An idea and a website to bring back Firefly! by browncoatsriseagain

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRedButton:
This is the same bad idea as the Save Enterprise campaign. And it's run by someone equally shadowy. I don't know this guy from Adam and I certainly wouldn't give him any money. If the big dogs in the Firefly community want to get behind this guy after doing their homework on him, I'll be all for it, but not until.

I wouldn't ask you to give any money until you felt it was real.

What made the idea bad for Save Enterprise? Perhaps it was the implementation?

Andrew

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Monday, January 16, 2006 4:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by impression:
i totally agree....get hakens and gossi to be representatives but also get in touch with universal and fox and anything and anyone else associated with firefly and serenity....send messages out everywhere even outside the browncoat community....go to other countries and other genres of websites....get a message spread

If what I am doing causes others to sit up and take action and that action causes more Firefly episodes or a Serenity movie to be made - then I have done what I set out to do.

I am more than willing to be interviewed and background checked by the leaders of the community. I have already offered help to gossi to get the www.serenitymovie.org website back up and running.

Andrew

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Monday, January 16, 2006 4:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
What made the idea bad for Save Enterprise? Perhaps it was the implementation?

Which, not unlike your own, was suspect. And their campaign, as the LA Times revealed and forced the creator to admit, was run by a convicted felon (demonstrating trustworthyness) who'd previously bankrupted a business (demonstrating ability to handle money) who had also run a toy club where he took people's money and never mailed them what they paid for (demonstrating history of fraud).

At least there, they knew what kind of scum they were dealing with. You, we know nothing about.

~You failed to approach the community ahead of time to pitch the idea.

~You failed to get any support from the MANY Firefly related website out there.

~You're using Paypal for this endeavor, which speaks for itself as just plain stupid.

~Your numbers are fuzzy math at best.

~You have no support from Mutant Enemy or anyone affiliated with the production phases of the show.

~You have no assurances from anyone on the inside at the money end that they'd take your money even if you had it to offer.

~You popped onto the scene for the first time today with a lot of vague answers.

So.... Your implementation is better how again?

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Monday, January 16, 2006 4:24 PM

Well we are over the $800 mark and have over 60 people signed up for the newsletter which we are making and will be done with by tomorrow.

We also have had over 30 people "Send this to a friend" with some great comments.

We have been mentioned and linked to via the very popular blog boingboing.net. We are getting into the general blogpsace right now because of it.

We are now on the site list www.browncoats.com

I have contacted several other sites including the podcasts and will hear from them soon.

We are on our way - much faster than anticpated but keeping up.

Thanks again all for both your contributions and your insightful criticisms.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

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Monday, January 16, 2006 4:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRedButton:
Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
What made the idea bad for Save Enterprise? Perhaps it was the implementation?

Which, not unlike your own, was suspect. And their campaign, as the LA Times revealed and forced the creator to admit, was run by a convicted felon (demonstrating trustworthyness) who'd previously bankrupted a business (demonstrating ability to handle money) who had also run a toy club where he took people's money and never mailed them what they paid for (demonstrating history of fraud).

At least there, they knew what kind of scum they were dealing with. You, we know nothing about.

~You failed to approach the community ahead of time to pitch the idea.

~You failed to get any support from the MANY Firefly related website out there.

~You're using Paypal for this endeavor, which speaks for itself as just plain stupid.

~Your numbers are fuzzy math at best.

~You have no support from Mutant Enemy or anyone affiliated with the production phases of the show.

~You have no assurances from anyone on the inside at the money end that they'd take your money even if you had it to offer.

~You popped onto the scene for the first time today with a lot of vague answers.

So.... Your implementation is better how again?

The idea is out there today for the first time - this is true. I am listening intently to everything that is being said and taking a lot of it into implementation.

If I had brought the idea up without any substance i.e. a website and beginning structure behind it would this dialog be really any different? I doubt it. The time to comment and change is now.

I am willing to put my reputation on the line. If someone that the Firefly community trusts wants to do a background check on me, please contact me.

Paypal is just a beginning as I said. I am paying for all extra expenses out of pocket and am setting up the structures to take on that much more responsibility.

I am new to the Firefly community. Brand newly minted Browncoat - no doubt. I will be around for a long time and am willing to wait to have that trust grow.

Thanks again for all of the attention. I just noticed that Whedonesque has asked about us!

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

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Monday, January 16, 2006 5:18 PM

ANONYMOUS1

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
I just noticed that Whedonesque has asked about us!

http://whedonesque.com/comments/9282

Quote:
We're not going to link to this site until more and firmer details are available. Thanks. SoddingNancyTribe | January 17, 04:39 CET

Whedonesque good place to convince. Joss posts there. Be patient, browncoatsriseagain. It may take a while for that background check.

Or then again maybe the background check will not take that long at all. whedonesque has totally deleted the post mentioning this idea and website.

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Monday, January 16, 2006 6:19 PM

I strongly suggest that all here look very CAREFULLY before contributing any money to this. A whois on the domain name shows it registered to NEW DREAM NETWORK, LLC, which is apparently an internet service provider/registrant. The Better Business Bureau rates New Dream Network LLC an 'F' because they haven't responded to complaints. See http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expositor
y.aspx?CompanyID=13131294

If the answer to this is that New Dream isn't the actual owner of the site then there's still something wrong, because the name of the actual registrant is supposed to be shown in a whois for the integrity of the registry.

The first thing I noticed when visiting the website was that there is no name and no address. As aforementioned, there is no past posting history and no credibility built up. They could have/should have sought to establish some sort of the board of trustees, made up of possibly folks who run the well-established sites like fireflyfans.net. I'm not against any well-intentioned effort to bring back this verse, but this doesn't look right.

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Monday, January 16, 2006 6:19 PM

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Monday, January 16, 2006 6:33 PM

SNAP

While this is a great idea, until Joss stamps something and possibly controls the money. It ain't ever going to happen.

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Monday, January 16, 2006 6:35 PM

YOMUDDA

i am all for bringing back this amazing series but i dont think supporting joss with the money will do too well since it would require a hell of alot of money an we couldnt keep supplying him with money to make each episode we'd end up goin broke ourselves itd be easier an better to just show fox how many people support if there is enough people supporting it an fox will be more then happy to fund the show

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Monday, January 16, 2006 7:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yomudda:
i am all for bringing back this amazing series but i dont think supporting joss with the money will do too well since it would require a hell of alot of money an we couldnt keep supplying him with money to make each episode we'd end up goin broke ourselves itd be easier an better to just show fox how many people support if there is enough people supporting it an fox will be more then happy to fund the show

This is about leverage and the future. In the near future, there will be shows that are funded in part or all by people buying the episodes or a DVD of episodes. This is nearly certain as some shows that wouldn't pass muster on a TV channel for lack of a large audience will do just fine as a download or direct-to-DVD project.

You do keep supplying money for each episode right now indirectly through your purchases which the advertiser hope is affected by the ads you see and is why they pay millions of dollars for TV ads in a year.

You only have to pay a small amount. No one is asking you to pay thousands of dollars. Just a few tens and five. Or whatever you can afford. It is the leverage of thousands of people doing this that makes the magic.

And the magic of that cash backing up Joss Whedon to get us what we want - more stories in the 'verse is what we are aiming for.

If you don't believe in it right now, that's okay we'll take your donation when you do.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

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Monday, January 16, 2006 7:47 PM

SHINY

Andrew, you might want to connect with Jeremy (aka DVDJeremy, aka JaySedai I think) who runs fireflymovie.com/serenitymovie.net -- he floated a direct-to-DVD idea/plan a couple years ago and may have some info and/or contacts that would help you get this off the ground.

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Monday, January 16, 2006 8:01 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Bowie:
I think if Joss set up the account people would litterally pour in to donate

This is my main question -- if Joss really is interested in bringing Firefly/Serenity stories back to the small screen, why wouldn't he, Gareth Davies, Chris Buchanan, etc. put together a similar fund? Joss has on a number of occasions expressed his disappointment in how network TV operates, so why wouldn't he be interested in pushing the envelope?

While I would be the first to contribute (far more than the requested $25) if someone like Joss or Chris gave me some indication that there's any chance it would work, in the absense of such reassurances I agree with others that a better use of the money would be to buy DVDs and give them away as gifts to convert those that are not (yet) fans.

Hmmm...now that I think about it, perhaps if your alternative use of the money was buying DVDs for libraries across the country or something instead of charity it would make more sense...after all, that will bring in more browncoats than a single gift to charity...

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Monday, January 16, 2006 8:19 PM

MRBEN

Quote:
I promise that this money (minus the credit card fees) will go to Firefly production.

How can you promise this? You, at this point, have no guarantee that there is somebody at the other end involved in Firefly production who will actually receive the money.

Once this is guaranteed, then I will happily donate.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

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Monday, January 16, 2006 9:01 PM

GOLDINBOY

I don't know if this has already been posted since I don't have time to read all the posts, but it would be nice to see a poll on the web page regarding how many people would donate (including those who already have) if they had complete confidence the money would go to the right place. this would give us, and the entertainment officials an idea of how many people are interested and how much we could raise if all is done in a trust worthy fashion.

I like the idea, keep up the good work!

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mrben:
Quote:
I promise that this money (minus the credit card fees) will go to Firefly production.

How can you promise this? You, at this point, have no guarantee that there is somebody at the other end involved in Firefly production who will actually receive the money.

Once this is guaranteed, then I will happily donate.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

My apologies, my promise was meant to convey that I would never touch the money myself. There is the chance that the money would go to charity.

Although, another person had the idea that instead of the charity option, buy more DVDs and distribute them. What does everyone think about that?

Andrew

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:

Although, another person had the idea that instead of the charity option, buy more DVDs and distribute them. What does everyone think about that?

I think you're legally obligated to the people that have already contributed to your cause to give that money to the charity of Joss' choosing. You don't have the right to change those people's minds about where their money is going.

Day two and you're already tap-dancing in the legal minefield. Good job.

And don't do what the Save Enterprise morons did. Whenever they discovered a gaping whole in their plan, they simply changed the website to hide it or fix it willy-nilly. We don't trust you, so you KNOW we're watching you. You change the PUNCTUATION on your site and we'll notice.

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:16 AM

SHEUNDERSTANDS

Here's the point.

You MAY have good intentions. But what's to say someone with bad intentions could not do exactly what you're doing and then jet with the booty. You've explicitedly said you can't guarantee the money past the word. But who are you anyway. And yet you've already shown you can raise 1000 bucks in a day just by saying you "promise" on an internet chat board. Even if you intend to do well with this money, you've put people in a bad position.

I hate to label you as a con artist, but people even did this with fake Red Cross sites during the hurricane. If you truly aren't a con artist, then the best thing to do as a true browncoat, in my opinion is to stop taking donations, until you can get a third party to guarantee this money past the word of some unidentified internet persona.

As far as I know, if people want to guarantee money goes towards firefly, then simply buy another copy (or 2) and give it to a friend.

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:22 AM

SHEUNDERSTANDS

That is, your answers to people's concerns are exactly what a con would say. Even if you're not conning us now, you're promoting people to donate without investigating the charity and paving the way for them to be duped later. Even if it results in freezing the current dough, I have a feeling it may be best for a lot of us to report this guy to paypal and have his account frozen so that no one else loses money until this is verified appropriately. I'm surprised the board moderateors haven't taken issue to some random guy asking for money on their board in the name of firefly with nothing but a makeshift website and a promise.

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:29 AM

MICK91

Organization and Browncoats don't really mix. The word is already getting out on the street and if Joss is listening, have faith that it will probably happen on its own (without your donations).

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mick91:
Organization and Browncoats don't really mix. The word is already getting out on the street and if Joss is listening, have faith that it will probably happen on its own (without your donations).

Nothing would make me happier than if Joss responded with a C&D. The Browncoat community simply doesn't need to get into the same disasterous situation that the Save Enterprise crowd created.

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SheUnderstands:
That is, your answers to people's concerns are exactly what a con would say...

Yes. Sadly, any money that has been contributed already is probably gone. This person says, essentially, that you aren't risking much in exchange for the chance of a great reward. That's at the heart of a con. Watch the film "House of Games" for an excellent portrait of a con. Browncoats are generally nice people who want desperately to believe. They are sacrificial to the point of donating to collectively purchase the original browncoat or donate DVDs to a library. Unfortunately, that makes us a good mark. The show we all love is about a handful of crooks, albeit likeable ones. We should be better at spotting another Badger or Patience. Remember what Book said in the BDM: He'll sidle up to you in a friendly way and then hit you where you're weak.

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SheUnderstands:
That is, your answers to people's concerns are exactly what a con would say...

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:32 AM

ZEEK

Not even being able to bring up the website anymore isn't instilling much trust either.

I suggest the course of freezing the account for now. Until someone we already trust gives the green light.

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Not even being able to bring up the website anymore isn't instilling much trust either.

I suggest the course of freezing the account for now. Until someone we already trust gives the green light.

Must be that Andrew Schultz figured that he's conned all the money that he's gonna get out of this crowd.

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:46 AM

NANASHI

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

www.pledgebank.com

This, in my opinion, is a far far better solution
for this issue. You only actually donate money
when a target's been reached. When it'll make
a difference.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:06 AM

Well, looks like he folded under pressure.

"No more donations are being taken at this time!
We are in the process of returning all donations received. We came up against insurmountable odds and legal issues launching our fund-riasing drive. firefly@browncoatsriseagain.com

If the money is buring a hole in your pocket, please buy a DVD. Firely and Serenity sales at this time will further our cause. We will continue the fight to re-light Firefly using other methods. Thank you for you support in our first 36 hours of activity. "

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:46 AM

Looks can be deceiving. I got lots of well thought out responses and flames for this idea.

It brought out a lot of bitterness in people that I simply did not expect. It also brought a lot of generosity and love I didn't fully expect either.

We stopped the campaign, not because of the bitterness, but because of a television producer who got a hold of me and taught me a little more about the inside of the television world.

It's about not being an albatross around Joss' neck. A lot of decisions in Film/TV are made on an emotional level. We were approaching this entirely from a logical level (nerds that we are). It was made clear to me that a decision maker would react badly to fan's money being involved in the production no matter how it was presented.

So, after a night of tossing and turning, I woke up this morning and decided to close down the campaign before it got really big and impossible to stop.

I just completed refunding everyone's money. I closed the account so no more money would come in.

We do have several other ideas to help with DVD sales and marketing those numbers to the decision makers.

I hope to partner with the Browncoat's 'verse in the future to help make this happen. It will be a partnership. No more suprises!

Again, thanks again for every bit of input. I loved doing it and I will be around.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

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Monday, January 23, 2006 2:17 AM

PILOTRITA

Just curious, the website still works...any word on what the latest is?

Let's be bad guys!

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Friday, January 27, 2006 8:56 AM

Our website will go live again with 10 things a Browncoat can do now!

The 10 things will evolve as new initiatives come alive, new shinys arrive to buy, etc.

We are working on other features as well, but this one will be first.

We hope to up and running again by the end of today.

Andrew

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Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:40 PM

CAITE

Hello everyone! Long time no post. I've been working hard as a first year teacher, so I don't get to play on the net as much as before.

Well, anyway, my Mom was going to contribute to this venture, and I told her that I didn't trust it worth a darn. Luckily, his site folded before she could send him money. I'd like to point out that she doesn't HAVE extra money to throw away, but was going to do it out of her love of the 'verse. Browncoats, please don't let your love of the 'verse be used against you! Don't EVER contribute money to someone that you don't know and haven't checked out. I don't know Andrew, and I don't know if he's on the up-and-up, but with all the scams in the world nowadays, there's no such thing as being too careful.

Oh, and Andrew, if you ARE a con artist, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell indeed.

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Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:42 PM

SHADOWFLY

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Saturday, January 28, 2006 10:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Caite:
Hello everyone! Long time no post. I've been working hard as a first year teacher, so I don't get to play on the net as much as before.

Well, anyway, my Mom was going to contribute to this venture, and I told her that I didn't trust it worth a darn. Luckily, his site folded before she could send him money. I'd like to point out that she doesn't HAVE extra money to throw away, but was going to do it out of her love of the 'verse. Browncoats, please don't let your love of the 'verse be used against you! Don't EVER contribute money to someone that you don't know and haven't checked out. I don't know Andrew, and I don't know if he's on the up-and-up, but with all the scams in the world nowadays, there's no such thing as being too careful.

Oh, and Andrew, if you ARE a con artist, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell indeed.

I'm glad that level of hell doesn't have my invite waiting. :) I don't know if you heard, but we gave back every dime of the money that was contributed. Not one complaint has reached me about not getting a refund.

It didn't 'fold' either I'm still here and I'm still contributing what I can. We just updating our website now although there are still typos and it's not finished, it is up.

Andrew

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Monday, January 30, 2006 11:39 AM

RYANW2050

I think there are a bunch of problems.

1. Are we sure Joss even wants to do more Firefly?
2. All of the actors are off doing their own thing now.
3. What reason would FOX ever have to let their copyrights go?

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Monday, January 30, 2006 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RyanW2050:
I think there are a bunch of problems.

1. Are we sure Joss even wants to do more Firefly?
2. All of the actors are off doing their own thing now.
3. What reason would FOX ever have to let their copyrights go?

1. No we are not. He has indicated in lots of interviews that he is, though. However, no Joss - no show.

2. This is true. It might not (and can't) be the same show it was (new plots and characters of some sort have to be introduced. All of the people the crew worked for died too!) That's Joss' ultimate call. Not a reason to at least try.

3. No one is asking Fox to let go of their rights to the show. It is to buy the option on those rights for a limited time (usually a year and the n can be renewed) to produce new Firefly. Fox would retain permanent rights and would probably have right of first refusal. Right now, those rights are sitting idle earning them nothing. Optioning them to someone who is interested makes them money. They could be interested. Again, not knowing until the asking has happened.

Andrew

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Monday, January 30, 2006 12:34 PM

RYANW2050

If another season is possible, why isn't joss doing it?

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Monday, January 30, 2006 5:59 PM

Joss in an interview said,

"...There could be a series, there could be a miniseries, there could be all sorts of things. I'm not ruling anything out. I'll let it simmer for a while and see if anyone calls."

Sounds like he is interested doesn't it?, but maybe he is tired of being the one taking the risks? He has plenty on his plate now, but if someone presented him and Fox with a business plan that could work it would let him say "Yes".

Also, Joss isn't a perfect man with a perfect plan and he would probably abhor being though of as such.

Andrew

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:40 AM

LUCASHARPER

I'm a little late getting here but I gotta respond all the same.

You asked that if we don't donate, to please let you know why.

Ok.

I ain't donatin' a cent.

Why?

I think it's a scam.

Pure and simple as that.

If it ain't then it ain't.

But my opinion is that this is a one big take to suck people in and get their hard earned.

If not, good luck to you.

Luc.

www.guyandpenguin.com

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:06 PM