"The father will kill the son." by ShanYu

ANGELUS ARCANUM

"The father will kill the son."

POSTED BY: SHANYU
UPDATED: Monday, March 28, 2005 13:49
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VIEWED: 6332
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Thursday, February 17, 2005 3:07 PM

While talking to friends and such, other people taht have seen the show... ive come to realize... no one caught on to teh fact that the prophecy wesley uncovers.. is true. at the time wesley hears angel talk about conner as food so he thinks it will happen soon...(in acctuallity it does in angel time not conner time)But rather than it happening then angel kills coner later on to give him a good life... angel deos not even realize that the prophecy came true, he lost faith in the shanshu prophecy becasue of that "false" prophecy. He tells wesley taht prophecys are bullsh!t(of course in different words) i was wodnering if anyone esle caught onto this.

"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

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Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:06 PM

TMURRIE

Thank you for that amazing insight, i sure didn't get that the first time.

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Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:34 PM

PETITRHINO

I don't know whether Angel caught on it, probably not.

I did however. But I'm wondering: Was it just a coincidence? Or does any fake prophecy one writes becomes true? Cause Sahjahn (sp?) wrote it, not thinking it would become true...

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Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:24 PM

SHANYU

Shajen only said he wrote it, what might have happened was he stopped the people from writing all the details and just left it as the father will kil the son when maybe orignnally it would have said the father will kill the sun in 3 years at the age of... how old is conner.... hes like 18 i think... nayway yeah shajen may have only been lieing.

"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

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Thursday, February 17, 2005 8:28 PM

LISSA

i caught on! i caught on! :D

~lissa, spwhore

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Friday, February 18, 2005 7:43 AM

EVILMIKE

Odd theory time. This is especially so because I haven't watched all of the relevant episodes lately. Let me know what details are in the way.

What if the son isn't Conner?

What if the son is Spike? The father (grandsire, but maybe close enough) didn't wear the charm at the end of Buffy. This means that he indirectly killed Spike who wore it, died and was got to live again. The prophecy was fulfilled -- it's just no one noticed.

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Friday, February 18, 2005 9:07 AM

ZEEK

uh....Conner died?

I don't remember that happening. I remember him going to stab conner and then a big flashy light thing happened. That's not killing him IMO. Angel just knew about the spell. Maybe the catalyst to set off Wolfram and Hart's spell was Angel's attack. But I really don't think he killed Conner.

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Friday, February 18, 2005 9:12 AM

CAPTAINCDC

I always viewed it as a self fulfilling prophecy. Because Sahjahn meddled and altered or invented the prophecy about the father killing the son, then brought Holtz into the future, he started a chain of events that led to Connor having a violence filled miserable life. Seeing how miserable his son was in that life, Angel struck the deal with W&H to give him a new life. If Sahjahn had not interfered with the prophecy or Holtz, then Connor might have led as normal and well adjusted a life as could be expected for the son of two vampires. He would not have been kidnapped by Holtz and taken to Quortoth(sp?)and he would have grown up presumably surrounded by a loving father (Angel) and a loving supporting family (Cordy, Fred, Gunn, Wes). Just a thought.

The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason!

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Friday, February 18, 2005 9:57 AM

LISSA

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
uh....Conner died?

I don't remember that happening. I remember him going to stab conner and then a big flashy light thing happened. That's not killing him IMO. Angel just knew about the spell. Maybe the catalyst to set off Wolfram and Hart's spell was Angel's attack. But I really don't think he killed Conner.

Angel had to kill Connor to give him a new life. He knew about the spell, but he still had to stab Connor to enact the spell. Technically, Angel did kill Connor. It just...didn't stick lol.

Oo, a thought! Remember the prophecy Lilah had translated that said "there will be no birth, only death"? It fit when Darla killed herself, and it kind of fits again in this situation. Connor is given a new life, but this life emerged out of death rather than birth.

~lissa, spwhore

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Friday, February 18, 2005 2:16 PM

GROUNDED

"Technically, Angel did kill Connor."

I didn't get that at all from watching Home. Was it actually mentioned or are we supposed to assume it by that weird flashy thing?

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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:57 AM

ELLYFISH

I believe 'The father will kill the son' actually refers to Angel being forced to drink connors blood. This was a collaboration between Sahjahn and Lilah(w+h) to ensure that the false prophecy came to pass. If the plan had worked fully then Angel would have got the taste for Connor's blood and perhaps actually killed him...this would have served Sahjahn's purposes perfectly as then there would be no threat of Connor later killing him.

When Wes went to see the Hamburger guy, the wording was quite sneaky to make us believe that Angel would kill (in his words 'devour' if I remember correctly) Connor when really it was more about making Wes believe it so that so he would protect him. This might have been engineered by Jasmine to ensure Connor survived to enable her to be born/survive etc.

I don't think Angel stabbing Connor meant that he was killing him, it was just for the purposes of the spell.

Argh so complicated!! Anyway this is what me and my boyfriend think, maybe we just embellished things to make it more ingenious than it really was!

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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:15 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by ShanYu:
the father will kil the son when maybe orignnally it would have said the father will kill the sun in 3 years at the age of...

Actually Conner was 3 (more or less) when he was killed at the end of S4
(to be reborn in his new life)
if we go by his earth age...
he just aged faster in those years because he had been in the hell dimension.
Since the prophecy was based on earth then it would be written for earth time.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:32 AM

AMYEL

I think we were supposed to assume that Angel killed Connor. Didn't Tim Minear say so in the commentary? I know after it aired, Tim posted online at his fanboard and he confirmed it.

But they never said it exactly on the show, so I guess it doesn't totally matter whether he actually killed Connor in "Home" or not.

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Monday, March 28, 2005 1:00 PM

ZEEK

Did he mean that was were supposed to assume that Angel killed Conner as a shock when he went to stab him or did he mean after the episode finished were we supposed to still assume that Angel killed Conner? Cause there's a big difference between trying to shock the audience with misinformation and actual plot points.

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Monday, March 28, 2005 1:49 PM

AMYEL

I don't know why you would assume that it could have been just for shock value, because there was no murder show and tell. Tim just said that the mindwipe was blood magic, not to mention that Connor was about to blow up himself, Cordelia, and an entire sporting goods store full of people. Connor needed to be incapacitated anyways, but the killing was spell related. Though the actual "killing" part was left vague in the actual episode. The main point is that Angel did something very, very drastic because he thought it would ultimately be the best thing for Connor. Tim Minear said that Angel killed Connor, but if you don't want to take it as canon because none of the characters ever said it outright, then that's probably okay too.

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