Angel S5, Damage and You're Welcome (SPOILER WARNING!!) by chrisisall

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Angel S5, Damage and You're Welcome (SPOILER WARNING!!)

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 00:51
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5791
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Friday, May 26, 2006 9:58 AM

CHRISISALL

I'm shell-shocked.
Even though I labeled this thread, I have to do this..

Select to view spoiler:

She CUT OFF SPIKE'S HANDS!!!!

Very disturbing!!

Select to view spoiler:

And Cordy pulled a Sixth Sense on me!!!

I'm dizzy.
In a good way.
This is great TV.

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 26, 2006 2:32 PM

CHRISISALL

What the-
*accidental bump*

So clumbsy Chrisisall

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Friday, May 26, 2006 2:59 PM

I KNOW!!!

Dana scared the CRAP out of me.

-13

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Friday, May 26, 2006 3:08 PM

CHRISISALL

Ain't been that jolted since Joyce's 'departure' on Buffy...

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 26, 2006 3:12 PM

Yeah..broken ribs.

No music. At all. Creepy.

-13

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 6:04 AM

GROUNDED

Damage was good, especially the Spike/Angel scene at the end. The Andrew+Slayer army stuff was horrendously cheesy though.

I never really liked You're Welcome all that much. The promos on Sky One looked kick ass, with slow mo shots of Lindsey's tattoos dissolving and creepy music, but it just turned into Angel and Lindsey having a scrap while Angel reels off some of the worst hard-man dialogue of his afterlife.

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Saturday, May 27, 2006 6:10 AM

EMBERS

now you can see why Angel Season 5 was so popular!

So many good, and surprising, episodes!

I hope you'll keep posting when ever you see another that warrents comment (like SmileTime! LOL)

But Damaged was a huge favorite of mine, I loved seeing Andrew again (I am a big Andrew fangurl!)

I've been rewatching Ats on DVD (so I can listen to commentaries) and I have to say that I think Ats S2 is much stronger than S1....
I loved Tim Minear's commentary to 'Are You Now or Have You Ever Been'...and that really was a great episode.

enjoy!

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 1:44 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
while Angel reels off some of the worst hard-man dialogue of his afterlife.

lol, that's funny.
I'll wager you didn't like Smile Time

I thought it was cool, and Why We Fight, too. Something different, if not 100% sucessful, at least something not done before!
My only problem with WWF (that's odd, eh?) was that Angel should have just killed the two vamps from the first moment- he did later anyway- it felt real contrived.

Puppet-Angel was HI-LARIOUS!!! Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 1:49 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

But Damaged was a huge favorite of mine, I loved seeing Andrew again (I am a big Andrew fangurl!)

I've been rewatching Ats on DVD (so I can listen to commentaries) and I have to say that I think Ats S2 is much stronger than S1....

The Lindsey arc was intense.
And Andrew (as always) cracked me up in Damaged. Unlike Grounded, I liked seeing him and the Slayers show up.

Potential Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:14 AM

DIETCOKE

Season 5 was so great! Some really funny episodes and some heartbreaking ones too. I think Season 5 was my favorite year.

I just Netflix Buffy and am starting from the beginning. When I finish Buffy I'm going to watch all of Angel from the start.

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:20 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

My only problem with WWF (that's odd, eh?) was that Angel should have just killed the two vamps from the first moment- he did later anyway- it felt real contrived.

well I think that there were two reasons for this:
Angel never ever kills a vampire until the end of Buffy's first season (what is that 1999?)
so if he went around immediately offing vamps on a WWII submarine then they would actually be altering the character....
Because the fact is that Angels character at this time is to not kill his own kind, and to not get involved...
later, in the 1950s (in AYNoHYEB, and how is that one for weird? LOL) Angel THINKS about killing the demon, but when the humans try to lynch him he walks away...still not caring...
Back then he was guilty but not pro-active.

and of course the second reason is that if he was so keen on killing Nausferatu, than why wouldn't he kill of Spike? You have to be consistant within the story....

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:22 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'll wager you didn't like Smile Time

Actually I really enjoyed virtually every episode of S5. Smile Time was brilliant, even if it did have some uber-cringeworthy moments just like the rest of the season.

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:25 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
and of course the second reason is that if he was so keen on killing Nausferatu, than why wouldn't he kill of Spike? You have to be consistant within the story....

Which is exactly why it was so stupid to do the episode in the first place! Angel on a sub? Fine. Just leave Spike out of it.

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:34 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Which is exactly why it was so stupid to do the episode in the first place! Angel on a sub? Fine. Just leave Spike out of it.

the writers were VERY keen on doing a submarine story:
one of themes for Season 5 was being in the belly of the beast (having taken over Wolfram & Hart, they are trying to 'change the system from within')
and that is very much in keeping with a submarine story when you are deep under the ocean with no escape....
And they love filling in more history for Angel & Spike, so I'm sure that including Spike was irresistable. And with Spike's character they were showing that he still had a tendency to follow Angel's lead... AND that Spike had a tendency to trade up on coats (taking the Nazi jacket off of the dead officer is a pre-cursers to taking the leather duster off of the dead slayer, Nikki).

So personally I consider it to be one of my least favorite episodes, but one that fits into the season...and fits into Angel's own history (because as I said, Angel was NOT pro-active guy: he didn't kill demons back then, he wasn't a hero back then).

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 5:19 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

and of course the second reason is that if he was so keen on killing Nausferatu, than why wouldn't he kill of Spike? You have to be consistant within the story....

Okay, all is bought. Thanks, Em.

Chrisisbeentold

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 11:07 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'll wager you didn't like Smile Time

Actually I really enjoyed virtually every episode of S5. Smile Time was brilliant, even if it did have some uber-cringeworthy moments just like the rest of the season.

But you think season one delivered a more 'pure' Angel, centering on him, and relying less on humour, is that it? A more moody, Batman-like thing, do I have it right?
That was sort of how I saw it, at any rate. Season two, while I liked it a lot, seemed to start getting main-character heavy.

Two centablos Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 11:08 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Angel on a sub? Fine. Just leave Spike out of it.

Now what fun would that be, mate?

No such thing as too much Spike Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 5:20 PM

GROOSALUGG

I loved Illyria, but re-watching "Smile Time" recently made me remember one of the big negatives to the Illyria eps--no more of Amy's short skirts...

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Sunday, May 28, 2006 6:33 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
I loved Illyria, but re-watching "Smile Time" recently made me remember one of the big negatives to the Illyria eps--no more of Amy's short skirts...

Yeah, but what about Illyria's skin tight blue outfit? Call me clueless, but I had no idea Amy looked like a supermodel until Illyria showed up.

Chrisisall, S5 is my fav season, but more for the ending 2 eps than anything else. Are you there yet?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Monday, May 29, 2006 2:09 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'll wager you didn't like Smile Time

Actually I really enjoyed virtually every episode of S5. Smile Time was brilliant, even if it did have some uber-cringeworthy moments just like the rest of the season.
But you think season one delivered a more 'pure' Angel, centering on him, and relying less on humour, is that it? A more moody, Batman-like thing, do I have it right?
That was sort of how I saw it, at any rate. Season two, while I liked it a lot, seemed to start getting main-character heavy.

Two centablos Chrisisall

It's so much the moodiness - I mean Angel's plenty moody in S5 - it's just the presentation of it. Some lines from big moments in S5:

From You're Welcome:

ANGEL (to Lindsey): I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

From A Hole In The World:

ANGEL: Good. Guys...
WESLEY: You don't have to say it.
ANGEL: I'll say it anyway. Winifred Burkle. Go.

ANGEL: Come on. Let's save the day.

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, but it felt like the WB wanted the show to make it abundantly clear these guys were good. Just seemed really forced, and more than once totally took me out of the action.

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Monday, May 29, 2006 4:28 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
[

Chrisisall, S5 is my fav season, but more for the ending 2 eps than anything else. Are you there yet?

5 eps left. Soon, my friend...soon.

What a ride Chrisisall

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Monday, May 29, 2006 4:54 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I never really liked You're Welcome all that much. The promos on Sky One looked kick ass, with slow mo shots of Lindsey's tattoos dissolving and creepy music, but it just turned into Angel and Lindsey having a scrap while Angel reels off some of the worst hard-man dialogue of his afterlife.

While I liked this episode, I have to agree that some of Angel's dialogue during his showdown with Lindsey is kind of silly, especially the "I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys". I was hoping for something a little more.... cool is the only word I can think of. Maybe inspiring or memorable is a better word.

I really enjoyed Lindsey's little dance when he throws his shirt in Angel's face, though.

"Who is this? Who is this? I came to fight the vampire with a soul. Guess you must have sold it, huh? Used to have fire in your heart, now all you got is that big honkin' sword, how's that feel champ?"

Good stuff. The little bit with Harmony beating up Eve for the good of the team was pretty funny too. "Is this okay? I mean, I'm evil."

Or Lorne: "We're unclean, like your so April fresh..."

I have to go back and watch that episode now.

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Monday, May 29, 2006 5:46 AM

GROUNDED

I really need to get the DVD. My tapes aren't great quality and I don't want to rewatch the eps in that form.

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Monday, May 29, 2006 5:51 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I really need to get the DVD. My tapes aren't great quality and I don't want to rewatch the eps in that form.

Amazon has it for $45 and free shipping right now.

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Monday, May 29, 2006 7:48 AM

CHRISISALL

*missing Fred*

Chrisisall

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Monday, May 29, 2006 8:34 AM

FALLENANGEL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
*missing Fred*

Chrisisall

Ditto.

I liked Damage although I found the story disturbing that a man would torture a child.( I hate seeing lil kids getting hurt in any way.) But it was great to see Andrew again, being funny as ever.

"The vaum-pires."

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.

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Monday, May 29, 2006 7:51 PM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by FallenAngel:
I liked Damage although I found the story disturbing that a man would torture a child.( I hate seeing lil kids getting hurt in any way.) But it was great to see Andrew again, being funny as ever.

The dark themes were disturbing, yes, but they weren't gratuitous--the writers put them to good use and turned out probably the best episode of the season (and considering how many great ones there were that year, that's saying something). Tho I still get a 'WTF?' moment near the end every time, when Angel tells Dana "The man who tried to hurt you..." 'Tried? Tried?' Geez, he sure tuned in late, huh? (I have a similar criticism of a line in "The Girl in Question", but since Chris isn't there yet, I'll save it.)

And I love "Smile Time", so don't think this is a rip on it, but I find its teaser even more disturbing, in a way, than anything in "Damage". You have a 7-year-old kid being urged to "come over here and touch it." Then when he does, there's a lot of moaning and "Oh yeah, right there..." Umm, yeah, that's just creepy...

"This Angel cat must be the dude that broke into the DON'T room last night."

"Toot."

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Monday, May 29, 2006 8:01 PM

FALLENANGEL

Oh yeah. I forgot about the beginning of "Smile Time." Now that I think about it, that was just wrong.

But I still loved Muppet Angel

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:55 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by est120:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I really need to get the DVD. My tapes aren't great quality and I don't want to rewatch the eps in that form.

Amazon has it for $45 and free shipping right now.

I'm in the UK.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:40 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I'm in the UK.

Oops. Sorry.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 4:59 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
(I have a similar criticism of a line in "The Girl in Question", but since Chris isn't there yet, I'll save it.)

Saw it. Only two eps to go now.

Yeah, those evil muppets were just so wrong. I bet when they did that show, they (the writer, director, puppeteers) kept daring each other to go just a little farther, until they went to that bad place...and the idiot censors of course had no clue...

Creeped Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:01 AM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
(I have a similar criticism of a line in "The Girl in Question", but since Chris isn't there yet, I'll save it.)

Saw it. Only two eps to go now.

Okay, good. Then here goes:

Italian demon: "Oh, look: the Americans are using violence to solve their problems."

Yeah--one of 'em is English, the other is Irish. Sure, they're real American. To me, this has always reeked of the writers taking a political shot...

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:25 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:

Italian demon: "Oh, look: the Americans are using violence to solve their problems."

Yeah--one of 'em is English, the other is Irish. Sure, they're real American. To me, this has always reeked of the writers taking a political shot...

You know, I took that very differently. It was funny to me because it's like they were saying only Americans resort to violence...even Demons believe the hype generated by the media (LOL), like we have the franchise on violence. Maybe it was a political shot, but I saw it as a goof on our glut of action movies, the sensationalism of violence on our news, and the erronious world label we might have because of it.
As a reference to our government's use of military might...I dunno, I think there's no real reason for it in that context...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:30 AM

SHINY

Quote:

Italian demon: "Oh, look: the Americans are using violence to solve their problems."

Yeah--one of 'em is English, the other is Irish. Sure, they're real American.

Well, they are representing an American firm (or at least a US-based branch)...

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 12:34 PM

AMYEL

Angel has been in the USA since 1902... he more than qualifies for the residency requirement. The American government usually doesn't give citizenship to surnameless undead, but I'd say he's quite American by now.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:55 PM

MPHILLIPS

Quote:
Originally posted by amyel:
Angel has been in the USA since 1902... he more than qualifies for the residency requirement. The American government usually doesn't give citizenship to surnameless undead, but I'd say he's quite American by now.

And the US did make him a supersoldier..

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Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:49 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by est120:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I'm in the UK.

Oops. Sorry.

No worries. I ended up ordering the dvds from ww.cdwow.com for £17 - the cheapest I've ever seen them :)

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Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:51 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Italian demon: "Oh, look: the Americans are using violence to solve their problems."

Yeah--one of 'em is English, the other is Irish. Sure, they're real American. To me, this has always reeked of the writers taking a political shot...

Maybe they were trying to buy the right to do an episode filled with outrageous Italian stereotypes...

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