Hey what up with buffy and spike i throught buffy loves angel? by hawaiiansgirl

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Hey what up with buffy and spike i throught buffy loves angel?

POSTED BY: HAWAIIANSGIRL
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 09:46
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VIEWED: 6184
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Wednesday, January 19, 2005 12:27 AM

HAWAIIANSGIRL

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Friday, February 11, 2005 7:32 AM

MYNAMEISJONAS

Its called being a whore

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Friday, February 11, 2005 7:56 AM

ABBYJO

I'm assuming you are watching seaon 6 on FX for the first time. Definately a low point in the history of the Buffyverse. Yes, Buffy loves Angel. She was just using Spike as a sex slave to help her forget her miserable and depressing life, but in the end it just made her more miserable and depressed. Yeah, it sucks.

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Friday, February 11, 2005 9:27 AM

ODDNESS2HER

Whoa, ease up on our Slayer!
By the time she took up with Spike, she and Angel had been over for 3 years. She'd had an entire relationship with Riley since then. How many times is a person's first love their last and only love? Maybe she was just using Spike at first, but as you'll see if you keep watching, he eventually earns something more from her.

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Friday, February 11, 2005 9:53 AM

MACBAKER

Buffy and Angel moved on. Buffy, with Riley, then finally Spike, and Angel with Cordy, then the werewolf girl.

Because of Angel's curse, they can never be together.

From my perspective, Spike and Buffy are the better match. Think about these facts.

1. Even before Spike got a soul, he loved Buffy. Angel, as Angelus, doesn't love Buffy, he just wants to kill her.

2. Angel was "cursed" with a soul. Spike fought for his, and did it for Buffy.

Spike is in some ways more noble. When Buffy was using Spike, he knew why and acepted it, but risked everything to become someone she could love. In the end (7th season) I think Buffy really did love Spike. Sure, Angel was her first love, and there is still feelings there, but she knows Angel can never truly be there for her, and Spike can.

I always felt like Faith and Angel were the better match. They both have pasts that haunt them. Angel saved her soul and gave her a second chance, and lets face it, no matter how good it gets between them, it's doubtful Angel will ever experience "perfect happiness" with Faith, but it will be 5 by 5. The girl has "mad skills".

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Monday, February 14, 2005 9:42 AM

GROUNDED

"Spike is in some ways more noble."

Er...I think not. Almost everything Spike does is motivated by self-interest.

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Monday, February 14, 2005 9:50 AM

MACBAKER

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
"Spike is in some ways more noble."

Er...I think not. Almost everything Spike does is motivated by self-interest.

Hmmmm, like the time he sacrificed himself saving Buffy and the other slayers? Yeah, that was so selfish of him!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Friday, April 8, 2005 5:50 AM

HAWAIIANSGIRL

Calls being a Whore? I think not if you're talking about my homegirl Buffy Summers Yeah Yeah I know her ok and i know she not a whore i mean sure at first she slept with angel but she didn't know he had a curse heck ever i didn't know till i watch the season, then there was Scotty, went for awhiles but he dumped her for a another girl (If I see him i'll hurt him lol) Then Angel cames from hell and She and Angel were back together for awhiles til he had to leave SD and Buffy ( that got me to tear) So Buffy then met Parker ( At the UC SD Collaege)
(or however you spelt it) And they went out for one day then got alittle ok ok ok awholes lot intestion (if you know what i mean) He was using Buffy for sex only and i got to says that cold, Then met Riley (Now they dun make a cute couples) cause they went out for 2 years and after that Riley left her cause he knew he was hurting Buffy after Spike shows her what Riley was doing ( Getting himself bit by a girl vampire) So Riley left and Buffy was, once again, Alone ( oppis forget to meantions that Angel was so much jealous he looks so hotties ooo) So Buffy was alone for all those and even after she dies saving dawn came back from the dead and was always talking to spike ( now that a hot couple) In the Once More With Feeling i was like OMG Spike was really SINGING!!!!!!!!!! i was like screaming " OMG SPIKE REALLY SINGING YES!!!! and so was everyone else Giles, Xander, Willow, Tara (Willow GirlFriend Wow Willow Gaynow lol) Anya, Dawn, and Buffy. After the song with Dawn being Spike left them there at the old building and Buffy just went to follows Spike, They (Buffy and Spike) Started singing and before they stops they were looking into each other eyes and they KISS!!!!! (you go Buffy You the girl lol) So they were in love evern through buffy wasn't just yet till the end of SD and Could NOT BELIVES SPIKE RAPED HER! WOW well think i prove my point so dun call my Girl a WHORE kk

thank you ever so much and have a great day nad so just for a warning if you ever call her a whore again well here you go

SlayerGirl

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Friday, April 8, 2005 5:52 AM

HAWAIIANSGIRL

Hey LOL She my friend 2 you know and yeah i do know her but not by meeting lol i was just asking cause i got confused when angel came to visit her when Calbe was there and why she didn't take him back is all
If you want to chat and have msn add me hawaiians1@cox.net

Kula

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Friday, April 8, 2005 5:53 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
then the werewolf girl.

nina.

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Can't fault a girl for gettin' some, can ya?

And from Spike and Angel's history, Spike was due a bit of pay back, imo.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:23 AM

EMBERS

oh Angel was just the older, mentor guy...she doesn't need him any more
and Riley was just transition guy
and Spike was just a lapse due to depression

clearly cookie dough Barbi (oops, I mean BUFFY)
has finally found her true love:
The Immortal!

Personally I was hoping Buffy would show up on Ats S5 pregnant,
with Xander's baby
(LOL)

edited to add:
Oh I forgot Parker, how could I forget Parker?
Joss even said that he thought Parker was the love of Buffy's life
(the one who got away)....

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:38 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
"Spike is in some ways more noble."

Er...I think not. Almost everything Spike does is motivated by self-interest.

Hmmmm, like the time he sacrificed himself saving Buffy and the other slayers? Yeah, that was so selfish of him!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

If you reread my post you'll see the word 'almost' strategically placed at the start of the sentence.

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Monday, April 11, 2005 8:50 PM

MACBAKER

WOW, two months to reply to that, and that is the best response you could come up with? Weak tea!

The fact is, Spike did many things for the group that weren't forced on him by his chip, before he reclaimed his soul. He protected Dawn countless times, and risked his life more than once to help the gang, when there was nothing in it for him.

Yeah, most of his "noble" actions were designed to please Buffy, but so were most of Angel's. It's what guys have done since the dawn of time to "get the girl".

The difference is, even when Spike had no soul, he was trying to become more than what he was. Even without a soul, he loved Buffy. The same cannot be said for Angelus.

Compairing Spike without a soul to Angel with one, is hardly a fair comparison. Angel had a soul for decades before he started really helping people. Spike only had a soul for a few months, and he was doing good. Yeah, begrudgingly, but is was far better than Angel's years of self pity and remorse without action.

With a soul, Spike is more like Angel than not. At the end of the Angel series, they are both fighting a side by side, with the odds stacked against them! Where's Spike's "self interest" in fighting a losing battle? Like Angel, he knew what was at stake (no pun intended)!

Without souls, it's clear who was the more noble! Spike fought for his soul. Angelus would have never changed what he was, until it was forced on him! The fact that he overcame that curse and the guilt that came with it, to do good, makes him noble, but not (IMHO) as noble as Spike. Angelus would still be evil if that curse had not be forced upon him. Spike, souless and evil, chose to change what he was, and fought to reclaim his soul.

You can say "almost" all you want, but it's a weak cover. When the big sacrifice had to be made, Spike made the noble choice, and gave his life saving others. Just Like Buffy had done before on the tower. By contrast, Angel had to be killed by Buffy, to save lives. What's noble about that?

What's interesting to me, is that unlike Angel, when Spike reclaimed his soul, he didn't think of himself now as "William"! Spike is who he is, and William is a part of his past. With or without a soul, he's still Spike! He's accepted who he is, and he has taken that side of himself and turned it to something good. Angel has to separate Angel from Angelus to cope with who he is now.

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:13 AM

DIETCOKE

I agree with you, I think Spike is a better person, well vampire, and is a better match for Buffy.

I loved season 6! The whole Buffy / Spike thing was very interesting to watch.

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:47 AM

ZEEK

I don't know about Spike being the better match for Buffy. He may be more noble without his soul than Angel but what does that have to do with anything. Buffy doesn't love Angelus. She didn't love Spike without his soul either. I think Buffy gets some say in who she does or doesn't love.

I think keeping Spike around in season 7 was more Buffy learning that people should be given a chance at redemption. If it had been season 4 she would never have given Spike a second chance. Just like she didn't give Faith a second chance when she finally woke up in season 4. Buffy had grown by season 7. She let Spike and Faith try to redeem themselves. Doesn't mean she loved either of them. She had a history of using Spike. I think she just kept on using him. He loved her and she could always call on him for support. She never loved him though. Even Spike knew it. "No you don't, but thanks for saying it."

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:14 AM

MACBAKER

Zeek, I agree! Buffy and Spike both used eachother, but that did change, and in the end, I do think it was love they felt.

The simple truth is, Buffy and Angel can't be together, without getting Angelus, so it is a consideration. They had to move on to other relationships. Spike is the better match, if only because like Angel. he is an equal, who can hold his own in a fight, and he doesn't have Angel's curse.

As far as Buffy is concerned, she isn't exactly chasing either of them down. Seems she's preoccupied with this Duncan McLeod type, The Immortal, but that's probably just a passing fancy. Time and the eventual Buffyverse movie will tell!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:30 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
Zeek, I agree! Buffy and Spike both used eachother, but that did change, and in the end, I do think it was love they felt.

The simple truth is, Buffy and Angel can't be together, without getting Angelus, so it is a consideration. They had to move on to other relationships. Spike is the better match, if only because like Angel. he is an equal, who can hold his own in a fight, and he doesn't have Angel's curse.

As far as Buffy is concerned, she isn't exactly chasing either of them down. Seems she's preoccupied with this Duncan McLeod type, The Immortal, but that's probably just a passing fancy. Time and the eventual Buffyverse movie will tell!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

Bah the immortal is obviously just a fling. People have little flings in Europe all the time. Same goes for Buffy.

The thing is I don't think one person could fit well with Angel and with Spike. They have very different personalities. If Buffy loved Angel I just can't see her loving Spike. Someone losing their soul and turning evil is not going to even make the heart skip a beat. Logic is not involved much in love.

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:28 PM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
WOW, two months to reply to that, and that is the best response you could come up with? Weak tea!

My sincerest apologies. I'll check the forum every five minutes from now on to make sure I don't miss a post... ;) And I like my tea weak.

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:

The fact is, Spike did many things for the group that weren't forced on him by his chip, before he reclaimed his soul. He protected Dawn countless times, and risked his life more than once to help the gang, when there was nothing in it for him.

Everything Spike does while he has the chip is done in the interests of self-preservation. He has to keep the group sweet so that the next time he steps out of line (as we see him do on a couple of occasions) they'll feel indebted to him and won't stake him.

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:

Yeah, most of his "noble" actions were designed to please Buffy, but so were most of Angel's. It's what guys have done since the dawn of time to "get the girl".

It's easy to see this isn't true once Angel has become dissociated from Buffy in his own show. In I Will Remember You he gives up his chance to be with her because he knows it'll hurt her in the long run. In Hero he's ready to die to save some random demons. In The Trial he's ready to die just to spare Darla. This is nobility.

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:

The difference is, even when Spike had no soul, he was trying to become more than what he was. Even without a soul, he loved Buffy. The same cannot be said for Angelus.

There is no reason to believe he loved Buffy when he had no soul. He was obsessed with her and there's a gigantic difference. If you love someone, you don't attempt to rape them.

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:

Compairing Spike without a soul to Angel with one, is hardly a fair comparison. Angel had a soul for decades before he started really helping people. Spike only had a soul for a few months, and he was doing good. Yeah, begrudgingly, but is was far better than Angel's years of self pity and remorse without action.

I believe this is one of the greatest oversights in the Buffyverse. It was easy for them to say Angel had been struggling with guilt for 90 years because it was all in the past and off camera. If they'd been true to the rules of the Buffyverse, I think Spike should have experienced a great deal more guilt than he was shown to, but of course that would have occupied a lot of S7 and clearly they didn't want to go that way.

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:

With a soul, Spike is more like Angel than not. At the end of the Angel series, they are both fighting a side by side, with the odds stacked against them! Where's Spike's "self interest" in fighting a losing battle? Like Angel, he knew what was at stake (no pun intended)!

This is true, Spike did develop well in S5.

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:

Without souls, it's clear who was the more noble! Spike fought for his soul. Angelus would have never changed what he was, until it was forced on him! The fact that he overcame that curse and the guilt that came with it, to do good, makes him noble, but not (IMHO) as noble as Spike. Angelus would still be evil if that curse had not be forced upon him. Spike, souless and evil, chose to change what he was, and fought to reclaim his soul.

Not true. Spike does not fight for his soul because he believes it's right (as he claims in S5). Rewatch the end of S6 Buffy - when he rides off on the motorcycle it's clear his intention to get his soul back in order to have a better chance with Buffy. Thoroughly selfish. But then you wouldn't expect anything else since he was still soulless at the time.

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:

You can say "almost" all you want, but it's a weak cover. When the big sacrifice had to be made, Spike made the noble choice, and gave his life saving others. Just Like Buffy had done before on the tower. By contrast, Angel had to be killed by Buffy, to save lives. What's noble about that?

Spike was forced into making that choice by circumstances, and when it came there really wasn't any choice for him to make. The amulet was killing him, and he decided to go out with a bang instead of a whimper - thoroughly true to the character of course, but hardly the same as a noble sacrifice. I've listed examples of Angel's nobility above, no need to repeat them here.

....Anyway. Clearly there is a question of interpretation here. I'm not saying anything about suitability between Buffy/Spike/Angel, I'm just saying it's unfair to claim Spike's character is more noble than Angel. I mean, come on - the fact that Spike isn't completely noble is what makes him such a great character in the first place!

Wow, long post.

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Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:51 AM

FINE

frankly, i enjoyed watching her boinking all three of the buffy boys. spike was the hottest though, particularly when he did her on the balcony in the bronze. angel looked best with his top off. and they'll always be a place in my heart for riley.

think you're all getting too wrapped up in the rights and wrongs of it when you should be appreciating good looking people doing it on prime time tv. hotter than your average porn actor anyway....

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Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:15 AM

EMBERS

I still think that Parker was the cutest!

just sayin'....

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Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:35 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by fine:
you should be appreciating good looking people doing it on prime time tv.

lol

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:11 AM

FINE

just started watching season seven. is it me or is spike even hotter as a crazy mentalist? his clothes are nicer (i'm feeling that blue top) and his hair looks better a bit mussed up.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:46 AM

DIETCOKE

Did you listen to the commentary by Joss? He said that Spike and Buffy's relationship changed by season seven and for the first time they are having a romantic relationship. He says she is conflicted when she sees Angel but they are old feelings.

He said he left the last shot of them in the basement together open for people to determine how they spent their last night together. It's up to us to decide if they had sex, or just held each other throughout the night.

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