Traveller Fans: Which Version Would Work Best For A Firefly Universe? by ShotgunSteven

FIREFLY UNIVERSE

Traveller Fans: Which Version Would Work Best For A Firefly Universe?

POSTED BY: SHOTGUNSTEVEN
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 21:28
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Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:26 PM

Which version do you think would work best for a full blown Firefly universe?

Traveller
Traveller 2300
MegaTraveller
Traveller: The New Era
Marc Miller's Traveller
GURPS Traveller
Traveller D20

If I missed any or got them out of order, I apologize.

Personally, I would want to go with the original version, those little black books that came out back in the 70s. The reprints of those work too, though. ;) The other versions just seem to be too much about number crunching, power gaming, etc.

I cannot speak as to Traveller D20 though, as I have not tried that yet. I do plan to get it, but considering that the original Traveller game had characters starting out after they had mustered out of the military, gone to an underground school for Psions, etc., and D20 games tend to lean towards starting out fresh and leveling up as you go along, the original game just seems that it would be better suited to such a campaign in my mind.

I also like the fact that the original Traveller lends itself very well to creating your own entire game universe. Again, I am unsure as to how well the D20 version would work for such a project. Opinions?

-ShotgunSteven

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Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:15 PM

MICHIZURE

Right out of the box, 2300 AD (the renamed 2d edition of Traveller: 2300) is your best bet. It's a near Earth, near future setting with a frontier feel, the non-humans are easy to ignore, and the star drive causes you to actually traverse the space from here to there.

I normally don't recommend it because it's been out of print for many years. Now, however, you can get legitimate .pdf's online -- if you don't mind the DRM foolishness.

Note that the "Traveller" in the 1st edition's name was misleading (which is why it was changed). 2300 AD is actually a continuation of GDW's Twilight: 2000 post-WWIII rpg, and doesn't have any direct connection with Traveller per se.

I don't care for MegaTraveller (too much of the wrong kind of complicated) and I can't even bring myself to buy t20 -- Traveller has always been the anti-D&D for me.

Traveller: the New Era and (to a lesser extent) GURPS Traveller require you to separate out the default setting from the rules before you can create a generic space campaign. I have run successful Firefly-style near stars campaigns under both systems, but some work is required.

Classic (Little Black Book) Traveller and Marc Miller's Traveller are sufficiently generic, but both have organization problems: the former because it is a second-generation legacy rpg system, the latter due to the editorial failures of Imperium Games. Classic Traveller has the advantage that it's back in print, as the Big Floppy Books.

My recommendation is pick the game system that you're most comfortable with, plunder the others for interesting and useful bits (GURPS Traveller sourcebooks are very detailed and realistic, and mostly still in print), and don't sweat the little inconsistencies.

In particular, if you're considering GURPS Traveller, use GURPS Lite rather than the full Basic Set plus Compendia -- the core mechanic is very simple, it's the plethora of options that scares people away. For Classic Traveller, search out one of the unified task systems that have been created for it (BITS has a version in print, I believe), to avoid the mass of idiosyncratic rolls and special cases.

--------
Kotoba yori tashika na koto michizure ni shite.

"Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space." -- Michael Hensley

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Friday, August 13, 2004 9:01 AM

CHUCKYBONES

Traveller (classic little black book) was the 2nd RPG I ever bought (after the D&D box set - tells you how old I am!). My friends and I loved it. It was open-ended, with just enough mechanics to keep things clean. And you're right, the military training and psi rules cover a lot of what we see. Added bonus: whether you set it in one system or many, the rules cover you. Maneuvering drive or Jump, it's all good.

The only problem I see is that ship design and ship "economics" will be hard to apply to what we saw in Firefly. Most of your ships in Traveller were flying gasoline cans - you needed a LOT of fuel. Expenses for starships were high, too. Non-starships would get around that (votes for one system!).

Anyway, if you couldn't figure it out already, I vote for lbb Traveller. With the reprints I've seen (big, black books that gather several volumes together), it should be easier to find.

ChuckyBones
"...Is there blubber?"

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Friday, August 13, 2004 9:52 AM

FORRESTWOLF

Me, I'd vote for Neverwinter Nights using Traveller...

I guess that puts me in the T20 camp, but I must admit that the T20 system is NOT the best of Traveller. I never had any objections to Megatraveller myself, but the classic Traveller had more character somehow.

And then there's 2300, which I never played, but sounds like it would fit Firefly quite well.

Ok, so I'm waffling. I'll go back to playing Firefly using Traveller T20 on NWN now :)

- Forrestwolf

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Friday, August 13, 2004 10:07 AM

SERGEANTX

As long as we're talking opinions here, I've got to recommend against the new versions that rely on character power-ups/levelling/skill-increases as an integral part of play. Its just not what Firefly is about. Most RPG's today are all about building a superhero of one sort or another. That's not the crew of Serenity.

For those reasons, I recommend the very first one. It's simple, clean and focuses on the kind of activities featured in Firefly. Plus it doesn't have experience points or any kind of built in improvement ladder.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, August 13, 2004 10:37 AM

FORRESTWOLF

That's a really good point about experience and the first version. It always struck me strangely, being a purely D&D gamer at the time (except for reading traveller because I like reading rulesets). But now, knowing a lot more about good roleplaying, as well as Firefly's style, I have to agree. No experience almost seems a cleaner way to go.

- FW

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:28 PM

MICHIZURE

Just a thought, here: there's nothing to say that one must encourage unrealistic character advancement by handing out experience points like candy. There is, however, much goodness in discussing such issues with one's players beforehand, and reaching an agreement on what sort of game everyone wants to play.

I can see reasons why one might want to allow characters to develop new abilities and skills, or learn to apply their existing abilities in ways that are distinct within the game system. Just looking at the BDH in context: Simon's turn as a "criminal mastermind" is a classic example. Mal was a soldier from a ranching family, not a starship captain. Kaylee had never been off her homeworld before she joined the crew -- how much did she know about getting along in the wider 'Verse? To all appearances, Book had not been a Shepherd his entire life. Finally, if the show had continued, wouldn't we have wanted to see River coming to grips with her demons and becoming a contributing member of the crew?

In terms of most game systems, all these changes represent improvements to the characters which in turn imply a character development system. Contrary to what some have said, classic Traveller did have character development -- it was just glacially slow, and not generally tied to events in play. Note, however, that there was no way to acquire psionic abilities during character generation, and that they improved with use over time.

For a very coarse-grained system (which Traveller was: Medic-3 => medical doctor) without game mechanics for personality traits, this is fine. For a more detailed system, some development is probably reasonable. The trick is to link improvements to actions on the character's part or specific events in the game, rather than applying the D&D/console RPG model (where killing things results in random increases to abilities unrelated to killing). This can be done via house rule or contract among the group, if the game system itself doesn't provide a mechanism.

--------
Kotoba yori tashika na koto michizure ni shite.

"Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space." -- Michael Hensley

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 6:00 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Michizure:
... Contrary to what some have said, classic Traveller did have character development...

Who said that it didn't?

The question is character development vs. character improvement. A gm can allow for characters to change in any number of ways. The question is whether you want to play a game that features an improvement ladder/merit-badge kind of upward spiral or not.

As pioneering RPG's, D&D and Traveller established fundamentally different ways to play. Dungeons and Dragons set up a level system that drove play by relying on a player's natural desire to fantasize about being a powerful hero. Traveller lacked any sort of default powerups, focusing on playing realistic characters whose basic capabilities didn't change radically through ordinary play.

To me, its very much like the difference between Firefly and most other pop sci-fi. Star Trek and Star Wars feature heroic characters with amazing abilities that allowed them to take on the most formidable foes in the universe. The crew of Serenity fights for survival, finding themselves in situations where an old lady on horseback is a serious threat.

A game with a built in improvement ladder, like D20, points players toward create "superheroes". This is appropriate for Star Wars style play, tracking the hero's journey from young farm boy to Master Jedi Knight. It's less so for Firefly, where the drama is more mundane (relatively speaking) and the characters rely more on their tenacity than their abilities.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 8:29 AM

FORRESTWOLF

You're quite right - it did have a system for character advancement, but it WAS glacial in nature. Look, there's a spectrum we're talking about here - I run D&D games where level advancement takes a lot of time - and I've played in some where we played for a year or two and went up 2-3 levels. At the same time, 3rd edition D&D is designed (according to the DMG experience rules) to level people up at a pre-designed rate that is quite rapid IMHO - 3 sessions per level. This can result in level 20 over a one yearish campaign. Ouch!

So I'd say yes, Traveller classic had a low-level feel to it that I liked. I'd also say that any Traveller has a nice feature - the pregenerated, already-experienced character. But these things CAN be accomplished in other systems - just only when the DM wants to.

- FW

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Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:26 AM

TENSEN01

I'm using MegaTraveller for my game... I've found the character creation to be the best for firefly. The Career before gameplay aspect is ideal for the setting.

and the customizability of the career systems is good too. I mean, we've worked up an entirely new career-path for if you were an indepedan in the war. We've created both Companion and Shepard careers... and the characters we've mde so far are absolutely perfect for the Firefly unuiverse.

Ive actually thinking about starting a site with what we've done so far.

Anyways, there's m two cents.

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Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:18 AM

JANESAYS

Yes, I'd like to see what you've done with regard to traveller careers as you speak about.

I don't get to the boards often so if you can drop a copy in the email, I'd be much obliged.

JayneSays
jldavenport@lucent.com

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Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:54 AM

TENSEN01

Oh one more thing...

I hafta point out that, from what I've seen CT and MegaTraveller are the same system... CT is just stripped of all the Imperium Setting.

I may be wrong but that's how it looks...

so CT might be a better choice... I just only had access to the MT books

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Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:26 PM

ELIANDI

Quote:
A game with a built in improvement ladder, like D20, points players toward create "superheroes". This is appropriate for Star Wars style play, tracking the hero's journey from young farm boy to Master Jedi Knight. It's less so for Firefly, where the drama is more mundane (relatively speaking) and the characters rely more on their tenacity than their abilities.

That is assuming that FF was not going to move into bigger drama as the series (and now movies) develop. I disagree. I think FF was going to explore, for example, not just River's past, but also the implications of her escape on the FF universe. Much bigger stories than we ever saw. While drama and character will always be highly important, I think the BDH were going to become hero-like in a twisted Weldon way. So Traveller t20, with a relatively slow experience progression, fits that sort of storytelling.

But that aside, FF is about characters and interactions and backstories. Any RPG system can work given the DM and players dedication, and no current system would work without modification to fit the FF verse.

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Monday, September 6, 2004 1:15 AM

MICHIZURE

For those of you who might be interested in the forthcoming GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars core book -- probably the best bet for an off-the-shelf Firefly rpg out there, until/unless there is a licensed version -- the following encouraging comments were posted today on SJ Games' website:

"September 6, 2004: Three Reasons To Be Happy
"So three notably good things have happened in the last week or so . . .
"(2) I had the great pleasure of reading the first draft for the Fourth Edition book GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars by Jon Zeigler (with Paul Drye and Loren Wiseman). And it was simply excellent. Best first draft I've seen in a long time, better than some FINAL drafts, and a huge morale boost for Stevie..."
-- Steve Jackson

With SJ's approval, playtesting should follow pretty quickly and the book looks to be on schedule for an early 2005 release.

--------
Kotoba yori tashika na koto michizure ni shite.

"Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space." -- Michael Hensley.

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Monday, September 6, 2004 4:38 AM

GAVIDA

Just wondering, why it has to be Traveller at all. I played it way back when... uhm.... long time ago.
Played 2300 AD as well for a bit.... almost as long ago.

But I realized that "Boot Hill" (a Western RPG) would be a nice thing for a Firefly RPG and was wondering why no one so far mentioned it.
Only thing that would have to be integrated would be space travel and space ships.
The rules could be taken from Traveller or 2300 AD I guess and with a little fiddling integrated.

Guess I will have to start working on some house rules and RPG-Crossover soon

Keep flying,
Gavida

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Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:28 PM

BROWNCOATTROOPER

I would humbly suggest Marc Miller's traveller.....which covers all the old good ground of the Wee Black Book (WBB) era without the atrocious combat system of 2300 (ground combat not space combat)

BCT

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