PTSD and Mal. Really? by Bytemite

FIREFLY UNIVERSE

PTSD and Mal. Really?

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Monday, January 27, 2020 10:08
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Saturday, April 18, 2009 9:45 PM

A List

Dunno if anybody still thinkin about this, but this is gonna be a limited, general list for now, Bytemite. I won't have any specifics until I can watch some.

Anywho. I was procrastinating and entertaining my friends at the same time, which led to me doing mime impressions of the ENTIRE crew. During these impressions realized some things about how Mal moves his body fit "in general" with PTSD. Though he appears confidently relaxed, it's constrained by a body still constantly hypervigilant. Anyone has any comments yea/nay, please speak em!

1.) When Mal "startles", he has a different style from any other male on the crew. He "freezes"--squeezes all his muscles up. Arches his back, suddenly is stiff as a board, particularly in the torso. The other clearest place to see the (female) version of this is (no surprise) River.

2.) In his torso language, Mal presents this area of his body like a turning wall, as though he had a swivel joint at his waist.

3.) He has MAJOR neck-shoulders tension.

4.) His arms and legs move mostly at the major joints of shoulders and hips, very little knees and elbows, except when he is *conciously relaxed*/exhausted. They are also squeezed in close when not making expansive movements.
His limbs move with his locked-down torso. Decent example of this is the wave from Inara scene in Serenity starting from him dozing.

5.) Anyone noticed how his head is tilted down all the time, jaw tight, shoulders nearly always forward or forcibly down?

6.) His characteristic arms-crossed pose whether upset, pissed or relaxed, is not defiant, or even "open" it's protective/comforting of his front. It's sometimes "comfortable" but he tends to do that unconscious rocking/holding thing. Lot of side-to-side stifff legged shifting. While still looking incredibly "manly and impulsive".
Please nobody (male) get offended. Just my observations. He's a hurt guy--doesn't make him any less awesome.

7.)Most of these are altered only when he's in a really exhausted or very "up" mood (ie when he can "forget"), except the deep muscle tension.

8.)I forget what they're called, but one definite sign of unreleased trauma remains in your deep core muscles in your lower back/hips/loins. They run all up and down your lower torso and are responsible for stabilization and free movement, except when they're locked (sometimes for years and years). Mal has this quite noticably, at least when you're trying to imitate him.

When I can see firefly again I'll try to come up with scenes and more easily arguable things. I'm not saying any of these are indicative, just things I noticed.

--
"Going for a ride."
"I think we lost our fuzzy dice back there."

Another Sky

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Monday, April 20, 2009 7:51 AM

ANOTHERSKY

Yeah, what I meant by the alliance reports is just that--reports. She can do what she wants with 'em. Dunno she would have worked out satire of the existing government yet, I didn't do that till I was ten.

Dinosaurs never lose their allure. NEVER.
Cannibalism however is an acquired taste.

--
"I think we lost our fuzzy dice back there"
"Were there monkeys? Terrifying space monkeys?"
"Going for a ride."

Another Sky

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Monday, April 20, 2009 8:18 AM

BYTEMITE

Hmm? Reports?

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Monday, April 20, 2009 6:59 PM

ANOTHERSKY

Oh, there was another tangent up there...somewhere...about Simon's flashback of the Tam estate. I was clarifying my statement on that.

Congrats for a subject interesting enough over 100 replies!

Another Sky

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Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:39 AM

AGENTROUKA

Anothersky--

Those are excellent observations of Mal's body language! I really enjoyed reading htis list and found myself nodding along.

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Tuesday, April 21, 2009 3:49 AM

BYTEMITE

Like I was saying to AnotherSky, all those observations will probably help both my writting stuff and drawing stuff, just like all the observation and debates about personality versus different aspects and manifestations of PTSD. :)

...River and Zoe would be kind of interesting to break down body-language wise, too.

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Tuesday, April 21, 2009 2:27 PM

ANOTHERSKY

Is that a hint? Cause I can define...interesting.
ha ha.

Another Sky

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Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:45 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by AnotherSky:
A List

Dunno if anybody still thinkin about this, but this is gonna be a limited, general list for now, Bytemite. I won't have any specifics until I can watch some.

Anywho. I was procrastinating and entertaining my friends at the same time, which led to me doing mime impressions of the ENTIRE crew. During these impressions realized some things about how Mal moves his body fit "in general" with PTSD. Though he appears confidently relaxed, it's constrained by a body still constantly hypervigilant. Anyone has any comments yea/nay, please speak em!

1.) When Mal "startles", he has a different style from any other male on the crew. He "freezes"--squeezes all his muscles up. Arches his back, suddenly is stiff as a board, particularly in the torso. The other clearest place to see the (female) version of this is (no surprise) River.

2.) In his torso language, Mal presents this area of his body like a turning wall, as though he had a swivel joint at his waist.

3.) He has MAJOR neck-shoulders tension.

4.) His arms and legs move mostly at the major joints of shoulders and hips, very little knees and elbows, except when he is *conciously relaxed*/exhausted. They are also squeezed in close when not making expansive movements.
His limbs move with his locked-down torso. Decent example of this is the wave from Inara scene in Serenity starting from him dozing.

5.) Anyone noticed how his head is tilted down all the time, jaw tight, shoulders nearly always forward or forcibly down?

6.) His characteristic arms-crossed pose whether upset, pissed or relaxed, is not defiant, or even "open" it's protective/comforting of his front. It's sometimes "comfortable" but he tends to do that unconscious rocking/holding thing. Lot of side-to-side stifff legged shifting. While still looking incredibly "manly and impulsive".
Please nobody (male) get offended. Just my observations. He's a hurt guy--doesn't make him any less awesome.

7.)Most of these are altered only when he's in a really exhausted or very "up" mood (ie when he can "forget"), except the deep muscle tension.

8.)I forget what they're called, but one definite sign of unreleased trauma remains in your deep core muscles in your lower back/hips/loins. They run all up and down your lower torso and are responsible for stabilization and free movement, except when they're locked (sometimes for years and years). Mal has this quite noticably, at least when you're trying to imitate him.

When I can see firefly again I'll try to come up with scenes and more easily arguable things. I'm not saying any of these are indicative, just things I noticed.

--
"Going for a ride."
"I think we lost our fuzzy dice back there."

Another Sky

Really good observations. As I remember the episodes, you're exactly right on Mal's body language.

Another tangent, mainly on acting and characterization. (I have absolutely no training in acting)

This makes me wonder if Nathan did any research on PTSD for Mal or did all of this tension come unconcously and naturally out of the character? (most likely in my untrained opinion-I know Nathan did improv in Canada.)

Or was it the result of talks with Joss?

It's just one of hundreds of questions I'd like to ask Nathan and/or Joss.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:23 PM

ANOTHERSKY

Thanks, NCB.

I have zero training as well. The movements came from my own conception of Mal as portrayed by Nathan--which has not till now been from a PTSD standpoint. Also, the last time I saw an episode is far too long ago, so I moved first and analyzed later.

But the fact remains that he was clearly recognizable. Therefore I think that there is something "written" into the character--anger, unresolved pain, stifled revenge with a happy face, whatever, that the actor would "pick up" on. Course, there are other schools of thought.

I'd love to know how they approach characters. And just now I need to approach my pillow. Zzzzzzz....

Another Sky

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Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:18 AM

BYTEMITE

Not Wash's definition anyway. Death and dying would not be on the menu.

Like I said, the reason I started this thread is because I want to hear all the different takes on the nuances of the characters. Not only does it generate ideas, but it helps with characterization.

So observations on body language? INTERESTING. And useful!

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Wednesday, April 22, 2009 8:35 PM

ANOTHERSKY

How sweet. You got the double reference. Definitions comin' up. But you'll have to wait a few clicks. I have a day job ya know. who are you most wondering about?

another sky

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Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:21 AM

BYTEMITE

Well, seeing how River's signs of PTSD (and a 'lil bit of psychosis, poor girl) are slightly more obvious... I'd like to hear about Zoe.

Aside from the Shepherd (because I'm not a religious person) she's the hardest character on the show for me to wrap my mind around. This thread's been particularly helpful with that, and anything more would be even better. So much of her way of communicating is non-verbal, and even then her emotions aren't always readable.

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Monday, April 27, 2009 6:47 PM

ANOTHERSKY

Coming soon. I've got some feds wanna visit on my ship. Can't be too browncoaty till this blows over. I'm lookin' at coupla days. Send you a wave then.

--another sky

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:58 AM

BYTEMITE

Thanks, looking forward to it. :)

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Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:35 AM

ANOTHERSKY

This thread WILL return, most likely by tonight. :D

Lost my Zoe observations, but now I know where they are.

Going for a ride.

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Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:37 PM

ANOTHERSKY

Huzzah. Notes have been located. Took a lot of gouqui jiu and part of a small moon to get them back, but that's a tale for another time.

*caution here there be spoilers*

Again, the format isn't anything specific, just things that occur to me. Zoe's also pretty hard for me too, more imagery, so you see anything out of place, holler:

1.)The word that comes to mind when describing Zoe is “statuesque”. I think of two things—the walk of fashion models(to some extent, and not the hyperextended weird tripping in vogue now) and horses, or deer.

2.)Her back is ramrod straight, she stiffens/expands her personal space out through the ribs when she’s uptight (angry). Nostrils flaring, as with Mal, is a good sign that she is rather surprised or pissed and holding it in. Followed by the dead-eye expression, which while Mal also uses it occasionally, is largely her province out of the whole crew.

3.)Her body needs to be able to move at a moment’s notice—in her largest movements it’s automatic, not reactionary. Watch the scene in serenity where Mal throws Simon on the galley table after River’s cantina antics. Kaylee jars back, all limbs tightened up like a marionette, shoulders clamped.

...Zoe, on the other holster, has already smoothly moved obliquely backwards into the background. She is ready to get Mal’s back or do whatever else is necessary. This type of motion is largely automatic: it *is* her startle mechanism—to get a little space. This is her reaction to fights, explosions, violence—get moving to where YOU want to go, before someone else does it for you.

There are COUNTLESS examples of this—the Battle of Du Khang, the fire in the engine room, about half of serenity, even including the reaver battle after she’s lost Wash, so I think it’s either natural or so ingrained we’ll never tell…

4.) Any movement that isn't plain walking: the legs seem separated from the body—not antithetical to the upper, as in River’s, but just one well-oiled part of the machine, as if she had shock absorbers to continue with the metaphor. Going up the stairs for instance we see the model gait again. This is how she manages to be so stiff and so fluid simultaneously. It appears that the integrity of the torso length must be maintained at all times.
No scrunching allowed.

Whereas Mal is all screwed up in the upper torso—where all his tension seems to be, Zoe’s is in her joints. Let me qualify. Mal is not constrained in the physical space around him—he can flail outside of his shell, while being messed-up muscles-wise.

5.) Movementally speaking, Zoe’s muscles are uncramped, but she seems confined to an enclosing space, albeit one that is dynamic and shifts with her. This is difficult to explain—not quite “unncecessary movement”—she doesn’t have much of that.

Overall most similar to (surprise!) Shepard.
Shepard has a stiffness overlying his smooth-explode speed, the slow strength, as befits his age. Zoe's is younger, but it's still the smoothest of the entire crew, even River in fight-mode.

6.)All that said, she is still very uptight, with energy aligning her legs and torso. Very conscious that every muscle, her outward person is on display—if not in those exact words. May be a function of her clothing, or her upbringing.

7.) The most important thing you need to understand about Zoe’s gait is boots. They help Mal clunk around, but they are integral to Zoe’s walk—as if her body has calculated the exact bootspace that carries her weight. She’s just as aware of her feet as River, but in a different way.

8.)The other interesting thing about Zoe, which would fit with her career military background, is the fact that unlike Mal (in whom you can sometimes see a lanky teenager), Zoe is always polished, and there’s a hefty dose of natural grace under there.

9.)Opposite of Mal, you always see her neck—in fact her chin is frequently tilted up (in confidence? Defiance? Mask? All three?) Her physicality seems to be one of minimalist moderation, at least when Serenity is in crisis. Which is every time they make landfall and half the time in the black.

Whew. That's enough for a spell. I get enough inclination and courage might put up Book and River.

--
Going for a ride.

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 5:20 PM