I don't Care What You Believe...Just Believe. by RiveR6213

*sigh*

Another thread shot to hell.

River

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Monday, March 20, 2006 1:27 PM

SUICIDALDUCKLING

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
*sigh*

Another thread shot to hell.

River

Wow, it sure was...on the plus side, at least there is no hell and i'm reminded why i don't like going to church. Nice image in your signature by the way, very hypnotic.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 1:47 PM

RIGHTEOUS9

Okay dude,

do you really feel the neccessity to associate christians with the persecuted?

That was a long time ago. You can not be persecuted when you are in the majority, and also control all aspects of government.

The "War on Christmas" is a joke perpetrated by the "left wing" media to rally the conservative base. There is no war! If people are getting agitated at Christians in this country, it is because there are attempts all over the place to turn our Secularly born government into something tied to Christianity, and THAT, is the persecution of every other religion that many of our fellow Americans hold dear.

I have no problem with Christianity, and am luckier than River### in that I have known many truly good christians. I want the good of such an important religion to thrive,

But Please quit allowing yourself to be deluded into thinking that just by being a Christian you are somehow a martyr for the faith. It's embarassing.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 2:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

Okay dude,

do you really feel the neccessity to associate christians with the persecuted?

That was a long time ago. You can not be persecuted when you are in the majority, and also control all aspects of government.

The "War on Christmas" is a joke perpetrated by the "left wing" media to rally the conservative base. There is no war! If people are getting agitated at Christians in this country, it is because there are attempts all over the place to turn our Secularly born government into something tied to Christianity, and THAT, is the persecution of every other religion that many of our fellow Americans hold dear.

I have no problem with Christianity, and am luckier than River### in that I have known many truly good christians. I want the good of such an important religion to thrive,

But Please quit allowing yourself to be deluded into thinking that just by being a Christian you are somehow a martyr for the faith. It's embarassing.

Yeah!!! You tell 'em Righteous!

River

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Monday, March 20, 2006 2:28 PM

Forgive me, you misunderstood. I meant RiveR6213 persecutes the Christians around her! In real life, if a person told me they want to have me shot and fed to the lions, I would cross the street to avoid that person!

I would also cross the street to keep my Skechers free of all the blood I cause that person to vomit up.

____________________________
Acquisitions Officer - SereniTREE

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Monday, March 20, 2006 2:54 PM

RIGHTEOUS9

Gottcha.

It's a touchy subject, and nobody should be advocating 'putting them up against the wall',

Maybe it's because I'm not Christian, but I didn't actually detect a malicious tone in that post...I thought it was intentionally over the top, intentionally demented...and not an actual call to arms...

But yeah River...for shame. you...must...sue...for...peace...!

Heh...and I would like to second somebody elses motion that here would be a good place for you to meet some good Christians.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 3:07 PM

Darn! I loved the feeding them to the lions thing!

I do as I choose. I think what I want, and there is no power in the 'verse that can stop me. With that said, I think that my original purpose for this thread is what it is...Finding something to believe in, something to keep me going (no not Christianity so sit down and shut the frak up!) and follow it to see where the road leads.

Being a terrorist would give me a goal and a purpose. I would make a splendid suicide bomber, or going to volunteer as a person who helps terminally ill people might work for me...who the frak knows? but the Christianity journey, with all of its weirdness is not for me. So if you are a mouthy Christian wanting to give "advice" in this thread...take a hike bozo.

River

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Monday, March 20, 2006 5:12 PM

HARDCORE

River, I understand your hostility. I felt the same way as you do before I accepted Christ into my heart.

I'm not going to convince you myself. All I can do is plant a seed and let God work with you. There will come a time in your life when you will call out, and God will be waiting with open arms.

This goes to anyone else who feels as River does. I'm not condemning you. You don't need condemnation, you need the liberating love of Christ in your lives.

Again, I offer my ear(or eyes, dependant upon how you wish to contact me) to help you in any way I can.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 5:51 PM

BELLOBARD

I am a Christian, but what is sad to me is that it sounds like you have only experienced the evangelists.

There are many like I am who don't think you have to convert people. But it is through controversy that one's opinions come to light. So unless you ask the next nice person you meet if they are a Christian, you may never meet a 'tolerant' Christian.

As for me, I believe what I believe. But I accept all faiths. I accept that love is the ultimate. And if that means homosexual love, so be it.

I may not agree with everything that happens in the world. And I may quietly judge some things that piss me off too, but I will never try to "convert" you. It's your choice and your old enough to think for yourself. And Christ said the same.

As for Shepherd, I believe he was the same. Just as falliable as the fundamentalists and atheiests. He is afterall human. No one, no matter what your faith, is perfect.

Shepherd understands that belief in something is the most important thing. And it doesn't have to be religious. Just believe and Accept that others will differ in their beliefs... and that includes in how they share their beliefs. Just accept it and the world will be a brighter place.

Unless you purposefully just want to piss people off which sounds more to the point. So have fun!

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Monday, March 20, 2006 5:54 PM

ZAKNRFAMA

I don't believe in any religion, but this quote really explains half of my personal moral code. I was actually shocked to see somebody else say it, but it's really true. You could believe the world was created by sausages, I don't care, just don't let anybody tell you otherwise. It's not ignorance, it's sticking to your guns.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 6:21 PM

You all sound like nice people, but is the room titled "Christians Chat line?" What the frak are you all doing here? What is this? You are raping my thread. Its been highjacked!!!! Is this a joke? Where are all the rational, reasonable people who have, and live their lives by way of common sense? Where are their ideas? Why must the Ben Hur, I Dream of Genie crowd have to take point in all of this?

You Christian people, listen up!!!! I would follow Satan himself at this point if I could get what I wanted okay? You guys can leave now. The door is over there, and don't let it hit you on the way out.

jeezzzuss!!!

River

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Monday, March 20, 2006 7:01 PM

HARDCORE

We have the right to speak, just as you do.

I'm sorry we don't agree on this.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 7:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardcore:
We have the right to speak, just as you do.

I'm sorry we don't agree on this.

Yes, I suppose you do have the right to speak your garbage you bible-thumping creepoid. Well, go ahead and hijack away this thread Christian boy. This is the last post I'll make in this thread so you and your fellow Christian friends can hold your self-righteous prayer meetings here.
I'll make a new thread elsewhere. You Christians always ruin everything thats good.

River

*The fleet sets course for new horizons*

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Monday, March 20, 2006 7:47 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I have never met a Christian who reflected God's love...not ever.

Whew. I feel sorry for you. I'll admit, the number of good, loving, wise Christians is small compared to the number of fools, bigots, and self-serving egoists who call themselves "Christian" without the slightest understanding of what the Nazarine taught, but to have gone through an entire lifetime without once encountering one is a serious statistical anomaly.

For the record, I'm a Pagan, and I've run across my share of professed "Christians" who stand for everything the Son of Man preached against.

But I've also met people who've "gotten it"; who judge themselves before they judge others, who are more concerned with living in a state of grace than in forcing others to follow a set path.

They're exactly the kind of people a virtuous Pagan can call friend. And there are more of them out there than you might realize.

"All through history the great religious philosophers and prophets have pointed towards a dream, and said "This is the way we should travel." "This is the direction we should face."; and immediately very great fools have looked at where they have pointed and said "Look--It's a finger! A glorious, wonderful, sacred finger! Let us worship this finger!" -- Attributed to Jean-Luc Picard

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Monday, March 20, 2006 9:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Book is the type of man who accepts a prostitute into his heart without feeling the need to convert her or cleanse her of sin. More than that, he confides in her his fears and doubts, and even looks to her for some guidance(1st episode).

I think, when he says that he brings "the message to those who need hearing it," that he really means to those who have nothing to hold onto, who have nothing to believe in. He's not overly concerned with people who have meaning already.

Many a time when people find out I'm a Christian they'll apologize for using profanity or doing something else they think I'll find offensive, I just tell them that as a none Christian, the fact that they cuss is truly the least of their problems.

I suspect Book thinks the same way!

____________________________
Acquisitions Officer - SereniTREE

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Monday, March 20, 2006 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
This is a thread dedicated to people like Rat who is totally in love with Satan and want to be one of his minions.

*Gasp* You edited without an edit tag! That's a big faux pas!

____________________________
Acquisitions Officer - SereniTREE

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:48 AM

MOSS

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I have never met a Christian who reflected God's love...not ever.

Quote:
But I've also met people who've "gotten it"; who judge themselves before they judge others, who are more concerned with living in a state of grace than in forcing others to follow a set path.

They're exactly the kind of people a virtuous Pagan can call friend. And there are more of them out there than you might realize.

You have put into words my thoughts exactly.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:07 AM

DEEPGIRL187

To RiveR6213 and Rat,

If anyone here hijacked this thread, it's you two. Between your constant bickering, it's amazing that anyone could remember the original purose for this thread (or indeed, the reason we're on this site) at all. Extremeism doesn't really solve anything, whether you're a hardcore atheist or a hardcore Christian. We are all here as fans of a great show displaying our appreaciation. You two did a wonderful job of losing that idea.

To get to the original point, I believe that what Book was really referring to was that Mal believe in himself. Only through his own personal conviction could he summon the will to get through their current troubles. The quote can stand on its own, depending on your personal perspective.

This website is for fans of the 'verse, not people spewing their own negative biases. Try to remember that in the future!

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:21 AM

Rat, please! Reject Satan!
Reject him so we can have the original thread title back!!!

Holier than thou Chrisisall

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:12 AM

GELASSENHEIT

Time for the good old dictionary.

belief-(b&-'lEf) a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing.

So it could be belief in a greater good, or belief in what Shepherd or River stood for. These alone could have propelled Mal to go and seek the truth about Miranda and then later get the story out to the public. AND risk everything and everyone to do it. That's belief.

Gelassenheit means Serenity

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:33 AM

ROCKETJOCK

Heard about the dyslexic devil worshiper?

He sold his soul to Santa.

*Ba-doom-poom!*

"Your application's been rejected, but here's what we can do... If you convince ten of your friends to sell their souls I think we can work something out." -- Satan, Sinfest

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:

He sold his soul to Santa.

*Lucifer eyes his next easy mark*

But I'll be with ya, 'cause I laughed Chrisisall

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:14 AM

*Soundtrack to Damien, Omen II is in the background*

*River stands in the center of a pentagram, dressed in all black*

*The Choir of the damned begins to chant*

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:53 AM

MALACHITE

So, I guess I've understood Shepherd's statement a bit differently. First, Shepherd tells Mal that the only thing that will get him through (his current predicament) is belief, and that belief is evidently not God. He goes on to say that it is having belief in something, in and of itself, that is important, not the particular content (though, as mentioned in other posts, it likely has something to do with River, and what she knows). Mal eventually finds his belief that the world needs to know the secret of Miranda. I think that the strength of Mal's belief, and his willingness to die for it (as demonstrated by his response to the Operative) are what give him the internal resolve to keep fighting and eventually triumph over the Operative. Had he not had that strength of belief to match the Operative's own belief that killing River leads to a better world, he would have given up and been killed.
So, for the movie, Shepherd wanted Mal to survive. Shepherd knew that Mal had to develop a strong internal resolve to do what was right (based on a belief) in order to survive against the Operative. For that instance, Mal needed a strong, but not specifically Christian, belief. But overall, given Shepherd's character, I still see that Shepherd wants Mal to reconnect with God some time in the future. Does that make sense?

"Of course, that ain't exactly Plan A" -- Mal to the Operative

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:07 AM

STORYMARK

Just to throw my bucket of fuel on the fire...

Now, in relation to the thread title, I would not say that Satan is my god, as I don't believe in Satan, but I do believe in the Church of Satan - in it's original incarnation at least.

Now, I don't really know what form the Church of Satan is in these days, if it even exists anymore. But I did do a lot of research back in college into Anton LeVey, the founder, and the way the organization worked back when he started it.

I may have the wording a bit off, but the basic tennant was: "Do as you like, but bring no harm to others."

That's something I can get behind. Follow your bliss, do whatever you need to to be happy, just as long as you don't hurt others in the process. I think the world would be a lot better off if people were to live this way.

People could worship and believeas they chose, without forcing it on others, or judging them for not believing the same as they did. What a pleasant thought.

Of course, since that's not the way it is, if I were to go around saying this too much, I have no doubt that eventually some "good Christian" would brain me for it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
To RiveR6213 and Rat,

If anyone here hijacked this thread, it's you two.

If you look at the first few posts, you'll see where it got threadjacked and that it wasn't me! (Unless you count my using the "C" word.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Malachite:
Does that make sense?

Sort of, but I still don't see how Book could know all that!

____________________________
Acquisitions Officer - SereniTREE

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:15 AM

The original title had something to do with "belief", not Satan. The author did not care for the sort of posts that came, and so changed it.

As far as Mal and Book's "Believe in something," idea, I think it has nothing to do with believing River. I'm not sure Book had an understanding that she was remotely sane.

But Book was trying to help fix Mal's biggest problem. Mal was directionless. "Wind blows north, I go north," he himself says. He had no goal, no purpose, aside from survival. And we can see that living like that has had its toll on Mal.

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:19 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
The original title had something to do with "belief", not Satan. The author did not care for the sort of posts that came, and so changed it.

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

Ah, I didn't realize that. I saw someone mention an un-cited edit, but I thought it was in the body text, not the title.

So, I guess my post just addressed the "revised" thread title.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:29 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

I agree with therealme and Malachite. Agrees with my own reasoning, must be right...

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:00 AM

SASSALICIOUS

Quote:
Originally posted by Rat:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
The sermon continued for a while and during the break, the black man was quietly asked to leave!

What Church was this?
Name?
Address?
Email?

____________________________
Acquisitions Officer - SereniTREE

My grandfather stopped going to church (still believes in God, just doesn't do the Church thing) after the minister made a comment about this family's church attire. The family was obviously poor and couldn't afford incredibly nice clothes, but they were still there and going to church every Sunday. Anyway, their clothes were a bit worn and whatever and the minister said something to the effect of "i can see that some people don't understand the concept of 'Sunday Best'" blah blah blah. I can't give you all the details on the Church, but it was sometime in the 70s in Montana or Wyoming because that's where my stepdad grew up. Probably Bozeman or Sundance.

So yes, a number of churches do actively discriminate and belittle their own patrons.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:05 AM

LOL!!
This thread ended up in Troll Country! A perfect ending to a dreadful thread! I feel SO proud of myself.

That should teach those mean christians from messing with the Hero of Lamurra, The woman they call River6213.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:23 AM

Sorry, River, YOU put the thread here when you changed the title to something provocative. Presumably, you were trying to insult people.

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:55 AM

SOULOFSERENITY

The Man They Call Soul...

Okay, here's my $.02.

I've been around this site for quite a while now, and I've seen the extremes that some people can go to with their own beliefs. It’s one thing to defend what you believe, but it’s another thing to condemn someone else for what they believe. There is a rather stupid saying that I use, but it fits: “Hey, whatever floats your boat. As long as you don’t try to float my boat down your stream, we’re cool.” Basically, whatever you chose to believe in is cool with me, as long as you respect what I believe. I try my hardest not to judge people, and I think I do a pretty good job of it. Race is not an issue, religion is not an issue, and financial status is not an issue. If you flaunt what you are, and try to make others either jealous of you or pity you because of your situation, that’s just wrong. You need to live with what you have, and embrace your uniqueness, not try to make everyone exactly like you. That would be a boring world.

As far as this whole tangent about Christianity, I’ve seen my fair share of the pompous types. Can’t stand people like that. Unfortunately, there are many people out there like that, who think that they are better than everyone because they’re Christian. Then there are those who do get it, who get what God was saying about equality and tolerance, about loving one’s brother unconditionally. Those are the true Christians.

I am a Browncoat. I am also a Christian. I will 100% respect you and what you believe. I’m not going to try to convert you. All I ask is that you respect me in return.

And if you don’t, I’ll smite your a$$!! Oh wait, I can only do that with my Dwarf Priest. Sorry, WoW on the brain!!

______________________

Soul, Security Chief of the Sereni-Tree, Captain of Destiny.

Mantichorus: "So is there a reason they call you 'Soul'?"
Soul (after a long pause): "Yeah. Because I have one."

http://havenofsouls.livejournal.com/

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:05 AM

Well, they had it coming. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, and yes I was being pretty mean there towards the end. I just seen some of these pushy, Christian folks turn upside down other threads in their zeal to preach, and I didn't want the thread I started to go in that direction, so I, with equal zeal decided to jump on it. I guess I got carried away. You're a 100% Christian huh? Is this your website, because if it is, then those Christians I was arguing with brought in the big guns...YOU to exact holy justice and sent my thread into Troll Country. That's kinda cheating don't you think?

And it was shaping up to be such a good thread too. Oh well!

River

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Sorry, River, YOU put the thread here when you changed the title to something provocative. Presumably, you were trying to insult people.

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

Yes, I changed the title, but I was going to change it back once the John The Baptist group got bored and left. I thought I was being clever changing the title of the room, so I wouldnt have to war it out with them in the thread. And yes, I was doing my absolute best to insult those Christians creepoids, and yes, because I ended up changing the name of the room into Satan's home, this thread got moved to Troll Country!!! I thought I had won, but now I'm talking to you guys.

I'm not certain if this was worth all of that. I guess I no longer have the patience dealing with bible thumpers. In this i have failed to have tolerance, and for that I am guilty, but at least I'm proud to say that I stuck to my guns.

BTW Who's running this website?

River

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:32 AM

This is Haken's site.

On the whole, I tend to agree with you, River. And with Soul. I agree that some Christian folk got heavy handed here. But you asked about BELIEF, and so they were on topic.

I understand why you changed the thread title in frustration, but in my opinion, that was uncalled for.

I suggest that you just ignore such folk who annoy you so much.

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:46 AM

This is my last post on this thread, as a wise man once said "I don't chase 'em into Troll Country"!

Son, if you could stash me in cryo 'till such time as you need something SPAMed, that'd be great! Thanks!

Concludedly,

Rat

____________________________
Acquisitions Officer - SereniTREE

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:49 AM

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:52 AM

You got it, Dad!

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:10 PM

THEPISTONENGINE

Ok, I've decided to check out troll country and ran into this thread. Probably no one's going to read it, but what the hell.

I'm with several people here. I have problems with Christains. And Jews. And Muslims... um, who else? Atheists, agnostics, myself too.

Actually, I have problems with humanity.
Everyone thinks their particular faith is enlightened and closest to God. That's why its their faith. If someone else's faith is right, that makes theirs wrong. So its perfectly natural that people see their faith as above other peoples. That's my problem with religion. The trick is, they can fight the good fight, convert a few people along the way, without being arrogant and egotistical. I think, largely, the western world is moving towards a tolerant disagreement. I wouldn't advocate total tolerance, if something is wrong with someones faith, the practices, or their conduct, people don't have to accept it. They just need to stuff their ego away.

I think atheists and agnostics are worse. Several atheists I know think themselves incredibly clever because they don't "buy into the mindless following of religion." *yawn*. Agnostics think themselves clever by pulling the Socrates card. I think I'm clever because I realize the world is full of idiots, including myself, and I accept it. I say that, and I think that, but does my subconscious believe? I dunno.

The fact is we all think we're better than one another. We need to realize this fact, and can our egos as much as possible while still subjecting others ideas to reason, debate, and not simply accepting others positions.

It's a real balance. I guess that's why I like Aristotle.

_____________
Carry the Nuttin'

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:54 PM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by Rat:
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
To RiveR6213 and Rat,

If anyone here hijacked this thread, it's you two.

If you look at the first few posts, you'll see where it got threadjacked and that it wasn't me! (Unless you count my using the "C" word.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Malachite:
Does that make sense?

Sort of, but I still don't see how Book could know all that!

____________________________
Acquisitions Officer - SereniTREE

I don't mean hijacking in a literal sense. What I mean is that you and River6213's constant bickering ruined the original idea of this thread. Call me crazy, but some people actually wanted to discuss Book's message to Mal, not lash each other to death with philosopical biases.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:44 PM

I started this thread. You have to read the thread from start to finish to know what happened that ended this thread into Troll Country!!!! I hate Troll Country by the way.

I had selfish reasons for starting this thread, but the Christians decided to move on in to spread god's message, and to turn upside down my thread. I guess I wasnt going to have that, so I attacked. I guess i should have just let them take over the thread and made another one. Shame on me. I'm such a bad person.

There are more faiths on ths planet other than Christianity you know. These christians are a pushy lot, and they make a lot of people hate them not because of god, but becasue of them.

I say kill 'em all

Dead River

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Monday, March 27, 2006 6:48 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
There are more faiths on ths planet other than Christianity you know. These christians are a pushy lot, and they make a lot of people hate them not because of god, but becasue of them.

I say kill 'em all

So, because of the crimes of a few all should die? Just curious. Seems kind of heavy handed and pushy is all.

I don't generally discuss religion or politics for the very reasons that this thread you started went bad & into troll country. I do however hate to see an entire group stereotyped because of some bad experiences you have suffered.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Monday, March 27, 2006 7:01 AM

BrownCoat1, if we are to take RiveR6213 at her word from the To Be or Not to Be thread, she's gone now.

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Monday, March 27, 2006 7:10 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Wait a second. Do you mean "gone" gone?

I just read the "To be.." thread to her last post. Do you mean she may have taken her own life?

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, March 27, 2006 7:18 AM