Angel or Spike - Who Really Saved The World More? by Angeldove

ANGELUS ARCANUM

Angel or Spike - Who Really Saved The World More?

POSTED BY: ANGELDOVE
UPDATED: Monday, May 17, 2004 05:50
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VIEWED: 3904
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Friday, May 14, 2004 10:22 PM

O.K. Ever since The Girl In Question I have been wondering which of the Soulful Vampires (which actually includes soulless Spike, and chip neutered Spike) really has saved the world more times. I believe it is a tie, at 5. Here are my conclusions, but I want to know what you guys think, are all of these actual Apocalypses? And is the correct vampire assigned to each?

Angel
Prophecy Girl - The Master
The Zeppo - Sisterhood of Jhe
Graduation - The Mayor
Peace Out - Jasmine
Not Fade Away - ? - Only assuming they fight and win an apocalypse - Senior Partners?

Spike
Becoming - Acathla
Doomed - Vahrall Demons (Sacrifice of three)
The Gift - Glorificus
Chosen - Uber-Vamps - Close the Hellmouth
Not Fade Away - ? -

OK, anybody gets on me saying Not Fade Away is a spoiler...not from me it isn't. I don't know what is going to happen, perhaps they all die and the world ends...or Angel and Spike save the world together for the first time...guess we'll know next Wednesday

I'm running the gamete of emotions! How sad that all of these emoticons represent what I will be feeling on Wednesday.

I feel confident that the Buffy Apocalypses are all Apocalypses, because in the episode The Gift Buffy asks Giles how many Apocalypses they've fought and he says 6. As for the others...I ask you

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:55 PM

SUCCATASH

Shouldn't Spike win? He was the Chosen One at the end of Buffy. He was directly responsible for the destruction of the biggest army of demons the Buffy/Angel verse has ever seen.

(YET. Still waiting for final Angel, I avoid spoilers.)

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Saturday, May 15, 2004 3:46 PM

ZORIAH

Does the Ascension count as an apocalypse?

Also what about Angelus's contribution in killing the Beast? (never mind it's part of the Jasmine arc anyway)

Also interesting to see how many 'saves' were done by Spike while soulless

Doesn't that merit more brownie points? heh.

Angel also saved the world in Happy Anniversary by pulling the plug ;)

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Saturday, May 15, 2004 4:27 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Angeldove:
O.K. Ever since The Girl In Question I have been wondering which of the Soulful Vampires really has saved the world more times.
Angel
Prophecy Girl - The Master
[

What did Angel do to save the world in Prophecy girl besides a lot of standing about?
He wouldn't have gone after Buffy if Xander hadn't insisted, and he would have let her die if Xander hadn't stepped in w/the CPR....
and then Buffy killed the Master.

If he hadn't been there at all then the result would have been the same.

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Saturday, May 15, 2004 5:14 PM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Shouldn't Spike win? He was the Chosen One at the end of Buffy. He was directly responsible for the destruction of the biggest army of demons the Buffy/Angel verse has ever seen.

(YET. Still waiting for final Angel, I avoid spoilers.)

Spike definately deserves to win, especially since he died in there too!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

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Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:00 PM

11THHOUR

Quote:
Originally posted by Angeldove:
Doomed - Vahrall Demons (Sacrifice of three)

The thing about this particular Apocalypse is that Spike actually made it worse by trying to help. He tossed one of the Vahrall Demons into the pit thinking he was dispatching it. When actually, the sacrifice of the demon was contributing to the onset of the Apocalypse.

So does this count as no point, or half a point?

11thHour

__________________________________________________________

"This isn't a meeting. This is you being annoying." - Angel to Spike

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Saturday, May 15, 2004 8:33 PM

ANGELDOVE

Quote:
Does the Ascension count as an apocalypse?

I was also wondering the same thing, however according to Giles when he commented they had fought 6 apocalypses even before The Gift episode which would have included the whole Adam story line that I thought was questionable, but both were included in the apocalypse count. Although, Spike was quit to dismiss the snake in The Girl In Question and Angel seemed to agree.

Quote:
Angel also saved the world in Happy Anniversary by pulling the plug

This is totally what I meant about seeing apocalypses I missed! Thanks.

Quote:
Also interesting to see how many 'saves' were done by Spike while soulless Doesn't that merit more brownie points?

I would guess three: Becoming, Doomed, The Gift.
In The Girl In Question Spike takes credit for Acathla even though he left before the portal was closed, and his parting words in the episode Becoming were "he's going to kill her" then shrugs and leaves. With Doomed I guess his part in it is all about intentions. He found out he could hurt demons and thought, why not help out the situation, he didn't know that throwing the demon in the hellmouth would re-open it, and in fact was quite pleased with himself for having done so.

Quote:
What did Angel do to save the world in Prophecy girl besides a lot of standing about?
He wouldn't have gone after Buffy if Xander hadn't insisted, and he would have let her die if Xander hadn't stepped in w/the CPR....
and then Buffy killed the Master.
If he hadn't been there at all then the result would have been the same.

OK, Angel thought that Buffy had quit and didn't know she was going after The Master until Xander told him, yes he hesitated going to help, but that was because he said The Master would kill her. Then when they found her (by way of Angel's keen tracking scent, Angel pulled her out of the water and made Xander give her CPR even though Xander thought it was useless, she was dead. So you see, it wouldn't have really turned out the same. However you are right about Angel mostly just standing around. He and Xander didn't seem to hold back all that many vampires. They definitely would have been of more use in the library fighting off the giant snake like things.

Quote:
Shouldn't Spike win? He was the Chosen One at the end of Buffy. He was directly responsible for the destruction of the biggest army of demons the Buffy/Angel verse has ever seen.

I agree that he should score higher on this one as Angel's apocalypses on the whole seem rather lame. It seems there were too many apocalypses on Buffy, and too few on Angel. But now we have The Anniversary apocalypse save, so technically Angel is in the lead by one.

How horrible Angel must feel by always being one-uped by Spike. Spike accomplished the biggest save in Chosen Spike has killed two slayers to Angel's none. And for awhile at least Angel could say he was the only one to sleep with a slayer, and then Spike came along and not only did it, but did it alot more.

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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Monday, May 17, 2004 5:25 AM

IDEFIX

Quote:
Originally posted by Angeldove:
And for awhile at least Angel could say he was the only one to sleep with a slayer, and then Spike came along and not only did it, but did it alot more.

poor Angel *biggrin*.

and the apocalypse count is fun. but I think the Mayor would have only eaten Sunnyhell, so that's probably not an apocalypse. maybe we overlook something here. even the Master would not have been apocalyptic. he was in the wishverse the master of Sunnydale but he didn't destroy the world (or all people on the world) and that's what an apocalypse is all about, isn't it?.

maybe Giles was oversimplyfying things in 'The Gift'. I really hate to contradict the Watcher (and my personal hero) but I think he might have been wrong there. or else we forgot about some other real apocalypses somewhere. they sometimes did come in othervise small episodes.

and if you look at it this way almost all of Angels scores seem pretty weak. Spike did do the real apocalypses (at least the ones in Buffy) and we might even consider subtracting one of Angels apocalypses because he was on the wrong side at least one time too. in Becoming Angel(us) was the source of the apocalyptic threat.
Spike to my knowledge never wanted to destroy the world. in his words: "Truth is, I like this world. You got dog racing, Manchester United, 'Love Boat', and you got people. Billions of people walking round like Happy Meals with legs. It's all right here." and that was in "Becoming", no chip no soul, just a smart vampire without delusions of grandeur.

I have to think about this some more...

Idefix

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Monday, May 17, 2004 5:31 AM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
Quote:
Originally posted by Angeldove:
Doomed - Vahrall Demons (Sacrifice of three)

The thing about this particular Apocalypse is that Spike actually made it worse by trying to help. He tossed one of the Vahrall Demons into the pit thinking he was dispatching it. When actually, the sacrifice of the demon was contributing to the onset of the Apocalypse.

So does this count as no point, or half a point?

11thHour

__________________________________________________________

"This isn't a meeting. This is you being annoying." - Angel to Spike

everybody makes mistakes...i mean when those creepy steal your voice and cut out your heart demons came into town it took Riley like five tries to figure out what Buffy was trying to get him to do.... i still think spike should get full credit for effort!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

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Monday, May 17, 2004 5:50 AM

IDEFIX

Quote:
Originally posted by howdyrockerbaby1:
everybody makes mistakes...i mean when those creepy steal your voice and cut out your heart demons came into town it took Riley like five tries to figure out what Buffy was trying to get him to do....

I loved Riley looking stupid there. I think he really was (not too bright). on top of being boring as hell.

just no Riley fan, don't even know why. I'm no Buffy/xxx shipper that can't get past her having someone else for a while. I just didn't like him, maybe because he was much too likable, there's always something wrong with those.

Idefix

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