Angel Season Finale: what'd y'all think? by Melee

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Angel Season Finale: what'd y'all think?

POSTED BY: MELEE
UPDATED: Monday, May 12, 2003 14:44
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7667
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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 4:13 PM

I'm gonna smack 'em for making us wait a whole summer (that is, if we see it at all, pending shoe renewal) to see if/when/how Cordy's gonna wake up. But then again, I love Cordy, and I'm definatly an A/C shipper, so I may be biased (If they try to shmoosh Angel and Buffy back together on nexts week's Buffy, I'll smack them again). I'll admit to screaming "goddamn you Connor!" when I saw Cordy all strapped with explosives... who knew what'd happen (is Charisma even coming back for sure next season?).

I'll also admit to getting teary during the last scene.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 4:26 PM

HONORBOUND

You have to keep in mind that Charisma was EXTREMELY pregnant at the time of filming for those last episodes. Don't worry, she'll be back and good as ever. (At least, she better be. I hated the whole evil Cordy, sleeping with Connor bit.)

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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 4:50 PM

HONORBOUND

I also enjoyed Fred's reference to MacGyver. That humored me, since the WB will be ressurecting that franchise next year.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 5:06 PM

CYRIDEL

Just for me...I thought it was the best season finale of either Angel or Buffy. I like it that they didn't wait for the last episode for the cliche confrontation with the Big Bad like they usually do; that's why I liked the end to Season 4 of Buffy so much when we got "Restless".

But I just felt that this wrapped everything up so nicely while definitely giving us something to look forward to again. Team Angel is just that...they're a team again. Although it seems that the foundation is there for possible infighting again which seems to be the way at W&H. But I guess we'll just see if that tradition continues since they won't have to answer to the Senior Partners...or will they?

I love the fact that in a sense the prophecy, fake or not, came true. The father killed the son, albeit to give him a better life. And by doing so Angel proved that he loved his son more than anything in the world by giving him up, the same as he did for Buffy when he was restored to being a human. Of course, one wonders now if they'll ever revisit the original prophecy that they set up in which Connor was supposed to kill the time travelling demony guy who's name I could never spell. Sajhan? Something to that effect.

Wow, I feel like I'm writing an essay or something. I love Wesley's act of kindness even though it amounted to nothing. At least he tried and once again proved his feelings for Lilah were real. And I'm definitely looking forward to whatever they have in store for Mr. Gunn. I'm gonna lean towards the idea that he's not entirely human anymore.

So what happens now? The old saying about power and corruption comes to mind. Will Team Angel be able to stay with the straight and narrow, or will they become everything they've hated over the past 4 years? Can't wait to find out.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 5:38 PM

MERLINDREA

I'm sooo glad we are rid off Connor, at least as a regular - he was annoying me immensely. And they did it nicely, not killing him off, but giving him a good life. And who knows, maybe we'll have a chance to see a nice, friendly, normal Connor one day...

Is it by now approved that Angel will come back next season? I certainly do hope so. "Mr. Angel" gives the story a whole new twist! I hope that means we will continue to see Lilah, I really have grown to like her.

Merl

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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 6:19 PM

WERESPAZ

All I want to know is: What the hell happened to Gunn? I wanna know what happened to him, or what he saw.

-The SpAz

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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 8:06 PM

SLOWSMURF

I loved it :)

I liked that angel wasn't impressed or interested till:

"Cool! Is that high def?"

I was hoping through the entire episode they'd take the deal. Talk about a radical new direction! Is it just me or are those sets insanely large? I guess the hotel has been pretty damn big too though(is that a real building or a set? I assume set)

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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 8:15 PM

TALRIUS

Quote:
Originally posted by merlindrea:
I hope that means we will continue to see Lilah, I really have grown to like her.

Me too.

I liked her line, "It's the deal of a life time. (beat) Just... you know... not mine." or something to that effect.

Anyway, I was happy, I've been waiting to see Daddy kick his son's ass all season long and I finally got it to see it. I laughed in the episode when they're all free except Conner and Angel throws him out the window. Oh, sorry going into a tangent. I really didn't like Conner. Although I had to agree on him with the magic. Hello, I know it's a major theme on the show but every Gorramn episode? Plot crutch anyone?

Simply put, I liked it.

--------------------------------------------------
DOBSON: I'm supposed to be meeting my wife's sister. I've only got a few days to see her...

ZOE: I wish there was another way...

DOBSON: Oh, no, no. That woman is like a dragon. I mean, I believe she has a tail. If there's any other moons we need to visit, or if we could just
fly very slowly...

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Wednesday, May 7, 2003 11:19 PM

JOHNNYSCOTT

Hi There, John Scott again...I thought the ender
was good with the offer and I was also thinking
"Connor, stop with the freak-outs". Talk about
a screwed-up kid growing up in a hell dimension.
Once again, Angel is the better man(sorta man) by
saving his kid from a life of misery. Touching.
But anyways, that's my quick rant, and love to all
from John Scott Band at www.johnscottband.com
,John Scott

JOHN SCOTT at www.johnscottband.com
Spread the love.

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 5:30 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Melee:
I'm gonna smack 'em for making us wait a whole summer (that is, if we see it at all, pending show renewal).

I'll also admit to getting teary during the last scene.

That last scene was a direct depiction of every dream Angel had for his son, and for himself too for that matter. I guess selling his soul to the lawyers was worth giving Connor the ultimate peace.

I'm curious to see what circimstances will bring Cordy out of her coma; what happened between Gunn and the pretty kitty in the room; and what kind of new night club Lorne will get to put together. Now that W&H won't be trying to blow it up anymore, he might actually get somewhere.

"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 5:45 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Cyridel:
And I'm definitely looking forward to whatever they have in store for Mr. Gunn. I'm gonna lean towards the idea that he's not entirely human anymore.

You know, I didn't even think of that. But with that sort of ominous exit from the elevator...he did have a distinctly different look, didn't he? Gunn's always meant bid-ness, but now he's got direction. Good call Cyridel!

"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 6:38 AM

HJERMSTED

I couldn't help but imagine the different directions Angel, Wolfram & Hart can go.

Think of it, each main Angel character now has their own staff! I predict the ensemble cast will become even larger (allowing the main actors more time off... as Charisma had this year). Entire episodes can focus on one character and his/her subordinates with minimal-to-no interaction among the other main Angel characters.

This leaves the door open for any number of Mutant Enemy alumns to make appearances on Angel. Add to this that the Angel writing staff will now be comprised of the Mutant Enemy All-Stars from all three shows and... damn! Start season five right now!!! I don't want to wait all summer.

Personally, I like the possibilities of the new direction and think WB would be crazy to cancel the last Whedon show standing.

mattro

PS: This thought just crossed my mind... Though Firefly was set in the future and in space, structurally speaking, this new direction of Angel is the show most comparible to the dynamic on a Federation star ship, "Sr. officers report to the war room..." and all that. Factor in well-established characters and that Whedon twist and I sense a huge ratings hit for WB.

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 6:41 AM

SCIFISIREN

I loved this season finale. I remember reading an interview with Joss in which he said they were going to take Angel in a new direction, but I never imagined this. Talk about breathing new life into a dead puppy. It feels almost like a new show! But with each of them having their own departments and doing their own thing... it's bound to ruin the closeness a bit. I mean, how much of a team can they be if they are all on different sides of the building?

Not to spoil, but I also read an interview with Charisma and she talked about how fun it was to play a bad girl for once and hinted that there are going to be some steamy love scenes between her and Angel (I guess W&H have something to do with making that possible). As a Buffy and Angel fan I’m sorta getting more and more used to the idea of them being together. But my hold out is all Joss's fault. He worked the B/A love story into the ground.

By the time Angel left I was ecstatic... but it still made an impression.

I also can't wait to see how this all comes to a head and we learn W&H real reason for all this. When that axe falls it's gonna be a beauty, I'm sure.

-----------------------
Okay... essay over!
Sci-Fi Siren

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 7:05 AM

INDIANABANZAI

I thought it was clever that there was no dialogue during the credits at the beginning of act one, so there were no distractions as the names appeared onscreen. Gunn (i think) spoke right after "Written and Directed by Tim Minear" appeared onscreen.

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 11:22 AM

HJERMSTED

Check out Peter David's review of the Angel season finale episode, 'Home'.

http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/gmlog/00000378.html

Oh and how cool was the 'Necro-tempered' glass in Angel's new office? Does this mean Angel can work on his tan while he's at work?

mattro

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 12:02 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I really liked Connor when he first came on, he had a kind of feral human way about him, but he was good. Then he became nasty, snotty, and whiny, not to mention uncaring. So he finally sunk to killing innocent people, or trying to. I thought it was good they got him a new start. If he still has his powers we'll probably see more of him, which is good now that he seems to be decent.

There are so many directions they can take now, and it doesn't even have to be a con. If W&H really did ditch LA they might have thrown their newly rebuilt resources to Angel and co. just to keep them in LA doing their good right there, rather than trying to figure out where the evil lawyers went and what they're up to.

Lilah could yet be saved, cause if her contract was to the LA branch than Team Angel now has control of all it's assets including her.

Anyway a good finale, and can’t wait to see where they go with it next.

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 1:34 PM

SPIKEEQUALSYUM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
This leaves the door open for any number of Mutant Enemy alumns to make appearances on Angel. Add to this that the Angel writing staff will now be comprised of the Mutant Enemy All-Stars from all three shows and... damn! Start season five right now!!! I don't want to wait all summer.

yay! that means Angel will have room for Spike in his show! i love when they're in same show. You look to the left, and there's a gorgeous brunette man. You look to your write, and WOW. That bleached blonde is HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

wee! what could be better?

Spike = yum.

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Thursday, May 8, 2003 5:55 PM

MERLINDREA

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I really liked Connor when he first came on, he had a kind of feral human way about him, but he was good. Then he became nasty, snotty, and whiny, not to mention uncaring. So he finally sunk to killing innocent people, or trying to. I thought it was good they got him a new start. If he still has his powers we'll probably see more of him, which is good now that he seems to be decent.

You know, I was wondering about the whole Connor thing (after my first euphoria that we are rid off him :-)). In this forum, somebody else earlier mentioned, that it is very important for Joss to show that actions have consequences. That you can't just kill people and get off with it. But what about Connor? He helped killing the girl to bring Jasmine in the World and he seemed quite willing to kill a whole bunch of shoppers plus Cordy. But his 'consequence' now is a life in peace, with his father having sold his soul? What message is that supposed to convene?

Merl *wondering*

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Friday, May 9, 2003 10:35 AM

SCIFISIREN

I actually think Connor didn't mean to kill anyone. Remember the statement when Angel entered? "You got in. I knew you would" I think Conner set up a trap hoping that Angel would just kill him. He knew Angel would never take such an action unless he felt he had no choice and he knew that Angel would do just about anything to help innocents, especially Cordy. I believe he really did love her, they both did, he just didn't want his life anymore. I think he really thought he could never find peace. He knows his father loved him and that wasn't enough, he knew Jas made everyone felt loved and happy, but he never felt it. I think he truely gave up but didn't have it in him to kill himself so he made sure Angel did it for him.

Sci-Fi Siren

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Saturday, May 10, 2003 12:04 PM

ZELDA

In this case I think the consequences have been transferred: Angel has consciously taken them up for Connor, in order to give his son peace. I'm guessing Angel's interaction with the sr. partners at W&H not always be smooth, and there will be plenty of opportunities to have this choice rubbed in his face/used against him.

btw - REALLY excited that Connor may be all gone now. Never, ever liked that kid. The writers and the actor clearly made very specific choices and stuck to them, I just never thought they made for compelling television. Really, as an audience member, there's a very finite amount of whining one can take from a character when one truly does not care about them, at all.

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Saturday, May 10, 2003 4:54 PM

LUPA

I was out on Wednesday and I just watched the tape and I've got to say - I Loved It!
I really hope the WB will pick Angel up next season. I am so glad to say Good-bye to Connor and I think the finale sets everyone else up for some great storylines.

PS - I hope Lilah stays on as our evil cruise director.

"I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is just so bad. It's depressing." Tara, BTVS

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Saturday, May 10, 2003 8:38 PM

SUCCATASH

I am intrigued by the way Angel and friends have "sort of" joined with the dark side law firm. I'm looking forward to seeing Angel fight Caleb on Buffy.

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Sunday, May 11, 2003 10:22 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Little question, do we know if Angel gave up anything? I don't remember any soul bartering, all I thought that he did was take the job. So that means that until we hear the catch, which there might not be one, we don't know if there are any negative consequences.

The reason I say that there might not be one is because sometimes that’s the worst you can do. Then they spend all of this time looking for the catch, and being on their guard about everything that they accept. So then the don’t notice when the real bad things start to happen.

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Sunday, May 11, 2003 2:07 PM

SERENITYVALLEY

You're not going to believe what happened to me. Okay, I watch Angel religiously right? I tape every episode from City of. So I was psyched about the season (possibly series) finale of Angel, and what does the local cable station do? Well, the WB was out for TWO DAYS! I MISSED ANGEL! It's not fair! And this freaky thing is, that happened with the series finale/pilot of Firefly too! Creepy!

So, what happened on Angel? I'm dying to know. So far, what I've gathered is something about Angel peeps taking a job at W&H, something about 'none of this neer happened', Conner going to live with another family to be happy, gun went to see the little girl in red? Conner strapped explosives to Cordy? Wes did SOMETHING everyone's worked up about. Something good I recken. I get the whole special windows thing I think. What happened at the end? What happened in the WHOLE episode?

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

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Sunday, May 11, 2003 2:47 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Ok, lets see.
Evil lawyer came back from the dead, wes let it slip that she was a "loved one" and from the thus far recap to the intro was just everyone looking at her and each other in shock.

Seems W&H gave up and gave them the LA offices. Newly restocked. So connor is off being himself, full of self pitty and all. Angel is looking for him, and everyone in the team begins to think of what they could do with the LA branch of W&H. So they go to take the tour.

We don't know what Gunn saw. Fred saw the best labs in existance, all answering to him. Wes was shown the most extencive library of mysitcal stuff around. Then he knocked out the guy doing the showing, grabed the dead girl's copntract and lit it on fire, so that he could set her free and she wouldn't have to burn in hell. Didn't work, she's got a regenerateing contract.

Our green friend found out that W&H repersents eveyong in entertasinment he ever wanted to meet. And Angel got an office with a plasma TV, a private elevator to the motor pool where he has a bunch of cars, the joy of feeling sunlight without burting into flames (specail glass) and most importantly he got Connor a new life.

See Connor got all pissy and decided to blow up a bunch of inocent people, as well as himself, and Cordi (still comatose.)

Some say he didn't want to kill them all, but he was definately ready to kill himself and Cordi. Angel shows up, like connor knew he would, and Connor makes a whiney speach. Then ANgel kills him.

Everyone meets in the lobby, Angel says he accepted the offer (thus the LA branch now belongs to them) after they all decide they will. And no one remebers Connor. Angel takes a long limo ride to see him, where he is enjoying a diner with his family and talking about how much he loves them while discussing college prospects.

Sorry about the spelling, I think that covers everything.

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Sunday, May 11, 2003 2:54 PM

SERENITYVALLEY

Thank you sooooo much. That clears things up. Still wish I coulda seen it though. Think they'll do reruns? Don't tell me I gotta wait for the DVD! Ha!

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

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Sunday, May 11, 2003 3:01 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Well don't miss the next Buffy, Angel is on that.

By the way like your sig and whatever they call the quote by your avatar.

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Sunday, May 11, 2003 3:44 PM

SERENITYVALLEY

Well, with the way my local cable station has been treating joss da boss whedon show finalies, the tv will probably go all fuzzy for the last buffy episode too. *sigh*

thanks

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

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Monday, May 12, 2003 8:17 AM

BEANNACHD

I agree, scifisiren. I think Conor just couldn't stand it any more. Everything in his life has been a lie - his father wasn't really his father, the creature he'd been taught to hate and see as evil, isn't evil, Cordy made love to him, but didn't love him, and finally, Jasmine, who made everyone in the world feel loved and accepted BUT HIM, was a lie - just the lie he chose instead of having it foisted on him. And even that didn't work.
Poor kid.
I think I'm the only one who liked Conor. Yeah, the whining was irritating, but he is a TEENAGER, folks. That's pretty much what they do, and all the gods know he had reason to be screwed up. I think it's amazing he was a functional as he was, given the life he had.
And he was right about Angel - "You let him take me, Dad. You let him get me." Whether there was anything he could have done about it or not, the fact remains - Conor's been betrayed by everyone and everything he's cared about.
Why should he have faith that anything would ever work out? Angel was right - something broke inside Conor when he killed Jasmine.
Angel did the right thing - giving up Conor for his own good, just as he gave up Buffy for her own good. Makes you wonder what's gonna happen with Cordy.

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Monday, May 12, 2003 1:09 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

How many teenagers do you know? It has been my experience (at 17 years of age) that most teenagers are fairly well equipped to deal with life without constantly whining.

Those that have been put in life threatening situations usually excel or crack. Connor did neither (until the very end), he simply whined. That doesn't fit any stereotype for teenager that I know, so whatever this all encompassing "he’s a teenager" excuse is supposed to mean, it doesn't work. And of course reality is even more divergent than the stereotypes.

If you want to try and write off the whining as something you can say “he is a ________, folks,” about then maybe it should be that he is culturally juxtaposed. Or that he was raised in the 9th level of Dante’s Hell* (the most depressing level, although the human element of the second circle was a real downer.) Perhaps the psychological stress of having to constantly reevaluate his life as new lies came to light could be a reason.

My point is that to say “Yeah, the whining was irritating, but he is a TEENAGER, folks. That's pretty much what they do,” is a very stupid thing to say, which in no way reflects the true situation of the world, and is very clearly not true.

In my life (shorter than yours I assume) I have met people from the suicidal to the ecstatic, and of this range I have seen no evidence that the amount someone whines is dependent upon age. If you have something that shows evidence to the contrary and is not a simple desire to fall back on the assumption of superiority and take comfort in disassociation from those with less experience in the world, please let me know. I’ll format a response to that in a more formal manner and accept you as someone who has something of value to add.

*I believe it was the Ninth level of Dante Alighieri's Hell, but am not sure. I don’t have any direct references to what the “Hell dimension” Connor grew up in was. It is obviously not a direct translation of Dante’s Hell regardless of whether I am right about this being where it was said he was sent or not. Dante’s Hell was in one dimension that being the one we are in, and the ninth level was almost exactly at the center of the earth. Satan himself occupied the very center of the earth, frozen into the center of the ninth level.

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Monday, May 12, 2003 2:18 PM

BEANNACHD

"How many teenagers do you know? It has been my experience (at 17 years of age) that most teenagers are fairly well equipped to deal with life without constantly whining.

Those that have been put in life threatening situations usually excel or crack."

I've hired quite a few to work for me in a bookstore, and you're right, whining is not limited by age. There were seventeen year olds who were better, more responsible workers than some of the forty year olds I hired.
But Conor did not merely whine - he fought. I think he would have excelled if given half a chance, but he never was. He fought demons, vampires, both his fathers, and most of all, himself.
My point about him being a teenager is that he had very little life experience. That even tho he had oodles of experience fighting for survival, he had no experience of just being loved for who he was, or to get along in this world. Yes, there were demons to fight, but also relationships to build, and he had NO experience with that, and no one really helping him that he trusted.
In some very real ways, he was still a child, and I think people forget that. Just because he could dust a vamp without breathing hard, doesn't mean he was mature.
He had way too much responsibility, way too soon. He coped the best he could, until the end. Killing Jasmine broke something inside him, the very last thing that was holding him together.
So I cut him some slack in the whine department. Apparently, I'm the only one. I liked him. I thought his character was believable, given the history we had to work with. I think if he'd been completely together, and coping well with all the crap going on around him, that would have been false.
Se la Vie.

"You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends. Love isn't brains, children, it's blood. Blood screaming inside you to work its' will. I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."
Spike
"Lover's Walk"

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Monday, May 12, 2003 2:44 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

That’s more like it, I have noting to contest with what you just said, you're points are valid and good. I did like Connor, but I stopped when he started to chose lie over truth, and do things he knew were morally wrong.

He came out of Hell a fighter and although he had a limited understanding of relationships he proved he had enough to get by to some degree. But in the everyday world he just sunk, he was presented with truth, and the opportunity to do good, but he decided not to.

Remember Sunny? (She was Sunny wasn’t she? I don’t have the best memory) She and he were on much the same ground, she used drugs to get out of it, he didn’t have any coping. But when he was there he did good, then she died. He kept on doing good, but he was planing revenge the entire time. Maybe that was his coping, but it doesn’t make him likable. But at some point he stopped the whole good thing, and went straight to revenge. For a while he went back and forth, then he snapped.

I think it happened when he beat up the guy to find Cordi, the killing Jasmine was simply the culmination.

But anyway, this rambling is to say a agree with you, Connor was likable, but for me that stopped a long time ago. It’s hard to say when because he was being deceitful at the time.

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