Did Giles Send the Cyborgs? by ShadowVessel

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Did Giles Send the Cyborgs?

POSTED BY: SHADOWVESSEL
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 8, 2004 09:06
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VIEWED: 5022
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Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:26 PM

You know, this isn't as far-fetched as it may sound at first. Whoever sent them had Watcher knowledge. Giles is like the last Watcher. Nobody in the Scooby Gang trusted Angel anymore. Giles killed Glory and helped in Spike's "near dusting". He refused to help Angel when Fred died. He was sure to know Angel's possible evil influence in the Apocolypse, and we all know that Giles will do whatever needs to be done in order to get a job done. And now he has a world-wide system of unknown resources and Andrew, who once worked with the robot guy and obviously hates Angel.

EDIT: I just remembered that they didn't want him dead as much as they wanted to steal his will and control him. All the more reason to suspect Giles.

So. Far-fetched or possibility?

(Gorramn Double Post)

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:26 PM

SHADOWVESSEL

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:07 AM

2BY2

I'd love to know how the cyborgs figured into this last season AT ALL... The only thing even slightly remarkable about that episode was Wesley showing he'd sooner shoot his own father than have anything happen to Fred. But as far as the cyborgs go, I've got nothing. I thought it was going to lead up to something, but if it did, I guess I missed the payoff. It might as well have been Giles's doing. Maybe it was something that was going to be explained the following season, like Tara sabotaging Willow's demon revealing spell or Dawn's kleptomania. I guess now we'll never know. >:(

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Monday, May 24, 2004 10:07 AM

CAPTAINCDC

You may be right, but I think it is a long shot. I have no idea who sent the cyborgs, but I'm glad they did because it was one hell of a good ep.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Monday, May 24, 2004 10:47 AM

TIGERLILY

i thought the black thorn sent the cyborgs...? didn't they have their logo on them?

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Monday, May 24, 2004 5:05 PM

ARCBEATLE

Screen Caps! We need screen caps! Is it their logo???

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 1:37 AM

IDEFIX

Quote:
Originally posted by 2by2:
like Tara sabotaging Willow's demon revealing spell or Dawn's kleptomania. I guess now we'll never know. >:(

Tara sabotaged Willows spell to keep herself hidden. remember when in Family her father and brother tried to tell her that all girls in the family are demons. she didn't want Willow to find out that she is a demon.

Dawns kleptomania I think was meant as a teenage thing. a way of acting out when not properly taken care of. her mother had died, she wasn't really human, only made human to hide a mystical key. she was one messed up teenager already and then her sister died to save her, was brought back and didn't seem to care for anything or anyone. Giles left. Willow beacme magic-addicted and Tara left. there was no kind of stability in Dawns life left, so she went crazy in a way to get some attention.

don't know about Giles and the cyborgs. we'd have to ask Joss that. so if someone sees him at a Q&A that would really be a kinda neat question that probably wasn't asked over and over again already.
I can see Giles doing that, though. if Andrew was right and the scoobies didn't believe in the fang-gang anymore and I don't see why or how Andrew could have made that one up, than it's perfectly in character for Giles to deal with the problem any way he sees fit. the cyborgs seemed kinda in style and he would have more than enough knowledge of Wes to do it.

Idefix

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 2:26 AM

ARAWAEN

Pretty sure the circle of the black thorn was responsible for the cyborgs.

Arawaen

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 7:53 AM

CAPTAINCDC

I agree. I really don't think that Giles sent the cyborgs. The Black Thorn had the means, knowledge, and motive to pull off something like the cyborg attack. I also don't think Giles would have been desperate enough to do something like that. Sure they had disassociated themselves from angel and the gang, but I don't buy it that they would go after angel in that way.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 9:06 AM

GROUNDED

The whole 'Buffy & co now hate Angel & co' angle was, quite frankly, ridiculous. They didn't need a reason not to have guest appearances - they've barely had any since S2 anyway.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 10:01 AM

CAPTAINCDC

Well in the sense that Buffy & Co. were living so close to Angel & Co., I do think it was necessary to at least address the issue of why they are not helping each other. Having said that, I agree with you in that I did not buy Buffy & Co. hating Angel & Co. They didn't justify it. Angel and Buffy left each other on good terms at the end of Buffy. I don't believe that she and the rest of her cronies would start hating Angel so soon after those events without talking to him about his reasons for taking over W&H. I guess they came up with them hating angel so that they did not have to explain why the buffy gang were too busy to help every time a crisis came up in LA and vice versa. They could have handled it better.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 11:07 AM

ZEEK

I don't think Giles sent the cyborgs. I never did figure out what they had to do with anything though. They never really explained much about them.

As far as Buffy & Co. I think it should have just been explained that they were too busy with tracking down slayers and training them all to help Angel. Angel was too busy to help Buffy. It's not too hard to believe that they were preoccupied as much as he was.

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Friday, September 3, 2004 4:47 AM

IDEFIX

they never said that the scoobies hated the fang-gang. just didn't trust anymore. and from somewhere not inside the circle working for W&H was a very very weird thing to do. I had no problem with what Andrew said. he was civil enough, just reserved.

the cyborgs attack was meant to get Angel out of there against his will without actually harming him (nausea aside). and that might have been a plan of the scoobies if only to see what's really going on. if you believe someone switched sides or could have switched sides taking his will with a spell and abducting him from the environment and people you believe responsible for the problem is a good plan.

on a second notion the cyborgs seemed to do too much damaged to the rest of the gang or at least tried to for it to be a scooby plan though. one of them actually almost killed Gunn and there's no good reason for the scoobies to want that. so the assumption is probably false or the attack got out of hand.

the cyborgs were fighting the good fight before though, so they couldn't be sent by the black thorn really. if the black thorn wanted to infiltrate the fang gang with the cyborgs being good it was very poorly done and if they wanted to attack (as they did) they didn't need the cyborgs to seem to be on the good side.

someone just go ahead and ask Joss, we won't find out any other way.

Idefix

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Friday, September 3, 2004 11:30 PM

GROUNDED

Why wouldn't they trust Angel? He gave them the amulet that saved all their asses.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2004 9:06 AM

CAPTAINCDC

Exactly. I might could buy Giles, Xander, Andrew, and maybe even Dawn turning against Angel but not Buffy. Xander never trusted Angel. Giles could be swayed easily against Angel considering the torture and the killing of his girlfriend. But Buffy would not have turned on Angel so soon after he helped her. And I'm not sure Giles would be so quick to try something against Angel after how Buffy reacted to him trying to kill Spike. I think they all would have deferred to Buffy on the subject of Angel so as not to have her wrath unleashed on them if they did something to him that she did not like. I just never liked how they painted her and the rest of the gang's feelings toward Angel & Co. It did not seem true to the characters.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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