RE: by KayleeforQueen

a) since when has a character dying been final in the jossverse?

b) you do understand the matter of charisma carpenter choosing to not renew her contract, right?

c) it's joss's show. they can do with their stories what they please.

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Saturday, February 7, 2004 11:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by KayleeforQueen:
If you were unhappy with the decision to kill off Cordelia, ways are starting to pop up to protest that decision.
Is anybody aware of any other ways to protest the Cordelia situation and encourage Joss to fix it that I didn't post? For that matter, does anybody have any ideas for any other ways?

"fix it"? Now, not having seen the episode, I don't know whether it was done well or badly, but doesn't sound like it was broke. As I recall, Charisma wanted to leave the series, and they had nowhere else for the character to go.

Given the show continued with her gone, I doubt JW will read fanboys and girls protests and realise the "error of his ways".

You have to assume Charisma didn't care too much, given she could have chosen not to come back for the episode. Then again, there is always the General Hague method...

"I threw up on your bed"

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Saturday, February 7, 2004 3:04 PM

KALATHENA

Gosh, if I'd have known this kind of thing worked I would have started a letter campaign to George Orwell when he was alive. I always thought the ending of 1984 was far too sad.

Some people need real lives.

--Kala

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kalathena:
Gosh, if I'd have known this kind of thing worked I would have started a letter campaign to George Orwell when he was alive. I always thought the ending of 1984 was far too sad.

You see, I think its selfish that we don't get our own version of every film and TV show. I don;t mean every episode, but if we really don't like something (I mean *really* don't like, we should not abuse this privilege), we write to them and they will re-film it the way we wanted. Seems reasonable to me.

But heck, I'm still smarting over the fact they changed Snuffalopaguss on the Streetwithout audience consultation.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tigerLily:
a) since when has a character dying been final in the jossverse?

For purely contractual reasons, Tara. Damned annoying that one.

Quote:

b) you do understand the matter of charisma carpenter choosing to not renew her contract, right?[/b/

Your point? Surely if enough people write she will put down whatever she is doing and go and film lots of new episodes. Joss will throw out the scripts that are written because they don't have CC in them and hence are wrong. Then, for the DVD release, he will replace Harmony with Cordelia using CGI, and in the bar scene, Greedo will shoot first.

Quote:

c) it's joss's show. they can do with their stories what they please.

*best whiny voice* but they owe us. Before each season they should send questionnaire's out and make sure that the scripts deal with each individual viewer's opinions in every scene of every episode.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 12:56 PM

VENA

She wanted out so I say let her out.

Sides, the way they did it was more than PERFECT! I didn't really like her character to begin with (Just me) but the way things went down I was uber sad to see her go. It was the kind of ep that reminds you why we all love Joss's writing, why we are hopeless fanboys&girls hanging on his every word.

Don't, DO NOT, spoil that kind of gracefuly perfect exit by demanding she come back.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mal:"someone ever ties to kill you, you try to kill'em right back!"

http://stripe.filetap.com/

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 1:04 PM

TALONPEST

She's been gone all season already, and things have gone on just fine.

Besides, Joss has said in many an interview that he LIKES to piss off the fans by doing something they don't like once in a while.

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 1:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Talonpest:
Besides, Joss has said in many an interview that he LIKES to piss off the fans by doing something they don't like once in a while.

Exactly. What's the point in getting rid of someone nobody cares about?

The only debate for me is whether its done "right", which is a matter of opinion. For me, they didn't quite get it with Tara - it was sudden, fine, but should have felt a bit bigger (and after someone suggested it, I wanted "I'm Under Your Spell's notes to play in the background which would have added so much)

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 1:13 PM

INVISIBLEGREEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Vena:
She wanted out so I say let her out.

Since when did she want out? In her Washington Post interview, she said that being asked to leave "Angel" was a very shocking moment for her.

Although I am upset that Cordy is dead, I think starting an internet petition for this is stupid. "You're Welcome" was the most emotionally intense hour of television I have ever seen, so I am almost glad they killed her off.

Best of luck to Charisma for finding a sitcom or action-hero role; I'm sure she'll be great in anything she does.

Charisma Carpenter is one of the best actresses of all time, and while she brought a lot of spunk and charm to the show, it can continue without her. "Angel" has a great cast, crew, and production team that will continue to tell great stories.

To me, "Angel" is the only show on television worth watching (at least until "Wonderfalls" premieres on March 12), but I can continue watching the show without television's greatest character ever.

R.I.P.
Cordelia Chase
1981-2004

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 2:12 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

I suspect Cordy will be back in three years, recast in Angel the movie.

Select to view spoiler:

Buffy goes bad and Wolfram & Hart go to Europe to take her out. SMG repises her role as she is offered nothing but Scooby Doo 3 in the meantime and Freddy runs off with another mouthpiece with larger breasts. Filmed on location in Rome, the bloodbath brings together the cast of both shows culimating in the momment when Spike and Angel toss Buffy into the Rome hellmouth ( under the colisium ) trapping her forever ( until the sequel )

Joss could write anything he wants,

AS LONG AS THE FIREFLY SCRIPT ROCKS

" Thats not fair !!!!
I didn't even have a soul when I did that!"

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 7:15 PM

heehee. good call!

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 7:21 PM

i read that article. (the washington post interview) and if you actually read it, very carefully, it seems (to me anyways) that the writer has twisted her quotes to make it seem as if she was "fired'. she never actually is quoted as saying anything of the sort. the quotes about her being "shocked" could have as easily been referring to the direction her character was going, or any number of things. i feel that "interview" article was very misleading.

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 7:24 PM

STEVE580

Good thing that was put as a spoiler, Gino. Wouldn't want to ruin it for people

Tara - that was because she wanted to leave, not because Joss wanted her dead?!? Oh, That's so good! Every other charactor that's ever left a Whedon show - be it by death or otherwise - they've always gone out...well, tastefully I guess is the word. I've been upset that they died, sure, but never...I don't know. I guess I've just always questioned Whedon's decision to remove Tara, and particullarly the manner in which she left. A random bullet?

But it wasn't his chosing?
-STeve

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 7:58 PM

DTT

Okay, to pull this even further off topic and maybe draw some death threats, I like the way Tara died on Buffy. It was real. No warning, no romantic music, just a lights out. Fast, shocking, simple, and denying the time for any reaction but surprise. And just like the real thing, it's left you all feeling cheated, like there should have been something more to it. I also see anger and the sense that the character was ripped out of the action before her time. I think that was perhaps one of the best moments in Buffy.

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Sunday, February 8, 2004 8:12 PM

i totally agree, dtt.

just when i thought joss would never surprise me again, he came up with seomthing so beautifully simple and horrible and great.

"your shirt..."

totally wrecked me for the rest of the week. it could not possibly have been more emotionally charged and believeable.

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Monday, February 9, 2004 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tigerLily:
totally wrecked me for the rest of the week. it could not possibly have been more emotionally charged and believeable.

No problem with the suddeness (in fact, that largely was the impact) - just thunk that a play back to OMWF would have been perfect.

Tara's death wasn't (tho I may be wrong) about contract, but her "channeling" appearance in season 7 was because of that I think.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tigerLily:
i read that article. (the washington post interview) and if you actually read it, very carefully, it seems (to me anyways) that the writer has twisted her quotes to make it seem as if she was "fired'. she never actually is quoted as saying anything of the sort. the quotes about her being "shocked" could have as easily been referring to the direction her character was going, or any number of things. i feel that "interview" article was very misleading.
[/QUOTE)

Well,got to disagree with you there but,obviously,a lot of this is a matter of perception. We both drew different inferences from what was put in front of us and we both think we're right.
Regardless,not everybody thinks Joss did the right thing here and all we're doing is letting him know it. It's really no different than thinking Fox did the wrong thing and petioning to bring Firefly back ( I'm # 90 on the new petition). A lot of people would say that is foolish or wrong to disagree with a TV network's decision. I guess my feeling is that if you disagree with something,you should let people know about it. That's why I fight for Firefly and I fight for Cordelia.
Obviously,not everybody has to agree with me. The info's up here for those who do.
(Sorry about my delay in responding. For some reason I haven't been getting notified when this thread's been updated.).

Best wishes,

Scott

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:14 PM

ZELDA

Joss was quoted multiple times saying that they had an entire episode written for Amber Benson to come back in season 7, and she turned them down. She didn't like the way Tara was going to be portrayed, and opted not to do it. (There was some good stuff on this on the BBC cult website last year.)

He pretty much said that the episode that had been written for her was one that he really, really liked, and they had to completely throw it away and write Conversations With Dead People.

Which is not me trying to get people mad at Amber Benson. She's completely free to make her own choices as far as I'm concerned.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:25 PM

KINGOFKOINS

Cordelia is dead, deal with it.

--------------------------------
It's sickening how comforting the privacy of the mind can be.
"Bible's broken; contradictions, false logistics. Doesn't make sense." - River
http://stripe.filetap.com

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 4:58 PM

PHOENIXSHIP

Kay people... Let's not judge Kayleeforqueen too harshly here - weren't we all sad to say goodbye to Cordy? She was so damn lovable... It's hard not to want her back when you think of all she's been through on both shows.

While I was completely shocked and saddened at the death of such a long running character, I was also moved by her sacrifice, and to bring her back wouldn't do anybody any good. It was the perfect, selfless end to a character who had evolved from bitchy, self-involved snot-nosed brat into a hero. Angel's not the only one who beats the bad guys. Plus, she's just dead, not gone!

Let's just let Joss drive. He's never gotten us lost yet, has he?

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 9:40 PM

BLUEEYEDBROWNCOAT

Joss has been known to say or at least think "All relationships must end badly". I first heard this in relation to Doyle being killed off.

I wasn't ready for what happened at the end of this episode, not until the phone call. I did like it much better than seeing Cordy take off to "find herself in Europe", or something like that.

My only concern is this: If we (fireflyfans) channel a lot of energy into this - demanding Cordy back - then what kind of message are we sending potential networks, etc. about the fans of Firefly? It is already known that we are heart-felt, committed, dedicated fans. But if we start doing things which portray us as being annoying, demanding, and rude, this isn't going to encourage a network to look into picking up the series. They will look at it as something we will watch, but everytime something happens on the show that we don't like, it will spawn another letter writing campaign. And to some it will appear to be more trouble than it's worth.

Just a thought. I'm not saying you shouldn't go ahead and voice your opinion on Cordy's character being killed off, but do keep in mind that the decision has already been made - and we HAVE seen some characters "come back from the dead" or even discover they were never dead in the first place. Especially in the Joss Whedon universe.

I don't ask for much - just Firefly back on the air once a week.... oh, and maybe world peace.

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueEyedBrownCoat:
Joss has been known to say or at least think "All relationships must end badly". I first heard this in relation to Doyle being killed off.

I wasn't ready for what happened at the end of this episode, not until the phone call. I did like it much better than seeing Cordy take off to "find herself in Europe", or something like that.

My only concern is this: If we (fireflyfans) channel a lot of energy into this - demanding Cordy back - then what kind of message are we sending potential networks, etc. about the fans of Firefly? It is already known that we are heart-felt, committed, dedicated fans. But if we start doing things which portray us as being annoying, demanding, and rude, this isn't going to encourage a network to look into picking up the series. They will look at it as something we will watch, but everytime something happens on the show that we don't like, it will spawn another letter writing campaign. And to some it will appear to be more trouble than it's worth.

Just a thought. I'm not saying you shouldn't go ahead and voice your opinion on Cordy's character being killed off, but do keep in mind that the decision has already been made - and we HAVE seen some characters "come back from the dead" or even discover they were never dead in the first place. Especially in the Joss Whedon universe.

I don't ask for much - just Firefly back on the air once a week.... oh, and maybe world peace.

All right, I wasn't going to post here any more. I was going to go back to quiet lurking and doing whatever was necessary to support Firefly but you do raise a point that I should address.
My own personal belief is that it is always better to say and argue for what you believe than it is to keep quiet for fear of being thought pushy (which,come to think of it,is probably one of the reasons I like Cordy...).
I work in market research and one thing I can tell you is that all organisations want feedback. They may complain if it's not the feedback they want to hear but they want feedback. They spend fortunes trying to get feedback from their customers.
I certainly would never advocate being annoying,demanding or rude but there is literally no such thing as too much feedback from the audience. It's why magazines have letter columns. It's why networks have online bulletin boards. They want to know your opinion.
I can't really see how asking for Cordelia back would threaten a continuation of Firefly ( I mean, a primary target would be ME itself which is pretty much pro-Firefly...). I really wouldn't worry about it. When Firefly does come back, there will be people who don't always like everything about it and will make noise about it. That's as it should be. That's how people learn how to improve their product.
One general comment-It's really been bugging me that people seem to think that the petitions are my brain child. They're not. They were created by other people. I 'm merely giving them a little publicity by posting them on sites that I
thought people who might be interested in them visit ( Truthfully, I honestly thought that interested people would check out the links and people who weren't interested wouldn't bother. I really didn't expect such incredible hostility).
I should also probably point out that this isn't just one person's opinion as some of you seem to think. There are over 1600 names on the petitions already.
None of this means that anybody should get involved who doesn't want to. The information's there if you do. If you don't want to,don't.

Best wishes,

Scott

Best wishes,

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueEyedBrownCoat:
Joss has been known to say or at least think "All relationships must end badly". I first heard this in relation to Doyle being killed off.

I wasn't ready for what happened at the end of this episode, not until the phone call. I did like it much better than seeing Cordy take off to "find herself in Europe", or something like that.

My only concern is this: If we (fireflyfans) channel a lot of energy into this - demanding Cordy back - then what kind of message are we sending potential networks, etc. about the fans of Firefly? It is already known that we are heart-felt, committed, dedicated fans. But if we start doing things which portray us as being annoying, demanding, and rude, this isn't going to encourage a network to look into picking up the series. They will look at it as something we will watch, but everytime something happens on the show that we don't like, it will spawn another letter writing campaign. And to some it will appear to be more trouble than it's worth.

Just a thought. I'm not saying you shouldn't go ahead and voice your opinion on Cordy's character being killed off, but do keep in mind that the decision has already been made - and we HAVE seen some characters "come back from the dead" or even discover they were never dead in the first place. Especially in the Joss Whedon universe.

I don't ask for much - just Firefly back on the air once a week.... oh, and maybe world peace.

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueEyedBrownCoat:
Joss has been known to say or at least think "All relationships must end badly". I first heard this in relation to Doyle being killed off.

I wasn't ready for what happened at the end of this episode, not until the phone call. I did like it much better than seeing Cordy take off to "find herself in Europe", or something like that.

My only concern is this: If we (fireflyfans) channel a lot of energy into this - demanding Cordy back - then what kind of message are we sending potential networks, etc. about the fans of Firefly? It is already known that we are heart-felt, committed, dedicated fans. But if we start doing things which portray us as being annoying, demanding, and rude, this isn't going to encourage a network to look into picking up the series. They will look at it as something we will watch, but everytime something happens on the show that we don't like, it will spawn another letter writing campaign. And to some it will appear to be more trouble than it's worth.

Just a thought. I'm not saying you shouldn't go ahead and voice your opinion on Cordy's character being killed off, but do keep in mind that the decision has already been made - and we HAVE seen some characters "come back from the dead" or even discover they were never dead in the first place. Especially in the Joss Whedon universe.

I don't ask for much - just Firefly back on the air once a week.... oh, and maybe world peace.

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:34 PM

Oh yeah,as far as people coming back from the dead on Buffy and Angel, I agree that there's certainly a chance that it could happen. We're just looking for some committment that it will.

Best wishes,

Scott

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:35 PM