Tonight's Angel was Beautiful by Knibblet

I won't ruin it for anyone. It was beautiful.
'nuff said.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:10 PM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

I'd like to second that. An excellent 100th episode

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:14 PM

INSANESPIKE

I agree whole-heartedly. One of the best episodes of Angel I have seen.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:28 PM

ARAWAEN

So beautiful, I am going to treat it as the series finale. Farewell Doyle! Farwell Lindsey! Farewell Cordelia! Farewell Angel Investigations!

Arawaen

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:31 PM

Your all lucky. I didnt even get to see it. A stupid college basketball game was on. I wanted to see Cordy again. Its not fair!!!!

MAL
"Nice shot."
JAYNE
(slurred)
"I was aiming for his head"

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cecil:
Your all lucky. I didnt even get to see it. A stupid college basketball game was on. I wanted to see Cordy again. Its not fair!!!!
B]

My email is knibblet@hotmail.com

If you'd like, send me a note and I'll write you a play-by-play of the episode.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:35 PM

SHEPHERDOFHERMAS

This was a very emotional episode for me. Charisma was magnificent. This is my favorite Angel episode to date. It is hard to imagine where the show will go from here, but I will ache now that I have seen again how powerful it is when Cordelia is in the mix.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:53 PM

PHLEBOTININ

Charisma was magnificent indeed. I can't believe how moving this episode was. So beautiful and so very, very sad.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 6:01 PM

SUCCATASH

Wow. Long live this show!

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 6:09 PM

Thanks, but I'm gonna see if I cant download it first, if I cant, than I'll email ya. Thanks

MAL
"Nice shot."
JAYNE
(slurred)
"I was aiming for his head"

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 6:12 PM

APEMAN61

Yes It was good

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 6:54 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Not to give anything away, at the end all I thought was " No... Joss sucks "

Only on one of his shows you get the emotional rollercoaster like this.

Next weeks looks like it could be fun...

Spike a Nazi ? Looking forward to it

" Thats not fair !!!!
I didn't even have a soul when I did that!"

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 7:01 PM

STEVE580

Wait wait...so there was an episode, and the basketball game just meant it wasn't aired here in MD? That f'ing sucks!

Damn it. I'll pay for the cost of a tape and shipping if someone could send me a copy...till then, guess I'll search Kazaa.
-Steve

*edit* ah, 'twould seem I've found what I was seraching for. For anyone who missed tonight's Angel, http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=3168 has the entire episode available for downloading. I have 2% so far! Woo-hoo!

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 8:08 PM

RUXTON

...Didn't realize how much I missed Cordy. Pity she's not a regular any more. Loved her whup-arse job on the zombies.

But given what happened to her at the end of the show, and the Mutant Enemy history with similar situations, I suspect we can mebbe, hopefully, look forward to seeing her again.

Maybe her popularity with the fans, as shown in this forum already, will get her back before TOO long.

Nice to see Glenn Quinn on the tape, too. Long live the real Doyle.

......Rxtn

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 8:52 PM

INDIANABANZAI

Wow.

Last time I came this close to tears while watching TV....

... was the first time I saw "Out of Gas".

Damn you, Joss, for making such emotionally draining TV! And thanks.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2004 11:37 PM

BOOMERGOODHEART

As soon as Angel's phone started ringing at the end, I knew what was up. Way cool.

BoomerGoodheart
"I love my Captain."

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 1:19 AM

WINTERFELL

I don't think charisma will be coming back.. she was specifically looking for a way to get her character off the show for good. i think this was the all time classiest way to do it. This episode was the most Angel-like episode I've seen all season.. it really brought thoughts and memories back from watching the first few seasons. IMO it could have easily been the series finale and I would have accepted that and cherished it. That was 50 times better than the buffy finale even.. ug.. i miss doyle.. :(

~~Robb of Winterfell~~
~ http://winterfell.org ~
High Fantasy Heavy Metal

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 4:25 AM

THALOS

It was a solid episode, but I was slightly dissappointed about the whole Doyle situation. My feeling was that when Spike's "source" was figured out to be Doyle, then there would be a whole episode based on trying to figure out the truth about this new Doyle, meanwhile buying time for Lindsey to do some plan. The way it played out in this episode, Lindsey could have used any alias in order to "hide" his true identity from Angel and copmpany.

Am I way off base, or not?

"Whoa, good Bible."

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 4:39 AM

Lindsey chose to use Doyle's name as a way of 'adding insult to injury'.

The long-term plan was to mess with Angel and Spike until Spike was absolutely convinced he was the real deal and Angel doubted himself so thoroughly, he'd be completely ineffectual.

He never expected Cordelia to wake up and throw a "gorilla throwing barrels" sized monkey wrench into the works. Her appearance changed everything.

Yes, he could have used any name. Lindsey chose to use "Doyle" as a joke. Hurt your enemy whilst hiding behind the guise of a friend.

Spike wasn't supposed to give Cordelia a 'taste test'. Lindsey was most likely expecting Spike to drink till his eyeballs turned pink. Angel wasn't supposed to drag Spike of Cordy. Cordy wasn't supposed to be around for any of this.

This episode reminded me why Joss should be elected God or at least, Potentate of Guilty Pleasures.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 6:37 AM

HIROSTONE

Cordelia was always my favorite Joss character. Even when she was with the "Joan Collin's 'tude", she was just being honest and herself. And I've always felt that Cordy was the most evolved of all of Joss' characters the way she went from "Queen C" to "A Power That Be".

Charisma was beautiful, as always, and I have been and always be in love with her.

But it was a very touching and cathartic way to let her character go. Fans will certainly miss her. And remember, Cordy will never truly be gone.

No, I don't mean that through some kind of "always remembering her/always in our thoughts" stuff. Like in comic books, Joss' characters never die, they just get re-written (or they appear as The First).

-Hiro

Paraphrasing Zoe:
"Once you're in Serenity, you never truly leave."

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 6:50 AM

HJERMSTED

Fantastic episode!!!

Both the funniest and the saddest ep of the season (if not the series).

Cordy: "Uh... Spike WHO?"

roflmao!!!

Thanks ME!! Fantastic job!

It was great to have Charisma back and in such fine form. She didn't have to come back. She could have pulled a diva on Mutant Enemy like a certain Scooby snack is doing at present.

Oh well... this just means Charisma actually outlasted SMG in the Buffy-verse since they both started on the same day.

mattro

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 7:03 AM

If I remember correctly, SMG originally auditioned for the part of Cordelia but was offered Buffy. To quote Artie Johnson ... "Very interesting ... but stupid." :)

So observant kittens and cats, how old does quoting "Laugh In" lines make me?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
... Charisma ... didn't have to come back. She could have pulled a diva on Mutant Enemy like a certain Scooby snack is doing at present... this just means Charisma actually outlasted SMG in the Buffy-verse since they both started on the same day.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 7:08 AM

AERRIN

Just a note for those who missed it because of basketball (though I've heard it's supposed to air Saturday? may want to check local listings.)

If you can't find the ep up on Kazaa yet, try buffy.nu. Just install bittorrent, and you have easy and instant access to great-quality Angel eps. Highly reccomend it.

ETA: Teach me to skim down the list. I see it's already been mentioned! Ah well. Another can't hurt, right? ;)

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 7:39 AM

KASUO

Highlights:

- Wes saying "You look hot" and "old school"

- Harmony: "I'm evil. I can beat her up."

- "One for the road."

________
"Let's moon 'em!"

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 8:03 AM

OKKAY

Quote:
Originally posted by Winterfell:
I don't think charisma will be coming back.. she was specifically looking for a way to get her character off the show for good. i think this was the all time classiest way to do it. This episode was the most Angel-like episode I've seen all season.. it really brought thoughts and memories back from watching the first few seasons. IMO it could have easily been the series finale and I would have accepted that and cherished it. That was 50 times better than the buffy finale even.. ug.. i miss doyle.. :(

~~Robb of Winterfell~~
~ http://winterfell.org ~
High Fantasy Heavy Metal

I was under the impression that it wasn't Charisma that wanted to leave the show, but rather the producers (or whoever's in charge) who made the decision to get rid of her.

My thoughts on this episode were that had they never come up with that stupid Connor storyline, Cordelia would still be a regular on the show. I may be in the minority here, but in my opinion, Angel has gone downhill ever since the episode where Holtz stole Connor.

I really hope that next season, they find some way to bring Cordelia back, the show is not the same without her.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 8:40 AM

I thought it was a good episode, and Charisma was in fine form ... in every sense.

David Fury is great with the plot and action, but not one of the best at the humor, and I thought the jokes could've used a punch.

In a way, I found the ep underwhelming, because it was just a one-off that wasn't all that dramatic. I mean, the ending was done so ... casually.

But I decided that was best. To have given it a big heavily scored, sob-for-twenty-minutes ending, to blow up all of Los Angeles or have really long speeches and, like, people cradlilng broken, bloody bodies and crying, "NOOOO!" (anti-spoiler, I guess: that's not what happens).

It was a really classy finale for Charisma, and finding a way to salute Glenn Quinn was equally classy and charming.

But all through the episode, my wife is saying, over and over, "This show SO needs Cordelia back." Her brief reappearance, sans all the possessed-by-evil, elevated-to-higher-whateverhood crap, just demonstrated how much she brought to the show.

And, man, I don't wanna get spoilery, But the discussion between Angel and Cordy about the course of their relationships and feelings was absolutely perfect.

"Bang."

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 8:56 AM

It was the quiet ending - the way the phone call would actually come from the hospital - the 'realness' of a completely unreal situation.

As soon as Angel turned and Cordy wasn't there, I knew. Just as I knew when the wedding ring hit the floor in "Sixth Sense", I knew.

I'm a grown woman and I'm not ashamed to admit, it stole my breathe, closed my eyes and left me fighting tears.

Lovely way to say goodbye to Cordelia.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 9:07 AM

SPACEANGLER

You know what?
It's times like these I get really pissed there's no WB in Virginia.

Guess i'm stuck watching last season's eps on TNT until next year.

--------------------------------------------
"Can he, you know, chase us? Because I know if I woke up looking like that, I'd just run towards the nearest living thing, and then kill it." ~Aqua Teen Hunger Force

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 9:46 AM

SEANMACROS

If you're not happy with the fact that you don't get a WB station locally in your area, Dish Network offers a Superstation Package among their other offerring which includes 3 wb's and 2 upn's. It was my way around their not being a local WB affiliate. Plus the WB affiliates are from NY, Denver, and LA which makes some of those frustrating time conflicts less so because you can see a 9:00 show at 9:00, 10:00 or 12:00. I don't know if Directv offers anything similar.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 9:47 AM

SPACEANGLER

Meh, i'm poor. Guess I'll just use BitTorrent, unless anyone can upload the latest episode onto my FTP server.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 9:50 AM

JUSTDAVID

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
... how old does quoting "Laugh In" lines make me?

42.

Quote:

It was the quiet ending - the way the phone call would actually come from the hospital - the 'realness' of a completely unreal situation.

I totally agree. I watched Smallville before Angel, and when

Select to view spoiler:

they did the closing scene with Jonathan Kent maybe dying, I saw it coming a good minute before, and it was SO cliche, with a slow-mo shot of a plate dropping, the whole thing just rang so false.

But with Angel, it felt completely real, and heartbreaking. I'm still absorbing it.

Haken needs a new development system for fireflyfans.net, please donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 9:52 AM

SPACEANGLER

Oh, by the way...
Totally off topic, but still on Angel. The episode Wednesday on TNT at 5, I don't know which one it was, but it was right after "Five By Five", the girl from Law and Order and the police were all combing over the room where Wes was tortured. They were all wearing blue gloves. Exactly (and I mean EXACTLY) like the gloves the bad guys on Firefly wear.

Weird, huh?

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 10:01 AM

Ah, but in defense of that Smallville scene,

Select to view spoiler:

the line Jonathan gives when he has the heart attack in the barn is the same line Glenn Ford said when HIS J.K. had his fatal heart attack in the barn in Superman: The Movie.

That awareness of what had come before and very subtle nod to it impressed me.

"Bang."

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 10:43 AM

JUSTDAVID

Quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
That awareness of what had come before and very subtle nod to it impressed me.

You're right, I always like it when they do that kind of thing. I really shouldn't have judged Smallville by Angel standards. I enjoy Smallville very much for what it is.

Angel has just been SO good lately.

Haken needs a new development system for fireflyfans.net, please donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 11:01 AM

You know, I'm mixed on the overall direction/quality of "Angel" lately. Cordelia's brief return reminded me of how much I miss her -- the her before she became whatever goddess she was before the Jasmine arc started.

I CERTAINLY love this season's lighter and more self-contained stories, compared to the horrors of last season, but I find myself longing for the simpler, and I think better, times of the first two or three three seasons. This moping about being corrupted by Wolfram & Hart ... well, duh. DO something about it, already.

Yeah, overall, I do like this season, and it's a great recovery from last season. I just feel it's a hair short of greatness. And with Cordy gone, I realize the only character left on the show I TRULY care about is Angel. I like the others, but none of them quite measure up to Cordelia, just as Eve seems like only a pale (literally) imitation of Lila.

But I feel like the show is on the right track, and am optimistic it can get even better.

"Bang."

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 11:41 AM

INDIANABANZAI

Quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
Ah, but in defense of that Smallville scene,
Select to view spoiler:
the line Jonathan gives when he has the heart attack in the barn is the same line Glenn Ford said when HIS J.K. had his fatal heart attack in the barn in Superman: The Movie.

That awareness of what had come before and very subtle nod to it impressed me.

Really? I thought

Select to view spoiler:

all that was said in Superman: The Movie was "Oh, no," and then he collapses.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 12:18 PM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

I live in LA, and on Tuesday I had my 32nd birthday party at the Cat & Fiddle, the pub where the gang was headed at the end of the episode. If only I'd been born on the 4th instead of the 3rd, I could've met them there...!

I miss Cordy and Lindsey already. I hope Lindsey isn't gone for good.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 12:37 PM

Indy,

Damn. When I get home, I'll have to drop the Superman the Movie DVD into the gizmo and double-check. You may be right; now I'm not sure.

BTW, people, the Superman movie spec. ed. DVD has some of the most fun and interesting commentary I've ever heard (Donner and writer Tom Mankiewicz), sounding like two guys you'd overhear telling stories at the coolest cocktail party ever. Highly recommended.

I return you now to your regularly scheduled Angel/Cordelia thread ...

"Bang."

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 1:08 PM

KALATHENA

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, Joss, for making a liar out of me. I truly believed before I finished watching this ep a few minutes ago that Joss would never break that part of his formula.

I should have stuck with my original gut feeling when she pulled the curtain at the hospital. I knew it then, but the episode reeled me in so tightly that I completely forgot. Nice work.

Wow. The dialogue in this one really rocked. I especially loved:

Angel: I'm not letting anyone I care about go in there.

Spike: I'll go.

Angel: Okay.

I have a couple of issues, one small, one kinda large, though I may still find that things will change...

First, since when does Angel have any qualms about torturing Wolfram & Hart employees?? He did it before when Connor went missing. That whole scene just reeked of backing off because Eve was female. After last week's ep, that seemed totally anathema of the show.

I really do hope this thing with Lindsey isn't over. I'd hate to think they did this whole build up for just simple revenge. That kind of linear plotting is beneath this writing team.

Quote:
I was under the impression that it wasn't Charisma that wanted to leave the show, but rather the producers (or whoever's in charge) who made the decision to get rid of her.

Nope. You were under the wrong impression. In the interviews I read Charisma left for 2 reasons. 1) She felt there wasn't much left to do with the character (remember, she played it for seven years) and 2) She did not want to be on a full-time series after she had her baby.

I hope this isn't a wrap-up of the whole questioning their decision to work for W & H. It was, however, an incredibly beautiful wrap-up for Cordelia.

--Kala

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 2:09 PM

SERENITYVALLEY

I realize that I LOVE this season because of all the references to other epsiodes. Yeah, there's always pop culture references, but I love it when they mention things that have happened earlier in the show and this episode had the most so far.
-Doyle
-"threw him out a window"
-Cordy and Angel meeting that one night
-Lindsey's hand cut off
etc.

http://www.simple-assault.com/Firefly.htm

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 2:12 PM

STEAMEDBAO3

Now i am as big an angel fan as the next guy but the 100th episode was horrible. It wass choppy, unfinished and it felt as if they were tryin to wrap up plot points just for the sake of wrapping up plot points. Also it seemed as if they could not decide what to do with Cordy...at one point she is her old sunnydale self than she is the wise Obi Wan type character and than she is ready to kick but. It was very haphazardly thrown together with out any real thought. It felt rushe. Put than That is just my two cents.

God created Mudder's Milk so the Independence wouldn't take over the 'verse.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 2:13 PM

STEAMEDBAO3

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 2:15 PM

WINTERFELL

thanks for the clarification Kala.. I also read those interviews with charisma and why SHE wanted to leave (Glad I wasn't going mad thinking that or something)

As far as characters go, I have to say out of all the characters in all of the Buffy-verse I think Wes gets crapped on the most. No one seems to pick HIM as the fav character or best actor or whatever.. Are there any other Hardcore Wyndham Pryce fans out there besides me???

Here's a guy who has really evolved as a character.. and just continually is dealt bad hand after bad hand in life, but keeps rolling with the punches.. He is amazingly devoted to his friends but NOT above doing what is right (taking Conner) when the chips are down. He shot what he thought was his father like 15 times without even blinking when he threatened Fred.. I mean Wes is just a truly amazing character. What makes all of his quirks so great to me I suppose is the fact that unlike spike and angel who could pull all of that off as well.. Wesley was never evil.. (minus the ep where he had that blood stuff on him) I mean.. he never killed people like angel or spike and yet it's like he has to pay as much as they do in life.. Think that's why I loved Doyle so much too. He was a generally good (though a bit shady at times) guy who had a good past and didn't deserve what happened to him, yet he made the best of it. Angel and spike deserve any misery they get.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 2:22 PM

I would like to thank STEVE580 for the link. That episode was awesome.

MAL
"Nice shot."
JAYNE
(slurred)
"I was aiming for his head"

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 2:24 PM

JUSTDAVID

Quote:
Originally posted by SteamedBao3:
...the 100th episode was horrible.

Do we have an emoticon for astonishment?!
I had to check some of your other posts to make sure you weren't just a troll (no offense).
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but WOW do I disagree with you!

Haken needs a new development system for fireflyfans.net, please donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 3:00 PM

KURUKAMI

Quote:
Originally posted by Winterfell:
No one seems to pick HIM as the fav character or best actor or whatever.. Are there any other Hardcore Wyndham Pryce fans out there besides me???

*raises his hand* Yo!

Despite Wes's somewhat farcical introduction to Angel back in season 1, he's really grown and evolved as a character. I think I've really been loving him since... hmm, probably since around mid-season 3 for certain, but probably since back in season 2 in "The Thin Dead Line".

And season 4 is where he majorly came into his own, being magician and gadget-guy. Wes da man... far more than Angel, in my book anyways.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 3:09 PM

WINTERFELL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
*raises his hand* Yo!

Alright!! knew there had to be some sensible folk out there.

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 3:38 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

I'm a big Wes fan as well,

the love triangle ( been there )

I also share his afinity for shotguns...

" Thats not fair !!!!
I didn't even have a soul when I did that!"

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 4:17 PM

TWOBLUEEYES

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAngler:
You know what?
It's times like these I get really pissed there's no WB in Virginia.
Guess i'm stuck watching last season's eps on TNT until next year.

--------------------------------------------
Angel's 100th episode.

Just so perfect.

Thank you, David Fury.
Thank you, Charisma, for returning.
Thank you, for remembering Doyle.

And SpaceAngler, if you live in the Richmond area, Angel is broadcast on Channel 12 (NBC) on Friday at 2:30 a.m. ! I'd prefer the WB's scheduled airing but at least it's shown here !

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Thursday, February 5, 2004 6:43 PM