Do's and Don'ts for a good Firefly/Serenity fic? by Hippie

BLUE SUN ROOM

Do's and Don'ts for a good Firefly/Serenity fic?

POSTED BY: HIPPIE
UPDATED: Saturday, September 23, 2006 14:15
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7934
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Monday, September 11, 2006 12:03 AM

Ok, i'm new here (my first post in fact) and I have some interesting ideas for a fanfic i'm about to write. So i hope this is in the right place.

I was wondering what, in your opinion, would be some good do's and don'ts for a good Firefly related fanfic read (specifically post-BDM).

I realise that there is no definite answer ether way, but like i said i'm after your opinion on the matter.

Umm, thanks.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 12:18 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Welcome! I for one am happy to see any and all new Hippies on this board

I'd have a look at the following threads for advice on anything to do with Firefly/Serenity fic

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=12&t=23843

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=12&t=23497

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=12&t=22677

There's a lot of what not to do in each. Looking forward to reading your fic!

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Monday, September 11, 2006 12:26 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

There used to be a "pet peeves" thread about fanfic, but I can't find it. The big one mentioned, though, after character mistakes (covered in the threads the lovely DesktopHippie provided) was spelling and grammar mistakes, so I shall refer you here for that: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=12&t=22762&m=353590#353590

Welcome aboard!

I do not care to know your various theories about God. What is the use of discussing all the subtle doctrines about the soul? Do good and be good. And this will take you to freedom and to whatever truth there is. - Gautama Siddharta

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Monday, September 11, 2006 1:44 AM

SIMONWHO

The best idea is to write a character based on yourself, have him/her respected and admired by the crew instantly for his/her all powerful abilities, then kill off Mal and have your character take command of Serenity.

If you can find room in your story for Kaylee to be taken by Reavers and eaten, that'll work too.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 1:59 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

I used to lurk at a board that posted examples of the very worst fanfic they could find. It was a very inclusive site - Buffy, Charmed, Power Rangers, just about every show had something in there.

Now I can't remember who or where they were! And it was such a funny site.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Monday, September 11, 2006 2:17 AM

MAVOURNEEN

Welcome, Hippie! We loooove new posters!

Simonwho - Bad Dog! Sit. Stay. Play nice!

I believe there are two big mistakes that (most) fanfic readers hate -
1. Spelling errors / Grammatical Errors
2. Character Errors

Spelling and Grammar are self explanatory- but when I say Character errors, I mean the writing of dialogue where the reader says to himself "Mal would NEVER have said that!"
Try to stay in canon. Inara is not a shrinking violet. Mal has his moments, but he's not particularly tender and forgiving.

I think most readers will forgive most everything- the most out there story lines, most slash scenes - just make it believable that the character would say or do something.

**Also, get youself a Beta reader. They are particularly helpful!**

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Monday, September 11, 2006 2:41 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Don't kill off any of the regular characters. ( Oh, wait, somebody didn't tell Joss about that one...)

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Monday, September 11, 2006 2:51 AM

XEYRA

I created a Pet-Peeve thread a while ago that was lost in the archives but I found the link through Google. It's a very big thread, but it does have a lot of general do's and dont's in the 'verse fanfic. Of course, much of these are also very subjective, since it's the personal pet-peeves of each person, but you notice that there's a general consensus (sp?) about bad grammar and poor characterization.

The thread is here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=20936

(If the link doesn't open, try searching in google by "Fireflyfans.net Pet-Peeves" and you should find an entry that will lead you to the thread...)

"People tell you things all the time, without talking. The way they move, the way they aren't talking." - River Tam

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Monday, September 11, 2006 2:55 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Don't kill off any of the regular characters. ( Oh, wait, somebody didn't tell Joss about that one...)

That's because by definition, what Joss writes is not fanfic. They are his characters, after all.

New Wash's-death debate, anyone?

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

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Monday, September 11, 2006 5:39 AM

EDIBLESPREAD

[removed]

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Monday, September 11, 2006 5:51 AM

MAL4PREZ

Hiya Hippie! Always a thrill to have new writers!

Like everyone's saying, spend some time on the spelling and grammer and punctuation. It really helps! As far as characterizations, do all you can to get a beta reader. It's amazing the things a fresh eye will catch - and not just with proofreading, but with the plot and the way the characters act.

There was a thread about beta reader volunteers... looking... A-HA!

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=20967

Good luck - and I can't wait to see what you come up with!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 6:43 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Quote:
Yeah, sice I watched the film first I thought it was crap that he died, after his cool flying of serenity and his interesting take on flying. Now I've watched the first three episodes, and the only reason Joss ain't dead, is 'cause I don't know where he lives yet. Wash was cool. I am soo going to get emotional at the last episode, because I know he'll be dead in... when does Serenity happen after Firefly actually? Straight away?

A couple of months after. There's a comic filling in some of went on between the show and the movie.

The thing to remember is that Joss is not your average writer. An average writer will kill off the characters people don't like and keep the ones people do. Joss wants people to become as emotional about his shows as he is, so he'll kill off the characters everyone loves, and he'll keep the characters we don't like and keep working at us and working at us until they, too, get under our skin. It's a genius thing.

Much as I hated to see Wash go, his death really had me terrified that all the characters were going to bite the dust. I can't even tell you how much suspense I was in during those battle scenes.

Buffy season 6 spoilers!

Select to view spoiler:

Fans of Buffy know he did the same thing there too. It would have been easy to kill of Riley, but where would the emotional impact have been? Instead he killed of the sweetest, most loveable character the show ever produced - Tara - which sent Willow (and most of Tara's incredibly dedicated fanbase) over the edge. Same with Spike. Any other writer would have had him effortlessly become good. Joss didn't let that happen. He made sure we knew that Spike still needed a soul by having him make a truly horrific mistake.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 1:09 PM

GOLDY

I think that you can get away with almost anything (including the occasional spelling and/or grammar error) if you understand the characters. The plot doesn't matter so much, as long as the characters *sound* and *act* like we know them from the 'verse. That isn't to say they can't grow and change, but it has to be growth that makes sense.

Stereotypes to avoid:

A River whose sole purpose revolves around telling everyone's deepest and most personal secrets and/or warning everyone of impending danger. She's not just a plot point.

Helpless!Inara. Especially an Inara whose entire mental state is based around whether or not Mal is finally going to be honest with her.

A Mal and Zoe relationship that is open, honest, communicative, and affectionate.

Simon being so happy with Kaylee, he forgets entirely about River.

Jayne so dumb, he can only talk about sex. Conversly, a Jayne that is perfectly in touch with his fuzzy feelings isn't right either.

A Mal that is intuitive, understanding, and compassionate.

Dialogue:

I'm *very* picky about the dialogue. I'd even argue that it is the most difficult aspect of writing Firefly-fic. It's important to keep in mind that these people ARE NOT hicks. They DO NOT come from Southern United States. The dialogue style of the show contains aspects of steretyped Western-speak, yes, but that does not mean they're stupid. Take, for instance, Mal, who does not always say "ain't" and doesn't drop a lot of his "g's." Spelling a lot of words wrong ("an'" instead of "and," "'o" instead of "of") doesn't make them sound in character, it just makes it hard to read. Mal's dialogue style comes from the arrangement of words than it does from improper pronounciation and spelling.

Just my two cents.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 2:09 PM

HIPPIE

Thanks for the responses (and links) guys, its really opened my eyes as to peoples tastes.

One thing though. I see alot of references to Mary/Marty Sues, i think they have something to do with OCs? Could soemone please explain?

Thanks

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Monday, September 11, 2006 3:45 PM

RMMC

A Mary/Marty Sue is an OC that is too perfect. They are the ultimate answer to everything and always get the hero/ine.

Tara O'Shea has a really good article on what to look out for and how to avoid making one. http://ljconstantine.com/column6.htm

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Oh, yeah! Welcome to the site!!! Let me offer you a drink if you'd care to indulge.

******
RMMC

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Monday, September 11, 2006 4:34 PM

HIPPIE

Thanks RMMC.

Another question if you guys don't mind, how close is Mal and Kaylees relationship? Obviously they are not romantically linked at all, but from time to time they show affection towards one another. Like Kaylee kissing Mals cheek in the pilot ("I love my captain" and Mal pulling Kaylee into a friendly hug in Ariel.

Would it be more of a Father/Daughter relationship or Older brother/Younger sister?

Also, do you think Mal would ever go so far as to kiss Kaylee in a firendly manner like she did to him? Like a peck to the forehead or somesuch if he was in a particularly good mood?

Anyway, i just want to make sure i get how the characters would interact with one another down pat.

-Thanks

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Monday, September 11, 2006 4:40 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hippie:
Thanks RMMC.

Another question if you guys don't mind, how close is Mal and Kaylees relationship? Obviously they are not romantically linked at all, but from time to time they show affection towards one another. Like Kaylee kissing Mals cheek in the pilot ("I love my captain" and Mal pulling Kaylee into a friendly hug in Ariel.

Would it be more of a Father/Daughter relationship or Older brother/Younger sister?

Also, do you think Mal would ever go so far as to kiss Kaylee in a firendly manner like she did to him? Like a peck to the forehead or somesuch if he was in a particularly good mood?

Anyway, i just want to make sure i get how the characters would interact with one another down pat.

-Thanks

He did kiss her head at the end of "Our Mrs. Reynolds," and then Wash said, "Don't you know kissing girls makes you sleepy?" and Mal replied, "I know - but, sometimes, I just can't help myself."

So, it's in there, every now and again, but don't go overboard.

Oh, and I personally feel it's more of a sibling relationship, although sometimes Mal gets all fatherly (I'm thinking of "Shindig" here).

I know you didn't ask me the questions, but I wanted to answer them. Hope that helps.

P.S. I am by no means an expert, and I don't write fanfics. Just thought an on-again-off-again fanfic reader's opinion might be helpful.

---

"What the world needs now is love, sweet love -
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some, but for everyone."

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Monday, September 11, 2006 4:41 PM

GOLDY

A Mary Sue is usually thought of as a "perfect" character, the author's own insertion - who after only being around the crew five minutes, can intuitively sense all the inner relationship dynamics, and become the person to whom everyone can turn to for advice. In Firefly fics, Mary/Gary Stues seem to manifest as a long-lost relative or lover. A sister Mal thought died during the war, for example. The Mary Sue trap can also be very easy to fall into when trying to come up with an original character as a love interest for a crew member.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 4:50 PM

HIPPIE

Aha, i thoguht he did it in one of the eps i just couldn't for the life of me remember. Thanks!

And about the Mal/Kaylee thing i just didn't want it to seem inappropriate if i included something like that in my new fic.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 4:52 PM

GOLDY

Would it be more of a Father/Daughter relationship or Older brother/Younger sister?

You keep asking really good questions that I can't help answering! *g*

I see it as a Father/Daughter thing. During the series, Kaylee has Mal up on a pedestal. ("You're a good man." "I love my Captain.") Maybe a little bit naive, but she does see real good in him, which buoys Mal in a lot of ways.

n response, Mal provides a protective role for Kaylee. Whether that's sticking up for her in the pilot, or feeling bad for hurting her feelings in Shindig. It's not an equal relationship by any means. For example, Kaylee isn't someone Mal really goes to for advice (at least, advice that isn't mechanical). Probably quite purposefully, he wants to hide some of the harsher aspects of his job from her.

The relationship is definitely shifting in the movie. Kaylee's sticking up for herself more (she wants Simon to stay, damnit!!!) and challenging Mal. He's certainly in a darker place come Serenity, and Kaylee's obviously very sensitive to that. Definitely something to keep in mind in post-BDM fanfic.

But then - that's almost normal in a parent/child relationship, anyway. You grow up, realize your parents aren't perfect, but a part of you still keeps them up there on that higher plane anyway.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 5:24 PM

HIPPIE

You keep asking really good questions that I can't help answering! *g*

And you keep giving me good answers, hehe.

Funnily enough i have another question (i'm so full of them today arn't i?). Regarding River and her ability to slaughter a room full of people? What are your guys thoughts on her doing this?

I really wanted to stay away from this as it just seems like a deus ex machina you can fall back on. I mean, who else could slaughter a room full of reavers in melee? But if the crew is in mortal danger how could you possibly not have River intervene..?

Anyone have any ideas, or just general thoughts on that subject?

On a smiliar note, would the Alliance still be after River and Simon in any way? It is kinda left open at the end of the BDM..

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Monday, September 11, 2006 6:26 PM

GOLDY

Regarding River and her ability to slaughter a room full of people? What are your guys thoughts on her doing this?

Good question!

I think it really depends on the context. Firefly (and Firefly fanfic, by extension) is about the character journey. The plot, then, is the thing that helps build character and character growth, which is probably why the plots of several episodes (The Message, HoG) weren't as strong as they could be, as they mostly served as the thing that facillitated characterization.

River and the extent of her powers is something that deserves to be explored in fanfic. Is she a sort of super-human that can do anything? How does that effect her emotionally? How does that effect those around her? Does the crew have a right to keep worrying about their own safety (from River) post-Serenity?

I have a hard time writing River, because I find that she often gets used as a plot point. That she doesn't do much outside of creating action, or being the thing that the action happens around. Probably key to writing her is giving her time to develop as a character. If she is going to, in effect, slaughter a roomful of people, how is that going to affect her mental state? Especially the mental state of a seventeen-year-old girl who has lost the better part of her childhood? What does that DO to a person, especially as someone as sensitive to others as River?

On a smiliar note, would the Alliance still be after River and Simon in any way? It is kinda left open at the end of the BDM..

My personal theory is no, but most people don't agree with that. It's probably more exciting and dramatic if they are still fugitives, but... what's the point, really, now that the secret is out? The Alliance is going to have more important things to worry on (like covering up the Miranda scandel) than going after the people that revealed it.

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Monday, September 11, 2006 6:26 PM

GOLDY

Oops. Double post.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:29 AM

AGENTROUKA

Double post? How convenient for me, as it allows me to randomly tell you how much I adore your thoughts here, in particular on Mal and Kaylee!

They are definitely a father/daughter constellation that's moving toward the growing up, possibly leading to an empty nest feeling for Mal, even.

It's healthy for her to stop idealizing the men in her life. It helps her understand and forgive Simon's faults and it allows her to stand up against Mal when he's wrong. But it also robs Mal of his default trusting soul, the image in her eyes that he can try to live up to, which in turn forces HIM to be a better man for his own sake.

These two characters really give each other a lot, in a completely platonic context. That's what I call excellent tv writing. *g*

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Tuesday, September 12, 2006 6:22 AM

SPACEANJL

I think River is going to regain a deal of clarity post-Miranda, but she can't forget what she is, or rather, what she has been made to be. Her ability to control it, rather than to be controlled by it, is going to be interesting. But she is also still a girl, or rather, a young woman.

As for them being hunted - Blue Sun is not the government. I think it just funds them. The ultimate military-industrial complex.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:11 AM

GOLDY

Double post? How convenient for me, as it allows me to randomly tell you how much I adore your thoughts here, in particular on Mal and Kaylee!

Ahaha! You totally cottoned on to my underlying and manipulative plan.

They are definitely a father/daughter constellation that's moving toward the growing up, possibly leading to an empty nest feeling for Mal, even.

Awwww, someone will have to buy him a puppy. That's what we did for my mom. *g*

But it also robs Mal of his default trusting soul, the image in her eyes that he can try to live up to, which in turn forces HIM to be a better man for his own sake.

Very true! You always say such pretty things.

There's certainly an innocence to the Mal/Kaylee relationship during the series that isn't as apparent in the BDM. Maybe even starting in Objects in Space, when Kaylee was threatened in both a physical and emotional way - and Captain was nowhere to be found to protect her. Unfortunately, we don't have any episodes past OiS that deal with Kaylee recovering from her confrontation with Early. Still, I don't think it's a stretch to speculate that the experience has probably changed her outlook, at least a little bit.

Post-Serenity, not only has Kaylee grown up and started to challenge Mal, but she's also building a relationship with Simon. Mal's not going to be the most important male figure in her life. Optimistically, I like to think that Mal doesn't really NEED Kaylee to tell him he's a good man anymore - he hit a very low point during Serenity, and managed to bounce back from it. Plus, he was rhapsodizing about love by the of the movie. *g*

Also, there's the River/Mal relationship to consider. That while not replacing Kaylee, River DID seem to look at Mal as part father/mentor figure by the end of the movie. As emotionally damaged as River may be, she's still a child in many ways.

But. Still. Puppy!

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Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:33 AM

MRSU

Quote:
Originally posted by Goldy:
On a smiliar note, would the Alliance still be after River and Simon in any way? It is kinda left open at the end of the BDM..

My personal theory is no, but most people don't agree with that. It's probably more exciting and dramatic if they are still fugitives, but... what's the point, really, now that the secret is out?

It seems Joss and Co were undesided on this issue as well, so it is really up to fanfic writers and their preferences.

The original idea was that Blue Sun was doing the research in the Academy, and Blue Sun was much more powerful than Parliament and would be very unlikely to stop looking for their star pupil, Miranda or no.
Actually, that's how it came through in the show, comics & movie: Hands of Blue were not looking for River because of Miranda, they just wanted to get her back to the Academy. But the Operative took over because the research was interfering with the state secrets, and he overrode Hands of Blue agenda with a new one. But if Blue Sun were to play the role Joss intended originally, I'm sure they would override this agenda back, because their research was so important to them.

An interesting twist: in the early 190-page version of Serenity script it is said that MilCom (Military council or whatever) was running the Academy and not the Blue Sun, and Parliament desided to close the entire program after Miranda secret got through to River. It appeared that MilCom was under Parliament and had to obey their Operative (which Blue Sun would be unlikely to do). The Operative didn't just kill Dr.Mateus, he also closed the Academy (not clear what he did whith the rest of the people there, and pupils). I.e. the early version closed Tams arc for real, and in the end the Operative stated, in no uncertain terms, that Tams were totally free to go and were no longer fugitives.

But in the final version of the movie Joss desided to leave this issue open, and not specify the end this way or another. We do not know, in the movie, what happened to the Academy or who was running it. How we answer that would determine the answer to the original question: were Tams free to go or not.

If Academy is there and is run by a body powerful enough, then Tams will be pursuied until it's brought down somehow.

Personally I prefer to think that they are still fugitives because then their arc would continue and more adventure and angst would lie ahead. If they are no longer fugitives then it's basically the end of story and the end of Serenity as we know it.
I can't see Simon staying on Serenity for long if he's free to go and River is doing better: he has a calling, he's a genius doctor (River said so so it must be true) and if he can't pursue his calling he would never be happy and whole. It's a law of nature, of human nature, it won't work any other way. On Serenity he's functioning at maybe 5% of capacity, because the crew is so small. And most of the work he gets is because of dangers brought on by him and his sister, so if they are free that would drop to 1% or so. And I can't see River or Kaylee keeping him there, if they love him they would be looking for a compromise which would allow him to work, so it means Kaylee would leave Serenity too. I can see an arrangement where Simon and Kaylee stay in some half-decent place like Persephone maybe, making loads of cash working in their fields, as top-notch professionals they are, but still doing something with Serenity: I can see Simon doing work as Doctors without borders do now, setting up hospitals, helping in disasters etc. and going to different planets for that, and doing it on Serenity. And Kaylee doing check-ups on Serenity every time it's back in town etc. And River flying on the ship and living there while doing all the genius stuff she wanted to do before: research, art etc. So it would make for a happy ending but not for exciting storytelling.

Keeping Tams fugitives just makes it more interesting, with more story to look forward too.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:46 AM

LEIASKY

Quote:
Originally posted by MRSU:

Keeping Tams fugitives just makes it more interesting, with more story to look forward too.

I agree, their story arc would not be as interesting if that were true. But it might just be something Joss would do to throw that wrench into the Simon/Kaylee relationship and the Simon/River relationship.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:35 PM

MADMAN007

Quote:
Originally posted by Hippie:
You keep asking really good questions that I can't help answering! *g*

And you keep giving me good answers, hehe.

Funnily enough i have another question (i'm so full of them today arn't i?). Regarding River and her ability to slaughter a room full of people? What are your guys thoughts on her doing this?

I really wanted to stay away from this as it just seems like a deus ex machina you can fall back on. I mean, who else could slaughter a room full of reavers in melee? But if the crew is in mortal danger how could you possibly not have River intervene..?

Anyone have any ideas, or just general thoughts on that subject?

On a smiliar note, would the Alliance still be after River and Simon in any way? It is kinda left open at the end of the BDM..

Funny you should ask. I have written River in one of my 2 Firefly fan fic. I approached her not with the extreme wild sayings and violence. In my second fan fic, it is set in the future about ten years but from the viewpoint of an outsider looking in at the crew from his point of view. I didn't want to stress just the violence River is capable of, but the precision of violence. River can perform things with such precision that it looks impossible. That's the angle I took when writing River. Besides, they're arent too many chances River can have to slaughter a group of people anyway.
As far as The Alliance, I think I have created what I believe what may have happened to them. Basically, they're not the main people in power but still hold a grudge against the Tams who knocked them off their pedestal.

Anyway, on to the shameless plug portion: the second Firefly/Serenity fanfic I wrote is called Eyewitness and you'll find it here:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/showprofile.asp?un=Madman007

The first one I wrote is called Till Death Do Us Part and it's set 8 months or so before the pilot Serenity, so no River, Simon, or Book. But, no less thrilling. It's my take on the troubles the crew had with Wash and Zoe's wedding.
Bottom line of fan fic: write a STORY. Don't just write for the sake of writing. Just enjoy it. Hope that helps! Good Luck!

"No.....THIS is what going mad feels like.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:02 PM

MRSU

Quote:
Originally posted by Leiasky:
But it might just be something Joss would do to throw that wrench into the Simon/Kaylee relationship and the Simon/River relationship.

Yes, but it would be a different kind of story then: a soap opera and not an epic drama. Instead of matters of life and death it would be matters of balancing work and family and whose turn it is to throw out the garbage. I'm not saying that it can't be entertaining or that it can't throw a wrench into a relationship: it can in real life, and how! It just would have been a different beast.

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Friday, September 22, 2006 3:49 AM

DANNIISUPERNOVA

Thanks bunches, I really needed this!

I love the Castro, because if somebody grabs my ass, I know they're picking my pocket.

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Friday, September 22, 2006 4:07 AM

RIMGIRL

I've only read a few but...
For heaven's sake, let Mal win once in a while!

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Friday, September 22, 2006 4:17 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I just had to jump in here and disagree with the general concensous that Mal and Kaylee have a more father/daughter relationship than a sibling-like one.
What daughter would tell her father his pants showed off his backside? A younger sister might be more able to get away with something like that without it being creepy.
Also, the love and awe Kaylee has for Mal is very younger-sister; especially for a much older brother. I know my brother and I had a similar relationship.
Another thing a daughter wouldn't be likely to do would be to tell her father "Tell that to Inara" or something similar. But a pissed-off younger sister? Oh yeah!
Anyway, excellent thread, it's nice to get a lot of different takes on things.

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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without. - Gautama Siddharta

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Friday, September 22, 2006 9:49 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I just had to jump in here and disagree with the general concensous that Mal and Kaylee have a more father/daughter relationship than a sibling-like one.
What daughter would tell her father his pants showed off his backside? A younger sister might be more able to get away with something like that without it being creepy.
Also, the love and awe Kaylee has for Mal is very younger-sister; especially for a much older brother. I know my brother and I had a similar relationship.
Another thing a daughter wouldn't be likely to do would be to tell her father "Tell that to Inara" or something similar. But a pissed-off younger sister? Oh yeah!

Actually, I can definitely see a daughter say these things to her father. The pants comment, obviously. It's not a come-on, just an observation, and their relationship is not exactly father-daughter, but carries certain aspects of it. In particular, if the hypothetical brother you mention is much older, it already blurs some lines from "normal" sibling relationships, taking away from the relative equality there toward a more superior-status/little girl worship scenario, which can also be the case with father/daughter relationships.

And Kaylee's comment about Inara is a very good example of her breaking out of that adoring, passive role. She never ever defied Mal in the series. Complained, yes. Openly challenged, no. In the movie, she does. She's growing up, drawing lines. If you imagine Inara as the estranged mother figure, it's very easily something a rebelling teenager would say to her father, too. Hell, an adult woman, as well, if the situation applies.

Errr, which is a lot of arguing to defend an opinion that's down to personal perception anyway. *g*

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Saturday, September 23, 2006 2:15 PM

JONDESU

Quote:
Originally posted by Goldy:
But. Still. Puppy!

Heh, I agree. Have to be a beagle too, preferably black-market.

Also, I'd like to echo the Captain Daddy thing. It always makes me read it again just to make sure they'd really put it in there. Possibly Daddy, or Captain, though either is still not what she usually does (in fact, I usually don't hear her saying people's names in conversation at all), but certainly not Captain Daddy.

I think too many people get Jayne all wrong. They try to have him way too simple or way more complex than he really is. He's really not entirely stupid, but he ain't smart either. Keeping that balance is hard, but essential.

Who knows, maybe someday I'll get a fanfic of my own out, and ya'll can yell at me for my own problems.

jW

"I'll kill a man in a fair right, or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight; if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only if I'm gettin' paid!"

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