Are the Angel and Buffy novels canon? by gatozhian

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Are the Angel and Buffy novels canon?

POSTED BY: GATOZHIAN
UPDATED: Friday, May 7, 2004 05:58
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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:31 PM

GATOZHIAN

Well, are they?

And what about the comics? If not, I'm not gonna fool with them. So there!

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take Wash and Book from me...

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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:27 PM

ANJIN

I know of no official word from Joss or the Mutant Enemy crowd one way or the other. However, this does bring up the larger issue of what should be considered canon in any creative endeavor. For instance, the great body of work revolving around the Star Wars universe brings up some interesting arguements. There, we find varying levels on canonicity (you get the picture).

For myself, I generally assume that unless the related materals are created directly by the original creator of the Intellectual Property, it is not canon. Regarding the Buffyverse, unless Joss wrote it or was directly involved in it, I assume that he is free to contradict the work at any time and should fell free to do so if he needs to.

On the other hand, why does it matter? They may not be official, but you might enjoy the hell out of them. And if you like them and want to integrate them into your conception of the Buffyverse, do it. Intellectual Properties have no life in and of themselves. It is your interaction and relationship with it where the magic happens.

---
Raven's Prayer
http://webpages.charter.net/anjinm

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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:03 PM

FIREFLYTHEMOVIE

I have no idea about the comic books (which I think Joss was involved with, but I've never actually seen them), but I think I've read interviews in which Joss almost flat out calls the books crap. He definitely has no involvement in them. Of course, before I read the interview, I read about 10 pages of a Buffy novel. I may just be remembering my own assessment of those 10 pages.

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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:23 PM

ANJIN

If I can make one Buffyverse recommendation though, try "Frey", written by Joss and published by Dark Horse Comics. In two words: sci-fi slayer.

---
Raven's Prayer
http://webpages.charter.net/anjinm

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:26 AM

SPOOKYJESUS

Fray's awesome - and that does seem to fit very much into the Buffyverse (the series had the first appearance of the Sith (I didn't spell that right did I?) - The fancy red axe/stake weapon thing buffy used in the last couple of episodes.

As does the Tales of the Slayers graphic novella - much of it's written by Joss, bits written by other staffers. All round good reading and I'd dare say it too fits into the buffy canon - it's just tales of past slayers.

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:50 AM

GATOZHIAN

Ok, thanks for your opinions everybody! I'll skip the novels, but I ordered the Frey GN this morning, and I'm gonna have my local comic shop hold the new Tales of the Vampires.

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take Wash and Book from me...

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:39 AM

GHOULMAN

??? ... did I stray into a fanboy Star Trek forum?

Gotta say, the Joss machine makes it almost worthwhile (and keeping with the themes of Buffy and Angel) to have some sort of 'canon'. That is - there is actual continuity from season to season, story to story.

When Xander got coaght for something he did two seasons ago I was mightily impressed. 'Kick his ass' was NOT what Willow said after all.

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:02 AM

GATOZHIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
??? ... did I stray into a fanboy Star Trek forum?

I just really dig all this and I just don't want to waste my time with anything that does not count toward the larger storyline or simply isnt any good.

No need for the fanboy comment, I just miss Buffy and want more. I'm going to try Fray and I just read Tales of the Vampires #4. Tales was pretty good and had stories from Ben Edlund and Joss himself, so I figure I'm pretty safe here!

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take Wash and Book from me...

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:15 PM

ZORIAH

Well they are not considered canon so much as an expansion on the universe. For example in a Spike/Dru novel Pretty Maids All in A Row Spike kills his third slayer. Yep that's right. However it's still an interesting read and features the idea of slayers in training - which later became a canon plotline in seventh season.

Some novels are better at getting the tone and characters right. If you like Spike then 'These Our Actors', and 'Blood and Fog' are not too bad a read.

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Friday, March 19, 2004 12:08 AM

ATHERTONWING

oh dont bypass all of the novels there is one collection that is absolultey amazing, the tales of the slayer books. They deal with past slayers as well as our own Buffy summers and whats even better is they are all penned by either Buffy writers or crew members (one is even written by todd the makeup guy on buffy.i'd say they are well worth the read as is the graphic novel of the same name. has strips penned by amber benson as well as joss himself. joss also co-wrote an Angel comic series for dark horse which i would also recommend.also a fun comic by jane espenson called 'reunion' deals with the unknown that happened when buffy met with angel during season 6 of buffy and season 3 of angel.

But by far the best comic series is Fray, joss has worked wonders yet again. and little known fact is that the word 'Ruttin' was first used in fray long before the guys in the verse were spouting it.oh and also people (inc joss) always recommend Chris golden but i personally dislike his work, i found the console games helped numb my buffy withdrawl (and when eliza dusku does faiths voice whats not to love)?

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Sunday, May 2, 2004 9:07 PM

SERENITYBOY

I would not bypass all of the books. Some of them are less than par, but i would say that about 95% of the books are great.

There are two different kinds. There are the ADULT novels : which are a little more graphic when it comes to fight scenes and blood and stuff, and much thicker, and then the TEEN books. Odly, they are all catorgarized in the "Young Adult" section of the bookstore.

Sometimes the books like to bring in the continuity of the show into it (a lot of the earlier novels mentioned events of episodes of Season 3). Some books by the same author (Christopher Golden and Nancy Holder come to mind) like to bring in continuity from their other novels! They are deffiniatly two of the best writers in the series.

MY all time favorite Buffy book is The Gatekeeper Trilogy. It is one of the first novels to be published, and I think the best out of all of the ones I have read. (I own every novel that has come out, both Teen and Adult, but have not read them all. Well Origional novels anyway, some of them that they release is just episodes novelised. For that, the script books are much more enjoyable.) But the Gatekeeper Trilogy was like reading a movie, i could see everything that was going on, and the plot spread nicely throughout the three books. The only continuity glitch was that the gang knew Angel was back from hell, accepted him, Buffy and him were quasi dating, and Cordy and Xander were still together. Oh well! cant have it all!

Some other books I recomend are Immortal, The Book of Fours, The Lost Slayer (four books, but you can buy them in one volume now), The Wisdom of War (great with Faith and the Council of Watchers), Apocolypse Memories. Monster Island is a Buffy/Angel crossover which has some awesome characterzation, including many Xander/Cordy moments that just make me grin as I read them.

I have to say though, i just got the newest novel, and it is one of the best. It is called The Darkening, and it is Part 1 of a trilogy, the Wicked Willow Trilogy. It takes place right after "Villians:" and is described as "An Alternate Universe Trilogy." It is really awesome and deals with what Dark Willow could have done if she was not stoped. Spoiler alert................................................................................................................................................................Giles is paralized! I was crying! it was so sad. And Willow did so much bad so far, and i'm not even through the first half of the book!

Like i said, some of the books I wouldnt give away just yet. Some of them, especially the ones I mentioned, are about as phenominal as the series.

And the comics really rock too!

------------------------------------------------------

When you can't run anymore, you crawl.
When you can't do that, you find someone to carry you.

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Friday, May 7, 2004 5:58 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by athertonwing:
oh dont bypass all of the novels there is one collection that is absolultey amazing, the tales of the slayer books.

also people (inc joss) always recommend Chris golden but i personally dislike his work, i found the console games helped numb my buffy withdrawl (and when eliza dusku does faiths voice whats not to love)?

I also think the short stories, the Tales of the Slayer, are wonderful, really fun.

I think the novels are a step up from fan fic...but actually not much, Chris Golden has his own POV which is really not the same as Joss' (IMO; I argued w/him at length at a convention last year), but many of his books are fun to read. I would recommend his book about Oz.

The comics are cannon, I believe, and I think Joss will be adding to them periodically.

Did you read Joss' fun new 'Tales of the Vampire' comics? He started with a Spike/Dru story and ended with an Angel one...and managed to have a Giles tie-in...very fun!

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