outlaw star by gene

TROLL COUNTRY

outlaw star

POSTED BY: GENE
UPDATED: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:57
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VIEWED: 14219
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Monday, October 28, 2002 1:52 PM

Is it just me or is anyone else seeing the similarites between firefly and outlaw star? I dont know about you other anime fans but its really making me angry, because the creators of firefly probably got the idea for it from outlaw star and didn't give outlaw star any credit. Maybe its a coincidence, yeah right LOL.

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Monday, October 28, 2002 1:53 PM

YEAHITSME

TROLL!

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Monday, October 28, 2002 4:18 PM

PEDME84

oh, boy. i actually don't know if this has been discussed on this site yet, but i know it had been on the official site, before i defected to here.

this was a really big can of worms over there.

yes, there are elements of outlaw star. the show is also reminiscent of many other japanime shows including cowboy bebop, trigun, etc.

so then there's the question, could you call this a rip off? i say, no.

then there's my theory about hollywood's conspiracy against anime. it's used by american writers all the time. i could go through a list for you, and these would only be the ones that just i have noticed. most people see anime as pokemon and sailor moon, and can't take it seriously. (my message to these people: watch Grave of the Fireflies) so they never notice when oh, say, Disney shamelessly rips it off.

this is definitely my fav anime rip off. the opening to the lion king is taken frame for frame form the opening to a japanime show that is called something like Kimba the White Lion. i do not lie. i don't know where you could get your hands on this, but you can go see for yourself.

and they're holding hostage my myazaki movies! if they would just release nausicaa and laputa, they wouldn't be able to rip them off unnoticed anymore(like with Atlantis). oh, pity.

but joss typically borrows. the one example that i can see best is that second season (and third season) of buffy very very much takes from the movie Blade. but the script itself has to be about the journeys of the characters. These other influences are taken and then sent through these particular characters, and joss does it so delightfully well, in my humble opinion.

that's why i don't call it a rip off. the opening sequence to the lion king, now that's a rip off. esp. since they pat themselves on the back for it so much.

i had actually wanted to know about this, though:
Do otaku watch this show? Can they appreciate it, or do they all write it off as a rip off? Any otaku on this web site, please speak up!

- emily

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Monday, October 28, 2002 4:30 PM

GENE

You have some good points, i'll look into those other anime movies you mentioned. Its a shame how hollywood rips off anime.

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Friday, November 22, 2002 2:29 PM

TRAGICSTORY

Well, I am an Otaku so I figured I should write a response. First off, I have seen Outlaw Star, Trigun and Cowboy Bebop. Does Firefly contain some remarkable simularities? Yes. Girl found frozen in a box = Outlaw Star. Wild West weapons in sci fi = Trigun. So is this a rip off? Not really. Just think of the plot line. First, the doctor needs to get on the ship so that once the sister is found they can not easily dispose of her. So she needs to be quiet and immobile. That means the brother either binds and gags her or the writers cryogenicly freeze her. It's more humane and futuristic. And that is where the simularities end. When River bonds with Firefly and becomes the navigation system then I will cough "rip off" as loud as everyone else. Until then I will see it on par with the overused plotline of going into bars to pick up lawless men. As for the cheap technologies, the worlds the crew visits are colonies to the Alliance. So poor technology is to be expected. If you doubt me go and try to get open heart surgury in Afganistan. They faught the Russians for independce and won and they are pretty back-water technologically. (If you think that is because of their religion look at Chechnia, Yugoslavia, most of AFRICA) the further you are away from power, the poorer you are. This show just shows it like it is. Finally, even though there are simularities, there are simularities between all shows. The fact that Firefly does not copy the unique features of the anime series like the ship's grappling arms or Vash's pacifism proves that it is just a simularity, after all american have no problems ripping off Japanese ideas. See the above posts or just go watch "The Ring".

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Friday, November 22, 2002 3:49 PM

PEDME84

hey, tragicstory, i haven't seen THE RING, but i'd love to know what Japanese movie it borrows from!

- emily

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Friday, November 22, 2002 4:33 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

The Ring is a remake of the Japanese movie Ringu. I liked them both a lot(blasphemy I know, but the SFX in the American remake scared the hell out of me.)

Emily, what did Buffy borrow from Blade specificly? Not denying it does, just think its interesting.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Saturday, November 23, 2002 11:33 AM

PEDME84

thanx! i've never seen ringu, but i'm gonna have to before i ever see the ring.

okay, i haven't seen blade in a while, but i think i can remember everything that was borrowed.

first of all, blade's mentor's name is Whistler.

they say, "blade's blood is the key"

i know there's more second season parallels, but i can't remember.

you remember pearl? compare him to balthazaar in the third season.

there's an ascension

the girl offers to let blade bite her to save his life like in third season.

i just want to note that I choose to use the words "inspired by" or "borrowed from." cause this is usually where someone comes back to tell me exactly how they're different. of course they are also different, they didn't copy blade, they just used it as a tool.

- emily

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Wednesday, December 4, 2002 11:51 PM

HOOK

I have never seen outlaw star but i have seen cowboy bebop. But the similarities with that show are mostly superfisial...coboy bebop is about isolation and the inability of poeple to connect while firefly is about morality in a godless universe...which brings up an interesting discussion with the comparison of buffy and firefly...buffy seems (i have only seen a few episodes) to be about defining freewill in a godfull (there has to be a better word then that :P) universe while firefly is, as previously mentioned, about morality in a godless universe...an interesting discussion but i should post a real post later when i have it all figured out...not in troll country.

Aaaaah troll country.

hook

http://diogenes.gotdns.org

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Friday, December 13, 2002 6:45 PM

RACERX9846

hell yes! girl in box? Living ship? bounty hunter, kid engineer, warrior woman, and too-cool captain? achoo-ripoff! but still the show, both shows, kickass

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Saturday, December 14, 2002 11:38 PM

ILLITERATE

Quote:

When River bonds with Firefly and becomes the navigation system then I will cough "rip off" as loud as everyone else.

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Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:21 AM

TRAGICSTORY

HA, I just finished watching Objects in Space... and when River said "I have become serenity" I had a HUGE coughing fit for some reason.... Luckly, by the end of the show I recovered completly. Thank God.

"Societues are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

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Wednesday, January 8, 2003 12:52 PM

DARKMAGICIAN13

Dude! I totally have seen the resemblence since before the show started! I agree completely with you! I saw the previews for the new series and I was like, "this looks a little like Outlaw Star" and then the commercial said something about a girl in a box and I was like, "Oh my God! Outlaw Star all over again!!" Seriously though, it's kinda sad when most Americans think that a cartoon show is for kids, but then they turn it into a real people show and they like it. You know? Anime deserves more credit then it gets!

Diehard Outlaw Star Fan,
Darkmagician 13

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 5:47 PM

NIGHTHAWK

i dont think joss whedon even watches anime.

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:05 PM

DBLADE

Hmmm. I think some people need to actually watch the show before yelling rip-off. So far they haven't convinced me with any argument beyond the superficial "girl in box". Maybe a detailed comparison of the plotlines would state your case better.

Daryl B.

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Saturday, July 10, 2004 12:54 PM

WHISPERING

"Oh, oh, that show has flying cars, now nobody cant use them anymore..."
Thats pretty much how the first post sounds like.

I've seen Outlaw Star (actually have it on DVD) and dont see whats all the fuzz about. Outlaw Star was NOT the first serie that had "deep frozing", so even there it was copyed from somewhere else. How many anime shows you know that have mechas? Are they all ripoffs?

EDIT: Bah, didnt realise the first posts were so old and there isnt a "delete post" button.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:07 AM

MISSYG

In Cowboy Bebop an assassin in a red spacesuit with white piping sneaks onto the Bebop, sneaking about the ship. Later Spike battles the baddy in zero g on the hull of the ship. He does a fancy move to knock the guy off the hull of the ship. The baddy floats away, pissed.

Sound like something you saw on Firefly?

There's nothing wrong with paying homage to cool anime shows, but it would be nice for them to acknowledge lifting their ideas for costumes, dialogue and entire sets from anime.

Buffy and Angel owe huge debts to "Fright Night" and the Gary Oldman Dracula movie.

I'm not surprised the Whedon claims he has run out of ideas. They weren't exactly his ideas to begin with!

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:01 AM

EMBERS

soooo MissyG, you joined this site just to revive this tired old thread...
why do you think anyone cares?
frankly I think Joss stole more from Stagecoach than from Japanese cartoons...
but everyone steals (or pays homage to) other material.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:02 AM

WHISPERING

Quote:
Originally posted by MissyG:
In Cowboy Bebop an assassin in a red spacesuit with white piping sneaks onto the Bebop, sneaking about the ship. Later Spike battles the baddy in zero g on the hull of the ship. He does a fancy move to knock the guy off the hull of the ship. The baddy floats away, pissed.

To be honest, thats a really long shot, i mean, the color of the clothing? It sounds like your trying real hard to blame Firefly for something, that just isnt there.
Also doesnt Cowboy Bebop rip off Western movies?

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:59 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by MissyG:
In Cowboy Bebop an assassin in a red spacesuit with white piping sneaks onto the Bebop, sneaking about the ship. Later Spike battles the baddy in zero g on the hull of the ship. He does a fancy move to knock the guy off the hull of the ship. The baddy floats away, pissed.

Sound like something you saw on Firefly?

There's nothing wrong with paying homage to cool anime shows, but it would be nice for them to acknowledge lifting their ideas for costumes, dialogue and entire sets from anime.

Buffy and Angel owe huge debts to "Fright Night" and the Gary Oldman Dracula movie.

I'm not surprised the Whedon claims he has run out of ideas. They weren't exactly his ideas to begin with!

Look everyone! A Troll!!!

(dusts off poking stick)

Poke! Poke! Poke!

Beat it troll!

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/

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Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:56 AM

CAPNRAHN

Quickie about the Ringu/Ring so-called rip-off.

The "Ringu" idea was SOLD to a US company with the permission of the original production company. So in essence, how is it a rip-off if it has permission to be remade for a foreign (American) market?

"Ringu" is pretty basic with its SFX. "The Ring" is pretty heavy with the eerie SFX - Call "The Ring" a remake - not a rip-off.

Look to "Ju-on" that was remade into the American "The Grudge" they even had the director from "Ju-on" direct "The Grudge". Point taken?

Business in the international film market is more widgy than one might expect.

Thank you for your attention. I feel MUCH better having said that.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 5:57 PM

MAR

Quote:
Originally posted by pedme84:

yes, there are elements of outlaw star. the show is also reminiscent of many other japanime shows including cowboy bebop, trigun, etc.

I read outlaw stars once ago and I don't think is thaaaat similar... yes, ok, there's some similarities... there's the space... and a ship. And there's people in the ship. And there's a girl weird in the ship and... uh... something else?
Now... Trigun and Cowboy bebop... there's some similarities there too. A rip off? hell no!

Quote:

then there's my theory about hollywood's conspiracy against anime. it's used by american writers all the time. i could go through a list for you, and these would only be the ones that just i have noticed.

Then it wasn't just me?
I mean, they are not even that subtle with common Japanesse horror movie (I loved The Ringu, then saw the american one and laughed my head off)... a remake of a film that was done less than a year ago?
I'm sorry, because I'm not tryong to be mean, but USA producers and director must not have a high idea of their fellow-citizens if they think they need to re-tell a story in an easier and nicer way for them to understand it (see The grudge and the Rign (american one)).

And when they do it with anime...
Hello? Atlantis? Tanned girl? blue stone? Nadia???

Quote:

most people see anime as pokemon and sailor moon, and can't take it seriously. (my message to these people: watch Grave of the Fireflies)

I've not seen it, it0s in the list, but I understand [ and comprehend ] what you mean.
I mean... Hiroshima.

Quote:

so they never notice when oh, say, Disney shamelessly rips it off.
this is definitely my fav anime rip off. the opening to the lion king is taken frame for frame form the opening to a japanime show that is called something like...
Kimba the White Lion. i do not lie. i don't know where you could get your hands on this, but you can go see for yourself.

It's Simba if I recall it right, they don't even changed the name... and I've seen part of the anime series (the put it in Catalonia some long year ago) and it was like.... WTF? They could at least have changed something.

Quote:

and they're holding hostage my myazaki movies! if they would just release nausicaa and laputa, they wouldn't be able to rip them off unnoticed anymore(like with Atlantis). oh, pity.

Miyazaki san ^_^ That's some great stuff... I loved both of those movies, yet my favorite one is Mononoke Hime (I think it was translated by 'The proncess Mononoke').
Another funny point:
In Spain the translated Laputa for Lapuntu, because Laputa in spanish means literally TheBitch. Ans we use it also as a bad mannered surprise expression (like Holy fuck!). So we'd had a movie rated for kids but that was saying thinks like:
"Holy fuck, a castle in the air."
or
"Look, it's TheBitch!!"

Quote:

but joss typically borrows. the one example that i can see best is that second season (and third season) of buffy very very much takes from the movie Blade.

I don't see that similarity, sorry. Maybe a little for er... nope, sorry.

Quote:

These other influences are taken and then sent through these particular characters, and joss does it so delightfully well, in my humble opinion.

Everyshow, movie, film, book or play ave been influenced since the first caveman heard his caveman buddy explain ho he'd hunted a mountain sized two headed killer mamut and decided his mamut would be three headed and with some art interests, just to make it more credible.

Quote:

that's why i don't call it a rip off. the opening sequence to the lion king, now that's a rip off. esp. since they pat themselves on the back for it so much.

Couriously enough, as a friend made me notice, Lion King is nothing but a big mix between Hamlet and Richard the III.

Quote:

i had actually wanted to know about this, though:
Do otaku watch this show? Can they appreciate it, or do they all write it off as a rip off? Any otaku on this web site, please speak up!

If I hadn0t answered this question enough before, yep, there's some Otakus in the place... and I happen to like the series too.
Very very very very much, for what matters.

Take me back to the black, tell 'em I ain't coming back.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 6:08 PM

MAR

Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
Quickie about the Ringu/Ring so-called rip-off.

The "Ringu" idea was SOLD to a US company with the permission of the original production company. So in essence, how is it a rip-off if it has permission to be remade for a foreign (American) market?

I wouldn't call it a wise decision, yet it isn0t a rip off, that's true.

Quote:

"Ringu" is pretty basic with its SFX. "The Ring" is pretty heavy with the eerie SFX - Call "The Ring" a remake - not a rip-off.

The problem with the so-called remake of Ringu is that the movie itself was scary in spite of not having huge SFX, yet I'm sorry but I found the american one rather funny.
[
Woman playing main charachter:
Watch, this is a CLUE.
[Shows the clue to the camera]
I know it is a clue because I found it with a label saying: CLUE
[Shows the label to the camera]
Now, what this CLUE says is that [insert random spoiler stuff], and I'll re-explain all this twice so just you'll get the idea... did I said this was a CLUE?

And I'm going to find another clue somewhere else... although I'm not sure why I'm going there.
Look, a horse!!

Quote:

Look to "Ju-on" that was remade into the American "The Grudge" they even had the director from "Ju-on" direct "The Grudge". Point taken?

They got the director and even the same bloody cast... they made the same scenes... the same scare points... the same dialogs... I'm still to find the point in that.

Quote:

Business in the international film market is more widgy than one might expect.

Thank you for your attention. I feel MUCH better having said that.

^_^ Thank you, I loved the opportunity of discussing this too.

Aps, and please, forgive my english mistakes, not my natural language.

Take me back to the black, tell 'em I ain't coming back.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:30 AM

OUTLAWSTAR2

Quote:
Originally posted by dblade:
Hmmm. I think some people need to actually watch the show before yelling rip-off. So far they haven't convinced me with any argument beyond the superficial "girl in box". Maybe a detailed comparison of the plotlines would state your case better.

Daryl B.

I think that Firefly is an excellent show with many imaginative additions to the already fertile world of science fiction, which is no small feat. However, to say that it is not derivative of Outlaw Star is, in my view, unsupportable.

There is the expansion from Earth into outer planets, where the planets further out are the roughest. There are the major forces that correspond to the pirates (the reavers, whose ships actually grapple), the government, and the ragtag-but-good outlaws. There are certain similarities between the characters (the exotic independent, the excitable fighter, the childish mechanic), and especially the captains. There is the constant seeking of jobs, some illegal, to keep the crew paid and the ship fuled. There is the gradual addition of improbable members to the crew.

There is also a mystery that drives the plot and centers upon a gifted young girl with black hair who is discovered frozen in a box and relentlessly searched for because she is the key to a secret. Even the signature engine firing of Serenity is aesthetically identical to the signature firing of Star's spirit gun (which, in repose, looks just like Mal's).

Absolutely there are important differences. But Outlaw Star, which itself borrows heavily from Star Wars, etc., must be seen as a model for Firefly. I mean no offense, but Firefly is a sort of Outlaw Star II.

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Saturday, December 31, 2005 10:55 PM

DBLADE

I just read the summaries for the Outlaw Star episodes.

Magic, catlike aliens, and a group of Kei Pirates whose leader is a small girl. The mysterious frozen girl is involved in a plot to make use of a magical galactic leyline.

Other than outlaws and space I'm not even sure where the similarities begin.

Once you start exploring the specifics the stories aren't even close.

No Outlaw Star II. Sorry.

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Friday, June 30, 2006 12:47 PM

JINXIE

Ok, I agree that Firefly is not a ripoff of Outlaw Star.(I've seen all of Firefly+Movie and just watched all of outlaw star) However there are many similarites.
1) Obviously the girl in box thing.
2) The way the both get money, by doing strange jobs without being criminals.
3) In one episode of outlaw star They are given a password, "Miranda" for some files.(this Miranda is named after someone not a planet.)
4) The "girl in the box" Melfina can be "turned off" and "on" by certain phrases.
5) Planets can be terraformed.

I don't think Firefly is a ripoff of Outlaw Star but I like to think that the creators of Firefly were maybe inspired by Outlaw Star.

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Friday, June 30, 2006 12:57 PM

JINXIE

Quote:
Originally posted by nighthawk:
i dont think joss whedon even watches anime.

I think he might.
One episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a character mentions Vegeta from dragonball z.
("Maybe I'll be like that vegeta guy from dragon ball z" or at least it was something like that.)

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