The more I watch Angel....* various spoilers* (No BDM stuff ) by AURaptor

ANGELUS ARCANUM

The more I watch Angel....* various spoilers* (No BDM stuff )

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, August 22, 2005 01:55
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VIEWED: 4289
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Saturday, July 16, 2005 4:56 AM

America loves a winner!

the more I see 'Firefly'.

I'm catching up w/ Angel by watching the dvds, via Blockbuster. Time and time again, I see glimpses of characters on Angel that I recognize on Firely. The 2 which I find the most obvious are...

Angel = Mal. Often brooding, longing for that which he'll likely never find. Only a few loyal allies around him. Constantly at odds w/ the big nasty bad folk ( W & H and/or The Powers v The Alliance. )On occasion he lets his defenses down and can be quite charming,even fun loving ?

Fred/Dana = River. Young women being locked up and dealing w/ major mental issues seems to be a Joss favorite. In Fred, we have a uniquely intellignet girl who was taken against her will to a horrific place. A place she was eventaully rescued from. Same goes for River. Dana also mirrors River in that she's got a dark side to go along w/ some wicked powers. All 3 were witness to some horror of some sort, and are prone to ramble jibberish that actually makes some kind of sense, for those who can decipher the symbolism.

I know this sort of stuff has been hashed over time and time again, but it may explain why I wasn't able to 'convert' as many fans as I had hoped. Firefly was my 1st real introdution to the Joss Whedon world. I had casually watched B and A before, but not so much that all the layers and meanings sunk in. So, when I saw Firefly, all this stuff was virtualy brand new to me. And I loved it, of course. But when I tried to get some friends of mine as excited about FF as I was, they pretty much balked. Not that they didn't like it so much, but I'm guessing to them, being HUGE B and A fans, it wasn't all that new. The lines which were spoken, the characters and such....stuff that makes Joss so unique ( in my mind, at least ) was kinda old hat to others.

This is NOT to suggest that Joss is tired/ predictable or that he's merely recycling his old material into new packaing. Not in the least. Only that he's got a certain style, which I frankly enjoy. I can stil be honest about pointing certain things... patterns and such, and still be a huge fan.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, July 16, 2005 12:28 PM

BECSTHEBEAST

i keep hearing the word shiny in angel can never remember which episodes though - but always makes me smile

'forgive my rudeness. i cannot abide useless people'

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Saturday, July 16, 2005 1:04 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by becsthebeast:
i keep hearing the word shiny in angel can never remember which episodes though - but always makes me smile

'forgive my rudeness. i cannot abide useless people'

And another thing.... I hear certain phrases and comments in Angel that evoke exactly the same. Just saw an ep from Season 3 where Cordy made mention of 'women folk and men folk'. And I know I'm hearing 'not so much ' far more than I should . Of course, this could easily segue into a thread about things which make us think of Firefly,... like how I met this dancer at a 'gentlemen's club' who bore a fair resemblence to Gina Torres..the dancer's name was - I kid you not... Ariel ( I can't make this sutff up )... but all that's been done.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:46 AM

GROUNDED

The dialogue thing is something that irritates me a little. As Angel went on, characters like Lilah (who had nothing to do with Sunnydale) were spouting Buffyisms left, right and centre.

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Sunday, July 17, 2005 11:33 AM

DIETCOKE

Joss has a very distinct way of speaking and thus writing. Is dialog is very recognizable as well as his themes.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:22 PM

MER

You know, we all went thru the similar characters thing with Buffy and FF, but not Angel...hmm..

But for one thing, Cordelia's=Jayne b/c she went to Angel's show after Buffy Sea 3 as we all know.

What other Angel Firefly characters can we do?

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Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:24 PM

DIETCOKE

Quote:
Originally posted by MER:
You know, we all went thru the similar characters thing with Buffy and FF, but not Angel...hmm..

But for one thing, Cordelia's=Jayne b/c she went to Angel's show after Buffy Sea 3 as we all know.

What other Angel Firefly characters can we do?

Well season six, Buffy was very Malish!

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, July 17, 2005 9:30 PM

EMMA

I disagree about Buffy being Mal-ish in S6, S7 yes, but S6 no.

Conversely, I agree with the idea that Fred and River are similar, I had never thought of that before but it does work.

Angel and Mal though - absolutely not, Mal is essentially a good guy trying to be good but having (occasionally) to be a bastard. Angel on the other hand is always bad and struggles to be good. He was a bad human, a bad vampire and as a vampire with a soul he becomes progressively git-like throughout B and A.

With regards to his heroes, he was heavily influenced by British sci-fi which often utilise somewhat depressing archetypes. It is therefore logical that he should do the same. There is nothing unique about the anti-hero type.

As for his style there are loads of writer/directors who are very distinctive. You can spot a James Cameron, Ridley Scott, Tim Burton in the first five minutes but in their own way they are all great. Whedon is no different and I love him for it - bring on the misery!

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:26 AM

FREDIKAYLLOW

I'm on a thread revival kick at the moment, and this seems like a good one.

I always thought of Fred as a River/Kaylee mix. River as in everything you mentioned earlier, but Kaylee because she seems to radiate innocence and cheerfulness.
I don't think (at least, I hope not) that Mal is like Buffy in either of the last two seasons. Mostly because I really dislike Buffy (the character) in those seasons. All she ever seemed to do was whine.

No Power In The 'Verse Can Stop Me

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Sunday, August 21, 2005 3:26 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Fredikayllow:
I'm on a thread revival kick at the moment, and this seems like a good one.

I always thought of Fred as a River/Kaylee mix. River as in everything you mentioned earlier, but Kaylee because she seems to radiate innocence and cheerfulness.
I don't think (at least, I hope not) that Mal is like Buffy in either of the last two seasons. Mostly because I really dislike Buffy (the character) in those seasons. All she ever seemed to do was whine.

No Power In The 'Verse Can Stop Me

Thread revival...heh heh. I like that. And I totally agree about the Fred/ Kaylee comparison. Both Kaylee and Fred come from rural roots, are generally optamistic about folks, and yet aren't utterly naive. Our lil' Kaylee has a thing for cute boys and engine rooms, while Fred had a penchant for 'weed'. (*laughs* Just saw Spin the Bottle..again yesterday ) Also, as Gunn didn't want Fred to kill the professor who sent her to Pylia, Mal was equally concerned about Kaylee using a gun in 'War Stories'.

Oh, and DUH! Fredikayllow - i JUST noticed your tag in full. Lemmie guess it's a combo of ...Fred/Kaylee/Willow ?? Am I right? Did I miss anyone?

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 21, 2005 10:57 PM

FREDIKAYLLOW

Huzzah!!! Yep, you're right. My three fave characters from my three fave shows. You'd be surprised how many people don't figure that out.
Notice how they're all the sweet, fairly innocent cheerful ones???? I think that why they're my favourites. Not constantly whining, complaining about how she can't have a normal life, going on about how hard it is to be chosen when in fact she has given up just as much as.... sorry.
I tend to get a bit carried away when I start talking about Buffy (the character). That's why I don't think Mal is like her. Big ol' difference.

No Power In The 'Verse Can Stop Me

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Monday, August 22, 2005 1:55 AM

EST120

The one phrase that I always remember, mainly because it is quite strange to me, is the comment "if wishes were horses..." or some variation. Jayne says this in one episode (I think it was "Trash"), "If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak.". In the Angel finale (Not Fade Away), Spike says "Well, wishes just happen to be horses today.". Just my 2 cents.

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