REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

people dying of the heat - but hey, rappy's backyard is just fine!

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Monday, July 27, 2015 20:44
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Friday, May 29, 2015 7:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




About 1,100 People Dead as Summer Temperatures Soar in India


More than 852 people have died from the stifling heat in Andhra Pradesh since May 13, a government statement said. In neighboring Telengana 266 have died from heat-related causes, Bhambal Ram Meena, a top official in the disaster management department, said. Over the last two days temperatures in both states have reduced marginally but continue to hover near 45 degrees Celsius (113 degrees Fahrenheit).

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Friday, May 29, 2015 7:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And a shout-out to people with a clue -


http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2015/05/pope-francis-once-chem
ist-issue-document-laying-out-moral-justification-fight-global-warming?et_cid=4593175&et_rid=366206770&location=top

Pope Francis, Once a Chemist, to Issue Document Laying out Moral Justification to Fight Global Warming



SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, May 29, 2015 9:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2015/05/antarctic-ice-shelves-
melting-faster-raising-sea-levels?et_cid=4585908&et_rid=366206770&type=headline

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, May 29, 2015 9:56 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Yep. Wish folks would reduce their CO2 emissions.

I do note that while the U.S. has reduced their annual CO2 emissions by 85 million tonnes between 2010 and 2012 (The latest year CDIAC has figures for), India increased theirs by 63 million tonnes, and China is up 365 million tonnes. Glad we're on the right side of the numbers.


http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/emis/meth_reg.html


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, May 30, 2015 4:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Yep. Wish folks would reduce their CO2 emissions.

I do note that while the U.S. has reduced their annual CO2 emissions by 85 million tonnes between 2010 and 2012 (The latest year CDIAC has figures for), India increased theirs by 63 million tonnes, and China is up 365 million tonnes. Glad we're on the right side of the numbers.


http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/emis/meth_reg.html

After algore invented Global Warming, good thing America was able to use legislation to move all those jobs and companies to China and India.

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Wednesday, July 15, 2015 7:06 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Yep. Wish folks would reduce their CO2 emissions.

I do note that while the U.S. has reduced their annual CO2 emissions by 85 million tonnes between 2010 and 2012 (The latest year CDIAC has figures for), India increased theirs by 63 million tonnes, and China is up 365 million tonnes. Glad we're on the right side of the numbers.


http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/emis/meth_reg.html

I keep hearing people like Don Easterbrook disputing the dogma of CO2 emissions trumping over science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Easterbrook

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/08/rebuttal-to-the-attack-on-dr-don
-easterbrook/

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/14/don-easterbrooks-response-to-a-s
mear-by-wwu-geology-faculty/
Yep, GW fiction alarmist states "I don't want the media to present both sides of an issue"

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Thursday, July 16, 2015 11:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-27/like-that-heat-wave-
75-of-them-attributable-to-climate-change

75% of Heat Waves Are Attributable to Climate Change




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Blame global warming for about 75 percent of the world’s unusually hot days and 18 percent of its extreme snow or rain, according to a new paper in the journal Nature Climate Change.

Heat waves and heavy storms are occurring at least four times more often than they did before carbon pollution started driving up thermometers. Global average temperatures are now about 0.85 degrees Celsius (1.4 Fahrenheit) higher than before industrialization.

Additional heat and precipitation are expensive. Severe weather costs the U.S. economy as much as $33 billion a year, according to a U.S. Energy Department report released April 21.

And those figures will increase as the planet continues to warm, as climate change may not be smooth or gradual, according to the new paper. At 2 degrees Celsius -- United Nations climate negotiators’ avowed upper limit -- extremely hot days may be twice as likely as at 1.5 degrees Celsius of warming. After 2 degrees Celsius, the odds of high-heat days may be five times greater than today.

“What used to be a one-in-a-thousand day, a one-in-three-year event, actually occurs four times in three years,” Erich Fischer, a researcher at the Institute for Atmospheric & Climate Science in Zurich and one of the study’s authors, said in a telephone interview. “Weather extremes have always been occurring, before any human influence, but that doesn’t mean that there can’t be human influence on the extremes.”

read more at the link


SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, July 16, 2015 11:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Shit happens.....

I'm sure two years ago when I sweltered in two months of 90+ degree temps and 15 days straight of 100+ temps, you suffered by paying a little more on your power bill and cool temps....

Walk a mile in another man's shoes....

You've never done it, at least not with weather conditions....

For the second year in a row, we're dealing with very modest temps, especially compared to the previous two years....

I know about heat. Ask me about fire.

It's just like Ellie Goulding's song...

Except NONE of the good times....

And all of the fiery shit nobody loves...



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, July 17, 2015 12:19 AM

WISHIMAY


One, just wondering if Jack has seen the specs for making your own a/c?


Two. If we're going to have another one of those two year freezes like they keep saying we will soon, what's it matter? Ps. In this area in 1816 we actually had SNOW in JUNE. People lived off of canned fish, because all the corn wouldn't grow, or died. Next year is the 200 yr anniversary of that, btw.


Three. There are people dying in India of the heat just about every year. Just like Russians can't swim and you see a bunch die every time temps rise there, some things will always happen. People die by fireworks every year in this country. Every couple years there's a stampede at some dumbass futbol tournament and people get trampled. Every month in this country a female teacher molests a kid, or a kid gets eaten by the family dog, or the kid shoots itself in the head...I can set my watch by these things. I could do more about all of these things theoretically than I could do about the weather.

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Friday, July 17, 2015 6:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WISH, three words make hash of your "It's happened before" response

average

global

temperature


No, it hasn't happened before.

At least, not in any geologic time that you'd want to (or could) live through.



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, July 17, 2015 8:21 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Jack, you make assumptions, and then you get twisted over them. If you're addressing 'me' specifically, when you say

"I'm sure two years ago when I sweltered in two months of 90+ degree temps and 15 days straight of 100+ temps, you suffered by paying a little more on your power bill and cool temps.... Walk a mile in another man's shoes.... You've never done it, at least not with weather conditions...."

then let me point out for the record, I have never lived in an air conditioned place - neither home nor apartment.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, July 17, 2015 4:55 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
WISH, three words make hash of your "It's happened before"


....and I have the same nine words I always have for you
"WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO ABOUT IT?

It's INDIA for fucks sake, they don't wanna join even the 20th century there's not much anyone can do. They wash in one dirty ass river they and their cows think is sacred. Ewwwww.

And I'm also saying even if the global temp has gone up (whether or not through our cause is pointless to argue, unless you have some power over peasants I don't know about) if we DO get a TWO YEAR FREEZE or even a summer freeze that is probably going to affect mean temps AGAIN. So complaining about something that is subject to change is a waste of complaining time. Find something *SPECIFIC* to kvetch about and get back to me, m'kay?



As for our A/C and heat, they run here all year and is likely to for as long as my kid is living. Being allergic to cold also means she can't go out and get hot in the summer and walk into cold AC so we keep the front part of the house 80 degrees and the back part 75 all summer so her skin doesn't shock. She wore a dress to a restaurant a few years back and they had high a/c on... all I have to do is look at her back as the skin is permanently damaged.

We have to keep the house temperate all year long here. Sorry 'bout that carbon footprint stuff. I can't help it.



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Saturday, July 18, 2015 12:45 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Find something *SPECIFIC* to kvetch about and get back to me, m'kay?'

What is more specific than people dying of extreme heat?

ETA: About this - 'It's INDIA for fucks sake, they don't wanna join even the 20th century there's not much anyone can do.'

I'm guessing you're old enough to remember the European heat wave of 2003. 'The 2003 European heat wave led to the hottest summer on record in Europe since at least 1540.[1] France was hit especially hard. The heat wave led to health crises in several countries and combined with drought to create a crop shortfall in parts of Southern Europe. Peer-reviewed analysis places the European death toll at more than 70,000.'

In Australia there was this - 'The Australian summer of 2012–2013, known as the Angry Summer or Extreme Summer, resulted in 123 weather records being broken over a 90-day period, including the hottest day ever recorded for Australia as a whole, the hottest January on record, the hottest summer average on record, and a record seven days in a row when the whole continent averaged above 39 °C.[1][2] Single-day temperature records were broken in dozens of towns and cities, as well as single-day rainfall records, and several rivers flooded to new record highs.' ... which resulted in about 200 deaths

Then there were northern hemisphere heat waves in 2010 - 'The 2010 Northern Hemisphere summer heat waves included severe heat waves that impacted most of the United States, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, China, Hong Kong, North Africa and the European continent as a whole, along with parts of Canada, Russia, Indochina, South Korea and Japan during May, June, July, and August 2010.'

Is the US a third-world country that deserves no compassion?



SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, July 18, 2015 11:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
WISH, three words make hash of your "It's happened before"- SIGNY

....and I have the same nine words I always have for you
"WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO ABOUT IT?
Whatever you can. Vote. Join an organization, like 350.org. Change the parts of your lifestyle that you can (not the parts that you can't). Be aware, even if you CAN'T do much about it, because an opportunity may come along where you can effect change.

Quote:
It's INDIA for fucks sake, they don't wanna join even the 20th century there's not much anyone can do. They wash in one dirty ass river they and their cows think is sacred. Ewwwww.
What does that have to do with record heat?

Actually, I saw an interesting photo .... same problem in Pakistan .... of large numbers of bodies being wheeled into the morgue to make a point that a lot of people were dying of the heat, and I thought Huh, that's interesting. You die of heat first, and THEN you're refrigerated? I guess that's because dead people wreak a certain inescapable vengeance- they smell. People who are alive and suffering are much more tolerable/ignorable.

Our collective worldwide problems are climate shift and environmental destruction, propelled by overpopulation. Overpopulation comes about when women's social, economic, and political role is restricted to "breeding", and access to birth control is controlled (by men). Lack of economic development prevents the "demographic shift" from occurring. So a foreign policy which supports dictatorships, an economic policy which drains weaker economies, and a military policy which destroys nations, drives instability, poverty, and overpopulation. Also ... do you have ANY IDEA HOW MUCH ENERGY OUR MILITARY USES???

Look at China versus India - they started out in about the same place: lots of poor peasants. With many missteps, China took control of its development. India continues to be preyed on. It's all one thing. If you think about it, I'm sure you'll find many avenues to "do something" about, preferably with some sort of organized group.

Quote:
And I'm also saying even if the global temp has gone up (whether or not through our cause is pointless to argue, unless you have some power over peasants I don't know about) if we DO get a TWO YEAR FREEZE or even a summer freeze that is probably going to affect mean temps AGAIN. So complaining about something that is subject to change is a waste of complaining time. Find something *SPECIFIC* to kvetch about and get back to me, m'kay?
The long term-trend is that global.average.temperature is going up, at rates and to levels not seen in the recent geologic past. The only thing that would change that to any appreciable degree would be either a series of catastrophic volcanoes, or something like a Maunder minimum (solar output). But once the ice is gone, we're screwed. You want to see HEATING? It'll happen then.

Quote:
As for our A/C and heat, they run here all year and is likely to for as long as my kid is living. Being allergic to cold also means she can't go out and get hot in the summer and walk into cold AC so we keep the front part of the house 80 degrees and the back part 75 all summer so her skin doesn't shock. She wore a dress to a restaurant a few years back and they had high a/c on... all I have to do is look at her back as the skin is permanently damaged.
Oh, that's terrible. My BIL is allergic to cold, but not to that extent. Funny thing is, we do the same with out house: one part is 75 deg, the other is 80. Not because of any allergies to cold, but simply to save on the A/C bill.

Quote:
We have to keep the house temperate all year long here. Sorry 'bout that carbon footprint stuff. I can't help it.
No, you can't. But I hope you realize, after my post, that there are a lot of aspects to global warming that have nothing to do with your personal consumption. I don't really think that we can solve anything through individual conservation. Like the slogan says Hitler wouldn't have been stopped by dumpster-diving. The only thing that really works is some sort of coordinated action.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, July 18, 2015 6:14 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What does that have to do with record heat?


do you have ANY IDEA HOW MUCH ENERGY OUR MILITARY USES???




Look at China versus India - they started out in about the same place: lots of poor peasants. With many missteps, China took control of its development. India continues to be preyed on. It's all one thing. If you think about it, I'm sure you'll find many avenues to "do something" about, preferably with some sort of organized group.

The long term-trend is that global.average.temperature is going up, at rates and to levels not seen in the recent geologic past. The only thing that would change that to any appreciable degree would be either a series of catastrophic volcanoes, or something like a Maunder minimum (solar output). But once the ice is gone, we're screwed. You want to see HEATING? It'll happen then.




1. If you have a group of people who cannot / do not learn about basic hygiene, what chance do you have to make arguments about Carbon Footprints?

2. No, I have no idea how much energy our military uses, and I doubt I'm going to affect one of the largest militaristic cultures on the planet, either. All the little boys here wanna join up and shoot people, so I doubt that is likely to change.

3.If this is something that means so much to you, why is the only thing you can tell me is "join an organization"? Not to mention, with homeschooling this year, I have NO EXTRA TIME...WHAT SO EVER. And as I've stated many times, the only reason I am still here is the internet meat shield. Interacting with actual people is and always will be FUTILE.

4. NEWSFLASH. The ice is going to go away at some point ANYWAY!!!

The ice could be gone at any time (solar or meteorite or massive volcano) and we could have nothing to do with it disappearing and we certainly couldn't FIX IT if it did happen. The only thing I know for sure is that NOTHING IS CERTAIN. Knowing that there has been a good half dozen mass extinctions already, we are bound for another at some point.
The further we are in time the more the probability rises that we will experience drastic temperatures previously unseen. We don't know enough about planet wide weather to be able to say ANYTHING with certainty. We've only been at this with any kind of dependability for the last 100 years or so. I also realize that we could be wiped off the planet any day and do not wish to waste me life complaining about global aspects I can't change.

SUCH IS LIFE. Unpredictable. Fragile. Inevitably tragic. Everything ends.


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Saturday, July 18, 2015 6:22 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:


1. If you have a group of people who cannot / do not learn about basic hygiene, what chance do you have to make arguments about Carbon Footprints?


WTF? Who are you talking about?

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Saturday, July 18, 2015 8:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
If you have a group of people who cannot / do not learn about basic hygiene, what chance do you have to make arguments about Carbon Footprints?
What we have is a group of people who have no time, resources, interest, or hope to do anything other than what they're doing. Maybe like you?



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, July 18, 2015 11:19 PM

WISHIMAY


I think I've watched a few too many documentaries and travel reviws about India, or you all haven't seen enough.

There are cities like anything you find here, and there are true hell holes.

http://www.all-about-india.com/Ganges-River-Pollution.html

Seriously. read dat.

Unlike HALF the people of India (literally, according to recent polls), I can and have built my own bathroom. I can do many things that would be like trying to teach my Chihuahua calculus if you tried it in certain parts of India. So yeah, I do begrudge them that. If they cannot look around and see the dysentery from the water, the free range shitting that goes on- hell in many parts of India you can't even shake their hands, because they use their HANDS to wipe with. If they cannot look around and see the overpopulation, disease and destruction....

but wait, this stuff is on the news every day and most of you have no clue what I'm talking about....





Main Points to consider....
Hundreds Unwanted or 'illegitimate' babies, cattle and other animal carcases are also dumped in the Ganges again with religious significance. The levels of Coliform bacteria is over 2800 times the level considered safe by the W.H.O (world health organisation).

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Sunday, July 19, 2015 12:17 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Woo Hoo. You're referring to a country with the second largest population in the world, one of the higest density per square kilometre, is the site of the oldest civisations in the world, has some of the most diverse terrain and climates, numerous langages (122 major languages and 1599 other languages according to wiki), also has one of the largest growing economies and largest growth in wages and the middle class. In other words, it's a highly complex, vibrant society that given the above, probably does a hell of lot better than one could possibly imagine. And yet, you've watched a couple of documentaries and decided to fixate on hygene.


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Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:26 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
And yet, you've watched a couple of documentaries and decided to fixate on hygene.



Fixate On hygiene? Yanno, 'cuz of how unimportant it is?

It's been over a hundred years since a car rolled offa production line, or a plane took to the skies, and these people still float their dead babies off in the same river they drink out of. DO YOU KNOW how toxic ONE dead body is? I mean, that's why we wear clean suits to just be NEAR one.
You choose to get fuzzy wuzzy about it and call them "complex"
Sorry, that's what we call "dumbasses" round these here parts, which by the way...compared to India we look like Einsteins.


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Sunday, July 19, 2015 4:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Wish

Just - wow.

Out of curiosity, did you have the advantage of getting a free education through high school? Are you lucky enough to live in an economy and a demographic that has more than the minimum to get you to tomorrow? Do you own a home? Did that infrastructure that was built for you, which you tied your bathroom into, make having one possible?

Are you giving yourself credit for those circumstantial advantages? Are you blaming people without the same benefits as you?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Thanks KIKI, I was getting there.

Don't know if you remember, WISH, but it was I who posted a link to photos taken by a Chinese(?) tourist, of all the dead things floating on the Mother Ganges, and of all the people "purifying" (or simply washing!) themselves in that stew. But one of the things I figured out was that these people believe the water is PURIFYING, not necessarily that it's pure. It's like a river of Holy Water: no matter how tainted, it's blessed. Article of faith, not simple ignorance.

WISH, in India the highest literacy rate is in "socialist" Kerala (another piece of evidence that capitalism is a predatory system) at 95%, but in the poorer states, it's no better than 60% and THAT percentage of illiteracy falls disproportionately on females:

Quote:
There is a wide gender disparity in the literacy rate in India: effective literacy rates (age 7 and above) in 2011 were 82.14% for men and 65.46% for women. [9] The low female literacy rate has had a dramatically negative impact on family planning and population stabillisation efforts in India. Studies have indicated that female literacy is a strong predictor of the use of contraception among married Indian couples, even when women do not otherwise have economic independence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India

So, little girls are supposed to educate THEMSELVES? In answer to KIKI's questions (to you) the answers are yes, yes, yes, and yes. They're doing what they do because all of society has thrown its weight against them. Maybe with your family's multiple health problems, you too are buried by circumstance. But there's no need to feel so superior to people who are dealing with even worse situations than yours.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:29 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Article of faith, not simple ignorance.

(another piece of evidence that capitalism is a predatory system)


What is the difference between faith and ignorance?
Not a damn thing. Both are just as likely to get you dead.

I would rather be with prick capitalists who don't deny education and religious rights, than socialists with their heads firmly entrenched up their asses.

And yeah, I'm not much of a flag waver, but in hygiene America IS pretty superior to India. And we did it in 200 years, and they've done next to nothing with all that land since 1C.E. The probability and pattern is they will continue to do nothing stellar. People will still be crapping in the streets 200 years from now.



Ps. It don't take much learning other than recognition of pattern to know "Don't drink water, it make you sick" Hell, dogs can do that.
Not to mention "If I get raped when I go outside to poop, I must build indoor plumbing" I mean, frontier people were doing that here 200 years ago.


If they cannot be bothered to even SEE an obvious problem, I cannot be bothered to care.


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Sunday, July 19, 2015 2:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
What is the difference between faith and ignorance?
"Faith" is when you believe something for which there is no evidence (or, for which there is evidence to the contrary). So even if you're TOLD the truth, you wouldn't accept it.

Ignorance lack of information, and is solved by education. Did I really have to tell you that?

Quote:
I would rather be with prick capitalists who don't deny education and religious rights
Why do you think that religious and education "rights" are so important? Isn't the purifying power of Ganges an article of "faith"? Didn't you just say that "faith" is likely to get you dead?
So why would you be so protective of something you so clearly hate?

Quote:
If they cannot be bothered to even SEE an obvious problem, I cannot be bothered to care.
Huh. So, next time you complain, don't expect anyone to even pretend to care, 'mkay?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:19 PM

WISHIMAY


Yer just typin' to type now, right?


Religion= Socially acceptable mind control.
My right to my mind isn't something I ever gave away to begin with.
Feel free to claim YOUR rights to be brainwashed, tho.
Welcome to Capitalism.


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Sunday, July 19, 2015 4:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Welcome to Capitalism."

Are you being ironic? I'm having a hard time telling, so I'm missing your point.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, July 19, 2015 7:14 PM

WISHIMAY


Sig was the one referencing Socialism/India vs the greed of Capitalism/U.S..

Basically, if you are so against Capitalism, I'm sure Cuba and Vietnam would love to have you.

The inherent nature of humans is not sharing. We are competitive. I am one of the least competitive people I know and it is STILL in there. I would not want to live where I had to depend on others to that degree.

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Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think you lost a lot of people with this argument:


It's INDIA for fucks sake, they don't wanna join even the 20th century there's not much anyone can do. They wash in one dirty ass river they and their cows think is sacred. Ewwwww.


If you have a group of people who cannot / do not learn about basic hygiene, what chance do you have to make arguments about Carbon Footprints?


Unlike HALF the people of India (literally, according to recent polls), I can and have built my own bathroom. I can do many things that would be like trying to teach my Chihuahua calculus if you tried it in certain parts of India. So yeah, I do begrudge them that. If they cannot look around and see the dysentery from the water, the free range shitting that goes on- hell in many parts of India you can't even shake their hands, because they use their HANDS to wipe with. If they cannot look around and see the overpopulation, disease and destruction....

Sorry, that's what we call "dumbasses" round these here parts, which by the way...compared to India we look like Einsteins.

they've done next to nothing with all that land since 1C.E. The probability and pattern is they will continue to do nothing stellar. People will still be crapping in the streets 200 years from now.


Ps. It don't take much learning other than recognition of pattern to know "Don't drink water, it make you sick" Hell, dogs can do that.
Not to mention "If I get raped when I go outside to poop, I must build indoor plumbing" I mean, frontier people were doing that here 200 years ago.


If they cannot be bothered to even SEE an obvious problem, I cannot be bothered to care.



Which translates, as best I can tell, as - I don't care if they were impoverished as a colony, then brutally exploited under capitalism - I got mine and it's their fault they didn't get theirs.

Also you're mistaken if you think India is socialist. 'I would rather be with prick capitalists who don't deny education and religious rights, than socialists with their heads firmly entrenched up their asses.' In Signy's example, the communists/ socialists (Chinese) have it all over the capitalists (Indians) in terms of education, standards of living, and environment. And hygiene too.

Finally, about this: 'Knowing that there has been a good half dozen mass extinctions already, we are bound for another at some point.' It's probably something one wouldn't want to live through, however. And if you are the cause - bathing in a global shit-hole of your own making, and inevitably killing yourself and others, to use your example - you could save yourself by not being so backwards.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, July 19, 2015 9:51 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
then let me point out for the record, I have never lived in an air conditioned place - neither home nor apartment.


Sucks, doesn't it 1kiki?

Gotta admit that it feels pretty damn nice to visit pretty much everyone in my family who does have A/C.

But... my lack of A/C is one of the many reasons that I always get that "Two Smiley Face" rating from my power company about how much less energy I'm spending compared to similar houses in my area.

I try to keep that in mind on days like yesterday when it's 95 degrees with 98% humidity and I don't have a pool.

Truth be told, if I were to have A/C, yesterday would have been the first day this year that I indulged.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


When I first moved into this neighborhood many decades ago, I was the newcomer and everyone else were the old, old-timers. These people had settled in in the 1930's at the start of their married and family lives. So I asked them - what did you do without air conditioning? And they said - we just moved slower. So maybe you can move slower? I know I do when it's warm. Also, I forget - do you have a basement? They tend to be cooler than the rest of the house ...

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 1:03 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Sig was the one referencing Socialism/India vs the greed of Capitalism/U.S..

Basically, if you are so against Capitalism, I'm sure Cuba and Vietnam would love to have you.

The inherent nature of humans is not sharing. We are competitive. I am one of the least competitive people I know and it is STILL in there. I would not want to live where I had to depend on others to that degree.

How did you manage to get so... weird ... in just a few short posts? You're obssesed with sanitation, and you want to hang on to your beliefs (like, the one about humans being competitive) and yet you think that beliefs will get you killed. I have no idea what just happened with you.

*Shrugs, walks away from discussing this with you*

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 1:28 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:


I don't care if they were impoverished as a colony,

In Signy's example, the communists/ socialists (Chinese) have it all over the capitalists (Indians) in terms of education, standards of living, and environment. And hygiene too.

It's probably something one wouldn't want to live through, however.


1.WHO WASN'T??? I'm IRISH. Hubbs is part INDIAN. I got a little Jew in there TOO. And Black people?? We still are not free range pooping. Most have managed at least toilets. Literally HALF of India has NO PLUMBING.

2. I seriously doubt the stats on that. Socialists have a history of lying to make themselves look good, and even then a broken clock can be right twice a day.

3. Never said I wanted to. In fact- hubby wanted to start stockpiling emergency stuff and I said "Don't bother". If the end of the world doesn't have stable air, and water, and anti-biotics and the half dozen meds we actually need to get through a day, we'll be dead within a year anyway. Enjoy Armageddon for me.






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Monday, July 20, 2015 1:39 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
... and yet you think that beliefs will get you killed..



Sigh, you people are incapable of reading between the lines...


Praying to any one of their 300 gods that the water don't kill them and being ignorant as to WHY the water kills them has exactly the same result.

DEATH.

And there is a HUGE difference in having religious beliefs in various invisible forces, and having beliefs about the actual observable nature of people and the patterns they behave in.

If you don't get that basic premise here, I don't have anything to discuss with YOU.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 1:45 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Wish has built up a soft spot in my heart just adjacent to where my Niece resides....

Right or wrong, I'll kill you or at least bark loud enough until you go away.

Wish is off limits here. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, July 20, 2015 1:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


So I was watching "Archer" and he was drinking a TON of alcohol and the CIA guy who was going to guide him up a mountain "frowned" against his drinking, as he drank a tub of blue liquor....

He said, "we're going to get up at DAWN"

Archer said, "A.M. Dawn?????"

To which the guy replied, "as opposed to....."

"P.M. Dawn", Archer said, to which Ray sang "Set Adrift on Memory Bliss"....

To which 6StringJack was infinately happy :)

EDITED TO AWESOMELY ADD FOR STUPID PEOPLE:



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, July 20, 2015 2:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What I get out of your posts, WISH, is that everyone else's beliefs are no good, but YOUR belief are A-OK. So, whatever.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 2:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


It worked great for the joke, and I snorted Miller High Life out of my nose....

But if you really don't know PM Dawn, I'd be doing you a disservice to not show you one of the best love songs ever made. Even if I don't know you or even if I don't like you, you should know this song.

It truly is one of the most beautiful songs ever made.

I hope you enjoy it as much as I have :)

from 6ix2U...





Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, July 20, 2015 2:12 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I understand that the pickings are pretty slim in these parts these days Sigs... :)

You know I love you Sigs, but don't start shit with Wish.

She's protected, unless she chooses not to be :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, July 20, 2015 9:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


JACK, what's with you and older women? You had an irrational hatred of NIKKI and drove her off the board, as far as I can tell, and now you've got an irrational bond with WISH. In any case, you can't tell me who to discuss things with and what I should/ shouldn't say. And if I should decide to disagree with WISH on any number of things, what are you going to do about it? Have a major snit? Get drunk and THEN have a major snit?

I'm sticking to a topic, and I'm being about as calm as I usually am, while WISH has gone off the deep end on me. It's on her, not me.

But thanks for the videos!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 1:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Literally HALF of India has NO PLUMBING."

Probably goes along with no running water or sewers - that infrastructure I mentioned that you have as an advantage the Indo-Indians don't.

BTW - when the NAmer-Indians were living in the forests and on the plains 150 years ago - where do you think they crapped? The nearest Ho-Jo? How about those Irish farmers who counted themselves lucky if they had a stream nearby? Your ancestral Jews who lived in the deserts - what kind of plumbing do you think they had? What did they use for toilet paper? (I'll give you a hint - there's a reason being called 'cack-handed' - another word for left-handed - is such an insult in that part of the world.)

India and Pakistan came into existence as countries in 1947. By comparison, the US came into existence in 1776, almost 150 years earlier, and based on centuries of British tradition of limited democracy. Give India and Pakistan another 150 years and see how they progress by then.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 3:36 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Have a major snit? Get drunk and THEN have a major snit?



This is what I mean. Observable patterns AND PEOPLE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

I know this is the internets and you can, but really, SHOULD YOU???





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Monday, July 20, 2015 3:39 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Give India and Pakistan another 150 years and see how they progress by then.


According to you all, we don't HAVE 150 years. And even if we do, would you wanna see what happens after a few more decades of kids swimmin' in sewers?



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Monday, July 20, 2015 3:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


We don't even have one day. The results of us crapping in our global waters, on our global lands, and in our global atmosphere are already here. We're already bathing in our global Ganges, only we're not doing it for a belief in purification, we're doing it for a belief in profit, propaganda, and inertia.

The differences between you and me are that I'm not mentally disposing of any concern over Indo-Indians because of their place on a historical timeline, I'm not absolving us for our emissions and our failure to do anything about them even when we knew better, and I'm not ready to kiss my ass goodbye - or those of my children or any children anywhere - because I'd prefer to subscribe to the religion of capitalism.

Because, as completely confused and unfocused as your posts were, that's what I got that you're doing.



SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 3:53 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I get out of your posts, WISH, is that everyone else's beliefs are no good, but YOUR belief are A-OK.


My beliefs are built on real observations, probability, and extrapolation.

Most people's beliefs are built on superstition, comforting delusions, fear response, and traditions from people than cannot be proven or cross-examined.

So, yeah. I trust me. You can trust whatever. I don't care.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 3:56 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
and I'm not ready to kiss my ass goodbye - or those of my children or any children anywhere - because I'd prefer to subscribe to the religion of capitalism.


You go ahead and naively fight capitalism, pollution, and human nature.

I'll accept reality.


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Monday, July 20, 2015 4:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You seem to think no good for humanity by humanity has ever been done anywhere. That's not reality.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 6:07 PM

WISHIMAY


Not on the scale that would be necessary to fix the cock-ups from the other 8 BILLION people.


It would take concerted effort from every person and considering that 1 out of every 3-5 people (depending on where you are at) has a MENTAL DISORDER and 2.3 million people are in prison (just this country) and there's a ton that just will never care- the likelihood that anything will change in any drastic way is very, very low.

And not in that cutesy "Spock, what are our chances?" way where they pull through anyway if they just believe hard enough, but in actual probability.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 7:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The chances are small - but not zero.

To make it happen we need governments to be behind it. To get governments behind it we need to act with groups of people. And we need to vote with that focus. Neither you nor I are going to change the direction humanity is going. But in concert with others it can happen.

And, uh, aside from being wrong on which system has improved the lives of people the most - you're not just bowing to what you think is a global Ganges fate. You prefer it - I would rather be with prick capitalists ...

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, July 20, 2015 8:14 PM

WISHIMAY


How the hell can you totally misinterpret just about everything I say???


Is it because I'm not a cheerleader for your cause?

Change can happen, and it can NOT.
You know, I'm not against you, I just don't believe in humanity. I'm for the environment but I know a single human life will usually trump anything, including the environment. Trumping 8 billion lives is not going to happen.

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Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WISH, you have a lot of "beliefs" ... about humanity, about capitalism, about socialism, about India, about history. But to you, your beliefs aren't beliefs, they're "the truth". I think you need to get over yourself.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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