I finally saw season 5 of ANGEL by reginaroadie

ANGELUS ARCANUM

I finally saw season 5 of ANGEL

POSTED BY: REGINAROADIE
UPDATED: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:52
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5399
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Sunday, September 17, 2006 2:18 PM

Well, I finally saw it. After waiting for months at the library, season 5 of ANGEL finally came in. I was curious as to whether or not it would live up to the hype I hear from you guys about it being the best season of them all.

Well, I'm listening to the commentary track to "Not Fade Away" right now, still high from the series finale. I gave up my weekend for this set, and I am so proud of it.

The funny eps were funnier ("Smile Time" was great, but "The Woman in Question" was a really funny Angel/Spike/catch up with the Buffy crew ep), the dramatic scenes were even more gut wrenching (Fred's transformation to Illyara and all it accompanied was really moving, and Cordelia's farewell was really sad) and the final scnee in the alley with all the monsters charging them and Angel's last line of "Let's go to work." was priceless.

I'm wondering if the BUFFY Season 8 comics coming out next month will tie in with ANGEL season 5?

Chris, I'm ready for ya. Let's geek out over the season.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Monday, September 18, 2006 7:19 AM

EMBERS

I'm so glad you saw this,
I really think that Mutant Enemy got to do some wonderful things in this final season:
Fred's transformation into Illyria was electrifying,
and fit so well w/the on-going theme of Angel losing his direction/being hollowed out and empty...
there was a lot of subtle stuff throughout this season,
and personally I loved the finale:
the open ended fight, which represents the fact that Angel never gets to stop fighting,
it is never over...there is no rest for the wicked.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I had to own it. Fred to Illyria was brutally sad and awesome at the same time. ( LOVE how Amy pulled of playing Illyria! )

Cordy's farewell was beautiful, I thought. 'Where's Conner ? ' - Who ?

Loved the scene where Angel is looking at the video of Doyle. Someone on here said it was a 'forced' moment, but I thought it was touching and very thoughtful.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:43 PM

DANNIISUPERNOVA

I especially liked the Adam Baldwin cameo. But this is definately my favorite season. I love Illyria and especially the final episode. Absolutely fantastic.

I like the Castro because I know that when somebody is grabbing my ass, they're picking my pocket.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:10 PM

LADYSINGS

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Loved the scene where Angel is looking at the video of Doyle. Someone on here said it was a 'forced' moment, but I thought it was touching and very thoughtful.

Actually, I thought this scene was definitely NOT forced and was especially poignant since Glenn was actually gone and that David was a friend of his. It brings to mind the statement...."No acting required."

"Well ya know, we studied bludgeoning in the academy first year but by the time you graduate, you just forget everything. I'm a bad cop." ----Laurence Dobson

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:34 PM

EMBERS

Ladysings: you took the words out of my mouth,
I found it extremely moving, and very true both to the characters and RL.

I have to admit Wesley dying (and letting Illyria 'lie' to him) was more moving than Fred's death...
but that was just me.

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:14 AM

LADYSINGS

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
I have to admit Wesley dying (and letting Illyria 'lie' to him) was more moving than Fred's death...but that was just me.

You know, it's funny. It took me the longest time to wrap my head around the concept that Fred's soul was TOTALLY gone and therefore Wesley would not be with her again in "heaven". (and also when I first saw the scene of Fred's death, it was like being kicked in the chest....and I couldn't watch it again for sometime without blubbering uncontrollably.) Therefore, Fred's death scene was more moving to me. But now that I have finally realized what Illyria REALLY meant when she said, "Would you like me to lie to you now?"....that scene has much more meaning for me.

"Well ya know, we studied bludgeoning in the academy first year but by the time you graduate, you just forget everything. I'm a bad cop." ----Laurence Dobson

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:24 AM

EMBERS

oh I'm still hoping that Wes & Illyria will be together again on Earth....
see in MY scenerio Wesley will be raised from the dead, as a zombie by his Father (who always wanted control over his son...and what better way? Besides remember when we learned that child Wes tried to raise a dead bird back to life? Whose books do you think he was reading?)
so anyway:
Zombie Wesley will be raising havoc, and of course Giles & Buffy want to kill him (they never liked him) so of course Angel & Illyria (and maybe Spike) come to figure out a way to rescue Zombie Wesley and bring him back to some kind of independent undead type life (maybe Willow will take pity and put his soul back in him?)

You can see I've given this some thought.
LOL

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:30 AM

LADYSINGS

....well believe you me, I am glad that you have! I am so frickin' upset that Wesley is gone. He was one of my favorite characters in both the Buffy/Angel 'verse. Now, can you apply this concept to Wash?!?!? LOL

"Well ya know, we studied bludgeoning in the academy first year but by the time you graduate, you just forget everything. I'm a bad cop." ----Laurence Dobson

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:50 AM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by LadySings:
You know, it's funny. It took me the longest time to wrap my head around the concept that Fred's soul was TOTALLY gone

I still don't buy that. I mean, what source did that info come from? The creepy doctor. Why are we supposed to believe he's an expert on it? He wasn't even one of Illyria's accolytes, the way Knox was, was he? He'd just been paid off to carry out part of the plot--giving Gunn the upgrade in exchange for getting the sarcophogus out of customs.

And since the gang just bought it, and didn't do any further investigating on their own, who knows what the real story might be?

One of the rumors I remember hearing back when the show was ending was that in Joss' plans for S6, the gang was supposedly going to find some way to 'separate' Fred from Illyria, and Amy would then have played dual roles...

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by LadySings:
....well believe you me, I am glad that you have! I am so frickin' upset that Wesley is gone. He was one of my favorite characters in both the Buffy/Angel 'verse. Now, can you apply this concept to Wash?!?!? LOL

I've yet to meet early Wes via Buffy, but the change and growth I saw in him over time in Angel was amazing. The whole 'sleeping w/ the enemy' thing he had w/ Lilah was simply great. I truly hated to see him die, thinking that somehow Illyria would 'fix ' him. When she asked if he wanted her to lie to him,... ouch.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Quote:
Originally posted by LadySings:
You know, it's funny. It took me the longest time to wrap my head around the concept that Fred's soul was TOTALLY gone

I still don't buy that. I mean, what source did that info come from? The creepy doctor. Why are we supposed to believe he's an expert on it? He wasn't even one of Illyria's accolytes, the way Knox was, was he? He'd just been paid off to carry out part of the plot--giving Gunn the upgrade in exchange for getting the sarcophogus out of customs.

And since the gang just bought it, and didn't do any further investigating on their own, who knows what the real story might be?

One of the rumors I remember hearing back when the show was ending was that in Joss' plans for S6, the gang was supposedly going to find some way to 'separate' Fred from Illyria, and Amy would then have played dual roles...

W/ out going to the DVDs to double check, I seem to recall that folks at W&H were trying stop Fred from Illyria's infection, but there was nothing they could do to stop it. That was the whole point of the ep SHELLS. That everything on the inside, meaning the soul, which made Fred who she was was being obliterated by Illyria. And yet fragments ( mental images, thoughts ? ) remained. Dunno if what remained was sufficent enough to reconstruct Fred's soul. But hey, Darla was summoned back from the grave and was reinstated as a human. Why her soul wasn't destroyed, it certainly had been absent from her body for a very long time. So who knows?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:21 PM

REGINAROADIE

The transformation of Wes was one of the things that really drew me into the series. How he started out still as the prat he was on BUFFY ("ROUGE demon hunter!!") and then evolved into the kick-ass warrior. And I was incredibly heart broken to see him being cast out from the gang during most of Season's 3 and 4. I got a rush during "Apocalypse Nowish" when Angel tossed Wes the axe, basically accepting him back into the gang. And I kept waiting for him and Fred to get together, because in my mind they seemed like a better match than Fred and Gunn. I was never too big a Gunn fan. Oh well, better late and for ten minutes of an ep and a roleplay lie in the end than never.

I loved the "Spin the Bottle" ep so much because after we've seen Wes basically become even darker and broodier than Angel, if that's at all possible, you got to see the old Wes that won our hearts in the first place.

**************************************************
"I have no reason to believe you and every reason not to."
"Why's that?"
"You work in television."

STUDIO 60 ON THE SUNSET STRIP

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Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:46 AM

CHRISISALL

Spike and Angel in Destiny blew me away; Handsless Spike still freaks me out; Andrew a Watcher???
Priceless!
Great season. On Nov. 28 the Angel slim sets come out- I may have to expand my Angelic knowledge...

3&4 virgin Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:34 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:

I'm wondering if the BUFFY Season 8 comics coming out next month will tie in with ANGEL season 5?

It happens along side of and after it, and some tie in is expected, as Joss said Angel and Spike would make 'appearances'. And they're out in (supposedly) March of 2007- anyone got a more solid date?

Just got the slim set of S5. Goin' thru it these days. Just too cool. Best TV this side of FF.

Corporeal Chrisisall

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Friday, December 29, 2006 4:12 AM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

I think it's the 7th of march, that's for you guys though, don't know if it will be out here then or if I'll have to wait for them to ship it over

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Friday, December 29, 2006 7:27 AM

CHRISISALL

Charlie, with the info, as always.

Thanks luv, Chrisisall

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Friday, December 29, 2006 11:11 AM

ZORPRIME01

I like Angel S5, but I still think you guys overrate it quite a bit.

Obviously, there are a lot of things to like, such as the Spike/Angel bantering, Ilyria, the return of Lindsey, 110% improved Connor, and a touching moment with Cordy. But I still can't help but feel that S5 had way more filler than either S2 or S3.

Even though it would've been nice to get a little more closure, the series had a great ending, and most of the eps leading up to it. My problem is with the beginning... It just seems like nothing of much importance really happens for the first half of the season, other than Spike appearing. And many of the events of the things that at one time might've held more weight now seem forced.

Again, not saying S5 is bad, I still love it. I just don't think it's the best Angel season by a long shot.

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak." - Jayne

"Looks like wishes are horses today." - Spike

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Friday, December 29, 2006 11:26 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

This probably isn't the thread to say this but......

I couldn't stand season five. Just felt really, severely contrived.

*runs for the hills*

www.cirqus.com

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Friday, December 29, 2006 11:41 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I couldn't stand season five. Just felt really, severely contrived.

WHAT!!!????
I thought you were a fan of Angel!
You thought season 4 was better????

(did I bold and underline enough to appear angry?)

You know, I found Angel as a series to be incredibly contrived. I didn't mind that; Buffy gave me a natural (if sometimes disturbing) flow that Angel had a hard time with. The very concept of demons as commonplace among us outside the Hellmouth is a big gear to shift to pull on us after what was supposedly established in Buffy.

Admit it Somnam, you just dont fancy Spike, that's it, right?

Souled Spike rules Chrisisall

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Friday, December 29, 2006 12:07 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I couldn't stand season five. Just felt really, severely contrived.

WHAT!!!????
I thought you were a fan of Angel!
You thought season 4 was better????

(did I bold and underline enough to appear angry?)

You know, I found Angel as a series to be incredibly contrived. I didn't mind that; Buffy gave me a natural (if sometimes disturbing) flow that Angel had a hard time with. The very concept of demons as commonplace among us outside the Hellmouth is a big gear to shift to pull on us after what was supposedly established in Buffy.

Admit it Somnam, you just dont fancy Spike, that's it, right?

Souled Spike rules Chrisisall

Ha!

Well no season four was no better as a whole especially after the connor cordelia body meld thing! Then it went zaro-bi.

The Spike thing highlights the 'severity' of the contrivances. Of course the Joss world's of Buffy and Angel have their contrivances - and there is always an argument to say there are no definable boundaries to just how far a contrivance can go. (Fred turning to Illyria(sp) but if you do that, you run the risk of self indulgence. Now I know folks' love the paroxide one (Spike) but face it - he is a Joss 'self indulgence'. If you think back to the IMPACT that Spike's character had on season two of Buffy when you first watched it - it was significant and powerful and in tune with the emotions of watching this fantastic show that you had no idea where it was going.

However, when he returns later in season three, it's like:
"Hang on what was all that I just went through in season two?"

The mythos is being re-drawn! It's not on. It's akin to Lucas going back to the original Star Wars and adding Jabba the hut!!!!

Thereafter the writers/producers insistence and shoe-horning in of the Spike character really limited the scope with which the show would go. And those limitations resonated into season five of Angel.

Angel had a strength of it's own and the seasons prior had worked very hard in establishing it's own identity, and it was working. But then BANG! here is Spike and you know we're basically in a Buffy spin-off. Damn! And frankly it took so long for an explanation that when it came it felt so false. False that a simpleton like Lindsey, had the powers to do things like this - YET how the hell can an organisation like Wolfram and Hart fail to bring back lost souls?

Don't get me wrong there was some brilliant comedy born out of Spike, but really, imagine where the show could have gone with imagination, and newer characters and less back patting.

www.cirqus.com

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Friday, December 29, 2006 12:18 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

Angel had a strength of it's own and the seasons prior had worked very hard in establishing it's own identity, and it was working. But then BANG! here is Spike and you know we're basically in a Buffy spin-off.

In a way, all that you say here is correct. But two things:
1) Angel and Spike had a history.
2) Fans of Spike don't care WHERE he's shoe-horned in, just that he's in.

Frankly, I think Joss used to shoot from the hip, and the result was inconsistancy, even if it was interesting. With FF, he had a major, multi-season story mapped out, and that served it well (and would have served it in the long run, but, well, you know...).

(to the tune of 'Hair')Give me a head with peroxide, white, beautiful peroxide...Chrisisall

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Friday, December 29, 2006 12:30 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

1) Angel and Spike had a history.
2) Fans of Spike don't care WHERE he's shoe-horned in, just that he's in.

In Ref:

1)Just think, these guys are hundreds of years old. Think of the 'other' wealth of history that was never touched upon. That is what was so fascinating about them.

2) Then give him a show of his own.

As I have said before Buffy/Angel or Spike - The Vampire Slayers, Slayer or should that be layer....

This made me chuckle Big 'C' :
(to the tune of 'Hair')Give me a head with peroxide, white, beautiful peroxide...Chrisisall

Ok I think I've rubbed enough Angel season 5 fans up the wrong way for now I'll take my leave...

The Somnambulist... Exits left of stage.

www.cirqus.com

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Friday, December 29, 2006 1:39 PM

LADYSINGS

Quote:
Originally posted by zorprime01:

My problem is with the beginning... It just seems like nothing of much importance really happens for the first half of the season, other than Spike appearing. And many of the events of the things that at one time might've held more weight now seem forced.

Again, not saying S5 is bad, I still love it. I just don't think it's the best Angel season by a long shot.

The reason that the beginning of season 5 of Angel seemed slow-moving or unimportant was because of the WB....they wanted the episodes to be more "stand-alone" than "arc-ish". They were hoping that this would allow more new fans to become interested in the show. But I think that Joss & Co. moved away from this concept towards the middle/end of the season, which is why I believe it got better after that.

Does this make any sense?

"Well ya know, we studied bludgeoning in the academy first year but by the time you graduate, you just forget everything. I'm a bad cop." ----Laurence Dobson

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Friday, December 29, 2006 1:44 PM

JWHEDONADDICT

I find this so bizarre. It just seems like people (in general, not just on this board) found Fred's death more sad than Cordy's. Not that there would be anything actually wrong with that, I just know from my own experience, it was the total opposite for me.

Let me explain, for those who may be confused about my point.

As a BUFFY fan since Day 1, Cordelia was a character I never expected to care about. Amusing as she was, I thought it was insane that Joss and David Greenwalt were going to bring her to ANGEL. From the time she said to Angel in the first episode at the Hollywood party that she should be talking to people that ARE somebody, I ate my own words. Not only did she bring humor and light to an otherwise depressing world, but in the following years she grew from shallow bitch to complicated heroine. This isn't news to anyone who's seen both shows, obviously. Still, I didn't truly get how much I cared about this character until she was gone. I went through denial, anger, grief, the whole bit. About a TV CHARACTER, for crying out loud!!! (example: Why couldn't Cordy's new "path" be about leaving town--as I originally believed--because she couldn't live with Angel's decision to work for W&H?) Anyway, I didn't get this bad over Doyle, Joyce, Tara, Spike, Fred, Wes, or even Buffy herself. The closest to that actually was the end of the series itself, because the cancellation was so unexpected and undeserved.

That said, I remember reading an article in TV Guide about a week before "Not Fade Away" aired that mentioned the death of at least one member of Angel's team, and at this point I think I was just numb over the thing as a whole but somehow I just KNEW who it was. Of all the characters left, who's death would have the most impact, would hurt the most? Easy, if you know how Joss thinks. It never entered my mind at all that it would be an immortal, so right away I knew it was Wes. But by this time, I was so numb over the whole thing that Wes's death didn't have as much impact as it should have at the time.

I guess this could explain my feelings over Fred's death, too. Cordy's took so much out of me, it numbed me to Fred.

Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble.

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Friday, December 29, 2006 4:59 PM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

I was much more uspset over cordy as well, because I grew to love her slowly like you said jwa...

fred was alright, I liked her but I didn't love her. she could be a bit annoying the way everyone loved her right from the beginning with her faux wide-eyed innocence and blatant eating disorders (that is such a cliche male fantasy, a woman who looks anorexic but eats tons of junk food

)

oooh, unleashing the inner cordelia there

I do cry when I watch her death, it was very well done, and I'm crying for wesley as much as her, but I missed cordy so much more... still do.

plus illyria was way cooler than fred

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Saturday, December 30, 2006 6:46 AM

DEEPGIRL187

I think that people feel that Fred's death was sadder than Cordy's because how much attention was placed on it. Cordy was barely mentioned after she died, whereas Fred's death was an arc in and of itself.

I always thought that it was a crime against humanity to pretty much ignore Cordelia's passing. I mean, here's someone that's been with Angel since the beginning, who was the glue that held the group together (not to mention that Angel was supposed to be in love with her; it makes "The Girl In Question" that much more insulting).

Don't get me wrong, I loved Fred. She was kind of a bright light for the group, much like Kaylee. But Cordelia should have ranked much higher than her.

*************************************************

"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sense, we couldn't react to a lot of life."

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:28 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
(not to mention that Angel was supposed to be in love with her; it makes "The Girl In Question" that much more insulting).

Yeah, I have a real problem with that ep, just watched it last night in fact, I think it's season five's worst show, on a number of levels. If SMG actually appeared in it it would have at least had the Buffy factor going for it. As it was, it was The Two Stooges.

Harsh Chrisisall

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:52 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

I think I finally get the reason(s) why Cordy's death was barely mentioned in last eps. Angel was forcing himself (as he did with Buffy's "death") to move on, thereby honoring her. He also had other things going on to distract him, like running W & H, Spike, taking care of the rest of his family and trying to save Fred, fighting the good fight, Nina the werewolf, and oh yeah, becoming a puppet, etc. To dwell too much on her death would make it impossible to do any of these things.

As for the rest of her friends...Fred had to focus on finding a cure for puppet cancer and dying herself. Wes wasn't real vocal about Lilah's death either, although, he clearly felt it so his nonreaction makes a tiny bit of sense. Spike and Cordy weren't really friends, and Harmony's technically evil. Gunn and Lorne, I don't really get why they never mentioned it, possibly to each other. Connor should have at least asked about her, I think.

As for "Girl in Question" it's never been my favorite ep, but I'm looking at it with a different perspective since learning the TRUTH behind Buffy & the Immortal, from the BUFFY Season 8 comic. There was a link on Whedonesque about a week ago that had pages from it, one of which explained it all. If you're okay with being spoiled, check it out.

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