who conflate corporate interests with American interests?

Quote:
Your belief system is tainted by the negative brush you use to paint everything but your beloved Socialism.

If I believe in anything, it's looking at facts - even painf

SIGNYM

Thursday, August 7, 2014 8:22 PM

Quote:
The point you are trying to make is the one I just made - it's not about America, so why is a End of America site using it? That site is so close to info wars - I've pointed that out before, so still true. It's obvious she didn't just happen by it.

You're right. I found some facts, and I searched them together, and THAT particular article had all of them nicely tied together, in one. With quotes and sources, which would allow the INVESTIGATIVE person to check the sources and find more info. I could have posted and linked a half-dozen articles from more "acceptable" sources with the same info, but that site was more convenient.

I don't get your point. Either the information is true, or it isn't. It doesn't matter what's surrounding it. And BTW, that was the first time I've even been to that website, and most likely will be the last. So whatever you're trying to imply... well, I don't "get it". I just chalk it up to "yet another inexplicable reaction from G".

SIGNYM

Thursday, August 7, 2014 8:34 PM

MEANHILE

Quote:
With over 932 dead, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued its highest level alert for an all-hands on deck response to the crisis in West Africa (that is spreading across the world). While President Obama proclaimed we are prepared and itis "not easily transmitted," it appears that is not entirely true. Meanwhile, CDC Director Frieden's "deep concerns" have been confirmed as Nigeria’s health minister has declared a health emergency as the deadly Ebola virus gained a foothold in Africa’s most populous nation, according to news reports. Nigerian authorities moved quickly late Wednesday, gathering isolation tents as five more cases of the Ebola Virus were confirmed in Lagos (the world's 4th most populous city with 21 million people). Most international flights from West Africa are also now screening passengers.

As Yahoo reports, The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Wednesday issued its highest alert for an all-hands on deck response to the Ebola crisis in West Africa.

"Ops Center moved to Level 1 response to given the extension to Nigeria & potential to affect many lives," CDC chief Tom Frieden said on Twitter.

Level 1 is the highest on a 1-6 scale and signals that increased staff and resources will be devoted to the outbreak.

"Basically this activation allows us to pull resources from throughout the agency to respond to this," said CDC spokesman Tom Skinner. He said it was the first time since 2009 that the Level 1 alert had been issued. Back then it was in response to the outbreak of H1N1 flu.

As The Washington Post reports, Nigeria’s health minister has declared a health emergency as the deadly Ebola virus gained a foothold in Africa’s most populous nation, according to news reports.

“This is a national emergency. Everyone in the world today is at risk. The experience of Nigeria opens the eyes of the world,” Minister of Health Onyebuchi Chukwu told the country’s House of Representatives. Nigerian authorities moved quickly late Wednesday, gathering isolation tents as five more cases of the Ebola Virus were confirmed in Lagos, a city bursting with 21 million people.

All five people are believed to be health workers who had direct contact with one man traveling from Ebola-ridden Liberia to Nigeria — making this country the fourth now infiltrated by the deadly disease.

“Yesterday the first known Nigerian to die of Ebola was recorded,” Chukwu told reporters in Abuja on Wednesday. “This was one of the nurses that attended to the Liberian. The other five [newly confirmed] cases are being treated at an isolation ward.”

Idris said this is the time “for everyone to be vigilant, especially with regard to relating to people who are ill.”

As Bloomberg reports,

Most international airlines flying to West Africa in the grip of the deadly Ebola outbreak are counting on stepped-up passenger screening as they continue serving the region. Air France fliers in some cities must complete health questionnaires and be checked for symptoms, including an elevated temperature, before boarding cards are issued. Delta Air Lines Inc. said travelers are being checked at the airport in Monrovia, Liberia, one of the countries hit by Ebola. Only two airlines have suspended flights to West Africa so far, with British Airways opting yesterday to join Gulf carrier Emirates in pulling back.

U.S. carriers “that fly to the affected countries remain in steady contact with government agencies and health officials, and have procedures in place to monitor and quickly respond to potential health concerns,” said Victoria Day, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based Airlines for America trade group.

Barack Obama says that Ebola is "not something that is easily transmitted" and that everything is under control...

There is more panic-stricken commentary in the article, which may become true but isn't justified at the moment.

Also, Nigeria is going to portray th

THGRRI

Thursday, August 7, 2014 8:35 PM

I clicked on reply Sig, but reply to your newest(same old) post, I will not. It would be like a dog chasing it's tail. I made my point and do not feel the need to repeat myself.

SIGNYM

Thursday, August 7, 2014 8:41 PM

Quote:
I made my point and do not feel the need to repeat myself.

Because you can't actually refute anything I posted, with events that you can point to or demonstrate. I understand.

SIGNYM

Thursday, August 7, 2014 8:46 PM

Quote:
I am biased against liars and posers - whoever and wherever they are, US, Russia, RWED.

Me too!

There is a distinction that the english language makes difficult, and that is the distinction between telling "the truth" (corresponding to reality) and telling "the truth" (not lying). In one meaning, truth means corresponding to reality. In another sense, truth means sincerity, speaking from deep feelings.

We're not talking about the same kind of truth. But, in NEITHER sense am I telling a "lie".

SIGNYM

Thursday, August 7, 2014 8:48 PM

Now, can we get back to the discussion about Ebola?

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, August 8, 2014 3:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:

Actually Australia isn't Russia. And I'd still be distrustful. Would you trust that they would be forward and complete with any anti-government news? And because saying it 5 times is never enough around here: I am distrustful of all "news" outlets. They all have agendas.

Thanks for reminding me of that.

They are often accused by governments of being anti government, so that's kind of funny.

Yes, all news is inherintly biased, but being government funded doesn't necessarily make it more pro or anti government than a privately owned news source.

I give you Fox as an example of a blatantly biased news source.

THGRRI

Friday, August 8, 2014 4:37 AM

We also have a government funded station called(PBS) Public Broadcasting System. Or NPR, National Public Radio. I will let the conservatives explain because they enjoy them so much.

THGRRI

Friday, August 8, 2014 4:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by G:

Actually Australia isn't Russia. And I'd still be distrustful. Would you trust that they would be forward and complete with any anti-government news? And because saying it 5 times is never enough around here: I am distrustful of all "news" outlets. They all have agendas.

Thanks for reminding me of that.

They are often accused by governments of being anti government, so that's kind of funny.

Yes, all news is inherintly biased, but being government funded doesn't necessarily make it more pro or anti government than a privately owned news source.

I give you Fox as an example of a blatantly biased news source.

There's definite distinction between government run and gov funded, and certainly even more between either of those in Russia versus the same in AU.

Another update on freedom of speech in Russia:

https://twitter.com/NataliaAntonova
"According to @Izvestia - all access to public WiFi will now be regulated. Russians will have to input passport data in every cafe. OK, wow."

They took away their brie and now their wifi.... man, darker and darker.

Sounds wonderful....

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, August 8, 2014 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:

There's definite distinction between government run and gov funded, and certainly even more between either of those in Russia versus the same in AU.

Yeah there is, but that's not what you said earlier when you asked whether the ABC could be trusted to run anti government news. So perhaps you're getting clearer now.

Having seen snippets of American news, I can say that most of it appears to be SHOCKINGLY and ALARMINGLY biased in a way that is less common here. There seems to be a blurring between opinion and news, which often feels more distinct over here.

So it's no bad thing to look to different sources for information.

1KIKI

Friday, August 8, 2014 2:41 PM

You must be pro Russian. Or anti American. Or both. Commie jihadist scum.

You will never ever be allowed to claim any facts ever again that won't be dismissed out of hand because - well - who they think you are is more important than what the facts are.

Their agenda is all. Facts are nothing. Get used to it.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 8, 2014 6:51 PM

I had to chuckle at Obama and his unbelievable hubris...

Quote:

Parsing Obama's Answer on the Unfairness of Giving Ebola Serum to Americans Before Africans

"And the countries that have been affected are the first to admit that what's happened here is that their public health systems have been overwhelmed."

But he's not gonna stand up and say, "We're not gonna share it." He's gonna stand up and say they know they don't want it. They know enough to know that they don't know what to do with it. They know enough to know that their health care systems are so shoddy that they wouldn't be able to use it anyway. So he's hiding behind them. These three African countries, he's gonna deny it to 'em. But he wants everybody to believe that they are telling him that they don't want it. That's what that means. When you hear him say anything like this ever, "And they'll be the first to admit, these countries that have been affected by this, they'll be the first to admit that what's happened here is that they're a bunch of hellholes and they don't know what they're doing and they're not worth saving and they can't get this."

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/08/07/parsing_obama_s_answer_on
_the_unfairness_of_giving_ebola_serum_to_americans_before_africans

Obama never is at fault, for ANYTHING. Every time, it's someone else who isn't getting the job done, who is obstructing, or who can't even handle the very drugs that may help stop this epidemic. Gee, Obama would love for nothing more than to hand over boxes and boxes of the drugs , fly them there himself, if he only could. But they don't want it. They know better, so we'll just abide by their wishes. He flipped it onto them, where if this were Bush, the media would be going bonkers at the SELFISHNESS of white Americans, saving their own, but not caring enough to help black Africans.

SIGNYM

Friday, August 8, 2014 8:36 PM

Quote:

You must be pro Russian. Or anti American. Or both. Commie jihadist scum.

You will never ever be allowed to claim any facts ever again that won't be dismissed out of hand because - well - who they think you are is more important than what the facts are.

Their agenda is all. Facts are nothing. Get used to it.= KIKI

Are these quotes from THUGR from other threads? I confess, I find myself baffled. They seem to express THUGR's (or maybe G's) most ideological/ authoritarian moments, and they're very specific, but they're not from this thread.

THGRRI

Friday, August 8, 2014 8:44 PM

Quote:
….Magon
Having seen snippets of American news, I can say that most of it appears to be SHOCKINGLY and ALARMINGLY biased in a way that is less common here. There seems to be a blurring between opinion and news, which often feels more distinct over here.
So it's no bad thing to look to different sources for information.

I agree with using many sources to form a conclusion, but I found a Dutch reporters take on American global involvements interesting.

Throughout the earlier goings on with the downing of the airliner a reporter from the Netherlands appeared on some news shows here. I saw him several times. He explained how this tragedy was different because his country was used to sitting back in righteous indignation, while reporting about the United States and our involvements globally. The little guy poking the big guy with a stick if you will. He spoke about the Dutch having a seat at the big boy table for the first time because of the fact that half or so of the 300 people killed were from there. He was very honest about the fact that they had very little capacity to do anything and was much more supportive of America’s role globally. His smugness disappeared.

Europe loves to judge America while depending on us for their continued security. Many times in the past few months, even years I have heard reporters from Europe stating the world has felt leaderless because Obama was not taking a leadership role. He may be leading everywhere but if they disagree with his level of involvement they criticize endlessly and stand around scratching their heads as to what to do.

SIGNYM

Friday, August 8, 2014 8:49 PM

Quote:
Denmark having a seat at the big boy table for the first time because of the fact that half or so of the 300 people killed were from there.

I think you meant the Netherlands, commonly but incorrectly known here as "Holland".

THGRRI

Friday, August 8, 2014 8:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

You must be pro Russian. Or anti American. Or both. Commie jihadist scum.

You will never ever be allowed to claim any facts ever again that won't be dismissed out of hand because - well - who they think you are is more important than what the facts are.

Their agenda is all. Facts are nothing. Get used to it.= KIKI

Are these quotes from THUGR from other threads? I confess, I find myself baffled. They seem to express THURGR's (or maybe G's) most ideological/ authoritarian moments, and they're very specific, but they're not from this thread.

You are confused because that is what 1kiki does. She mixes up posts from others into her own and spews garbage off topic. In this case I do recognize this as a shot at me with the first part of a sentence mimicking a comment by me but the second half must be her. She always and I mean always suggests the other person ignores the facts even when she was just proven wrong. It's classic 1kiki.

SIGNYM

Friday, August 8, 2014 8:57 PM

Back to the topic of the thread....

WHO declares Ebola epidemic an international health emergency

Quote:
(Reuters) - West Africa's Ebola epidemic is an "extraordinary event" and now constitutes an international health risk, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Friday.

The Geneva-based U.N. health agency said the possible consequences of a further international spread of the outbreak, which has killed almost 1,000 people in four West African countries, were "particularly serious" in view of the virulence of the virus.

"A coordinated international response is deemed essential to stop and reverse the international spread of Ebola," the WHO said in a statement after a two-day meeting of its emergency committee on Ebola.

The declaration of an international emergency will have the effect of raising the level of vigilance on the virus.

"The outbreak is moving faster than we can control it," the WHO's director-general Margaret Chan told reporters on a telephone briefing from the WHO's Geneva headquarters.

"The declaration ... will galvanize the attention of leaders of all countries at the top level. It cannot be done by the ministries of health alone."

The agency said that, while all states with Ebola transmission - so far Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria and Sierra Leone - should declare a national emergency, there should be no general ban on international travel or trade.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-health-ebola-emergency-id
USKBN0G80M620140808

Ie quarantine the nations involved and let it burn itself out?

Quote:
After an experimental drug was administered to two U.S. charity workers who were infected in Liberia, Ebola specialists urged the WHO to offer such drugs to Africans. The U.N. agency has asked medical ethics experts to explore this option next week. [ID:nL6N0QB5UH]

The real issue is intellectual property. The company investigating the effectiveness of this drug ("forsythia" in the movie "Contagion") clearly can't produce enough for the need, but other companies can... if they're given the formula on how to make it. If there were some kind of deal reached- give us the formula to use for six months, and we'll be doing on-the-ground tests for your use later - then the relationship could be mutually beneficial.

THGRRI

Friday, August 8, 2014 9:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Denmark having a seat at the big boy table for the first time because of the fact that half or so of the 300 people killed were from there.
I think you meant the Netherlands, commonly but incorrectly known here as "Holland".

The Dutch, Netherlands yes, I stand corrected.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, August 9, 2014 5:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:

Your first post, you said "actually" as if to correct my assertion that Gov influenced news was not to be trusted. You cited Aussie ABC. To me, that was not an equivalent, so I felt I needed to make distinctions even further - I wouldn't think I'd have to point out the differences between Russia & Aus, or between funded and controlled, but clarity is good.
Fox is horrible, it is known. They invented the "bias posing as news" format as far as I can tell. It's worse on our radio. If you have never listened to Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh then you have not heard just how bad it can be. Both of these people have a mind blowing number of listeners and their message is basically the same every day: "Obama Sucks!" I can only listen for a few minutes before it's just too much to take. If you REALLY want to hear how bad it can be, I suggest you have a quick listen.

A lot of countries have government run stations - they're not all bad. Sometimes that assertion gets made that they are nothing but big propaganda machines spewing lies. I was trying to assert that that is not always the case, nor is the opposite true that privately run agengies are automatically paragons of newsworthy virtue. I dont have anything to say about Russian news sites, not being places that I have visited, so they may have be more of less on a par with some of the US/ENglish sites which are pretty poor. In which case, referring to them as alternate source of information is no worse than referring to the Daily Mail, or Fox or any other news source frequently quoted on these boards.

I have had the misfortunue to listen/watch a few brief moments of Limbaugh and he sounds pretty insane. We have a few shock jocks here who get a bit of air time, but they tend to be agent provacateurs in the media world. I understand that is there role, to provoke an extreme response. That shoulld be different to the news. What's kind of shocked me about news in the US is how much opinion there is in there, newsreaders making partisan comments. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the concept of'news' over there.

Apart from the government run ABC and SBS news, the commercial channel news is for the lowest common denominator here. 20 minutes of sport, 20 of car crashes and murders and a snippet on world news if it is sensational enough. It's a waste of eye fluid.

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 9, 2014 9:25 PM

Quote:
You obviously aren't comprehending (or reading my posts) - thanks you. The fact that those are Kiki's words makes it all the more funny. Wait for it... wait for Kiki to come in and spin her post to deflect her intentions. What really seems to have galled her is my belief that you shouldn't trust government controlled media. That's how absurd her line of thinking is.

G, your post is incomprehensible.

Also, I DO read and understand your posts. What I find, however, is that while you SAY you don't trust any news sources, you make it a feature of your posts ... totally trusting some sources and totally rejecting others. And it just wigs you out when others (such as myself) don't trust who you trust and reject who you reject. You get quite frothy about it. You're really source-oriented, not reality-oriented. So I don't know if you noticed how hypocritical you are? But you say one thing and do another almost all of the time, which makes your posts conflicted.

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 9, 2014 9:48 PM

The WHO website is nearly inscrutable. However, I found this, which is interesting

http://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/disease/ebola/en/

Each report, they indicate the new cases that have been reported in the interim. You have to take into account that the reporting periods are uneven - anywhere from 2 to 5 days - but then you can look at the approximate number of new cases per day.

It would a "trend" of only one point so far, but the last reporting period showed a lower "new case per day" than the two previous reporting periods.

It is thought that Ebola is under-reported by a factor of 5 to 10. (Heard some of that in an interview, I'll try to re-find that link.)

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:19 AM

But then you get all wigged out by a source that I linked because of OTHER articles in it, because of the adverts next to it, because of the name of the site itself, when everything in that article could actually be traced back to other (what YOU would consider to be) "more credible" sources.

The reality is that you reject certain pieces of information, not because it doesn't make sense or provide any insight or can't be verified but JUST because of where it came from. And you accept information the same way.

When I posted the pictures of the victims in the Odessa Trades Union building, pictures which were too detailed to fake and which had a wealth of probative information, backed up by videos taken from multiple sources outside of the building, I got a ration of shit for posting PICTURES! Pictures with lines and circles drawn on them!

REALLY???

Also, you will notice that I almost never link to RT, so why the fuck do you keep bringing it up? What is wrong with you? You keep flogging a horse that's not dead, it doesn't even exist. You have this idee fixe - I can't tell if you really believe it yourself, or if you're trying out your skills of innuendo and strawmanning.

Finally, I've actually been pretty successful at predicting what's going to happen next.... certainly, much more than you, with all of your so-called caution about sources.

Afghanistan? Check
The collapse of Iraq? Check
The 2008 financial collapse? Check!

I think you wouldn't accept that gravity existed if a street-corner bum told you about it. You'd sniff his clothes and shut your ears, despite the fact that items reliably fall downwards.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:34 AM

Quote:
In crisis situations, rumour mills – long a prominent feature of daily life in Nigeria – take on a frenetic urgency. Add the push and reach of social media and the impact grows exponentially. The least any responsible government can do is make available accurate and credible information.

Yet when I attended a briefing by senior officials of the Lagos state government on the rising threat of the deadly Ebola virus in Africa’s most populated city yesterday, I found journalists struggling to confirm exactly how many lives had been affected by the outbreak so far.

The Lagos commissioner put the total number of confirmed cases (including fatalities) at eight, but the number released earlier in the day by the federal authorities in Abuja, Nigeria’s capital, seven hundred kilometres away, was seven.

Given that the number victims of the worst Ebola outbreak in history had risen to at least 932 across four countries, according to the World Health Organisation, some might say a difference of one is a modest discrepancy.

But I imagine that not a few minds in the press briefing audience silently toyed with this thought: if there are two different figures, it must mean that at least one is wrong. And if one is wrong, then both could easily be wrong. If both are wrong, what else might be wrong?

A similar, albeit much worse scenario comes to mind. In the nine weeks it took Nigeria’s federal government to officially determine and announce the exact number of schoolgirls kidnapped by terrorists in northern Nigeria in April, several conflicting figures emerged. The profusion of different numbers permitted one false view to gain currency – the suggestion that perhaps it was all fiction, there were no girls missing, and the alleged abduction was a ruse meant to embarrass Nigeria’s president in front of the world.

Ten years ago, a number of Muslim-dominated states in northern Nigeria suspended polio vaccination programmes, alleging that the vaccines were a western strategy to render Muslim girls infertile. It took great effort by the federal government and the international community to mount an information campaign that would convince state governments and residents of those states that the rumours were false. By then of course the damage had been done – a sharp rise in polio infection rates followed.

Today, religion still holds great power in shaping crisis narratives. In response to the news that a Liberian man had brought the Ebola virus to Nigeria, a Pentecostal preacher took to Facebook to post a message claiming that “at the Name of Jesus, Ebola will bow out!”

The post drew loud condemnation, causing the preacher to add a clarification, insisting that he was “not in anyway an attempting to deny the existence of the virus in Nigeria, or to encourage anyone to seek interaction with the virus.”

But there was also strong support as well, for his views. One commenter posted: “God is not man, believe Him, He will defend His words.” Since then I’ve sighted at least one similar message circulating on mobile phones, saying that “Jesus brings life, Ebola brings death. Choose life!!!

In Liberia, where more than 300 people have been infected in the Ebola outbreak, President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf this week called for a three-day stint of fasting and prayer to ask for divine intervention against the disease.

The implications are obvious. If Ebola victims choose to believe that the solution to Ebola actually lies in churches, mosques or with traditional healers (which, in the absence of a medical cure, is not such a farfetched scenario), they will flock to these places in search of healing, dramatically raising the chances of an outbreak of a real epidemic.

In the earlier stages of the outbreak, confusion about the origins of the disease combined with distrust of Western medical intervention to trigger anger and mass protests in Sierra Leone. Some relatives of victims kidnapped their loved ones from hospital, apparently in an attempt to offer them better treatment at home from traditional healers.

Go

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:04 AM

So don't you think the 'my sources and more trustworthy than your sources' argument has been kind of thrashed to death now?

1KIKI

Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:27 AM

G's focus on 'sources' rather than facts strikes me as quintessential RWA.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
G's focus on 'sources' rather than facts strikes me as quintessential RWA.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

Actually G has shown his search for the truth no's no Ideologies. As for me I see every debate you engage in has you accusing the other "so you don't believe in facts then". For a while now the debate about who posts bull here has been solved 1kiki and it's you.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 10, 2014 12:22 PM

Quote:
You linked to a "End of America" web site as providing definitive information - "REALLY???" You really trust those obvious nut job sites?

No, I don't trust those websites and I don't expect you to, either. I DO expect you to validate the information using background knowledge, search routines, and your powers of observation and reason.

Quote:
You really trust that just because they cite Reuters that they haven't manipulated the info?

Actually, I DID check Reuters, and I expected you to do the same.

Quote:
I don't trust any media outlet, but

Well, you can stop right there. Do you know what "No... but" means? It means Yes". So, what you're saying is... I don't trust any media outlet but - yes, I do trust some.

I know what you're going to say: There are different levels of trust. That some sites are just more "reliable" than others. That you're not really "trusting", it's just based on your "experience", some sites are just more consistent.

Save your breath. According to you, there's no way to tell what's really going on, no way to predict the future, and therefore no way to judge whether a news source is reflecting reality or not. So all you have to go on is whether news sources agree with other mainstream sites, as far as I can tell.

Quote:
It wasnt necessarily for you, not everything is for you.
It builds a picture of the Russian press and what their civilians are being told. I would think you might be interested in that.

RT in English is definitely NOT for Russian audiences. Because Russian audiences don't read English, correct? So ... what's your point?

Quote:
Christ, you keep coming back to "I predicted..." get over yourself. These are real events affecting real people and you keep wanting brownie points for guessing. You are so far removed and safe you act like they only exist to help you prove what a brilliant person you are. It's not about you - do you get that?

No, of course it's NOT about me, altho you somehow keep making it that way!

Do you know anything about the scientific method? Prediction is at the heart of demonstrating whether a hypothesis is false, Here are predictions, based on hypotheses:

If you drop an apple, it will fall down.
NASA calculates where a planet will be next year.
A designed molecule should have a desired effect on a bacterium.
This economy will collapse in one year.
A quantum particle should exist with these specific properties.
The next species examined should show similar progression in evolutionary development.
Earthquakes occur where crustal plates collide.
Tomorrow will be warm and sunny.
The earth's temperature will rise 2 deg C in 20 years.

To the extent that a predictive model reflects reality, its predictions will be accurate. The use of predictions is to test the strength of the model. When I point out that my predictions HAVE come true (despite your insistence that nothing of the sort can be done) I'm simply trying to tell you that the models that I use are consistent enough with reality to be somewhat reliable. Where they fail is where they need to be corrected.

If you're at all interested in the assumptions and processes used for predictions (although I doubt it) I'd be happy to discuss them.

--------------
THUGR is a tyrant-loving pro-jihadist.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 10, 2014 12:24 PM

Quote:
So don't you think the 'my sources and more trustworthy than your sources' argument has been kind of thrashed to death now?

TOTALLY!

--------------
THUGR is a tyrant-loving pro-jihadist.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:00 PM

To read how some here claim they are not using unreliable sources is laughable. I will predict here and now it will take no time at all, for them to post opinions gathered from these propaganda sites they deny quoting. It is remarkable to me how in the last two months or so they have spewed the lies and misinformation coming from these sources to us who have been debating them, only to watch them be allowed to make an argument they do not. Bullshit….G, we have been seeing them follow the story lines coming from these news sources and pointing it out as we go. What’s to argue about? There is no discussion to be had. It is what they do and for them to say otherwise fits their profile and style of posting.

I will give you a hint. Whatever geopolitical policies the west and our allies pursue they will be countering with policies coming from the East. In order for them to learn what those policies are they will resource these corrupted news sources. Let’s not forget they post links to sites that if you follow them and read the story, you will see it does not say what they claim at all. Does that ring a bell with anyone here? They don’t even represent what we say to them accurately. Does that ring a bell with anyone here? Ever have to say I did not say that read it again? I don’t care what Sig or 1kiki posts about being fair. They are not even fair and honest in what they say about what we posted. Give me a break…..

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:10 PM

THUGR, you still don't get it, do you?

Huh. How can I make this pellucidly clear? This has been the pattern of our so-called discussions since they started:

"America has created great smoking clusterfucks in the mideast"- SIGNY
"You just hate America"- THUGR

"You can't develop a nation with bombs"- SIGNY
"You're a Russian-lover"- THUGR

"America shipped arms to jihdists"- SIGNY
"You're unpatriotic"- THUGR

"Here is a list of nations where we overthrew democracies and installed tyrannies"- SIGNY
"You just hate America" -THUGER

You never actually address the points that are being made. Instead, you derail the discussion using personal attacks. I think MAGONS said it best

Quote:
BTW Ad hominem means to attack the man (or woman) rather than address the argument. It doesn't mean you are right or wrong, but you've chosen to get personal rather than discuss the subject.

You use ad hominens and they're a well-recognized rhetorical trick around these parts. So welcome to the land of ad-hominems! I'll be bringing out several of them so you can try them on for size. After all, if you're not playing fair, why should I?

--------------
THUGR is a jarhead.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:12 PM

G

Quote:
I read your entire post thinking it was pretty well reasoned

So, I take it you agree with me?

Quote:
and then I get to the end and you add: "THUGR is a tyrant-loving pro-jihadist." That just takes the cake.

Or is this your attempt to run away, by objecting to something you never objected to from THUGR? (See above) Because (pssst!) your bias is showing.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 10, 2014 10:17 PM

Sig, I point to your motivations instead of what you post because your motivations fuel your preconceptions. Those preconceptions lead you to peruse false interpretations of the facts put forth by propaganda news sites and to misrepresent what it says at reliable sites. Just as you misrepresent what I and others say here in response to your posts.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 10, 2014 10:32 PM

THUGR: I point to your motivations instead of what you post because your motivations fuel your preconceptions. Those preconceptions lead you to peruse false interpretations of the facts put forth by propaganda news sites and to misrepresent what it says at reliable sites. Just as you misrepresent what I and others say here in response to your posts. And the reason WHY you misinterpret so heavily is because....

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 10, 2014 10:35 PM

I don't think so Sig...

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 10, 2014 10:37 PM

I don't think so, THUGR.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 10, 2014 10:48 PM

It is sad how you have lost the ability to speak for yourself so you are left with cutting and pasting my words to make your points. 1kiki does that as well.

Very sad indeed.

1KIKI

Monday, August 11, 2014 1:03 AM

"You mean my repeated suggestions not to trust any source?"

No, it's that you say one thing and do another. When Kiev says that Russia is attacking across the border and it's posted from WashPost - do you object? When Mal4 repeatedly posted 'facts' from Sky News (facts which were not found anywhere else) did you object? When Signy posted irrefitable videos from Odessa, did you accept them?

Your mistrust, which you claim to wield fairly, is exquisitely selective. If you agree with an item, you accept it whole cloth, source and facts be damned. If you have any kind of personal itch about an item - you don't like the facts or the source - no amount of validity will move you.

Anyway, believe it or not, I have a life. And it doesn't include spending endless amounts of time on people who are so comfortable with their biases they don't even know they have them.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Monday, August 11, 2014 1:06 AM

Your repeated suggestions not to trust any source comes directly from G. You saying it when the facts show you do not practice what you preach is funny and does not go unnoticed by the myself and hopefully others here as well.

The rest is you accusing others of posting as you do which is even funnier. It's called bait and switch.

THGRRI

Monday, August 11, 2014 2:04 AM

Are you paying attention Magon?

Quote:
….1kiki
"You mean my repeated suggestions not to trust any source?"

Taking what G says and adapting it as her own as though that is what she has always been about, even though we know this to be false.

Quote:
….1kiki
When Kiev says that Russia is attacking across the border and it's posted from WashPost - do you object?

Meaningless and subjective. No prof to suggest Kiev was the only source the Washington Post relied on, if what 1kiki says about the story existing is even true. If it is it may have followed a statement put out by our State Department or may even have been confirmed by other sources. At any rate it maybe near impossible to go back and refute. Meaningless…and what she will post as not being answered in her follow up post. "So you refuse to answer what I said or so you admit not believing the truth". Is what she will follow with.

Quote:
….1kiki
No, it's that you say one thing and do another. When Mal4 repeatedly posted 'facts' from Sky News (facts which were not found anywhere else) did you object? When Signy posted irrefitable videos from Odessa, did you accept them?

More of the same including a bait and switch. She suggests G says one thing and does another. This is what she does not G. The rest is subjective again. No information that suggests if G even responded to these posts. If he did we know 1kiki takes things out of context. So again without some sort of reference to refer to, just more useless information she will insist was not answer in her next post. Why Magon would anyone respond to it? It is to be ignored. Chris are you reading this? Do you get it?

Quote:
….1kiki
Your mistrust, which you claim to wield fairly, is exquisitely selective. If you agree with an item, you accept it whole cloth, source and facts be damned. If you have any kind of personal itch about an item - you don't like the facts or the source - no amount of validity will move you.

G being exquisitely selective about believing only what suits him should be recognized by all familiar with his posts as being not true. I would point out as well that if anyone here has an itch to scratch it is Sig and 1kiki. They keep starting threads trying to do just that. Scratch that itch.
You have been posting here for much longer than I Magon. You should recognize this as accurate.

Quote:
…kiki
Anyway, believe it or not, I have a life. And it doesn't include spending endless amounts of time on people who are so comfortable with their biases they don't even know they have them anymore.

And again, accusing others of what she has been shown to be. Falsely asserting she is right and moves on. Classic 1kiki, and that Magon is where (you're) focus should be. On the person, what is it they are doing and how are they doing it. If they did not have an agenda then a true discussion would ensue. With this one it is impossible.

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:19 AM

Quote:

Are you paying attention Magon? Taking what G says and adapting it as her own as though that is what she has always been about, even though "we" know this to be false.

Talking to yourself again?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:27 AM

From the World Health Organization

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2014_08_08_ebola/en/

Reporting.....New
period .......Cases ....Deaths
AUG 12-13.....152 ......76
AUG 10-11 ....128 ......56
AUG 7-9 ......69........52
AUG 5-6 ......68 .......29
AUG 2-4 ......108 ......45
Jul 31-AUG 1..163.......61
JUL 24-27.....122.......57
JUL 21-23.....108.......12
JUL 18-20.....45........28

I can't correct the formatting, so I hope this is clear. It looks like the new cases dipped in early August but shot up again, almost matching the peak in late July.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

1KIKI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 11:04 PM

Those are interesting statistics. I woudn't know the mechanism(s) that led to them.

As for new reports, it was splashed all over the news that the WHO said Ebola numbers are vastly underestimated. But then, they always are. People go back to their isolated villages, which are then wiped out without accounting. Even in 'normal' times where there are no known outbreaks, it's assumed there are minor outbreaks that decimate entire isolated villages that go undetected. Is this outbreak MORE vastly underestimated than normal? Hard to say.

So, the usual msm outlets in the US reported both that it was vastly underestimated, but then also quickly reported that Médecins Sans Frontières estimated the outbreak would be controlled in up to 6 months. ? http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/08/15/who-to
ll-of-ebola-outbreak-has-been-vastly-underestimated/ is a pretty good example.

English language al Jazeera reported similarly but more completely.

The Guardian put a whole different angle on it - far more alarmist. http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/aug/15/ebola-outbre
ak-vastly-underestimated-world-health-organisation "has been vastly underestimated and will require “extraordinary measures, on a massive scale” if it is to be contained, the World Health Organisation has warned. The admission came as Médecins sans Frontières (MSF), the medical charity, said the disease was spreading “faster than we can respond to”, and accused the WHO of being too slow to react." and "MSF, which warned almost a month ago that the outbreak was already “out of control”, issued a bleak assessment of the situation on Friday. “It is deteriorating faster – and moving faster – than we can respond to,” said Joanne Liu, MSF international president. “It is like wartime.”"

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:33 PM

Both India and China have a lot of nationals in western Africa.

Kenya is a hub of transportation which connects west Africa to places farther east. Kenya has one of the largest slums in the world (Kibera).

*waits for news*

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 22, 2014 5:55 PM

In case anyone is wondering, the 2 patients who were flown back to the US for treatment have fully recovered and were released from Emory Hospital yesterday.

Far less media attention has been spent on them walking out of the hospital than was given to them being brought.

2 wins for the good guys.

SIGNYM

Friday, August 22, 2014 7:33 PM

Dates............new.......deaths
Aug 14 to 16....125 .......99
Aug 17 to 19 ...221*.......106

* Highest "new case" count so far. Everyone, including WHO, agrees that these counts are greatly underreported. Fortunately this isn't a new kind of Ebola, just the old kind of Ebola with an R of about 1.5. Unfortunately, it's the old kind of Ebola in a new kind of (urban slum) setting.

Entire neighborhoods and villages are being cordoned off. Food isn't getting in. Society is breaking down. None of this is widely reported.

We should start a betting pool on when this will turn around and how many deaths will occur before this ends. (Estimated actual deaths, not just WHO-reported ones.) Medicins sans Frontiere's guess is about six months on the duration, and my guess on the deaths is tens of thousands. Any takers?

--------------

Yes, RAPPY, one for the good guys. In looking up Ebola, it seems that people don't actually bleed to death ... most victims don't develop hemorrhagic symptoms anyway... but die from lost blood pressure and organ failure. Sounds more like sepsis-type symptoms. With sufficient supportive care... infusions, vasopressors etc ... many more people could survive.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 30, 2014 10:03 PM

The video shows how Ebola might have spread from bushmeat to humans, but right now the only vector is human-to-human. Lack of health care, general filth and squalor, and lack of education are creating a threat of potential worldwide proportions.

But that's what happens when you trample on your nation's poor in order to suck up more wealth. Sooner or later, it comes to bite you- either in the form of epidemic, or economic collapse, or revolution.

I was talking about Ebola with Rue (some of you may remember). We were discussing a paper which tracked the many genetic changes that this virus has demonstrated, just since the beginning of this particular outbreak.

One of the points that Rue brought up, while noticing the lower death rate, is that a very "hot" virus which kills its hosts quickly is subject to genetic pressure to be not quite so deadly. Because variants which drop the victim on the spot never have a chance to spread. OTOH, viruses in the milieu of a crowded urban environment would seem to have an open pathway towards becoming more transmissible. In other words, those variants which survive longer in the air or on common surfaces would be selected for reproduction.

So maybe while the original kind of Ebola was NOT a new kind of Ebola, maybe it's becoming a new kind of Ebola during this epidemic. This has implications not only for the epidemic itself, but also for vaccines and other immunological treatments being developed.

Ebola hits fifth W. African state as Senegal confirms first case

Quote:
Dakar (AFP) - The Ebola epidemic that has killed more than 1,500 people across West Africa spread to a fifth country in the region on Friday with the first confirmed case of the deadly virus in Senegal.

The case marks the first time a new country has been hit by the outbreak since July and comes a day after the World Health Organization warned the number of infections was increasing rapidly....

Senegal's health ministry said the country's first Ebola patient was a young Guinean man who was immediately quarantined at a Dakar hospital, where he was in a "satisfactory condition".

The man is believed to have been infected in Guinea's capital Conakry, and may have travelled to Senegal before Dakar closed its land border with Guinea on August 21.

Authorities are now scrabbling to piece together where he went and who he encountered, in a bid to halt the spread of the deadly virus.

http://news.yahoo.com/senegal-reports-first-case-ebola-health-ministry
-130949860.html

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

1KIKI

Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:09 AM

So far Ebola is still the same old Ebola in one very important way - it's not airborne.

But this epidemic has the chance of becoming unlike any other in modern history. According to recent publications, it could spread worldwide into megacities - and I'll add, their superslums. Myself, a source at USC and Signy just came up with a very incomplete list - Mumbai, Rio, Mexico City, Johannesburg, Dhaka, Manila, and Jakarta. There is nothing I can think of that makes those superslums any different from Liberia.

Can you imagine Ebola in Mexico City? From there it would inevitably cross into the US population. It might then take root in our most disadvantaged areas. Which are only a car ride away from the population as a whole.

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/r0-ebola/
The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings: Act Now or Regret It
By Maryn McKenna | 09.14.14 | 12:07 pm

The Ebola epidemic in Africa has continued to expand since I last wrote about it, and as of a week ago, has accounted for more than 4,200 cases and 2,200 deaths in five countries: Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal and Sierra Leone. That is extraordinary: Since the virus was discovered, no Ebola outbreak’s toll has risen above several hundred cases. This now truly is a type of epidemic that the world has never seen before. In light of that, several articles were published recently that are very worth reading.

The most arresting is a piece published last week http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20894 in the journal Eurosurveillance, which is the peer-reviewed publication of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (the EU’s Stockholm-based version of the US CDC). The piece is an attempt to assess mathematically how the epidemic is growing, by using case reports to determine the “reproductive number.” (Note for non-epidemiology geeks: The basic reproductive number — usually shorted to R0 or “R-nought” — expresses how many cases of disease are likely to be caused by any one infected person. An R0 of less than 1 means an outbreak will die out; an R0 of more than 1 means an outbreak can be expected to increase. If you saw the movie Contagion, this is what Kate Winslet stood up and wrote on a whiteboard early in the film.)(my note: briefly considering it, I can't think of any mathematical expression that will allow for a geometric increase rather than an exponential one.)

The Eurosurveillance paper, by two researchers from the University of Tokyo and Arizona State University, attempts to derive what the reproductive rate has been in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone. (Note for actual epidemiology geeks: The calculation is for the effective reproductive number, pegged to a point in time, hence actually Rt.) They come up with an R of at least 1, and in some cases 2; that is, at certain points, sick persons have caused disease in two others.

You can see how that could quickly get out of hand, and in fact, that is what the researchers predict. Here is their stop-you-in-your-tracks assessment:

In a worst-case hypothetical scenario, should the outbreak continue with recent trends, the case burden could gain an additional 77,181 to 277,124 cases by the end of 2014.

That is a jaw-dropping number.

The epidemic curves of the Ebola epidemic; look especially at the line for Liberia. From Nishiura and Chowell.

What should we do with information like this? At the end of last week, two public health experts published warnings that we need to act urgently in response.

First, Dr. Richard E. Besser: He is now the chief health editor of ABC News, but earlier was acting director of the US CDC, including during the 2009-10 pandemic of H1N1 flu; so, someone who understands what it takes to stand up a public-health response to an epidemic

1KIKI

Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:46 AM

bump

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:21 PM

Just a few comments...

A few weeks ago, when the UN (CDC?) was predicting the ultimate number of cases, my brain took up the task and guessed "hundreds of thousands" and possibly more. I really don't see a natural end to this epidemic.... it could conceivably continue in slums/impoverished megacities throughout the world until every vulnerable person was infected and half had died. Millions. Hundreds of millions. Maybe even billions. When THEY were at the time touting 20,000 I assumed I must be wrong.

This is like global warming: it's easy to deny a mathematical certainty as long as the denier is personally comfortable. It's not until danger is literally at the doorstep that many people actually react, and by then it's too late.

And what is the USA sending??? Doctors? Nurses? Protective gear? Field tents? Infusion solutions and vasopressors? Bleach?
NOPE!
Soldiers!
Because, yanno, no good crisis should be ignored as an oppty to place American soldiers on every square mile of foreign soil!
Yeesh.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, September 19, 2014 2:31 PM

Quote:

The UN security council has called the Ebola outbreak "a threat to international peace and security" and urged the world to provide health experts, field hospitals and medical supplies.

A resolution adopted unanimously by the UN's most powerful body at an emergency meeting with an unprecedented 130 countries as co-sponsors reflected the rising global concern at the outbreak.

It was only the second time that the security council has addressed a public health emergency, the first being the HIV/Aids pandemic.

The UN health chief, Dr Margaret Chan, said the "deadly and dreaded Ebola virus got ahead of us" and it was time to urgently catch up.

"This is likely the greatest peacetime challenge that the United Nations and its agencies have ever faced," she said.

The UN secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, said the number of Ebola cases was doubling every three weeks. He called for a 20-fold increase in aid totalling almost $1bn (£600m) to tackle the crisis over the next six months.

Ban said the largest outbreak of Ebola in history "demands the attention of the world" and "unprecedented" action.

The UN is leading the global response to contain and eradicate Ebola and Ban announced that he was establishing a UN emergency mission to tackle the growing challenge.

He thanked the US president, Barack Obama, for sending 3,000 troops to provide expertise in logistics, training and engineering. He also credited about 20 other countries which have responded with contributions and urged all nations coming to the UN general assembly ministerial meeting next week to follow suit.

After the emergency UN meeting, Dr Joanne Liu, the international president of Médecins Sans Frontières, said: "MSF welcomes the emergency Ebola meeting of the UN security council.

"We call on member states and others to follow the lead of countries who have committed to join the fight against Ebola. We need concrete action on the ground now.

"Speed is of the essence. Although dangerously late, the pledges such as those of the US and UK are ambitious, but they must be implemented now. We do not have months or even weeks to wait. Thousands of lives are at stake. Other countries must commit to deploying assets and staff to the affected region as soon as possible.

"We are in uncharted waters. It is impossible to predict if the current pledges are enough because we do not know how the situation will degenerate in the coming weeks.

"There is no response too large. Flexibility to adapt to this unpredictable situation is paramount. Field hospitals, trained staff and coordination are desperately needed bring Ebola under control. Today."

The security council encouraged the governments of Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea to accelerate the rapid diagnosis and isolation of suspected Ebola cases and launch public education campaigns about the virus. It also encouraged the three governments "to continue efforts to resolve and mitigate the wider political, security and humanitarian dimensions of the Ebola outbreak".

The resolution addresses the "detrimental effect" of the isolation of the affected countries, especially on their economies. It calls for the lifting of travel and border restrictions, a resumption of shipping and air service to the affected countries and increased efforts to deliver health workers and supplies.

Jackson Niamah, a team leader for MSF at a treatment centre in the Liberian capital, Monrovia, told the council by videoconference that there were not enough centres and beds. People "are sitting at the gates of our centres, literally begging for their lives" and "are dying at our front door", he said.

"They rightly feel alone, neglected, denied left to die a horrible, undignified death," Naimah said. "We are failing the sick because there is not enough help on the ground. If the international community does not stand up, we will be wiped out."[/quote

SIGNYM

Friday, September 19, 2014 11:05 PM

An effective response to the epidemic would require billions, possibly hundreds of billions, not statements by the UN.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns. But by god, we keep trying!

AURAPTOR

Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:59 PM

Geeze...

Eight bodies found after attack on Guinea Ebola education team

Quote:

"The eight bodies were found in the village latrine. Three of them had their throats slit," Damantang Albert Camara told Reuters by telephone in Conakry.

However, Guinea's Prime Minister Mohamed Saïd Fofana, speaking in a television message that had been recorded earlier, said 7 bodies of 9 missing people had been found.

He said six people have been arrested following the incident, which took place on Tuesday in Wome, a village close to the town of Nzerekore, in Guinea's southeast, where Ebola was first identified in March.

Since then the virus has killed some 2,630 people and infected at least 5,357 people, according to World Health Organization (WHO), mostly in Guinea, neighbouring Sierra Leone and Liberia. It has also spread to Senegal and Nigeria.

Authorities in the region are faced with widespread fears, misinformation and stigma among residents of the affected countries, complicating efforts to contain the highly contagious disease.

Fofana said the team that included local administrators, two medical officers, a preacher and three accompanying journalists, was attacked by a hostile stone-throwing crowd from the village when they tried to inform people about Ebola.

He said it was regrettable that the incident occurred as the international community was mobilising to help countries struggling to contain the disease.

(Reporting by Saliou Samb; Writing by Bate Felix; Editing by Robin Pomeroy and Ken Wills)

1KIKI

Monday, September 22, 2014 12:08 AM

... it could conceivably continue in slums/impoverished megacities throughout the world until every vulnerable person was infected ...

IF it got into the megacities, I think every person would be vulnerable. I can think of no barrier between the people in the superslums and everyone else.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

AURAPTOR

Monday, September 22, 2014 5:13 AM

But Ebola isn't airborne, so why should it spread so easily ?

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, September 22, 2014 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
But Ebola isn't airborne, so why should it spread so easily ?

From the World Health Organisation

Quote:
Ebola then spreads through human-to-human transmission via direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and with surfaces and materials (e.g. bedding, clothing) contaminated with these fluids.

Health-care workers have frequently been infected while treating patients with suspected or confirmed EVD. This has occurred through close contact with patients when infection control precautions are not strictly practiced.

Burial ceremonies in which mourners have direct contact with the body of the deceased person can also play a role in the transmission of Ebola.

People remain infectious as long as their blood and body fluids, including semen and breast milk, contain the virus. Men who have recovered from the disease can still transmit the virus through their semen for up to 7 weeks after recovery from illness.

Symptoms of Ebola virus disease

The incubation period, that is, the time interval from infection with the virus to onset of symptoms is 2 to 21 days. Humans are not infectious until they develop symptoms. First symptoms are the sudden onset of fever fatigue, muscle pain, headache and sore throat. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, symptoms of impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding (e.g. oozing from the gums, blood in the stools). Laboratory findings include low white blood cell and platelet counts and elevated liver enzymes.

Unless you consider WHO apart of some socialist world conspiracy and an unreliable source?

AURAPTOR

Monday, September 22, 2014 8:41 PM

Well , I do, but that's another issue.

1KIKI

Monday, September 22, 2014 10:10 PM

Thanks Magons, but rappy is a troll and I wasn't going to respond.

And I don't think rappy quite understands how deeply our economy depends on the underclass - for our fast food, Tyson chickens, gas station help, Walmart greeters, child and nursing care, vegetables and tidy lawns - among other things. 'Those' people aren't 'there' somewhere, they're here, with 'us'. But he doesn't see 'them' or how much contact the 'rest of us' have with 'them'. If he did, he wouldn't be so confused as to how Ebola could spread from 'them' to 'us'.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, September 23, 2014 1:59 AM

yes, 1kiki. The underclass, like children, should be seen, but not heard.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, October 1, 2014 3:09 AM

EBOLA !! IT'S HERE !!!!

Texas patient confirmed as first Ebola case diagnosed in US

DALLAS – A Texas man just back from West Africa has been confirmed as having the first case of Ebola to be diagnosed in the U.S.

Authorities with the Centers for Disease Control revealed the finding Tuesday, a day after the unidentified patient arrived at a Dallas hospital with suspicious symptoms.

Officials at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas put the man into “strict isolation” and sent a specimen to the CDC in Atlanta for testing.

The CDC said preliminary results show the man has the deadly disease which has been linked to more than 3,000 recent deaths in Africa. According to the World Health Organization, there have been more than 6,500 cases confirmed in Africa, with Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone among the hardest hit.

Dr. Christopher Perkins with the Dallas County health department told reporters that the Texas man didn’t start showing symptoms until he arrived home.

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-patient-confirmed-as-first-ebola-case-diag
nosed-in-us-205031312.html

AURAPTOR

Friday, October 3, 2014 9:37 AM

So, it would seem the news industry is really amping up the fear mongering of Ebola.

Local big time radio station here in town devoted a full hour this afternoon to discuss the ' epidemic ' of 1 in Texas.

Casual references to our govt and the CDC and P not telling the public " the WHOLE story ", and that it's inevitable for more cases to crop up here in the states, and soon.

In fact, there may already have been " undocumented " cases, but we're not being told about it yet.

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Not yet, at least.

There IS the matter of how the doctors in Africa, those TRAINED and who took precautions to avoid this very thing in the first place got infected. There's been speculation, but I've not heard anyone come out and declare for certain we know how they got sick in the first place.

Sit and wait. That's what I'm gonna do. If patient zero hasn't infected anyone else, then I guess the hype was a bit premature.

If , however, anyone else in the patients sphere of contact DOES get sick... eghads.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

1KIKI

Friday, October 3, 2014 10:41 AM

So Magons, the Sierra Leone shutdown ran from roughly September 21 through 23. According to news articles it wasn't supposed to be necessarily a move to stop transmission by itself, but a public awareness and supply event.

If this graph is any good, we should be able to see over time if the course of the trajectory changes from those dates.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

JO753

Friday, October 3, 2014 4:02 PM

Its odd that so many uv theze scary dezeezez orijinate in and are mainly limited to Africa. Like the continent iz having an imune respons to humanz!

Its like an old Harry Harrison story, Death World.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

AURAPTOR

Friday, October 3, 2014 7:13 PM

Washington (AFP) - A 33-year-old American working in Liberia as a freelance cameraman for NBC News has been infected with Ebola and will be flown back to the United States, the network said.

"The freelancer came down with symptoms on Wednesday, feeling tired and achy. As part of a routine temperature check, he discovered he was running a slight fever," said NBC's website.

SIGNYM

Friday, October 3, 2014 9:18 PM

It seems to me that the WORST parasites and diseases come from regions that have been heavily populated by humans for a very ling time- Africa and China - because the microbiota has had time to co-evolve with human hosts.

But that's just me.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:20 AM

My understanding is that most highly contagious diseases cross over from animals and living in close proximaty with animals, or having animals live in close proximaty with one another. When the disease cross species, it appears to be highly contageous and particularly deadly. However, as it evolves it tends to become less deadly, probably better for its spread and survival to not continually keep killing its host. Also surviving hosts are often able to pass it on without succumbing to it, so you have more resilient hosts.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems to me that the WORST parasites and diseases come from regions that have been heavily populated by humans for a very ling time- Africa and China - because the microbiota has had time to co-evolve with human hosts.

But that's just me.

There appears to be something to do with the amount of animals that can be/were domesticated in these regions.

1KIKI

Saturday, October 4, 2014 8:34 AM

On a different line of thought, I have two opposing scenarios about the potential for Ebola to spread in the US. One is that the US isn't a brutally impoverished nation with no health or public health infrastructure, and with a vastly ignorant superstitious population following rituals that spread disease - and besides Ebola isn't that contagious. The opposing one is that it doesn't take one case of Ebola to start an epidemic - it takes one UNDETECTED one, and the US has a chunk of its population every bit as impoverished, ignorant, and out of reach of the authorities as a citizen in Liberia, and so separated from the medical system it might as well not exist.

I would hate to see these two scenarios tested against each other in real life.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Saturday, October 4, 2014 2:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems to me that the WORST parasites and diseases come from regions that have been heavily populated by humans for a very ling time- Africa and China - because the microbiota has had time to co-evolve with human hosts.

But that's just me.

There appears to be something to do with the amount of animals that can be/were domesticated in these regions.

Guns, Germs, and Steel?

Yes.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

SIGNYM

Saturday, October 4, 2014 11:51 PM

Just as an aside, while TPTB are busy telling us how unheard-of/ unlikely it is that Ebola would mutate to an airborne form, how viruses "just don't change their mode of transmission", the fact is that one of the Ebola variants has ALREADY mutated into an airborne form, as evidenced by The Hot Zone's recounting of the Reston airborne infection of an entire monkey-house.

Yes, it was a monkey virus. But it was an Ebola variant, now called Ebola Reston. And where Ebola could mutate once, it can surely mutate again in the same fashion.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

1KIKI

Sunday, October 5, 2014 3:53 AM

I don't think anyone knows about the natural history of Ebola Reston, for example, it's normal modes of transmission. But if it does have a significant airborne infectivity, and has had it for some time, that would go along with its very low pathogenicity. As far as anyone can tell, people who test seropositive are at no increased risk of anything.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

1KIKI

Tuesday, October 7, 2014 6:40 AM

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-06/spanish-ebola-infected-nurse-
first-case-contagion-out-africa-salzburg-activates-ebol

Spanish Ebola-Infected Nurse Is First Case Of Contagion Out Of Africa; Salzburg Activates Ebola Emergency Response

... a Spanish nurse who treated an Ebola victim in Madrid has contracted the virus herself in the first case of contagion outside Africa ... the nurse contracted the virus in Madrid while she was part of the team that treated Spanish priest Manuel Garcia Viejo ... Once again questions emerge just how the virus is transmitted, because if the nurse, who obviously took every possible precation against the world's most dangerous virus that is supposedly non-airborne, contracted it, then it clearly leads to speculation that Ebola may be transmitted by means other than
what the population is being told.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/zerohedge/feed?format=xml

The New York Times reported in 2000:

The Ebola virus, which has caused deaths from high fever and bleeding in African outbreaks, can also infect without producing illness, according to a new finding by African and European scientists.
The possibility of asymptomatic infection was only suggested in earlier studies, they said in last week’s issue of The Lancet, a medical journal published in London. Now they said they had documented such infections for the first time. They found that the Ebola virus could persist in the blood of asymptomatic infected individuals for two weeks after they were first exposed to an infected individual. How much longer the virus can persist is unknown.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, October 7, 2014 9:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Just as an aside, while TPTB are busy telling us how unheard-of/ unlikely it is that Ebola would mutate to an airborne form, how viruses "just don't change their mode of transmission", the fact is that one of the Ebola variants has ALREADY mutated into an airborne form, as evidenced by The Hot Zone's recounting of the Reston airborne infection of an entire monkey-house.

Yes, it was a monkey virus. But it was an Ebola variant, now called Ebola Reston. And where Ebola could mutate once, it can surely mutate again in the same fashion.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

They never proved that the Ebola in the monkey house became airborne, they assumed it an killed all the monkeys. Later they found that all the monkeys originated from the same farm.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

1KIKI

Wednesday, October 8, 2014 12:54 AM

Some of the keepers at Reston tested positive for Ebola Reston. When the Ebola was tracked back to the Philippines some keepers tested positive there as well. How any of them might have contracted Ebola isn't known. And, it's an experiment one wouldn't run, but I've wondered if Reston might be a natural vaccine for other types of Ebola.

There was also some thought that b/c Reston used high pressure hoses to clean the cages the virus might have been spread through water aerosols.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

1KIKI

Saturday, October 11, 2014 8:11 AM

So Sierra Leone experimented with its 3-day shut-down starting Sep 23. It would take about 10 days to see if it accomplished anything substantial. I don't see any obvious change in trajectory in this graph:

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

1KIKI

Saturday, October 11, 2014 8:24 PM

As i posted, it looks like the Sierra Leone 3-day shutdown didn't work.

Anyone have any facts to add to the news about international Ebola?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Saturday, October 11, 2014 9:17 PM

One confirmed case in Spain, a nurse who treated one of the infected Spanish priests. The people in Brazil and Paris who were suspected of Ebola tested negative. There is another oddball case of a British man who traveled to Macedonia and died of fever and internal bleeding.... also drinking huge quantities of alcohol.

Anyway, the best place for official statistics is here:
http://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/disease/ebola/en/

The WHO website is impossible to navigate, and I stumbled onto this webpage by accident. Good thing I bookmarked it because I could never find it again independently!

Interesting chart, where did you find it?

The part I thought was unusual, aside from the fact that the 3-day quarantine was a bust, is that the death rate in Sierra Leone seems an awful lot lower than the other two, only about 25-30%, as opposed to about 70% in the other two. Maybe it's a flaw in how the statistics are gathered, but one of the things I wonder is whether we are now seeing two or three variations of the same strain.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

1KIKI

Saturday, October 11, 2014 9:54 PM

Interesting chart, where did you find it?

hey thanks for the information. The chart came from WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_epidemic_in_West_Africa

There are many reasons to die from uncontrollable hemorrhaging. Ebola isn't the only filovirus to cause hemorrhagic fever, there's the closely related Marburg virus. And filovirusus aren't the only viruses to cause hemorrhagic fever. From the CDC; 'VHFs are caused by viruses of four distinct families: arenaviruses, filoviruses, bunyaviruses, and flaviviruses.' Bunyaviruses include Hanta virus. While US strains don't cause fatal hemorrhaging, globally many strains do, including a Crimean strain. And then, hemorrhagic viruses aren't the only cause of hemorrhaging. There's things that go wrong internally, like leukemia and DIC for example.

There are some good tests to check out genetic changes to look for different strains. I would HOPE that the UN, the CDC, the Pasteur Institute and other organizations would be diligently tracking this. But, maybe not. After all, it's only Africa. I haven't looked at this closely enough for online sources to let me know if strains are being actively tracked.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Saturday, October 11, 2014 10:05 PM

Well, I know the strain was typed at the beginning of the outbreak, and researchers have said that there is an awful lot of variation during replication, but nothing recently about whether one geographic area has evolved into something really different from elsewhere.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

1KIKI

Saturday, October 11, 2014 10:18 PM

What makes me think it's not being actively tracked is that there are a lot of generic statements by experts in the field regarding the potential for new strains - sloppiness of replication, the number of generations, the potential for for important drift - but no specific examples. Nothing like saying 'for example the Pasteur Institute has seen ...'

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, October 12, 2014 7:16 PM

More from ' The system worked ' file.

Following CDC instructions, worker STILL contracts Ebola!

Dallas Hospital Worker Diagnosed With Ebola, First to Catch Deadly Virus in U.S.

An employee at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who provided care for the Ebola patient hospitalized there has been diagnosed with the virus, raising concerns that the disease could spread.

The patient, who was not identified, tested positive for Ebola in a preliminary test at the state public health laboratory in Austin, Texas, and a second analysis will be conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, the Texas Department of State Health Services said on its website today...

The infected worker was wearing protective gear and was following the full protocol for treating infected people, hospital officials said at a news conference in Dallas today. The patient has asked to remain anonymous, they said.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dallas-hospital-worker-diagnosed-ebola-1
11124124.html

I hope this is the only one, but he came in contract w/ so many others...

SIGNYM

Sunday, October 12, 2014 11:53 PM

WHY WE ARE NOT READY FOR EBOLA, courtesy of Zerohedge

Because nothing says safety like hazmat suit sleeves rolled up

Power-washing infective puke from outside of the Ivy Apartments, where Thomas Duncan spewed just before he was taken to hospital

"Wearing suits" isn't enough. You need to be trained how to put them on and, especially, how to take them off without touching a contaminated surface.

The protocol for putting on a taking off full protective gear is so complicated that mistake are bound to occur. IMHO, the simpler, the better. The reason WHY they have not stayed with "simple" equipment is because it -apparently- isn't enough.

Because if the only thing you needed to prevent infection was not to touch "bodily fluids" then glove would be enough. And if the only thing you needed to prevent infection was not to touch "bodily fluids" or infected surfaces, or to breathe aerosols ejected by the patient, it seems that gloves and a mask would be enough.

But if aerosols are floating around in the room, you don't want them settling on your clothes, hence the hazamat suit. So apparently Ebola can be spread pretty effectively by fomites .... contaminated surfaces.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought to create a laminar-flow surround for isolation beds?

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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