Well, I cried. by Geezer

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Well, I cried.

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Sunday, May 23, 2004 01:02
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 18187
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Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:16 AM

Quote:
"Personally, I want to slay the dragon" What could have been better for a knight to say?

I am in complete agreement, thought of it in almost exactly those words. I lost it when he said that. I was laughing, cheering and declaring it the best line I've ever heard end a series when I nearly fell off of my couch when the credits suddenly rolled.

There was so much perfection in this episode. Spike's getting applause for his effulgent poem was such a simple but incredibly thought out moment. Wesley and Illyria's part was awesome, and I agree that it felt right for Wesley to die. I never saw Lorne's killing Lindsay coming, and I just kind of sat there trying to figure out what had just happened. The new Connor makes me wish that guy had been in the series more often (old Connor made me angrier by the second for out whining Luke Skywalker).

My roommate told me I would really hate the WB's thank you at the end, and I figured he was wrong, that it wouldn't bother me too much. Damn he was right; they'd barely said two words of their paltry thanks and I had had enough of that nonsense.

Screw the crap that passes for television today. We've just lost something.

Kudos to everyone involved in the show though, but please give us some form of encore.

I hope you like Guinness, sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for . . . food.
-Jack O'Neill

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:17 AM

PHOENIXSHIP

It was a kind of generic, network-flavored recap of the last 5 years. Could be interpreted as a kind of back-handed nod to the SaveAngel campaign, or maybe it was a real thank you. Ironic that a series that (to WB) was deemed worthy of cancellation was given a most unusual kiss off.

Either way, it was not sufficient, obviously. It felt hypocritical.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:21 AM

INSANESPIKE

Quote:
Either way, where did the extra thirty years come from?

Remember, this math is coming from the same company that said Angel was "falling" in ratings, even when it showed something along the lines of 30% increase. I really don't think math is the WB's strong suit. The way they figure things, we're lucky they didn't advertise Angel's age as being 500.

So, in conclusion....

WB

"How drunk was I last night?"

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:45 AM

DAVCO92

Hmmm...FOX+WB...
2 by 2, hands of blue...

Burn the land, boil the sea...

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:49 AM

DELIA

Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSpike:
Remember, this math is coming from the same company that said Angel was "falling" in ratings, even when it showed something along the lines of 30% increase. I really don't think math is the WB's strong suit. The way they figure things, we're lucky they didn't advertise Angel's age as being 500.

Maybe someone took those extra 30 rating points and added them to his age?

___________________________________________
WESLEY : Feng shui.
GUNN: Right. What's that mean again?
WESLEY: That people will believe anything.

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:52 AM

INSANESPIKE

Quote:
Maybe someone took those extra 30 rating points and added them to his age?

Hmm...that would explain where they conveniently disappeared too....lol

"How drunk was I last night?"

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:23 PM

SHADOWVESSEL

Quote:
I really wanted a great uplifting Angel speech...like the ones from "Deep Down" (The Champion speech), and "Epiphany" (the speech where he finally recognizes the reality of his purpose)...(However, I have not re-watched the episode, or read a transcript of it, so I may find a monumental diatribe in there somewhere)

Would last week's episode's, the "first half" of the series finale, "revelation" speech count? I must have watched that speech five or six times while waiting for this week's final episode.

Since I'm back, there's some other things I'd like to add.

I loved the Conner tie-up. He's happy, well adjusted, knows and appreciates that Angel's his dad, and he's still a bad-ass. I feel Angel finally beat Holtz. Now I can go back and watch my Season 3 DVD's without copping a resentment after I'm through.

Looking back on Wes' death at work today, I realized something. It shows yet again how much bigger "Angel"'s balls are than "Buffy..."'s. In "Chosen" when they chose to kill off one of the group, they killed Anya. She was OK, but woopty-doo. It would've been like killing off Lorne. But what did the people at "Angel" do? They killed off the last remaining original member of the show other than Angel himself. That's just another difference between "Buffy...", and the show for grown-ups. Hell, they only killed one person and Xander lost an eye! Not counting Slayer extras. But the grown-up show... Doyle, Cordelia, Fred, Wes, Gunn (who would be dead in 10 minutes), and the immortal heroes facing impending death... I'm at a loss for words. Joss said, long ago, he would end the show one day by killing everybody off. Well, he stuck to it.

And I loved the line so much I said it again:
"Well personally, I kinda want to slay the dragon. Lets go to work." CLANG!!!

(Gorramn Double Post)

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:23 PM

SHADOWVESSEL

Quote:
I really wanted a great uplifting Angel speech...like the ones from "Deep Down" (The Champion speech), and "Epiphany" (the speech where he finally recognizes the reality of his purpose)...(However, I have not re-watched the episode, or read a transcript of it, so I may find a monumental diatribe in there somewhere)

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:42 PM

STILLSHINY

MY T-SHIRT design

give me the picture of Angel with the sword drawn.

and on the back I want this quote

"Well personally, I kinda want to slay the dragon. Lets go to work."

with the dates series beginning - series end

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:30 PM

SERENITYVALLEY

My opinion:

The poem thing was the best joke all season. I as soon as he said "buldge in" or whatever, I KNEW what word he was going to rhyme it with.

Select to view spoiler:

LINDSEY!!!! *cry* Plus, Lorne shouldn't have had to kill someone! That's sad

The ending. What the heck? Please tell me this will be resolved in TV movie(s).

Thrilled to see Anne.

Poor Wes.

Poor Markus. I didn't like the whole Harmony thing. It didn't really make any sense. Plus, we sort of already saw that sort of thing with Lindsey and Eve. Speaking of which. She didn't do much in that episode. Neither did Connor really. Joss should have surprised us with someone no one expected to see again. Maybe OZ or something.

Oh, and Lindsey's line about how he's glad Angel never touched Eve? Priceless.

http://www.simple-assault.com/Firefly.htm

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:39 PM

KARENKAY99

me too. and i had to watched it again tonight so i could cry again.

it was a pretty good show though. a little rushed like someone else said. strange how it was sort of a cliffhanger but still so finished. i keep thinking about what could happen next. so, ok guys, how ya going to get out of this one?
illyria was really ready for some more violence. did gunn really only have 10 minutes left? could angel really slay a ... ? was wesley really ...?

ol well, guess i get to make up whatever i want now.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:58 PM

MAUGWAI

Quote:
Originally posted by est120:
close. dante ran into a leopard, a lion and a she-wolf in the woods before he meets virgil in the inferno.

Well crap. I'm all wrong. I guess Lionwolf and Leopard would have been a weird name for a lawfirm.

Then what's the significance of the wolf, the ram, and the hart? Things we hunt? Is there some mythology I'm not remembering?

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:02 PM

ANKHAGOGO

Quote:
Originally posted by ShadowVessel:
Quote:
I really wanted a great uplifting Angel speech...like the ones from "Deep Down" (The Champion speech), and "Epiphany" (the speech where he finally recognizes the reality of his purpose

Actually, I was never a big fan of the speeches. I loved the simplicity of their parting -- no words, just actions. I thought it was much more moving.
And one of my very, very favourite things was Angel's attitude. He was resigned to the facthe was probably going to die horrifically, and he showed no remorse or regret at that knowledge. He made his decision and went for it, four-on-the-floor, balls-to-the-wall because he knew it had to be done.
Personally, I thought he stopped believing in the prophecy some time ago, which, to me, makes that attitude all the more admirable, because he didn't think there would be any karmic reward. He did it because (at the risk of being violently corny) it was the right thing to do. That's why he's a champion.

Quote:
Looking back on Wes' death at work today, I realized something. It shows yet again how much bigger "Angel"'s balls are than "Buffy..."'s. In "Chosen" when they chose to kill off one of the group, they killed Anya. She was OK, but woopty-doo. It would've been like killing off Lorne. But what did the people at "Angel" do? They killed off the last remaining original member of the show other than Angel himself.

I'm trying not to look back on Wes' death, cause I just start getting all weepy again. I don't know if I'd be doing that if it had been anyone else, frankly, including Angel. And I agree -- Angel has always been a harder, darker, lonlier show than Buffy, and that's why I grew to like it more. Big brass testes, indeed.

Heh. I liked it so much I sigged it.

"Well personally, I kinda want to slay the dragon."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:05 PM

KNIBBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by Delia:
... when did Angel get to be 277? In Halloween, they said he was 18 in 1775, which would put his birth in 1757, and make him 247 in 2004. He said he was 243 in Earshot, which was 1999, which would make him 248 in 2004. Either way, where did the extra thirty years come from?

Personally, I think they're 70 years short of the figure. After all, he spent 100 years in a hell dimension. If Connor can be considered 20 instead of 3, then Angel gets those extra hundred years.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:50 PM

DELIA

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
Quote:
Originally posted by Delia:
... when did Angel get to be 277? In Halloween, they said he was 18 in 1775, which would put his birth in 1757, and make him 247 in 2004. He said he was 243 in Earshot, which was 1999, which would make him 248 in 2004. Either way, where did the extra thirty years come from?

Personally, I think they're 70 years short of the figure. After all, he spent 100 years in a hell dimension. If Connor can be considered 20 instead of 3, then Angel gets those extra hundred years.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

Okay, but anyway you count it, he's not 277!

___________________________________________
WESLEY : Feng shui.
GUNN: Right. What's that mean again?
WESLEY: That people will believe anything.

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:00 PM

KNIBBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by Delia:
Okay, but anyway you count it, he's not 277!

As long as I keep my checkbook balanced, I don't care about numbers

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:14 PM

QUIXOTICONE

Just got to watch it tonight (stupid local affiliate was always a day behind)...

Really felt it was a great ending - reflecting the darker flavor of the show & its theme of "Never give up the good fight"... especially in

Select to view spoiler:

Angel signing off on the Shanshu prophecy. He realizes he didn't need its "hope" for his humanity. He'd already *had* it - his ongoing crusade & that last scene facing down the insurmountable hordes is evidence of that.

Lots of great moments in there - many already pointed out, so I won't repeat 'em... just wanted to show my appreciation to Joss & Crew - thanks to all of you!

-QO-

Gonna miss ya, Whedonverse... don't stay gone too long, ya hear?

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 7:06 PM

KUKOO

One thing that bothers me about the Connor/Angel reunion is that not once since Connor got his memories back has he asked about Cordelia. This was a woman who he killed for and was ready to kill. The last time he saw her she was in a coma, and he doesn't think to ask if she ever came out of it?

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 7:11 PM

RANGRBOB

After watching the Lindsey death scene I was wondering if perhaps that is how Josh felt when he found out he was being cancled by the WB. From what I understand it too came out of nowhere and I can see him thinking. You, You killed my show a low rated network... Angel (the character and his development or actor) is suppose to decide when the series dies not some flunky tv exec.)

Just a thought

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:24 PM

ARDEN

I just watched this one (TIVO'd), and though I'm not a faithful Angel watcher I decided to see how it all came out.

The thing I loved most (besides the Firefly reference in Spike's "Wishes and horses" line) was how willing Joss was to let the series end open like that to reinforce the theme. I think it was truly brave to not necessarily wrap everything up, but instead give us an open ending that instead reminds us that the story of Angel is about how the good fight never ends, and that there's nothing more noble than going down fighting for a good cause. To me, it says what the show truly meant: That Angel is a hero, a Champion, because he can't win but refuses to give up (as he said in his famous speech). He is owed as much or more than anyone in the world, but instead is driven to redemption.

To me, it shows that a series was truly great art when the theme is ultimately more important than the plot, and a pseudo-cliffhanger that reminds us what the show means is the way it is ended.

Bravo, cast and crew of Angel.

You got a wife? All I got is that dumbass stick sounds like it's raining.

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:11 PM

AMANDA4U

What about when Buffy put Angel in the hell dimension? Could that be where he gained those years? And even though Eve was evil, I liked what she said when Angel told he to get out of the building, after she found out that he had Lindsey killed. But now I can't remember it. And I loved the mix of tears and laughter, I wouldn't have the ending any other way. But let's put some of the anger on UPN for not giving Angel a proper last season, like they did with Buffy. Boo to the WB for bowing to conformity, and boo to UPN for not having the balls to take a stand for good (Joss Wheadon)instead of evil (network sock puppets). Okay, now that I got that out, I can focus on the big damn movie!

To Jayne-The box dropping man ape gone wrong thing.

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Friday, May 21, 2004 12:26 AM

WHOODAHN

Quote:
Originally posted by Davco92:
Hmmm...FOX+WB...
2 by 2, hands of blue...

Hmmmmm....

FoxFrog & Hart?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 21, 2004 12:21 PM

SHADOWVESSEL

Hell yeah!

I just went back and watched "Chosen" from Buffy again and got pissed off at WB all over again. Extra pissed, actually. Buffy the Vampire Slayer had a whole freakin' season to prepare for the end. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, apparently, was given a MUCH bigger budget for its finale. Technically speaking, the UPN gave Joss all that. But the WB should've taken its cue and done the same thing. You gotta hand it to the team at Mutant Enemy, though. They took what they had and they gave us something memoriable.

"Yes, thank you from everyone at the WB. We've loved having you bent over and not complaining about us not even lubing first."

More room for REALITY F

KING TV!?!?!

Someone should be hurt. Physically. And also forced to watch the retarded-ass reality programming they're trying to make so much room for.

(Gorramn Double Post)

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Friday, May 21, 2004 12:21 PM

SHADOWVESSEL

KING TV!?!?!

Someone should be hurt. Physically. And also forced to watch the retarded-ass reality programming they're trying to make so much room for.

(Gorramn Double Post)

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:02 AM

MRSKBORG

Now having watched it a second time, just to get it all clear in my head. Way to go Joss! That was one hell of a season finale.

I didn't see that whole Lorne - Lindsay thing coming but it was so good, and the look of shock on Lindsays face I had to chuckle you now.

I loved Spikes poetry rendition. WoW
I loved the Wes - Illyria/Fred story, even at the end when it made me cry.

And the last Line. Thats the way to end the season and the series, but just enough that if they want to make a film or whatever theyve got enought to work with.

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