Angel: I Will Remember You...what WAS the budget on that?? by chrisisall

I don't have the budget breakdown sheet in front of me, or even remember the cheesiness of that ep, but I do agree that at times both BUFFY and ANGEL did stretch the budget at times. Like I remember a few eps where when they staked some vampires, instead of seeing them fully dissolve into dust, they just showed the character holding the stake and a little cloud of dust was thrown at them.

That to me was the only time where the cheap budget of an episode was the most apparent.

I remember Jane (I think, or maybe it was Marti) on one of the commentary tracks on season 2 of Buffy talking about how the writer imagines something to be massive and epic, but in reality can only get so big due to the budget. Like how she imagines a burning church to look like Coppola's BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA, but in the end they just get two fire bars.

I think one of the true marks of a really great show is if you don't notice the budget. Like that ep of ANGEL you mentioned I didn't notice it too much because of the fantastic story that drove the ep. And after hearing that the first season of BUFFY had practically no budget, while at times it was apparent, for the most part I didn't notice. It's only with the "off screen dustings" that it becomes apparent that they're pinching pennies.

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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:

I think one of the true marks of a really great show is if you don't notice the budget.

The first time (and second, actually) I didn't even think about it, I was so immersed in the story.
It's like Star Trek TOS, the characters and story are so good, the window dressing goes by mostly un-noticed...for the most part...

Costume designer Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:13 AM

Yeah, and it's jarring to see the differences between the original series and its various spin-offs. Like in the spin-offs, the high ranking officers (captains and seconds) wore red and the color scheme of the ships were more subdue (I'm guessing this was done to continue the submarine motif that Nick Meyer did with his two TREK movies). But in the original the ship is full of color (done because at the time NBC was I think the first major network to have color shows, so they wanted to show off the new color scheme they had for ratings) and red shirts=death.

So it's weird how in the TREK verse, even though red went from being marked as a sacrifice to being the commanding officer, there's still that red shirt connotation.

And as per the joke about FIREFLY how all the planets look like Malibu, you can say the same thing for any sci-fi show shot in B.C., how every planet looks like the outskirts of Vancouver.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:21 AM

And Sunnydale looked like suburban LA, lol...

Location co-ordinator Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:17 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Nicely written, nicely acted, but what was up with the Clash-Of-The-Titans-looking PTB's????
It was a pitch-perfect ep except for the cheesey, fan/convention calibur costumes and Lost In Space gold and silver skin colour!!!
WTF???

don't knock the Powers That Be!
A friend dressed up like that for a Buffy convention once..it took hours getting the skin and hair just right! LOL

and THAT is what seemed cheesy to you?
Not when they had to go and ask the statue at Hamburger Heaven to get the 'truth'?

Actually you remind me, I really need to rewatch all of these again!

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Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

and THAT is what seemed cheesy to you?
Not when they had to go and ask the statue at Hamburger Heaven to get the 'truth'?

No, 'cause that's what it REALLY looks like!

Judging Chrisisall

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Friday, July 13, 2007 8:56 AM

I think on one of the commentaries for season four one of the writers/directors mentioned how Angel, up to that point, was the most expensive show to be broadcast. If I remember correctly each show had a budget of $8 million dollars an episode.

What season two, had I have no idea. But I always overlooked any cheesy costumed monsters for the most part because they did enough to conjure 'the other world' effect. That's all you need really. It's similar to the Kung Fu, it isn't Jackie Chan stlye or Shoalin Monk style but its convincing enough to perpetuate the fantasy.

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, July 17, 2007 11:22 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
And Sunnydale looked like suburban LA, lol...

Location co-ordinator Chrisisall

Or perhaps Santa Barbara...which I never knew it was until listening to a Jane Espenson commentary recently. ;) The aerial shots, that is. I always knew it looked like home, though.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:13 PM

8 million per? I don't remember that ever being mentioned in any of the ANGEL S4 commentaries. I may be wrong and maybe it did indeed cost that much and maybe more, but ANGEL never really struck me as an expensive show. Neither did BUFFY, for that matter. FIREFLY definitely had a huge budget to it, which probably lead to it's demise since FOX was paying for revolutionary SFX that only a handful of people were seeing. I think FIREFLY for the time being held the record for being the most expensive pilot filmed.

That record was beaten two years later with LOST. I heard the pilot ep for that was like $14 million. Lloyd Braun ("Why can't you be more like him!!!"), the then head of ABC actually lost his job because of how expensive that pilot was. This was all before LOST became the ratings giant it was out of the gate, so at the time this was a pretty big deal for something that could have easily flopped and been swiftly cancelled.

I think money has always been a big issue for Joss with his shows. Yes they're pop culture icons and have legions of fans, but I don't remember them ever having ER or CSI sized ratings.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:57 PM

Originally posted by reginaroadie:

Quote:
8 million per? I don't remember that ever being mentioned in any of the ANGEL S4 commentaries. I may be wrong and maybe it did indeed cost that much and maybe more, but ANGEL never really struck me as an expensive show.

It's there somewhere I just can't remember which commentary. I'll have to rewatch them to find the exact one.

Thing with budgets, it's not just about the way they look in terms of expense, it is also to do with actors salaries and to some extent crew salaries. Season Four had a host of regular characters and all these actors would command a significant salary. Especially by this stage (season four) factor also guest actors (Eliza Dushku, Gina, Stephanie Romano n so forth) and the budget piles up. Then this is a show that not only has a special effects budget, but also a large make-up department and a regular heavy working stunt team too. Then there's the location work on top of that... Believe me it can soon add up...

I'll try and check out the commentary now..

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, July 17, 2007 2:09 PM

Oh no, I completely buy that the majority of a tv shows budget is salaries for the on air and behind the camera talent. Like ER is apparently a huge budgeted series just for all the people that have been on the show since day 1. And FRIENDS was probably the most expensive comedy since near the end $6 million of the budget was going to the cast alone.

Amongst below the line workers like the grips, electricians and all the people that work behind the scenes, getting on a tv show is the best thing to do. Because movies may have lots of money attached to it, but they only last a couple of months. But tv shows, especially hit series that last for like a decade, are steady employment. You think only the cast members of FRIENDS are rich? Imagine the grip that started out as a trainee on season 1 and stayed on the show for the full ten years. His kids are probably going to Harvard and has enough left over to play on Wall Street.

So even if you have aspirations for working in the film industry and only end up as one of those tiny names that flash by during the end credits, you'd still be sitting easy financially for the rest of your life.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:

So even if you have aspirations for working in the film industry and only end up as one of those tiny names that flash by during the end credits, you'd still be sitting easy financially for the rest of your life.

Most never get jobs like that that last. The majority of flim and TV peeps sock away a payday in anticipation of the inevitable dry spell. If they're smart.

Just sayin' Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:25 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I wanna be Al Leong, man, he gets killed by *everybody*, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Mel Gibson, even Godzilla!

He might not be a big-name actor, but I bet he's got a nice bankroll.

Not to mention, being able to say "Yeah, I get my butt kicked by every hero in hollywood."
THERE's a conversation stopper, lol.

-F

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

He might not be a big-name actor, but I bet he's got a nice bankroll.

The quiet, dedicated dudes behind the scenes do well if it's in their bones.

My friend does that stuff. Spike killed him in season seven of Buffy...

Six degrees Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:38 AM

I was always impressed with Lance Le Gault.. Remember him? He appeared in so many 80s tv series' as a guest actor. I remember one weekend he was Colonel Decker in A-team, an episode of Magnum, Airwolf, Quantumn Leap, Knight Rider hell I think he even showed up in Buck Rogers...

And he'd just keep on appearing sometimes in the same show later on as a completely different character! Classic. I bet he made a packet just hopping around TV shows as guest actor.

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:40 AM

Reginaroadie.

Just to let you know I re-watched Apocalypse Nowish and in that commentary they mentioned that that particular episode had been the most expensive episode of a TV show. Unfortunately it wasn't the one where they actually mentioned the budget! I know it is their somewhere I'll just have to keep listening.

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:46 AM

Originally posted by reginaroadie:

Quote:
So even if you have aspirations for working in the film industry and only end up as one of those tiny names that flash by during the end credits, you'd still be sitting easy financially for the rest of your life.

That may be for the US film industry, sadly here in the UK you pretty much have to graft for next to nothing for years. In 2000 I directed a music video which was, counting preproduction a good six months work, and guess what, I still haven't seen a penny from that effort. I'm by no means the only one, I have a very good friend who has now worked on several independent films and he never gets paid... So he stuffs his chops by eating out the catering vans :D

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I was always impressed with Lance Le Gault.. Remember him?

The head Borillian Noman on the original Battlestar Galactica...sheriff on "Haven" (Dark Angel ep), the list goes on and on...

Fan Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:51 AM