Just finished Seasons 1-5... *sniffle* by pizmobeach

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Just finished Seasons 1-5... *sniffle*

POSTED BY: PIZMOBEACH
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 08:52
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5708
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Friday, January 6, 2006 12:07 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

I just finished watching "Not Fade Away," so now I'm done

, and to be honest it does feel a lot like not having any more Firefly

. I'lm really gonna miss the cast and characters! I’m also gonna miss the crazy writers that were brave enough to try so many different things with these characters and stories, and somehow get it all to make sense in an imaginary world. Some thoughts and questions and general ramblings:

1. Tim Minear - he seemed to be around contributing until the end of season 2 - wha' happened to him? I assume he went on to do another show.

2. The last season was my favorite, and even though the conflict in the last 2 eps was a tad transparent it still worked for me. Worst part though was that the last few moments only made me want more :( So why did the show get cancelled? Was it simply lack of viewers or are there any urban Angel legends like vindictive Executive producers, etc??

3. The whole Jasmine thing was painful.

4. Smile Time was either the most daring and audacious moment in the shows run or it's most embarrassing, I'm still undecided. It was great fun to watch either way.

5. 5 seasons may have been its shelf life. Afterall, how many times can you fight the apocolypse and make it suspenseful? They kind of set the bar high in season 4 for ultra-mega-all-or-nothing story arcs. And yet, at the same time, that just makes me more curious as to what the writers would have come up with!

6. I really wanted to see where Illyria (sp) was going to go - great job A.A.

7. Loved Lorne's job in the final ep - the set even looked like a little Italian Bistro.

8. "Spin the Bottle" - great stand alone and stand out ep by JW.

9. Cordy took me a while to get used to. Connor took me a while to get used to.

10. I've seen Firefly and now Angel... is it possible for me to not watch Buffy? I have to admit in spite of the connections Buffy intrigues me only mildly.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

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Friday, January 6, 2006 12:18 PM

DAX82

It sucks doesnt it? I think the main reason the show was cancelled was to bring in the billions of viewers for stupid reality tv. The two shows that went in Angels spot were cancelled after a couple of shows too. This was a very dumb choice by the WB because Buffy just finished up with there last season. They would have had all the Buffy fans who werent yet regular Angel watchers come over for Angel season 5,6,7 etc... The show could have gone for at least 6 seasons, and probably would have ended on there terms. The Buffy Angel magazine/yearbook edition has an interview with Joss all about what had happened. ALso, what Angel season 6 was gonna be like. Its sounded really cool.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 12:52 PM

GROUNDED

"1. Tim Minear - he seemed to be around contributing until the end of season 2 - wha' happened to him? I assume he went on to do another show."

He went to Firefly with Joss, then on to Wonderfalls after Firefly was cancelled.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 1:22 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
"1. Tim Minear - he seemed to be around contributing until the end of season 2 - wha' happened to him? I assume he went on to do another show."

He went to Firefly with Joss, then on to Wonderfalls after Firefly was cancelled.

Heh heh - thx - I didn't put those 2 events any where near the same time!

I was definitely ready for season 6! Yeah, sucks.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

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Friday, January 6, 2006 5:11 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
9. Cordy took me a while to get used to. Connor took me a while to get used to.

Cordy took me a little while to get used to, but then I just loved her character. Oh, how she grew. On Buffy, she was the one you usually loved to hate, and only *occasionally* did she do something useful. On Angel, though, she really came into her own, and became an intrinsic part of the Angel Team.

Connor pretty much always annoyed me - pretty similar to how I felt about Dawn on Buffy. I understand that those characters that many of us hated aren't the real actors, they're just doing what they're told to do, and acting annoying and whiny because that's what's called for in the script. By the end of Angel, I was actually starting to like the person Connor was becoming.

Quote:
10. I've seen Firefly and now Angel... is it possible for me to not watch Buffy? I have to admit in spite of the connections Buffy intrigues me only mildly.

Is it *possible* for you to not watch Buffy? Sure, I suppose... darn near anything's possible. But if you don't watch it, you'll be missing out on some great Joss-ness. Like Angel, Buffy has its ups and downs, its great characters and its none-too-likeable ones, but it's still a heck of a ride to watch it all. Having seen some of Joss's more "mature" works (Angel, and then what I felt was his peak, Firefly), watching Buffy might feel like a bit of a chore at times - I'm speaking particularly of Season One of Buffy. It's not as up to snuff as the other two shows in a couple of areas, but S1 is only a half-season, and then it gets remarkably better. Seasons Two and Three really stand out in my book as some of the best TV ever written (alongside Angel and Firefly, of course!), and there are episodes in other seasons ("Hush" and "Once More, With Feeling" spring to mind) that are just amazing. Can you miss it? Sure, but the real question is, do you WANT to miss it? :)

Mike

Grrrrr. Arrrgghh.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 6:23 PM

AMYEL

1. Tim Minear - he seemed to be around contributing until the end of season 2 - wha' happened to him? I assume he went on to do another show.

He was the executive producer for all of season 3 (but came back to write/direct Home). Then Joss asked him to help him run Firefly. Once Firefly was cancelled, Tim decided not to go back to Angel and instead took the Wonderfalls job. From some comments Tim has made, he didn't feel a need to shift around the writers' positions again (as in, demoting Jeff Bell--the showrunner who replaced him).

2. The last season was my favorite, and even though the conflict in the last 2 eps was a tad transparent it still worked for me. Worst part though was that the last few moments only made me want more :( So why did the show get cancelled? Was it simply lack of viewers or are there any urban Angel legends like vindictive Executive producers, etc??

It's a tale of woe, that's for sure. The WB has a terrible relationship with 20th Century FOX (they own the rights to all of Joss Whedon's TV shows), so they always treated Angel rather badly once Buffy switched networks after their season 5. During Angel's 5th season, the WB hasd two upcoming pilots that they thought would "replace" the need for Angel: remakes of Dark Shadows and Lost in Space. So, they cancelled Angel (they got the notice during the filiming in the torture basement in Underneath--just a little tidbit for ya). And then neither of those shows were picked up. So in actuality, it was cancelled for nothing. Oops.

4. Smile Time was either the most daring and audacious moment in the shows run or it's most embarrassing, I'm still undecided. It was great fun to watch either way.

Go with FUNNIEST THNG EVA!! I nearly had an aneurysm once the puppet vamped out.

5. 5 seasons may have been its shelf life. Afterall, how many times can you fight the apocolypse and make it suspenseful? They kind of set the bar high in season 4 for ultra-mega-all-or-nothing story arcs. And yet, at the same time, that just makes me more curious as to what the writers would have come up with!

The writers' were going to do a post-apocalyptic story in season 6. Also, Wesley wouldn't have died.

6. I really wanted to see where Illyria (sp) was going to go - great job A.A.

Some of the Illyria story was sped up when the show go cancelled, so you can sort of see the seeds of where they would have gone with her. Illyria was going to start using the Fred persona more often to 'get by'. And 'faking' that personality was going to change Illyria, sort of from the inside. Like when Illyria was obviously upset over Wesley's death. So in season 6 it would have been like that, but slower, and with Illyria-as-Fred interacting with Wes more.

10. I've seen Firefly and now Angel... is it possible for me to not watch Buffy? I have to admit in spite of the connections Buffy intrigues me only mildly.

Personally, you might be mistaken about Buffy.

But it's not mandatory to ever see it. It is a loooooot to watch--144 episodes.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 6:42 PM

TORTIMER

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

10. I've seen Firefly and now Angel... is it possible for me to not watch Buffy? I have to admit in spite of the connections Buffy intrigues me only mildly.

I started watching Firefly first and wanted more JW and I rented the first season of Buffy. I never wanted to watch Buffy just didn't seem like my type of show. I was hooked right from the start and IMHO Buffy is my favorite TV show of all time. I do really like Firefly and also Angel but I enjoyed Buffy even more. After renting the first season and part of the second season of Buffy I ended up buying the complete 7 seasons.

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 5:02 AM

NINAB

I watched Buffy from the very first time it was aired here in the UK a long time back. I was hooked from the very start and it grew from strengh to strengh. It's amazing when i watch them over again now how different everything seems. the first season of Buffy I think is definetly the weakest compared to some of the later seasons. The whole Buffy/Angel romance (tragic lovers) thing was brillent and kind of carried the whole thing, but apart from that Joss really wrote some brillent stories (hush creeped me out but excellent). End of season 5 had me in tears (don't want to say anything else to give it away)

I also watched Angel religously when it started and loved how it was much darker but with some great comedy moments as well, even the last series bringing Spike into it and they way they played off each other is great. Now I'm totally hooked on firefly and love love it. Joss Wheadon's stuff just gets better and better.

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 7:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
I've seen Firefly and now Angel... is it possible for me to not watch Buffy? I have to admit in spite of the connections Buffy intrigues me only mildly.

You and I are in the same boat. I watched more of Angel after Firefly got cancelled. I needed my Joss fix! Then I checked out Tim Minear's short lived show, Wonderfalls. Typical, I enjoy the hell out of something,and F*X

cancells it as well. ( I suggest the DVD )

Buffy, now that's something different. Don't know why, but maybe it's the whole H.S. thing which is less appealing, or something. I know there are some fantastic episodes and such, but I'm still not ready to jump in and relive that which I know won't be continued. But you put it best... Buffy intrigues me only mildly. Hmmm.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 9:09 AM

JADEHAND

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
"1. Tim Minear - he seemed to be around contributing until the end of season 2 - wha' happened to him? I assume he went on to do another show."

He went to Firefly with Joss, then on to Wonderfalls after Firefly was cancelled.

Heh heh - thx - I didn't put those 2 events any where near the same time!

I was definitely ready for season 6! Yeah, sucks.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

Tim Minear later revamped and developed The Inside which aired during part of last summer. and Starred Katie Finneran ("Wonderfalls") and Adam Baldwin ("Firefly") among others. It too got FOXed. I read an interview somewhere with Christopher Buchanan, Executive producer of Serenity, that said he was developing a show with Tim Minear and ZOIC studios, Of course 'Developing' doesn't mean we'll ever see it. But with a team like that, I look forward to hearing more.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"He's seen too much of life And there's no going back.
The loneliness calls him, And the edge which must be sharpened,
He's losing it. And he knows.
But there's a fighter in his mind and his body's tough
The years have been unkind, but kind enough." -Ocean Cloud (Marbles) -Marillion

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 10:50 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Jadehand:
Tim Minear later revamped and developed The Inside which aired during part of last summer. and Starred Katie Finneran ("Wonderfalls") and Adam Baldwin ("Firefly") among others. It too got FOXed. I read an interview somewhere with Christopher Buchanan, Executive producer of Serenity, that said he was developing a show with Tim Minear and ZOIC studios, Of course 'Developing' doesn't mean we'll ever see it. But with a team like that, I look forward to hearing more.

Dragonfly!

Seriously, hard not to think SciFi if Zoic is involved - that's sounds very interesting!

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 3:45 PM

JADEHAND

yeah I hope it works out. see this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13163&newsid=0
for a link to the interview that contains this quote:
Chris Buchanan: I’m just starting up a new company, and right now, I’m out pitching television, because it’s that time of year. I’ve got a project with Zoic and Tim Minear that we’re really excited about. We’re taking it out in the next couple weeks, and we’ll see if it sticks!

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"He's seen too much of life And there's no going back.
The loneliness calls him, And the edge which must be sharpened,
He's losing it. And he knows.
But there's a fighter in his mind and his body's tough
The years have been unkind, but kind enough." -Ocean Cloud (Marbles) -Marillion

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 9:46 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Jadehand:
yeah I hope it works out. see this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13163&newsid=0
for a link to the interview that contains this quote:
Chris Buchanan: I’m just starting up a new company, and right now, I’m out pitching television, because it’s that time of year. I’ve got a project with Zoic and Tim Minear that we’re really excited about. We’re taking it out in the next couple weeks, and we’ll see if it sticks!

You could read into that quote/action that he and Minear and Zoic are not committed to *other* things... like a Firefly continuation.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 9:50 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
I've seen Firefly and now Angel... is it possible for me to not watch Buffy? I have to admit in spite of the connections Buffy intrigues me only mildly.

You and I are in the same boat. I watched more of Angel after Firefly got cancelled. I needed my Joss fix! Then I checked out Tim Minear's short lived show, Wonderfalls. Typical, I enjoy the hell out of something,and F*X cancells it as well. ( I suggest the DVD )

Buffy, now that's something different. Don't know why, but maybe it's the whole H.S. thing which is less appealing, or something. I know there are some fantastic episodes and such, but I'm still not ready to jump in and relive that which I know won't be continued. But you put it best... Buffy intrigues me only mildly. Hmmm.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

I did see the first season of Buffy and after the last episode felt like, "ok, I gave it a try." There were some very good moments but I agree, the HS stuff and SMG made the watching difficult at times.
But on the other hand it's always going to be sitting there tempting me...who are we kidding? I'm going to watch the series at some point just not sure how.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

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Monday, January 9, 2006 3:53 AM

GORRAMREAVERS

Quote:

I did see the first season of Buffy and after the last episode felt like, "ok, I gave it a try." There were some very good moments but I agree, the HS stuff and SMG made the watching difficult at times.
But on the other hand it's always going to be sitting there tempting me...who are we kidding? I'm going to watch the series at some point just not sure how.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

I hope folks dont judge Buffy on S1. It really doesnt take off till 1/2 way thru the 2nd season. Its fun to go back and see how it all started but I wouldnt play a S1 episode to get someone into Buffy.

I started watching Buffy at the begining of S4 on FX (the gang was out of HS at that point) and about 1/2 way thru S5 when I went out and got S2-3 on DVD (they didnt have S1 at bestbuy that day).

That said, Buffy is amazing and worth watching so starting at the begining is the best way to go. However, if you 'need to get hooked right away', start with one of the later seasons.

"..it is my very favorite gun."

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Monday, January 9, 2006 3:59 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I've seen Firefly and now Angel... is it possible for me to not watch Buffy? I have to admit in spite of the connections Buffy intrigues me only mildly.

I really have to tell you,
Buffy is amazing, Joss' greatest work was on Buffy.
Firefly is a more interesting world, but Joss never had the opportunity to completely develop it
(even with the movie)
But Buffy was a fully realized 'verse'
I suggest that if you haven't seen:
'Once More With Feeling' - Season 6 of Buffy
or
'Hush' - Season 4 of Buffy
then you don't know what a brilliant writer Joss Whedon really is....

a lot of people were not interested in Buffy because they saw that movie,
the movie was NOT Joss' work!
They destroyed his script by camping it up and then ad-libbing their way through it
(this was the reason why Joss became such a control freak)

So really...you've got to give Buffy a chance!

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Monday, January 9, 2006 6:20 AM

MER

(About the Buffy movie) GAHH my nerve!!!
I love that movie, but it makes me angry they butchered it and everybody's all "lalee da"

Anyway, I see Buffy as appealing toward a younger crowd who will gradually grow as the show continue.
I've been watching that show since HS so once Angel came on, I was perfect for that age target.

Plus personally in Buffy I see that as "Monster-go kill" while in Angel it's "Is the Monster evil? B/c if so, I must kill it"

Buffy has a place in my heart, but I like Angel more...only b/c of it's capibility to show that not everything is what it seems...plus due to personal reasons, Buffy's personality kind of erks me sometimes.

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Monday, January 9, 2006 10:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Plus personally in Buffy I see that as "Monster-go kill" while in Angel it's "Is the Monster evil? B/c if so, I must kill it"

Buffy has a place in my heart, but I like Angel more...only b/c of it's capibility to show that not everything is what it seems...plus due to personal reasons, Buffy's personality kind of erks me sometimes

Me thinks you nailed it. Well said, well put.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, January 9, 2006 11:58 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by amyel:
6. I really wanted to see where Illyria (sp) was going to go - great job A.A.

Some of the Illyria story was sped up when the show go cancelled, so you can sort of see the seeds of where they would have gone with her. Illyria was going to start using the Fred persona more often to 'get by'. And 'faking' that personality was going to change Illyria, sort of from the inside. Like when Illyria was obviously upset over Wesley's death. So in season 6 it would have been like that, but slower, and with Illyria-as-Fred interacting with Wes more.

Thank-you for the answers you posted.

Where do I read more about a what-might-have-been season 6?

The more days I get away from seeing the last episode of Angel... the closer I get to watching Buffy.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

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Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:32 AM

KIDCONGOPOWERS

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I did see the first season of Buffy and after the last episode felt like, "ok, I gave it a try." There were some very good moments but I agree, the HS stuff and SMG made the watching difficult at times.

You really shouldn't judge "Buffy" by the first season. It is by far the weakest one, and they hadn't really found the "formula" yet. The show took a turn in the second half of S2 and got darker, edgier, and most importantly; a lot better after that.

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Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:52 AM

GROOSALUGG

I agree with KidCongoPowers - S1 was their weakest effort (maybe tied with S7); I hate to say this, because I love the show so much, but S1 had more than a little "Saved By the Bell" to it. S2 gets much, much better (save for the occasional stinker like "Reptile Boy"), and by the end of that year they'd really found their stride.

I'd recommend giving it one more shot. If you finish S2 and still are less-than-impressed, then the show's probably not for you. But if it does grab you, then some of the best episodes are still to come!

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