So if I get Angel season 2....(here he goes again) by chrisisall

ANGELUS ARCANUM

So if I get Angel season 2....(here he goes again)

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, October 13, 2005 09:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7629
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Friday, September 23, 2005 12:46 PM

Can I just stop there, or....gorram it, you all know what's next.

Give me my orders... *hangs his head down humbly*

Chrisisall, the Joss addict

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Friday, September 23, 2005 1:37 PM

BOVINITY

Get it. Love it. Get more.

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Friday, September 23, 2005 1:53 PM

STAKETHELURK

You could conceivably stop there, but I'm hoping you'll go right thru to Season 5 (the bestest season

). It is up to you, though. However, I urge you to check out Angel Season Two. It's the season where everything fell in to place; they'd worked out the kinks during the previous season and were now ready to create some world-class storytelling.

If nothing else, get it for the Host--an amazingly original character who turns up this season. So, please, don't worry about future expenses, just take the plunge right now and see how you like it. If this season doesn't tickle your fancy more than the last, I'll do the Dance of Shame.

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Friday, September 23, 2005 2:19 PM

GHOLA

Season 2 is my favorite season of Angel. Buy it.

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Friday, September 23, 2005 2:19 PM

CHRISISALL

Must...unghhh...obey ..orders...

*Note: these orders don't take effect until AFTER the release of Serenity, and it's newness has worn off...
could be months...

Chrisisall about to get pre-occupied

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Friday, September 23, 2005 9:50 PM

BATMARLOWE

There's a kind of natural breaking point between ANGEL 2 and ANGEL 3. Y'know a lot of it has to do with how much you like Wesley and how much you like a new character you'll meet during S2 (in addition to the Host).

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 4:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Can I just stop there, or....gorram it, you all know what's next.

Give me my orders... *hangs his head down humbly*

Chrisisall, the Joss addict

I have Season 2. I'm watching Season 5 via Blockbuster ( dvd's in the mail do so kick ass

)

There was something about the whole Conner / evil Cordy thing that I just didn't...well, never mind.

Get it. Don't think, just get it.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 5:00 AM

MIKEYMO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Must...unghhh...obey ..orders...

*Note: these orders don't take effect until AFTER the release of Serenity, and it's newness has worn off...
could be months...

Chrisisall about to get pre-occupied

Muahahaha!!! You must buy! You must buy!

I love Angel season 2. A lot. You could leave it there, since there really isn't a cliff hanger or anything. But you won't want to. You'll want to see more.

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 6:16 AM

MER

You can stop there...or you can get up to Season 5.

But you'll be missing stuff... but it's all on you. Hell, I'm still collecting Angel. I have all of them but 3rd season.

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:08 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Season 5 (the bestest season ).

It is the bestest.

All 5 seasons are good in their own way (season 4 is a hot topic of discussion for many people).

My opinion, watch them all. They were intended to go together, they must be watched together.

Besides, if you stop, you will miss out on..... I can't say!

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 10:48 AM

RUXTON

Chris,

My personal observations won't save you money, not in light of what's already been said. But although I've recorded and watched all of the Buffy, Angel, and first-run TV Firefly episodes, I have watched only the Buffy and Firefly episodes more than twice. I've watched most of the later Angel eps only once. If you haven't seen all the Angel eps you are probably doomed to buy them. But I'd bet a nickel you won't review them as much as the other two.

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 11:01 AM

DAELUS

You could stop after season 2. But you'd be missing out! Season 2 is a LOT tighter than season 1, though. So that's good news.

And guys, can we lay off the spoilers, please? It's SO much better watching it when you don't know what's gonna happen.

"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 1:44 PM

MIKEYMO

Personally, I've probably watched Angel episodes on average more times than Buffy or even Firefly. I've seen the whole thing straight through 3 times -- just myself, also while 'indoctrinating' my sister and my girlfriend. Season 2 probably has some of my more watched episodes, but every one has a few episodes that I want to see again and again.
For example (and there are plenty more)
1-- 5x5
2-- Reprise
3-- Waiting in the Wings
4-- Spin the Bottle
5-- Smile Time

Angel doesn't truly find itself until early-mid season 2, just like Buffy. But man, once the sh*t hits the fan...

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

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Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

As a recent inductee into Joss Whedon's universe(s) myself, I'd say "Get Season Two!" Then three, and four, and five.

Somehow, I made it through the entire runs of Buffy, Angel, and Firefly without ever seeing a single episode of any of them in primetime. Early this summer, I had some time off, and watched a couple episodes of Buffy on FX. Pretty soon, I was hooked. I came in around the middle of Season Three, and got so into it that I went out and bought Season One, and dug it, so next came Season Two, etc. When "Angel" was spun off, I picked it up on DVD as well, and got just as addicted to that show as I was to Buffy. I've now seen all seven seasons of Buffy and all five of Angel. And I'd watch most of them again.

Figuring that anything Joss writes has to be at least pretty darn good, I picked up the DVD set of Firefly. And got hooked on yet ANOTHER Whedon universe. Now I'm all set for the opening weekend of "Serenity", and hoping for more movie spinoffs (there's still talk of a "Spike" feature).

If you like Buffy, Angel, or Firefly, there are worse ways to spend time and money than buying the DVD sets...

Mike

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Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:10 PM

CHRISISALL

I'm definitly down w/getting season two, just a matter of time.
One thing... Buffy 1-3 rock big time, then 4 is a little looser, then 5 gets harsh, then 6...
Angel 1 was real good, I hear 2 is better, then in 3 comes the kid, 4 loses momentum...(although all seem to say 5 gets back to greatness)...

It's like they rule off the launching pad, then Joss leaves to work on something else and their orbits start to decay....

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:12 PM

CHRISISALL

Spike feature....really?

It'd be bloody excellent Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:42 PM

KWICKO

Chrisisall: I agree, there were some not-so-great episodes, or even entire seasons, in the Buffy and Angel series. But still, I had to see them ALL to get to the end. And even the worst of them were still better than most of the other crap on TV... I still haven't bought Buffy seasons 5, 6, or 7 on DVD yet, but I will. I got caught up to where they were on FX, and watched those episodes there. But I'm confident that I'll pick them up on DVD, and I'll rewatch them all.

The "Spike feature" has been mentioned in a few different places. Joss said in a couple interviews that "the creative people" are bouncing ideas around, and he's apparently given Tim Minear the go-ahead to develop a story and script. Nothing's set in stone, and he's even said that it may come to the point where they get it all developed and written, and James (Marsters) just decides not to do it. Seeing as Spike - in both his evil persona AND his good-guy one - was one of my favorite Buffy/Angel characters, I'd love to see him get a full movie to himself - something he could really sink his fangs into. :)

And remember that Spike would seem to have a chance to become "a real boy" (his words, borrowed from Pinocchio) after his role in the Apocalypse - assuming he survives it. That storyline was left a bit unresolved at the end of "Angel", no doubt in anticipation of a sixth season that wasn't to be. A feature would be a great place to settle that, or to just tell different parts of Spike's... if "life" isn't the right word, then how about "existence"?

Honestly, with the level of enthusiasm that still seems to swirl around the Buffy-verse and Angel's world, it wouldn't seem too hard to imagine a franchise of feature films (or at least made-for-TV movies) coming out of them, featuring cast members from both. After all, "Serenity" is nearly upon us, and that major motion picture grew out of a show that was cancelled after only a half-season! I could understand why Joss wouldn't want to rehash old turf, and Buffy did seem to have a pretty good final wrapup, but if the stories of Angel and Spike could be moved forward with a strong script, there'd be an all-but-guaranteed audience for such an endeavor, and it would give both Joss AND his fans a way to get some closure on the whole series.

A Spike feature in our future? I'd stand in line for it... just not this weekend; I'll be in line for Serenity!

Mike

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Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:46 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Spike feature....really?

http://homepage.mac.com/merussell/iblog/B835531044/C1592678312/E200509
16182427/index.html
Here is what Joss said in a recent Q&A:

Quote:
Q. Well, now, Tim Minear's doing a Spike TV-movie, right?

A. That's the hope. I haven't put anything together yet; I'm just trying to line people up.

When I first read this "Spike TV-movie," I thought it was a movie for Spike TV, the channel. But other sources seem to indicate it is a Spike movie for TV.

See also:
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=21052

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:46 PM

ZOOT

I know a lot of people don't like the second half of season 2 - but GET IT!!!

I love it - it's possibly my favourite!!

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:09 PM

KWICKO

CANTTAKESKY: Thanks for clearing up some details and offering more info on the Spike feature. I'd been under the impression the Spike movie was headed for a big screen. Now it looks like if it happens, it'll be a TV movie, NOT a theatrical release. That's fine by me; we already know Spike works well on the small screen!

The aintitcoolnews site seems to have some promising tidbits floating around. Of course, as with everything Hollywood, nothing counts 'til opening night, so we'll see...

Mike

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Monday, October 3, 2005 2:40 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
I know a lot of people don't like the second half of season 2 - but GET IT!!!

I love it - it's possibly my favourite!!

Coming from a fellow DA fan, that's enough for me. I sold a couple more comics and bought it today!

P.S., was the BDM not astounding!?!?
It's possibly my favourite movie of all time now....
*walks away muttering praises in Chinese*

Still shocked Chrisisall

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Monday, October 3, 2005 9:39 PM

ZOOT

Quote:
P.S., was the BDM not astounding!?!?

CIA, you know the BDM is still not out in this benighted country of mists and fogs and misery??

But yes, it was, in everyway, superb!! I saw a preview with Joss and Summer (that was even better)!!

It's officially out here on Friday, but I might just see a further preview on Thursday if I’m lucky … then I’m off to see it with various friends and newbies on Saturday – sigh!! A time of great rejoicing is therefore imminent … let me know what you think of Angel 2 …

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 5:17 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
But yes, it was, in everyway, superb!! I saw a preview with Joss and Summer (that was even better)!!

GRRR ARGHH!

Chrisisall, who's really happy for you and not at all envious....
Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 5:21 AM

ZOOT

Quote:

Chrisisall, who's really happy for you and not at all envious....
Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.

WOW! one of the many things I did not know about the mighty CIA, I can just about believe you can fly a plane, but, gotta say, I always imagined you taller!!

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 7:25 AM

CHRISISALL

Actually, I'm very close to Nathan's height....

I got Angel 2 the day after I saw Serenity, cause now I'm absolutly convinced Joss is a gorram bonafide genius (as if I couldn't tell from Firefly!), and needed even more of his magic!!!!(Your tellin' me to get it was a big influence, too, as well as Batmarlow's)

Have fun at the official premiere

The always gracious, never envious, transgenic Browncoat Chrisisall

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Friday, October 7, 2005 4:24 PM

CHRISISALL

Angel singing in the demon karioke (sp?) bar was all-out freakin' hi-larious!!!

Chrisisall still LingOL

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Friday, October 7, 2005 8:42 PM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Angel singing in the demon karioke (sp?) bar was all-out freakin' hi-larious!!!

Chrisisall still LingOL

You made sure to watch the entire closing credit sequence with all the outtakes of it, right?

"What are you all doing in my living room?"

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Friday, October 7, 2005 8:59 PM

STAKETHELURK

Ah, Caritas, the demon karaoke bar--one of the weirdest and most brilliant things Mutant Enemy ever came up with. Glad you liked it, Chris, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the season.

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Friday, October 7, 2005 9:23 PM

AMYGDALA

For what it's worth:

If I could do it all over again, I'd stop watching Angel after season two. Or maybe a few eps into season three. Hmmmm ... have to think about that one.

Anyway. I know I'm a little alone on this one. I just loved those guys as a struggling little agency who obviously loved and would do anything for one another despite some *slight* ups and downs. Season two introduced enough darkness to keep it interesting without compromising this too much.

Mid-way through season three began the the gradual slide down to breaking my heart. The stakes and themes got bigger and the little people less important. The lingering feeling I got at the end was of fruitlessness and despair.

Of course, I say I'd stop there. Realistically, no way. I'd just watch and get my heart broken all over again, with periods of enjoying myself immensely all the way.

You're doomed

.

----
"She was naked, and all ... articulate."

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 12:43 AM

I love season 5 so much that I'd highly recommend watching 2-4 just so you can get to it.

Or even go straight to 5 (actually I wouldn't suggest this, cause you'd miss the backstory).

Season 3 & 4 were minor drops for me, but nothing compared to Buffy 6 & 7. I think it's safe to say that Angel is a fairly solid show, a crime to have never watched it all.

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 3:30 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by amygdala:

You're doomed .

At this point I have no intention of getting 3 & 4, I may pick up 5. All my research and questioning lead me to believe season two is the best, no need to go further.
Just like Buffy's season 3. (But... I've said similar things before...)

Thanks for the imput.

Chrisisall

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 8:14 AM

GROUNDED

Even if you have to borrow from someone else or rent or whatever, you can't not watch the last three seasons. Sure I hated four, but it's all about the journey. You just have to get to the finale having walked the whole road ;)

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 4:52 AM

CHRISISALL

No, I will not see 3 & 4!
I mean, I probably won't.
Well, not 4 anyway.
Maybe Netflix for 4, then.
I guess i could buy them all....HEY!!
What are you guys DOING to me??!!

'Darla' was great Chrisisall

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 7:06 AM

MER

*points* One of us! One of us! One of us! *giggles in a highpitch voice*

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 8:48 PM

GROOSALUGG

Skipping S3 means you miss Summer's appearance in the role that convinced Tim Minear to have Joss consider her for River. Skipping S4 means you miss 3 great Faith episodes, a visit by someone from Sunnydale, Gina Torres, and quite possibly the most hysterical episode Joss ever thought up.

Every season has its warts and things not to like about it (same for Buffy). But even the worst of them have great moments that should not be missed by anyone who truly considers themself a Whedonite.

I'm one who actually ranks S3 as my second-favorite, only slightly behind 5 (3 had a better, tighter arc, but less standout eps). The nemesis--he can't honestly be called a "bad guy"--is one of the best in all Joss' worlds, IMO. There's more than a little of the Operative in him, me-thinks...

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Monday, October 10, 2005 4:36 AM

CHRISISALL

All right, I'm leaning in that direction...but do you think I could deal w/the evil-Cordy thing? Does it go by fast?

BTW, the photography in Angel is exquisit!

What? He FIRED everyone!!!! Chrisisall

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Monday, October 10, 2005 7:02 AM

MER

Actually, it's an ongoing thing for a couple of episodes until Gina shows up.
It's more of a 'wham! Cordi!'

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:13 AM

BATMARLOWE

Evil Cordy doesn't happen 'til 4, so you won't have to worry about that. Bad Hair Cordy happens late in Season 3 and so that's something to deal with (Good hair Charisma can be seen on VERONICA MARS). By missing out on 3 you'll be missing the development of Fred (who I feel safe in saying has become beloved) as a character and most importantly Wesley. For me the most compelling aspect of Seasons 3 and 4 of ANGEL is the development of Wes.

The early episodes of ANGEL 3 really pull you in and make you want to see where it we're headed.

You and I both love 2 and I'll be honest, it ain't no 2. But hey, more Lilah! And when they go to the opera Fred and Cordy are the most ravishing and elegant women you've seen in series televison. Plus you get to see Summer Glau the dancer instead of Summer Glau the kick-ass chick.

In the interest of full disclosure I have to say that 3 ends on a cliffhanger. And that means if you want to see it resolved you'll have to at least see early 4.

Sounds like you've given up on BUFFY 6 but I would at least rent it. And if you don't do that at least rent the disc with the musical. As a BUFFY fan, you can't miss that.

Ciao for now.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:50 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
it
Sounds like you've given up on BUFFY 6 but I would at least rent it.

Oh I 'spect I'll get to it after I exaust Angel...I'm doomed to see it all now....

Chrisisall a slave after Serenity

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Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:55 PM

KWICKO

I agree with the above sentiments - you need to see them ALL to really get where the shows are headed. Granted, there were episodes of both Buffy and Angel that I could've done without, but they still needed to be seen to get the full story developed. Personally, I just couldn't stand Dawn on Buffy OR Connor on Angel. I'm not alone in that; my wife and I watched both shows together, and we found ourselves practically screaming at the TV "Kill her! C'mon, Glorificus - kill her already!" :) Same thing with Connor - he could've died a painful death, and we'd've both been happy.

BUT... As it worked out, both had their roles to play, and "suffering" through their showcase episodes (and seasons) was well worth it in the end.

On another note, the musical episode of Buffy was one of the best Buffy episodes, if not one of the all-time best MUSICAL shows, I've ever seen. I recorded it when it was on FX (I haven't bought that season on DVD yet), and we watched it a couple of times, and had to rewind a lot just to catch stuff we missed because we were laughing so hard. Joss Whedon should absolutely write a Broadway version of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, in the vein of Andrew Lloyd Weber, but with the humor of Spamalot. It'd be a huge hit! The songs were amazingly well-crafted, they were USEFUL in moving the storylines forward, they stayed true to the whole Buffy-verse, and it felt like Joss really *worked* to get just the right tone with every word and note. True masterpiece, that episode.

To wrap up: If you're not sure whether to get one season of Buffy or Angel, just try renting a disk or two from that season. You'll be hooked, then you'll be buying them all. We're all doomed that way. :)

Mike

Grrrrr. Arggghh.

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Tuesday, October 11, 2005 2:03 PM

CHRISISALL

I got Buffy 1 - 5, and am on the 2nd of Angel...

Doomed I am...

And lovin' it Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 8:50 AM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
it
Sounds like you've given up on BUFFY 6 but I would at least rent it.
Oh I 'spect I'll get to it after I exaust Angel...I'm doomed to see it all now....

Chrisisall a slave after Serenity

If you're not watching them concurrently, then it's better to watch Angel S4 before Buffy S7. BUT--you might want to seriously consider watching Buffy S7 before Angel S5. There are a couple of storylines and characters that spill over from Buffy7 to Angel5, and I really think it'd work better to see them on Buffy first. Just my two cents.

Also, about S4 of Angel:
It sounds like the thing you're most worried about, that you've been led to believe is the worst part of it, is Evil Cordy. I'll disagree with that. Of course, everyone is different and has different likes and dislikes, but for me, at least, she wasn't the reason that S4 is my least favorite. I'll try to give a (mostly) non-spoilery explanation of my main complaint with it.

Evil Cordy was not fun to watch. The writers didn't give her good material to work with, and Charisma's acting did nothing to improve it. And even early on, she was so obviously pregnant that she barely even looked like the character we'd known for six years any longer. And any time she had a scene with Connor, it was almost painful in its soap-opera-iness. But that said, there was so much going on in those episodes that was good, her portions of it just faded into the larger fabric as one unlikeable part of a very enjoyable whole.

The first time I watched the season, when it aired, I loved it. Every episode had so much interesting stuff going on, and seemingly every week there was something new and cool to get excited about--a road trip to Las Vegas; an episode that still makes me laugh uncontrollably, three years later; a giant, unstoppable new foe, and a subsequent great fight scene with him; DB getting to show he can play more than just Brooding-Vampire-Guy; Faith; and a Sunnydale resident dropping by to pay her real-life fiance a visit. And the plot that the Big Bad was crafting kept getting more layers to it week after week, and you're just sitting there watching it on the edge of your seat, waiting to see how it was all going to turn out.

And then in episode 18, it takes a bizarre left-hand turn into what feels like an entirely different story arc, although it really is (honest!) supposed to be a continuation of the one we'd been watching all year. I tried to stay interested in it at that point, but even though the three eps that follow it (19-21) are decently exciting and well-done, the episode that kicked it off (18, "Shiny Happy People") was so dreadfully bad, boring, and slow-moving that it left a bad taste in my mouth that never faded.

The worst part, though, is that this second storyline seems to bear almost no connection to the first one. Everything that had been going on earlier in the year, things that were labeled as "crucial" to the Big Bad's plan, don't really make any sense looking back on it, and the one explanation of it all offered by the writers through one of the characters is so weak that now every time I watch it, I feel like standing up in my living room and screaming at my TV: "That's it?! That's the best you could do?!" Toward the end of the first storyline, Angel says about the Big Bad: "I bet he doesn't even have a master plan. He's just making it up as he goes along." Apply that to the writing team, and that's how I feel about the season.

So when all is said and done, I've ended up resenting that year as a whole, because it had so much to love about it, so much potential to make it the best season of Angel ever, but just because the writers got too lazy to come up with a sensible ending for it all, and tie up all the threads they'd weaved into it along the way, the final result is a non-sensical mess.

Some people complained loudly and bitterly during S5 about the lack of a continuing story arc (it was made up mostly of stand-alone episodes), but after 4, I lost all faith in the writers' ability to get one right. Even the small one that is in there (involving a pair of characters opposing Angel and crew) makes zero sense if you try to follow it logically from one episode to another. But it's such a small part of the season that it really doesn't detract from its overall quality at all.

But all that being said, you have to watch S4 (you just do, okay?

). If you go into it not expecting the grand plot to be resolved in a satisfactory manner, you oughta be able to just sit back and enjoy all the great things that happen along the way, with no expectation that the reasons for them will ever be explained.

Good luck!

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 9:17 AM

GROUNDED

Really? I thought S4 was an absolute train wreck until Shiny Happy People dragged it somewhat out of the mire. The conclusion is so much better than the dreadful build-up.

Worst non-spoilery bit of S4: the continuity murdering Supersymmetry.

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