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Originally posted by Delia:
Peace,

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Killing off Fred was majorly depressing, but the thought that she'll get back just in time to watch Wesley die is just too much (they're my 2 favorite characters).

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I have a feeling this is going to a watch the episode, crawl into the bathtub with the toaster kind of evening.

Delia

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Originally posted by ParadigmShift:

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I think that what really kills me is Wesley. I mean, his story arc has been so rich, and it's not nearly over. THe boy deserves some happiness, and to me he's been the heart and soul of this show since his introduction. The idea that he'd be killed off for a plot device just makes me feel physically ill. I know that innocents die. In fact, on these shows, I advocate it, but it simply feels cheap to me that they leave the characters who have only been in a season or less alive, and they kill the ones that actually have soul. It makes the future of the franchise look very bleak to me.

The other thing i had real problems with was the fact that the survivors are all the people who have been on magizine covers of Seventeen, Maxim, ect., and so i almsot feel that a false popularity card is being played. Call me crazy, but it feels like they're only letting the 'hotties' survive the show, which feels like something that would happen on a lesser program, but not here. Here, it's about characters, and I feel that to only leave Spike and Ilyria at Angel's side is a betrayal of the characters and the principles of the show. Ultimately, Joss' shows are about humanity, and how it relates to the world around it. TO kill off the humans seems so very contrary and wrong.

I'm sorry, but I feel like I'm hearing about the end of "Dallas" before it happened.

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"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land someplace and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork . . ."
-McCoy and Spock

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For two, Joss said in more than one interview long ago that if he ever ended Angel that he'd kill everybody off. So, when I read the news originally on Spoilerfix I wasn't that surprised. Like you, I was wandering how in the hell he planned on making a continuation of the story if everyone was dead. But, I also read on Spoilerfix that a Buffy movie was on the agenda as well. That's when it hit me. What if they bring the entire Jossverse together again like the good ol' days of Buffy seasons 2 and 3? Only now it's five years later. I always felt the more characters they brought in on the show, the more it took away from the characterization of the man himself, Angel. Take a look at season 1 of Angel, or even season 1 of Buffy, and look at the difference in his character (not to mention the physical differences). Hell, just take a look at his character differences between his appearances from Angel to Buffy. Anyway, I think it would be great if the whole big damn shindig could be brought back to it's roots. Even channel-wise, on the WB. I mean, how great would season 6 of Buffy would've been if they'd only turned it into a movie of the week? Seriously. So, with that in mind, it could be the best thing to happen to both series by doing a 2 to 6 TV movie deal. Think about it, Angel, Spike, and Conner ('cause I'm really not thinking that Illyria's gonna be hanging out afterwards even if she doesn't die. It's quite possible she could take the Senior Partners place if they succeed in taking them out, hence the next possible storyline) teamed up with Buffy, Faith, Willow, Giles, and the rest of the Scooby team. Oh wait, now that's a Scooby ARMY, isn't it? And I'd still like to see Angel or Conner, or even Spike or anybody for that matter, to slap Xander around for making some lewd comment towards the vampire champions and son. I'd like to see Conner, the one and only Destroyer, hook up with a nice Slayer. Destroyer/Slayer, I've always liked that play on words/gender. I'd like to see what happened to the psycho Slayer. Maybe Conner could help her out in some way seeing how he was once psycho. I'd like to see how the cyborg story turns out and if the new Watcher's Council really is involved. And most of all, call me sentimental, I'd like to see Angel bgecome human and walk off into the sunset with Buffy. These are all possible story points for seperate TV movies that may never come to pass, but I have hope. The only thing that worries me about the series finale of Angel is that it will be played down. That all of these important dramatic events that end these characters who have given us chills and laughs and tears (and have gotten out of several apocalypses) over the years, won't be treated as such. Anybody remember Highlander season 1 when Tess was shot by a freakin' mugger after goin' through the shit she had? That's what I'm scared of. That and chickens. 'Nuff said.

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For two, Joss said in more than one interview long ago that if he ever ended Angel that he'd kill everybody off. So, when I read the news originally on Spoilerfix I wasn't that surprised. Like you, I was wandering how in the hell he planned on making a continuation of the story if everyone was dead. But, I also read on Spoilerfix that a Buffy movie was on the agenda as well. That's when it hit me. What if they bring the entire Jossverse together again like the good ol' days of Buffy seasons 2 and 3? Only now it's five years later. I always felt the more characters they brought in on the show, the more it took away from the characterization of the man himself, Angel. Take a look at season 1 of Angel, or even season 1 of Buffy, and look at the difference in his character (not to mention the physical differences). Hell, just take a look at his character differences between his appearances from Angel to Buffy. Anyway, I think it would be great if the whole big damn shindig could be brought back to it's roots. Even channel-wise, on the WB. I mean, how great would season 6 of Buffy would've been if they'd only turned it into a movie of the week? Seriously. So, with that in mind, it could be the best thing to happen to both series by doing a 2 to 6 TV movie deal. Think about it, Angel, Spike, and Conner ('cause I'm really not thinking that Illyria's gonna be hanging out afterwards even if she doesn't die. It's quite possible she could take the Senior Partners place if they succeed in taking them out, hence the next possible storyline) teamed up with Buffy, Faith, Willow, Giles, and the rest of the Scooby team. Oh wait, now that's a Scooby ARMY, isn't it? And I'd still like to see Angel or Conner, or even Spike or anybody for that matter, to slap Xander around for making some lewd comment towards the vampire champions and son. I'd like to see Conner, the one and only Destroyer, hook up with a nice Slayer. Destroyer/Slayer, I've always liked that play on words/gender. I'd like to see what happened to the psycho Slayer. Maybe Conner could help her out in some way seeing how he was once psycho. I'd like to see how the cyborg story turns out and if the new Watcher's Council really is involved. And most of all, call me sentimental, I'd like to see Angel bgecome human and walk off into the sunset with Buffy. These are all possible story points for seperate TV movies that may never come to pass, but I have hope. The only thing that worries me about the series finale of Angel is that it will be played down. That all of these important dramatic events that end these characters who have given us chills and laughs and tears (and have gotten out of several apocalypses) over the years, won't be treated as such. Anybody remember Highlander season 1 when Tess was shot by a freakin' mugger after goin' through the shit she had? That's what I'm scared of. That and chickens. 'Nuff said.

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I have hope for Angel and Connor. It surprised me, because I loathed Connor during seasons 3 and 4; he was a one note character and I got tired of it. It was a pleasant surprise to care about him this past week.

As for Gunn, it would have to be a pretty impressive death to hit me very hard. I've never really connected with him overly much. He had some great moments, and J August Richards is great, but he's just not one of my favorites.

I think you're right about Wes; it's almost the kindest thing to do at this point, to let him die. I mean, what's left to take from him? (Of course, he could buy a used spaceship and set off for the border planets and assemble a motley crew to become a sort of second family and -- oh wait, I think that's been done.

Still, I would miss Alexis Denisof if he weren't around for the movies. And Wes is the only (non-title) character left who was there almost at the beginning (give or take 9 or so episodes). One of the things that I loved about Buffy was that little core of four (Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles) who were all still there at the end (though Giles disappeared in the middle for a while). I think AtS needs more of an anchor than just Angel. Well, maybe Cordy will find her way back. . .