Other colonies? by ZeroArmour

FIREFLY UNIVERSE

Other colonies?

POSTED BY: ZEROARMOUR
UPDATED: Friday, August 13, 2010 06:52
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Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:57 PM

Could their be other colonies out there?

What would you have as the basis for such branches of the human tree?

Better/worse than the Alliance?

And what if an outside group of humans made contact? What would be the Alliance's responce be?

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Saturday, February 10, 2007 11:17 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

Sad to say, they would probably make attempts to integrate them into the Alliance by diplomacy before settling with sending a ship like the Dortmunder to scare them into submission

Literature has shown us some of humanity's greatest achievements; history, some of our greatest failures -- Alun Lewis

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Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:26 AM

RABBIT2

It`s possible, I suppose that other colonisation attempts were sent from Earth to other stars other than the `Verse`s home star.
Clearly though, there has been no contact from anybody `outside` for centuries so I suspect nobody in the `Verse knows for sure.
We only have a few hints about the back history so, who knows perhaps Tim or Joss had a rough draft for a script involving starship from elsewhere turning up at some point.
My own take on this though is that, for a good while before, maybe as much as a century or so before the first colony ships left, Earth astronomers were aware that this solar system was a prime target for colonisation.
When things started to fall apart, most of the colony ships headed here, so any `other star` colonies will be in a much more `primitive` state than the `verse and no contact is likely to occur.

--------------------------------------------------

Flight Instructor: Son, know what the first rule of flying is?
Me: Don`t crash?

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Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:46 AM

CITIZEN

Well, the shows back story indicates that they all moved to the same place. But perhaps those left behind managed to move out?

But at the end of the day there's no FTL travel, and all though there is some evidence for FTL communication it appears it's range is somewhat limited (Out of Gas and also Serenity. In Serenity Mal talks to Patience in real time despite still being quite far away, and I think there's also some refrence to being in communication range), so it's almost certain that the only contact would be in the form of radio waves and would take some time to get a round trip communication, and the likelyhood of physical contact would be fairly remote.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:30 AM

ROJBLAKE

I'm not sure I buy that there are no FTL drives, in the pilot episode the Serenity rabbits away from an alliance cruiser that indicates that "gunships" could't catch it in time & yet the distress signal is only 12 klicks away.

This would seem to indicate that the guships probably lack ftl drives but a firefly does...admittadly theese drives would be either almost light or just "at light" as opposed to other sci-fi shows that go so fast the galaxy becomes just another neighborhood.

I personally think that they have just at light speed & therefore instead of a "single" system it would be more of a tight cluster of systems. If not every planet & moons would be around the same sun & the "border worlds" would be exceedingly cold (an awful lot of hot desert border worlds no?)

This would also explain some of the maps & charts from the game & other sources.

As to other colonies..it could be, if the trip took decades or centuries etc. then it stands to reason that some of the "wagon train" would have stopped short just as happened in our western exodus.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:54 AM

GWEK

Logically speaking, mankind shouldn't have put all it's eggs in one basket, so ships might have been sent out in different direction (thus making most of them even FURTHER than distant Earth-That-Was). As has been pointed out, it's also a reasonable assumption that not all the ships made it to the Firefly system(s), so there might be a "trail" of colonized planets from here back to Earth-That-Was.

Also, using the Alien movies as a model (because, say what you want about Alien: Resurrection, it served, it part, as the "rough draft" of Firefly), even if Earth-That-Was is unihabitable, there may well be populated satellites, offworld colonies, etc. nearby. If we can terraform, I imagine that Mars, the moon, and even some of the moons of Jupiter might have offered options closer to home (although could probably only support limited populations due to size and terraforming constraints).

Also, I have this theory that maybe Earth-That-Was is sort of "Earth-That-Still-Is"... and it's the crappy place we've seen in "Fray."

And, of course, in wacky crossover land, there's the idea that there were previously other colonies, but that some of them have gotten destroyed, and that when Galactica finally reaches Earth, they'll find that mankind has moved out, and their next stop is Sihnon!

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:28 AM

SAFEAT2ND

This is perfect! Just what I was looking for!

I agree that the may be other colonies, but to throw a monkey wrench into the discussion, do we believe that the Alliance was formed as a result of the Earth's deteriorating condition or after they arrive at the Firefly verse?

If before the mass exodus, it's not impossible to think that they directed everyone in one direction (government mentality). That's not to say some advanced thinking individuals were already exploring other star systems.

GWEK, great minds think alike, that idea you mentioned concerning BSG galaxy crossover, I'm currenly exploring for a crossover fic. I choose to ingnore MOST of Galactica1980. Some ideas had merit but I also think that the Galactica will find either a vacated Earth or a highly advanced Earth (along the lines of Buck Rogers or Star Trek) I lean more towards the vacated one.

I am intrigued by the idea that the Firefly 'verse may be on the cusp of FLT and how they would react to a FLT starship showing up on their doorstep.

_______________________________________________________________
"Got a headful of lightning
And a heart full of rain
And I know that I said
I'd never do it again
Oh and I love you sweet baby but I always take the long way home."

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:25 AM

GWEK

Interesting idea about the Alliance being around on Earth-That-Was, but canon says otherwise.

From the series:

"After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system and hundreds of new Earths were terraformed and colonized. The central planets formed the Alliance and decided all the planets had to join under their rule. There was some disagreement on that point. After the War, many of the Independents who had fought and lost drifted to the edges of the system, far from Alliance control. Out here, people struggled to get by with the most basic technologies; a ship would bring you work, a gun would help you keep it. A captain's goal was simple: find a crew, find a job, keep flying."

From the movie:

Earth-that-was could no longer sustain our numbers, we were so many. We found a new solar system - dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. Each one terraformed - a process taking decades, to support human life, to be new earths. The Central Planets formed the Alliance. Ruled by an interplanetary parliament, the Alliance was a beacon of civilization. The savage outer planets were not so enlightened and refused Alliance control. The war was devastating, but the Alliance's victory over the Independents insured a safer universe. And now everyone can enjoy the comfort, and enlightenment of true civilization.

Either way you slice it, the Alliance (referred to in "Ariel" as the Union of Allied Planets) appears to come after we've packed up and moved to our new digs.

Not to say that there couldn't have been something MORE oppressive on Earth-That-Was... If we carry back the Civil War analogy, Earth-That-Was is "England" (or Europe), and there might be an "Australia" out there somewhere (as well as other smaller colonial spots).

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:33 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
I'm not sure I buy that there are no FTL drives, in the pilot episode the Serenity rabbits away from an alliance cruiser that indicates that "gunships" could't catch it in time & yet the distress signal is only 12 klicks away.

They could catch Serenity, but not in time for the Cruiser to reach the distress call. It doesn't matter how close the distress call was, just how long it would take to catch Serenity, which could be quite awhile given the relative speeds involved. That and Joss himself said there's no FTL.

Quote:
This would seem to indicate that the guships probably lack ftl drives but a firefly does...admittadly theese drives would be either almost light or just "at light" as opposed to other sci-fi shows that go so fast the galaxy becomes just another neighborhood.

Even at lightspeed close stellar neighbours would be years distant. If you have 'light speed' however FTL is trivial, since traveling at light speed for any object of mass breaks Special Relativity just as much as FTL.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:53 AM

ROJBLAKE

Well the interesting part is that ships in the "verse have artificial gravity...since the laws of relativity are largely based on gravitational effects we don't know what the result would be.

The idea that military gunships (fighters?) couldn't catch a cargo ship (c-130) that was so close that 12 klicks (kilometers) was a big deal?

We launch fighters to intercept craft at several hundred miles, 12 KM is going to be a big deal?

Also, as to the back story...are we really going with the concept that the Alliance is telling the TRUTH?

In fact..."Earth got used up" or "Could no longer sustain our numbers".

The Alliance & the 'Verse could well be the creation of Al Gore & similar minded folk who believe that we here on Earth are doomed & left to find new worlds to make over in their own image...if you think about the way the Alliance works it's not that far-fetched.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:25 AM

KAYNA

I love my captain

Well As to the Alliance, it may not have been formalized so much before they reach the galaxy they colonized but I think there was some sort of loose...agreement between the two major parties involved. Remember all the stuff about the Alliance beeing basically America and China all in one. They were the only two super powers or that got off the planet and to the Firefly galaxy so they became a single entity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:37 PM

CITIZEN

I rather imagine that the ships are further apart than 12 kilometres, 12 thousand kilometres is point blank range at interplanetary velocities. And that's the point, these craft will be travelling at such great velocities it's going to take sometime to make up the distance. Space is a very different kettle of fish to a planetary atmosphere, for instance there's no reason Serenity couldn't travel just as fast as a small gun ship, and many reasons why it could accelerate harder and longer.

I also think the Alliance is not quite as bad as it is portrayed, we only ever see it through the eyes of criminals and people who hate the Alliance to the point that they once fought them in open warfare. As an analogy I wonder how detainees in Guantánamo Bay would view the USA compared to a US citizen. The point is we've never seen what the Alliance is like for people living in it, we've only seen one side of the story which is the story of it's enemies.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 23, 2007 2:21 PM

ROJBLAKE

I find that an interesting point, so doing experimental brain surgery on a minor who is supposedly at an academy of higher learning is...a point of view problem?

Utilizing vid screens to survail the populace in every concievable locale & activity is just a safty precaution?

I don't mean to turn this into a political discussion, but beware the government who cares about you.

Let's not forget the attempt to weed out aggression...gun/crime control through adding drugs to air & water supplies...Ritalin anyone?

Remember too that another term for Science Fiction can also be referred to as Science Future...if man can think of it, he will most likely attempt to implement it.

The plot of the movie Serenity is not new, it's been done in Sci-Fi before (the whole pacification program thing) & I don't see it as an unrealistic attempt at controlling a people.

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Friday, March 23, 2007 2:55 PM

ROCKETJOCK

I've never bought the idea that the proto-alliance was the winner in whatever conflict (military or ideological) lead to the exodus from Earth. The winning side doesn't depart their home, even if it's going to crap.

Of course, that's not how they'd tell it--the Alliance is probably big on revisionist history, and keeping the history books consistent with this week's pravda is probably a major concern.

Chances are there are other colonies out there, but lacking FTL travel or long range FTL comm, it's unlikely we'd get to see any of them.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Friday, March 23, 2007 2:56 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Gorram double post.

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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:44 PM

KRELLEK

Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
I find that an interesting point, so doing experimental brain surgery on a minor who is supposedly at an academy of higher learning is...a point of view problem?

Utilizing vid screens to survail the populace in every concievable locale & activity is just a safty precaution?

I don't mean to turn this into a political discussion, but beware the government who cares about you.

Let's not forget the attempt to weed out aggression...gun/crime control through adding drugs to air & water supplies...Ritalin anyone?

Remember too that another term for Science Fiction can also be referred to as Science Future...if man can think of it, he will most likely attempt to implement it.

The plot of the movie Serenity is not new, it's been done in Sci-Fi before (the whole pacification program thing) & I don't see it as an unrealistic attempt at controlling a people.

Yeah that certainly is an interesting point, to have, as you mentioned about the brain surgery on a minor, supposed to be at a academy of higher learning(I wonder what would happen if Simon had not gotten her out, would she return home to the familly house, perhaps somewhat sane due to hypnozis, but have cold eyes that seems to look into your soul, but strangely silent all the time, and then sometimes at night maybe be found by the mother, father, or Simon, or perhaps the possible servants, sneaking out of the window seemingly to sneak out to a boy, but in fact taking on a mission for the government.

and then the whole Pax idea, also makes a chill go down my spine. and the obvious way some people talks about slavery/indentured servitude so openly, and the obvious indifference of the officer in The TrainJob then told about the missing medecine

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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 3:55 PM

GWEK

Seems to me it would be logical that mankind might've ended up somewhere besides the 'Verse, whether it's hardliners who refused to give up the home solar system, pioneers who didn't make it all the way out (after all, not everyone headed out West made it very far), or other attempts to go in different directions.

I've imagined that one possible ending for FIREFLY (had Joss gotten his seven season arc) might've gone something like this:

In Season Seven, we discover that part of Blue Sun's master plan is to create a sort of "telepathic supercomputer" powered by readers like River. This supercomputer would be designed to make contact with lost colonies (for some nefarious purpose or other), and in the last episode, River (and other readers) WOULD reach out and touch someone, discovering that there IS mankind beyond the 'Verse. The final moment of the show would be Mal taking Serenity out into a whole new black, heading out to see who else is out there, and if maybe that corner of the sky ain't quite so crowded.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 4:00 AM

VILE

Other colonies? What for? Once they got rid of that lot with their salespeople and telephone sanitisers, Earth was a great place to be!

I don't see any problem with having other colonies, but there probably wouldn't be any knowledge of them in the 'Verse what with them being the first-goers and all.

No reason why at some point in the future another ship or fleet (either from Earth or from a later colony) shouldn't arrive in the 'Verse, though. Might make an interesting story arc.

--
Too young to be an Urvile ...

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 5:39 AM

JONGSSTRAW

There's always the possibility of the existence of the 13th Colony, founded by the lost 13th tribe of Kobol.....oh sorry, wrong series!

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 9:08 AM

KRELLEK

Quote:
Originally posted by Vile:
Other colonies? What for? Once they got rid of that lot with their salespeople and telephone sanitisers, Earth was a great place to be!

I don't see any problem with having other colonies, but there probably wouldn't be any knowledge of them in the 'Verse what with them being the first-goers and all.

No reason why at some point in the future another ship or fleet (either from Earth or from a later colony) shouldn't arrive in the 'Verse, though. Might make an interesting story arc.

--
Too young to be an Urvile ...

well who know, maybe back on earth, some kind of UED(United Earth Directorate(StarCraft BroodWar))has after the breathing space that has been created by the greath exodus, begun a more systematic Colonization of the Sol System, and perhaps some other star systems that might not be that far away

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Friday, August 13, 2010 6:52 AM

ZZETTA13

Answers:

1) Yes

2) Crashed on another world on their way to Eden. Yet were able the survive.

3) That would be a matter on written preference. What the writer was trying to convey would determine if they were better/worse/the same.

4) War…..

Z

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