New to Angel, and I'm having this problem... by chrisisall

ANGELUS ARCANUM

New to Angel, and I'm having this problem...

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Sunday, June 4, 2006 02:55
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 12736
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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:15 AM

Y'know, it may not be David that I don't find interesting, cause Angelus was a hoot. And I liked him on Buffy, I just don't think the character of Angel is that interesting as a lead. When Max broods(Dark Angel), I feel for her, when Angel broods, I think, 'Go kick some ass, you dummy!' Maybe it's the way he's written or something.

No mood for brood Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:21 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeyMo:
OK, you go watch Buffy season 5 first. It really is great, with a strong overall arc and some great individual episodes. But I still think Angel S2 is better, and you'll have to check that out at some point. David gets a lot more to do in the second season.

First extra $50 I find goes toward AtS S2, I promise. As long as Serenity isn't in theatres.

Wes Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:22 AM

JACQUI

Your thoughts are not without merit here. Sometimes you just wanna slap Angel around a bit.

But, seriously, give season 2 a chance. It really does improve and tighten up in the second season. It was my fav.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:28 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Y'know, it may not be David that I don't find interesting, cause Angelus was a hoot. And I liked him on Buffy, I just don't think the character of Angel is that interesting as a lead.

I think this was one thing that could really have been mined a bit more. Angel has so much scope for drawing viewer empathy, but they seldom played to that.

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:28 AM

CHRISISALL

Also, why is it that when there's a fight scene involving Faith, the choreography kicks into overdrive? Normally, the fights are good on both series, but not quite the caliber of Dark Angel... except when Faith's involved!!?!
Is her stunt-girl just better than everyone else?

Got Faith? Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:30 AM

GROUNDED

I can't remember a single Dark Angel fight and I've seen pretty much every ep.

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:32 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Angel has so much scope for drawing viewer empathy, but they seldom played to that.

Exactly, I wanted less jokes about his brooding, and more info about his immediate inner torment. I wanted to know who he is RIGHT NOW!

Who's da man Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:48 AM

CHRISISALL

A fight easily remembered is one easily choreographed; if you can't remember them, that' cause they were complex.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 12:01 PM

STAKETHELURK

In the first season of Ats, Angel was still portrayed much as he was on “Buffy,” brooding over vaguely horrible things that happened a century or more ago. But once we get into season two, he starts to brood over things that have just happened, things that we saw play out in real time. We finally see why he’s acting the way he does and how it affects him (but the explanation does not always increase our sympathy--deliberately so). So I think they do take advantage of his brooding later in the show, when it starts becoming rooted in the present—not just “what did I do” but “what am I going to do now that I’m stuck in this (current) situation.” The first season was just feeling out what works and what doesn’t on the show; the second season is when it really gains direction, even when it comes to Angel’s broodiness.

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 12:55 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I can't remember a single Dark Angel fight and I've seen pretty much every ep.

The first time you see Enter the Dragon, there's no way you can remember most of the fights.
On an ep of Buffy or Angel, they're easier to get a grasp on cause they're basic (for the most part) full-contact karate, and thus fairly simple. How many times have you seen it - spinning back kick, backfist, block, straight punch.
So you can say: "the fight where the guy kicked Angel high in the air", cause other than that, all the fights are similar to eachother. Each fight has one or two distinctive moves that mark it.
Dark Angel's choreography was more fluid and inventive, thus fights are harder to distinguish, and even harder to memorize.

Watch 'em again, and see what I mean.

Wing Chun go-se Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:24 PM

BATMARLOWE

What Stakethelurk said was very well put. Nice round of applause for him.

Maybe the reason for your preference for the Faith fights is because Faith really throws her self into them. She fights with animal instinct and kicking ass is both her mission and something she loves to do and she has no problem with being savage and brutal about it. So they may be choregraphing to her character in that way. And while Eliza isn't doing the heavy lifting, we can see those qualities in her when she's the one on-camera during the fights.

Anyway, just a theory.

Oh, and she's a hot brunette who wears black leather.

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:44 PM

ERELLEVENT

I don't know I think the Ats fights get alot better after season 1 when they start to do more wire work with the fighting. I wont spoile any specific ones but season 4 & 5 of Angel have some really good ones.

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 6:01 PM

BATMARLOWE

Agreed. Mountain Dew, anyone?

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:12 PM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
Mountain Dew, anyone?

Oh, yes--but only if I get to keep the snazzy cup.

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:33 PM

BATMARLOWE

Well that remains to be seen, now doesn't it? : )

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 12:51 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
A fight easily remembered is one easily choreographed; if you can't remember them, that' cause they were complex.

Chrisisall

1) When I said 'remembered' I didn't mean in the literal sense of recalling every move. Every remembers the kung-fu sequence in the Matrix, but not every punch/kick thrown.
2) When I think about Dark Angel I can't recall Max fighting anyone at all.
3) This is almost certainly because I've only watched each ep once ;)
4) I wouldn't say the fight choreography in Buffy/Angel is simplistic.

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 3:34 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I wouldn't say the fight choreography in Buffy/Angel is simplistic.
I didn't say it was, just that it wasn't as fluid or complex as Dark Angel.
(simple full-contact karate doesn't necessarily mean 'simplistic')

Heeeyah Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:18 PM

PARKER6097

It's true, despite being set in space, Firefly is extremely believable and true to reality. In order to fully enjoy shows like buffy and angel, one has to have the ability to believe in the supernatural, or at least have the suspension of disbelief. Some people just can't do that, and so these shows aren't for them. I think the way Joss writes it he makes it all very believable, but maybe that's because I'm one of those that can accept this fantasy world as it's presented to me.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Sorry to be so late on this, but it just kept reviving to the top of the list. But I agree, per Firefly and Buffy/Angel. Firefly is more 'grown up', as it were. The characters have every day issues and no super secret weapon or powers to help them out.

Anyway, all this has been said to death by now, but I must add one thing. I disagree w/ your comment per Doyle

Quote:
The last show of Angel featuring Doyle should've had me in tears for long after it's end, yet I felt a contrived and quite limited grief.

While this scene didn't have me in tears, much like You're Welcome, it brought back a nostalgia of the 1st couple of seasons where all was new and fresh. I took it as a thank you from Joss and everyone on the show.....

" See where we've come from? We know things could have turned out different, but life doesn't always work out the way we want. Thanks for hangin' with us, we tried our best "

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:15 PM

PEULSAR5

We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt.

While I agree Firefly is more adult oriented, it doesn't take away my enjoyment of Buffy or Angel in the slightest. Both shows had excellent fantasy stories that were well written, directed (one would expect no less from Boss Joss)and acted. Sure all the demons seem to know kung-fu and it seemed kind of silly, but I just laughed, shook my head and let myself get caught up in the storyline.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:12 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
On Buffy, I don't have as much of that problem, Xander is the saving grace for me, I like it MOSTLY for the funny.

I gotta say, I really enjoyed Buffy - up until season 6 when it seemed to lose the plot, so I so far have only season 1-5 on DVD (though am getting season 7 soon) and I love them, though yes, not as good as Firefly (but I love horror and vampires, so I don't have a problem with monsters and demons etc - in fact my favourite episode is Hush - when they can't talk and those wonderfully sinister 'Gentlemen' are going around. I think that's a great show). I also love Buffy for the humour, but also because - at times - they can pull of scary which is cool. (IMHO)

As for Angel, I loved season 1 - dark and brooding, and then by season 3 I just gave up on the show. It turned into a soap opera for me, and I felt the grittiness of season 1 was gone (again IMHO) plus I really don't like Connor.

As for the martial arts? Yeah, I guess I do get bugged by that sometimes - and like you, I never had the problem with Buffy so much. I guess I liked buffy's quirkiness and the fact it was different and fun.

But I also agree with those that say Joss was merely honing his skills for his truly great work to come....

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:22 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:

But I also agree with those that say Joss was merely honing his skills for his truly great work to come....

Yeah, Buffy and Angel were experiments, Firefly was his concentrated perfection.

BTW, I only got to the end of the second season of Angel, and the fifth season of Buffy because of that loss of direction factor; I don't think that would played out the same if FF had gone five or seven seasons...

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 9:00 AM

VIVABOHEMIA

Well, I tend to think that the main reason that Doyle's send off wasn't as well written as it should have been was because Joss was a little desperate to get rid of him. The actor who played Doyle, Glenn Quinn, was battling a drug addiction and was apparently really difficult to work with. And tragically, he passed away in December of 2002 of a drug overdose. :'-(

I actually did get a little choked up at the end of that episode, but I can see why some people might not have. I don't think that any Buffy fan did not cry when she died...for the second time, anyway. Joss is usually very good at making people care for his characters.

That being said, I am completely and utterly in love with Buffy, Angel, and Firefly. And am rather annoyed at the stupidity of it being cancelled.

Sorry if this is kind of hard to read, there are just so many thoughts that I am trying to get out. :-)

Book: "River, come out from there."
River: "Can't! Too much hair."

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 9:09 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Grounded, I'll be in trouble soon; Blockbuster has no more Angel for rent! After S1, I gotta go and buy S2!!!! But I also haven't seen Buffy S5!!!!!
Which should I get first? I have a feeling I might like AtS S2 better than BTVS S5, what do you think?

The idea of a Buffybot offends me Chrisisall

um
did you try netflix?
I think they have them all...

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 9:17 AM

CHRISISALL

This was an OLD thread. I bought 2 and didn't like it all that much when it got to Pylea.
So I sold it.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 9:38 AM

EMBERS

I thought Pylea was lame too (but I know people who loved it and did you realize that that was Joss who was dressed as a Pylean and did the Dance of Joy?)

but seriously, sign up for netflix...get the first two weeks free (actually I had a thing giving a month free to friends and family, I'll see if I can find it)
and watch Angel's season 3 & 4...

you'll want to own 5 (I bought it because it has some amazing episodes) but you'll still want the continuity of having seen the others....

besides, you can stave off the Firefly/Serenity withdrawl a little longer by turning to Ats when you complete BtVS.

just sayin'

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 9:49 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

but seriously, sign up for netflix...
besides, you can stave off the Firefly/Serenity withdrawl a little longer by turning to Ats when you complete BtVS.

Netflix is the way to go, I guess. I liked Ats S2, just not enough to keep.
(Where's that Angel Chosen Collection when you need it?)

Chrisisall & Hart

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 10:48 AM

EMBERS

I felt the same way...
I enjoyed seeing Ats straight through once,

and then I watched the whole thing straight through a second time on TV (they were rerunning them all on TNT)

but I don't find myself really wanting to watch them many times like I do Buffy
(have you watched the commentaries? I loved the commentaries Joss did on Restless/S4 finale, and on The Body in S5....)

The growth and development of Wesley's character is very interesting and well done (one of the best things on Ats IMO) and it would be good to see the changes he goes through before skipping ahead to Angel's S5... because even if you get Season 5 to enjoy Spike, you'll find that Wesley really has some of the best episodes.

The whole theme of whether or not it is possible to change the system from within is an interesting one ... but I'll avoid spoilers (mums the word)

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 4:44 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

The whole theme of whether or not it is possible to change the system from within is an interesting one ... but I'll avoid spoilers (mums the word)

That makes you a bit of a tease, don't it?

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 4:53 PM

EMBERS

I'll confess that I think you would enjoy Angel more if you think of it heading somewhere....
in Pylea I felt that we weren't going anywhere interesting, the whole thing seemed incredibly lame & silly...
and in fact they had had to drastically alter the ending of that season
(I think they couldn't get Darla back...or maybe they couldn't get Christian Kane (Lindsay) back...
anyway they did pull that plot line out of a hat and it kinda shows.

but S7 of Ats was a really interesting arc,
it wasn't supposed to be the end (they thought they would have an 8th season, at Christmas they discovered the show was cancelled so they shorted the arc to bring it to and end by the end of S7)

so yeah...a tease...
but in the hopes of intreguing you (I hope)

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Wednesday, May 3, 2006 4:57 PM

CHRISISALL

That I am...
...more comics to sell for the cause....

Chrisisall, Joss fanboi

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 7:20 PM

RIVER6213

Wow! This thread’s a wealth of information! Thanks Chrisisall and everyone else for all of the insight and discussion. I'm done with Angel Season 2 and switched to Buffy and watched it up to season 3 which I'm done with. I've never felt so manipulated emotionally in all my life...good stuff.

I'm going to have to halt my complete addiction to Buffy and Angel, and will pick it back up after September. It's the only way I can maintain a leash on this.

River

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 2:55 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I've never felt so manipulated emotionally in all my life...good stuff.

Wait till you get to 5, 6 and 7.

You can't stop the Buffster Chrisisall

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