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Hate to nitpick, and I know this was in the papers and all, but with two episodes to go, I'm a little annoyed to know Spike will make it past the end of Buffy. Not that I necessarily expected him to die, but until now I thought it was a possibility.

I try to stay spoiler-free, and maybe nobody else considers this a spoiler, but as it was in a thread heading and all... Kinda hard to avoid

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I try to stay spoiler-free, and maybe nobody else considers this a spoiler, but as it was in a thread heading and all... Kinda hard to avoid

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Originally posted by Melee:
AAAH! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

*curls up into a little ball of unhappiness*

As an A/C fan, and someone who has always had Cordy marked as my favorite character... this is very bittersweet news... dunno if I'll even be watching next year if this turns out to be accurate... *sigh*

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Originally posted by Cyridel:
Hopefully it was an amicable departure by Charisma so she can concentrate on her new baby. I'd hate to think that there is bad blood between CC and the rest of the cast...especially with all the rumours flying around about SMG.

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Originally posted by Zelda:
Also, all the official announcements came out today, and not one of them confirmed that CC wasn't going to be back next year. The only thing they said was that James Marsters will be joining - nothing at all about people leaving.

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GASPS!!!!!... What rumours... what the hell have I been missing.... ooooooo tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me... I'm all for gossip...

***gets out my pink pajamas and ties my hair in ponytails whilst settling down indian style in front of Cyridel***...

hehe...

if you wanted a quiet subservient bitch... take Angel... I'm unavailable...

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Originally posted by SerenityValley:

Who do YOU want to see return to Angel (either X-angel people or Buffy people)?

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Originally posted by christhecynic:
I know that thos doesnt meet the whole Angel or Buffy thing, but just once i want to see an angel. Maybe they had a few and I missed them, but I'd like to see an angel show up, with all of these demons runing around there must be an angel or two doing something. And there are so many demon spawn, but you never get to see the angel spawn (Nephalim.)

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"Aggg! Stupid crosses! They were in the stories, okay, and we hadda use 'em and now I'm always worried, how do I explain crosses working on all vampires, maybe no one will notice and I can just NOT MENTION IT!!! ... Actually, during my little rant I came up with an answer. It isn't the person who reviles the symbol of the Christian God, it's the demon that possesses them. Whew! It's cool. We're cool"

-- Joss Whedon, Bronze posting, 18/04/2000

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Originally posted by christhecynic:
Actually there are all kinds of vampire myths from all over the world, but the western one is the most common, and the one that they chose to use.

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Originally posted by Zeke023:
I didn't read this whole discussion - but I believe that the Buffyverse IS a polytheistic world with Christianity as its elusive but most powerful truth.

Crosses and Holy water kill vampires. Only christian icons work - even willow (A jew) wards off vampires with a cross.

Remember in the second season when Spike and the rest of the vampires were all bragging about being at the crucifiction?

There are other gods - but they are fickle and can help or not, and the dark magics they allow you to have can hurt or kill you.
The only purely good stuff here is Christian.

I don't think this is a statement of anything other than most western Vampire myths come from a Christian tradition and this is trying to catch that feel. But I still think it's true.

-Zeke

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Originally posted by Nicola:
These myths are the ones that the western world is most familiar with, but I wouldn't assume that they are the most common.

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And Christianity is not 'the only purely good stuff'. I mean what the heck was Caleb if not a Christian minister gone evil!

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My mother taught me to respect religion, but to be wary of people who use piety as a license to run other people's lives.

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Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
My point being, that while Christian symbols repel vampires, we have no reason to believe that other symbols of faith would not have the same effect. After all, in many common vampire tales, it is not the symbol, but the faith behind it that repulses the monster.

Only in White Wolf's Role-Playing games is it the faith that repels the demons. In myth it's the symbol. Even in the buffyverse - Willow (in season 2) does an uninvitation ritual using Christian crosses. She's Jewish. If it was faith and not. Also in season two Willow uses a scapular to ward off the evil wraith/ghost in the school - that's a Virgin Mary tradition... Willow's still Jewish. And Spike doesn't rant about the Buddha's death - he brags about the Crucifiction.

And hey - I'm not arguing that Christianity is the one true faith. I'm simply arguing that in Wester vampire myth it is. And Buffy keeps that feeling - and adds a little modern flavor. It's one of the reasons I like the show.

I, myself, am not proseltyzing Christianity. I hold half a master's degree in Comparative Religion. I'm pretty open minded and informed on the topic.

-Zeke

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Originally posted by zeke023:
Only in White Wolf's Role-Playing games is it the faith that repels the demons. In myth it's the symbol. Even in the buffyverse - Willow (in season 2) does an uninvitation ritual using Christian crosses. She's Jewish. If it was faith and not. Also in season two Willow uses a scapular to ward off the evil wraith/ghost in the school - that's a Virgin Mary tradition... Willow's still Jewish. And Spike doesn't rant about the Buddha's death - he brags about the Crucifiction.

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Originally posted by christhecynic:
And there are so many demon spawn, but you never get to see the angel spawn (Nephalim.)

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Originally posted by Talrius:

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Originally posted by christhecynic:
And there are so many demon spawn, but you never get to see the angel spawn (Nephalim.)

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Nephilim: The fallen ones.

Now, most interpreters believe that the Nephilim was the product of sexual union of Angel and a human woman. This is the most accepted version. Not the one I believe, but I won't get into that. Anyway, the Nephilim was one of the reasons God destroyed the earth(The flood). That along with man turning to his wickedness. "The Lord saw how great man's wickedness had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time." Genesis 6:5.

My question would be - if the Christian God so valued free will that he gave his children choice, why would it be evil for women to sleep with angels? If that's what they choose?
Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's not about good and evil, as in causing harm, it's about CONTROL.


There is also the possiblity that some of the good angels sinned against God; after Lucifer's war in heaven, by taking the daughters of man. Thus condeming themselves with Lucifer's lot. Either way the Nephilim were bad.

How is that bad, again? Just because they didn't follow orders? I tend to agree with Heinlein - "The only sin is in hurting someone else unnecessarily. Hurting oneself is not a sin, just stupid."

Connor kinda reminded me of one. Except being born from two demons.


Connor was a tortured soul, resulting from what was done to him, not from what he was. If he had been raised other than in a hell dimension, by someone who loved him as opposed to someone bent on making him a tool for revenge, he may have turned out differently.
His problem was with the people around him, not with the manner of his birth.
He had a soul - was NOT a demon, even if he was born of them. He was NOT evil, he was tortured and broken.
Big difference.




"You mock my pain!" - Princess Buttercup
"Life is pain, Princess. Anyone who says differently is selling something." - Dread Pirate Roberts/ Wesley

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Originally posted by beannachd:
I tend to agree with Heinlein - "The only sin is in hurting someone else unnecessarily. Hurting oneself is not a sin, just stupid."

"You mock my pain!" - Princess Buttercup
"Life is pain, Princess. Anyone who says differently is selling something." - Dread Pirate Roberts/ Wesley

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