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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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KPO- on any day, son, I can read western media and find another whopper. And I just found one. Look, here it is, in Reuters:

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Islamic State militants have made more than $500 million trading oil with significant volumes sold to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and some finding its way to Turkey, a senior U.S. Treasury official said on Thursday.

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Because, yanno, US government officials would never lie!
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-oil-idUSKBN
0TT2O120151210
-SIGNY

And you know this How, exactly!?
Let me see, a blanket statement that governments lie - Quelle surprise!
SGG

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How do I know this?

Because, among other things, it is presented ENTIRELY WITHOUT EVIDENCE. You, like G, KPO, and THUGR, don't even have the good sense to notice when you're dealing with 'allegation" versus "evidence".

Now, I have read reports and seen pictures posted by others - aside from Russia- which details the number of oil tankers trucks going from Syria and Iraq to Turkey. The reporters have calculated the amount of oil, followed it to Turkish refiners and to Turkish ports, and watched ship-to-ship transfers offshore etc. There is nothing like that in this article which, internally, doesn't even make sense.

Here, let me analyze the article for you.

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Islamic State militants have made more than $500 million trading oil with significant volumes sold to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and some finding its way to Turkey, a senior U.S. Treasury official said on Thursday.

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Okay then. As it stand, this is a bald, and somewhat garbled, allegation. An accusation with NO PROOF.

First of all, how does he know the value of the oil being sold? He would have to know both the volume and the prices of the various markets that its being sold into. That would require deep knowledge of Syrian state finances, Turkish finances, and other prices on the illegal market - information that I doubt that he has.

But, taking his statement at face value, and assuming a 50% (or more) discount from legal per barrel prices... If illegal oil is being sold at

$20 a barrel (or less) that means
250,000,000 (or more) barrels of oil sold, or
131,000 (or more) tanker trucks of standard USA size (about 8000 gallons)
11,000 (or more) tanker trucks a month
370 (or more) tanker trucks a day

That's a lot of tanker trucks! That would be visible by drone, or even by satellite! Where are they all going?

"SOME" is going to Turkey.
A "SIGNIFICANT VOLUME" is supposedly going to the Syria government

Now, there are a few things to think about:

1) Where is THE REST going? The statement, in its face, doesn't account for what seems to be a rather large remainder.

2) How is the oil supposedly transported to Syrian government-controlled areas? There are only two paths that the oil can follow ... (a) either out of ISIL-controlled Syria thru a neighboring country (which one? Iraq? Turkey?) and back in thru port, which would reveal a significant line of trucks going out, and ships coming in, or (b) directly into Syrian government-controlled territory, again, creating a significant line of trucks from ISIL territory into Damascus or other areas.

And if not trucks... if pipeline ... don't they know where the oil is coming from and going to?

With all of this oil-traffic supposedly going into government-controlled territory, don't you find it strange that there are no photos of roadways and trucks, no coordinates of pumping stations and pipelines, or ANY OTHER evidence presented in favor of this allegation?

ALSO, don't you find it strange that the USA and its "partners" have somehow NOT NOTICED this oil traffic until JUST NOW? Not targeted it at any time in the previous 14 months of bombing???

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The United States, France, Britain and Russia have vowed to defeat Islamic State, which uses an extreme interpretation of Islam to justify attacks and brutality in large parts of Syria and Iraq that it controls.

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Uh huh. What does this have to do with oil, especially oil to government-controlled Syria?

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A U.S.-led coalition is bombing the hardline Sunni group, as is Assad's only big-power supporter Russia, in an attempt to kill its leaders and cripple the oil wells which the group uses to finance its rule and attacks abroad.

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Uh huh. The USA didn't start bombing ISIL's oil assets until Russia helpfully point them out in several forums such as the G20 and UN.

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In one of the most detailed public explanations of Islamic State's oil trade, U.S. Treasury Department official Adam Szubin

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The same person that you have faith will stop terror financing networks

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said militants were selling as much as $40 million a month of oil at the installations which was then spirited on trucks across the battlelines of the Syrian civil war and sometimes further.

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And again, he just noticed this now. And has no evidence for his characterization of where the oil is going. Allegation, no proof.

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"ISIL is selling a great deal of oil to the Assad regime," Szubin, acting under secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence with the Treasury, told an audience at Chatham House in London.

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Once again, a bald statement with no proof.

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"The two are trying to slaughter each other and they are still engaged in millions and millions of dollars of trade," Szubin said of Assad's government and Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL.

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More bald statements, with no proof.

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The "far greater amount" of Islamic State oil ends up under Assad's control while some is consumed internally in Islamic State-controlled areas. Some ends up in Kurdish regions and some in Turkey, he said.

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More bald statements, with no proof.

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"Some is coming across the border into Turkey," Szubin said when asked for details on the money trail.

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More bald statements, with no proof.

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"Our sense is that ISIL is taking its profits basically at the wellhead

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That is an impossibility. ISIL still has to sell the oil somewhere in order to realize that profit

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and so while you do have ISIL oil ending up in a variety of different places that's not really the pressure we want when it comes to stemming the flow of funding - it really comes down to taking down their infrastructure,"

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In other words, bomb the oil wells, so that if the Syrian government retakes the oil-producing regions, it will have a big rebuilding job to do. (My speculation is that the USA is afraid that the Syrian government WILL prevail, and therefore is setting the stage for a "scorched earth" retreat. But that's just speculation so far. And I doubt they will be successful since Russia has basically just said they will shoot ANY unfriendly plane out of the sky.)

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Szubin said it was unclear whether the $40 million a month estimate could be multiplied over a year. But in remarks prepared for delivery, he said Islamic State had made more than $500 million from the oil trade, but did not give a more specific time period.

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Szubin is behaving like a guy who really wants a permanent appointment: he's saying exactly what his boss wants him to say.

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After Turkey downed a Russian fighter jet last month, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he had intelligence that large amounts of oil and petroleum products were moving across the border from Islamic State territories to Turkey.

The son of Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan has denied Russian allegations that he and his family were profiting from the illegal smuggling of oil from Islamic State-held territory.

"There is no question that better security, closing the Turkish border to flows is a key component right now and we are looking to the Turks to do more in that respect," Szubin said.

"It's not just a financial issue - it is about foreign terrorist flows, it's about weapons and it's about financing. I think securing that border would pay major dividends in terms of intensifying the pressure and also reducing the threat."

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Here, he seems to be intent on saving Recep Erdogan's son, Balil, from being linked to terrorist oil flows. So while he acknowledges that the Turkish border allows fighters and weapons to flow into ISIL-controlled Syria and stolen antiquities, opium, and (been said) human transplant organs to flow OUT of ISIL-controlled areas, this activity all magically stops with oil.

Uh huh.

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In an attempt to cut militants' links to the global financial system, Szubin said the United States had worked with Iraq to close down dozens of bank branches in Islamic State-held territories. Szubin said militants had looted up to $1 billion from bank vaults in Syria and Iraq, but he said Islamic State's oil trade was the main target.

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Because somehow $1 billion is less important than $500 million.

The rest is just other stuff, interesting but not relevant. Basically, the article is just one long propaganda piece for which the USA has not even bothered to cook up the faintest shred of evidence, published on the well-founded faith that most readers will swallow the article whole.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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How do I know this?

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Because, among other things, it is presented ENTIRELY WITHOUT EVIDENCE.

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How do I know this? - SIGNY

You don't.= KPO

Because, among other things, it is presented ENTIRELY WITHOUT EVIDENCE.-SIGNY

Logic fail. That doesn't mean it's a lie. It means it's an unsubstantiated claim.- KPO

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But all of this is tangential, because your point in this thread is not that Western governments lie, but that Western media lies.

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One of the ways that "truth" is made in the west is to use unreliable sources who helpfully stage convenient narratives for the media.., which dutifully passes on the disinformation. And sometimes, the media just makes shit up

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It's not personal. It's just war.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
SGG

I've been witness to facts never showing up in US news, and facts which were 'disappeared' out of the news.

When I lived much closer to Canada I would get my international news from CBC radio in addition to US sources, so I had a good opportunity to 'compare and contrast'. At the time the US was not reporting anything about Angola, though it was reported daily by CBC, which characterized it as a 'war', and included news about US involvement. It turns out the CBC was accurate, and US news - not at all.

Historians and former diplomats who have studied the documents say they show conclusively that the United States intervened in Angola weeks before the arrival of any Cubans, not afterward as Washington claimed. Moreover, though a connection between Washington and South Africa, which was then ruled by a white government under the apartheid policy, was strongly denied at the time, the documents appear to demonstrate their broad collaboration.

''When the United States decided to launch the covert intervention, in June and July, not only were there no Cubans in Angola, but the U.S. government and the C.I.A. were not even thinking about any Cuban presence in Angola,'' said Piero Gleijeses, a history professor at Johns Hopkins University, who used the Freedom of Information Act to uncover the documents. Similarly, cables of the time have now been published by the National Security Archive, a private research group.

''If you look at the C.I.A. reports which were done at the time, the Cubans were totally out of the picture,'' Dr. Gleijeses said. But in reports presented to the Senate in December 1975, ''what you find is really nothing less than the rewriting of history.''

Cuba eventually poured 50,000 troops into Angola in support of a Marxist independence group, the Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola. The group held the capital in the months just before independence from Portugal, declared in August 1975.

But Dr. Gleijeses's research shows that the Cuban intervention came in response to a C.I.A.-financed covert invasion via neighboring Zaire, now known as Congo, and South Africa's simultaneous drive on the capital, using troops who posed as Western mercenaries.

In another instance of news not showing up, there was a major power surge. It knocked radio and tv stations off the air for days, fried hospital and bank computers ... and also life-support equipment in intensive care units - that I PERSONALLY know of. You see, despite the fact that it affected a million people (going by the locations of the broadcasters that were silent), it was never reported, so I couldn't tell you the full extent of the event.

And, back in the days of pappy Bush and Iraq war part uno, as I was driving in to work I heard the tally of the vote of the Arab States to let the US in. I was only half-paying attention so the tally went past me. But it was SO startling I wanted to get the numbers. But after that broadcast they were nowhere to be found, no matter how hard I searched.

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There's KPO and his obsession again.

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It's like, when you get your ass handed to you in one thread

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It should certainly be a BIG RED FLAG to anyone reading this - or similar - articles. Bald-faced lies tend to work rather well because then there is no detail to pick apart.

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KPO: But all of this is tangential, because your point in this thread is not that Western governments lie, but that Western media lies.
Signy: No. that's not my claim.

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Signy: KPO- on any day, son, I can read western media and find another whopper. And I just found one. Look, here it is, in Reuters:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:


Greg Palast, The Guardian, reported on the cheating uproar during the 2000 election. Voter fraud and voter "spoilage" (as he termed it) and vote counting contributed greatly to that presidential race

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"It is the media's job to report these quotes and correctly attribute them."

You mean they work for the government by distributing its propaganda? And the more accurate they are in relaying the government line, the better the job they're doing?? Why didn't you just say so?

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It's not that hard kiki. It is the media's job to report the news. When a government makes a significant claim then that is news , and the media should report both the claim, and who said it. There is no propaganda in correctly reporting that important person X said Y.

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Contrast this to Russian media, which broadcasts the Kremlin's invented conspiracy theories about the CIA being behind ISIS

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the 'coup' to replace Yanukovich, and pretty much every evil in the world, as if they were established facts , and not very weakly substantiated claims/

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SIG

Yanno, I can get you to believe ANYTHING, and I don't have to fabricate anything. All I need to do is SELECT what you hear. Most propaganda is accomplished by selection, not by lies.

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SIG

So if on of the things I choose to report is a GOVERNMENT LIE, and I choose not to question it or to provide additional information, am I not participating in propaganda?

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So if one of the things I choose to report is a GOVERNMENT LIE, and I choose not to question it or to provide additional information, am I not participating in propaganda?

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Of course it is. The CIA has helped establish rat-lines (supply lines) to ISIL

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Yanukovich fled because of violence.

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The Party of Regions parliamentary faction said on Sunday it laid responsibility for the situation in Ukraine and the resulting fatalities on Viktor Yanukovych and his team.

"Now Ukraine is living through one of the most difficult and tragic periods in its history," the faction said in a statement. "The country finds itself deceived and robbed, but even this is nothing in comparison with the grief that dozens of Ukrainian families, who have lost their relatives, are feeling. Ukraine has been betrayed. Viktor Yanukovych and his team are responsible for this."

"We, the Party of Regions of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and our party members, strongly condemn the criminal orders that led to human losses, to the depletion of the state treasury and the drastic debt increase that shamed the government in the eyes of Ukrainians and the rest of the world. As a result, our country found itself on the edge of a precipice, faced the threat of break-up and loss of national sovereignty. The president failed to heed our advise when it was given to him," the Party of Regions says.

...

"We condemn the cowardly flight of Viktor Yanukovych. We condemn the betrayal on his part. We condemn the criminal orders, which exposed common people, soldiers and officers to certain risks"

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EXAMPLES: The "French Revolution" meets the definition of a coup, does it not? So does the "Russian Revolution" and the "American Revolution".

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Originally posted by kpo:
Then give me examples of historians calling the French Revolution 'a coup'. Or the American Revolution?

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You cannot forcibly remove a national government by throwing rocks/Molotov cocktails at riot police, or by occupying a few government buildings.

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Yanukovich fled because his own party disowned and abandoned him, leaving him vulnerable to impeachment. Even Russian news reported it

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a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics;
especially: the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group

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the sudden and illegal seizure of a state,usually [but not always- SIGNY] instigated by a small group of the existing government establishment to depose the established regime and replace it with a new ruling body. A coup d'état is considered successful when the usurpers establish their dominance. If a coup fails, a civil war may ensue.

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A quick and decisive extra-legal seizure of governmental power by a relatively small but highly organized group of political or military leaders, typically by means of the unexpected arrest or assassination of the incumbent chief executive and his principal supporters within the government. For the coup to be successful, the rank and file of the police and military have to be willing to take orders from the new government leaders once the coup is accomplished, so typically the organizers of successful coups have previously recruited important military and police commanders to their cause prior to going ahead with it. Most frequently, coups are initiated and led by high-ranking military officers. They are most apt to be successful in countries where both the general population's and the government bureaucracy's ideological dedication to upholding established constitutional procedures is relatively weak and consequently there is little danger of massive civilian resistance or non-cooperation by the rank and file of soldiers and other government employees.

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Then give me examples of historians calling the French Revolution 'a coup'. Or the American Revolution? If not then don't complain when I call your use of the word 'coup' brainless.

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Yanno, I can get you to believe ANYTHING, and I don't have to fabricate anything. All I need to do is SELECT what you hear. Most propaganda is accomplished by selection, not by lies.- SIGNY

I would say the fact that everyone but 1kiki constantly disagrees with you, shows you do not possess the intellect to change anyone’s mind about anything. Your point however does highlight your approach to posting. As I have said from day one. SUBJECTIVE....It was dumb of you to confirm that. Which proves my point about your intellect. - THUGR

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Of course you can, that's the definition of a coup (d'etat).

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The more I look into this, the more and more what happened in Ukraine meets the definition of a COUP

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the French nation faced a number of challenges (bad harvests, foreign war deficits, examples of revolutions overseas) which made the Revolution more broadly-based. The American Revolution initially started with a small group, not terribly popular, of men who stood to gain financially by removing British control, but eventually grew to encompass most of the population. Ditto the Russian Revolution.

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
wow, he's on fire! Say what you like about Trump, he might be loud, impolite, non-PC

but he's one hell of a scrapper

Trump shatters the media matrix and really lays a smackdown on this guy?

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" The 2014 Ukrainian revolution had a great deal of popular support of course."

Less than half

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a fact that could easily have been resolved in the next election - yanno - DEMOCRATICALLY.

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The fact that they didn't wait and unleashed violence directed at Yanukovych personally (by sending armed men to his official residence)

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I point this out to you every time and you conveniently forget it - Yanukovich RIGGED the last election, according to the OSCE.

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What expectation did the protesters have that any election he promised to hold would be fair?

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No, the only way DEMOCRATIC elections were going to be held was if Yanukovich was removed. And lo, that was exactly what happened.

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Here we go again!

get your gear and start to spend here we go, here we go, here we go. As some sort of prototype I serve to be
you see tomorrow's dream has never been part of me

Everything you don't use will lose its value tomorrow consumed too much today, you can always borrow this paradigm's the best one since the day of creation
get your gear and shape up, this is the revelation


1 dead, Admiral Akbar attack part II? 37 injured after car plows into different groups of pedestrians on Las Vegas Strip
This to me seems like this was purposely done. Right outside the Miss universe contest and had to go through barriers to get to the people.

Witness's reporting that she aimed for the people and kept driving as people were bouncing off the hood of the car. 3 men rushed her car and tried to stop her and she pulled away. 3 year old in the back seat. At least Eye witness account Says she didnt even slow down.
News reporting counter terrorism is on the scene.
Young male was dragged as she drove away. Confirmed.
She sped up hit the first group, got back on the road sped up and hit a second group. She was aiming for people. Police say they're looking at it as intentional, says its not terrorism. Police confirm it happened at several locations . Suspect not from Nevada, drove a 1996 oldsmobile.
Yeah, well after hitting people on the sidewalk, this one turned around and went back to hit more people on the sidewalk. And accelerated. It's no accident. A lot of the victims were French-speaking. TV said something about maybe from Canada.
Take your bets here! Is it terrorism? Is it work place violence? Is it purely accidental?
Caitlyn Jenner confirmed in the area at time of incident...her penis was unhurt
We need stricter regulations on these assault car vehicles!!! Must be angry Southern white male? Ban drivers liscence or banning cars in certain States?
Local musing whether this was terrorism, Nooze or dinosaur mainstream news is waiting for them to fax the politically correct play book for news items.
Police say its not terrorism because shes a woman? Weird thought process from the police.




...anyways don't sound like no accident IMO

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
those charts again



says nothing about using your vehicle or car as a weapon...the poor media of Las Vegas will have to figure out this one by themselves

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
quoted to prevent post-editing

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Here we go again!

get your gear and start to spend here we go, here we go, here we go. As some sort of prototype I serve to be
you see tomorrow's dream has never been part of me

Everything you don't use will lose its value tomorrow consumed too much today, you can always borrow this paradigm's the best one since the day of creation
get your gear and shape up, this is the revelation


1 dead, Admiral Akbar attack part II? 37 injured after car plows into different groups of pedestrians on Las Vegas Strip
This to me seems like this was purposely done. Right outside the Miss universe contest and had to go through barriers to get to the people.

Witness's reporting that she aimed for the people and kept driving as people were bouncing off the hood of the car. 3 men rushed her car and tried to stop her and she pulled away. 3 year old in the back seat. At least Eye witness account Says she didnt even slow down.
News reporting counter terrorism is on the scene.
Young male was dragged as she drove away. Confirmed.
She sped up hit the first group, got back on the road sped up and hit a second group. She was aiming for people. Police say they're looking at it as intentional, says its not terrorism. Police confirm it happened at several locations . Suspect not from Nevada, drove a 1996 oldsmobile.
Yeah, well after hitting people on the sidewalk, this one turned around and went back to hit more people on the sidewalk. And accelerated. It's no accident. A lot of the victims were French-speaking. TV said something about maybe from Canada.
Take your bets here! Is it terrorism? Is it work place violence? Is it purely accidental?
Caitlyn Jenner confirmed in the area at time of incident...her penis was unhurt
We need stricter regulations on these assault car vehicles!!! Must be angry Southern white male? Ban drivers liscence or banning cars in certain States?
Local musing whether this was terrorism, Nooze or dinosaur mainstream news is waiting for them to fax the politically correct play book for news items.
Police say its not terrorism because shes a woman? Weird thought process from the police.




...anyways don't sound like no accident IMO

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
quoted to avoid post-editing (removal)

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
those charts again



says nothing about using your vehicle or car as a weapon...the poor media of Las Vegas will have to figure out this one by themselves

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How did he rig the last election?

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KPO:

"Compare that with Yanukovich's track record of holding elections - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20120888

The OSCE said the elections "were marked by the abuse of state resources, lack of transparency of campaign and party financing and the lack of balanced media coverage", and were a backwards step for democracy after the 2010 election held by the previous pro-Western government that was recognised as free and fair. "

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Were the elections to be held under international observation?

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And the NEXT elections - which bypassed a significant number of Ukrainians .... were so much fairer!

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SIG

Meanwhile, Turkey is stationing its military in Qatar, and has "invaded" Iraq. ITs troops are now using tanks and troops to sanitize its own Kurdish regions, as the Kurdish leaders visit Moscow. Can you say "civil war"? Sure you can!.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
SIG quotation marks are a signal to the reader about the true meaning of the sentence.

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Select to view spoiler:

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So when one reads the sentence and even the rest of the quote, it is obvious what you meant to say.

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It is your opinion

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that Turkey invaded Iraq. You would needed to add the words (did not) and then "invade" in quotes, for it to mean what you now claim it to mean.

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Meanwhile, Turkey is stationing its military in Qatar, and has "invaded" Iraq. ITs troops are now using tanks and troops to sanitize its own Kurdish regions, as the Kurdish leaders visit Moscow. Can you say "civil war"? Sure you can!.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

There is a difference between THUGR is a genius., and THUGR is a "genius". And everyone knows it except THUGR, who is a "genius".

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The article goes on to say
Two international observer missions gave much more positive assessments than the OSCE's. The 56 members of the European Academy for Elections Observation, most of whom are European Parliament members

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Observers from the ex-Soviet countries in the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) called the election "transparent and democratic".

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it didn't stop Yanukovich rigging them.

And here's where you - yet AGAIN! - cherry pick the small bit out of the article...

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And kiki, didn't you have evidence of a coup as well? Armed men storming Yanukovich's residence?

Actually, I didn't say 'STORMING'. So nice of you to put words in my mouth

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Here we go again!

get your gear and start to spend here we go, here we go, here we go. As some sort of prototype I serve to be
you see tomorrow's dream has never been part of me

Everything you don't use will lose its value tomorrow consumed too much today, you can always borrow this paradigm's the best one since the day of creation
get your gear and shape up, this is the revelation


1 dead, Admiral Akbar attack part II? 37 injured after car plows into different groups of pedestrians on Las Vegas Strip
This to me seems like this was purposely done. Right outside the Miss universe contest and had to go through barriers to get to the people.

Witness's reporting that she aimed for the people and kept driving as people were bouncing off the hood of the car. 3 men rushed her car and tried to stop her and she pulled away. 3 year old in the back seat. At least Eye witness account Says she didnt even slow down.
News reporting counter terrorism is on the scene.
Young male was dragged as she drove away. Confirmed.
She sped up hit the first group, got back on the road sped up and hit a second group. She was aiming for people. Police say they're looking at it as intentional, says its not terrorism. Police confirm it happened at several locations . Suspect not from Nevada, drove a 1996 oldsmobile.
Yeah, well after hitting people on the sidewalk, this one turned around and went back to hit more people on the sidewalk. And accelerated. It's no accident. A lot of the victims were French-speaking. TV said something about maybe from Canada.
Take your bets here! Is it terrorism? Is it work place violence? Is it purely accidental?
Caitlyn Jenner confirmed in the area at time of incident...her penis was unhurt
We need stricter regulations on these assault car vehicles!!! Must be angry Southern white male? Ban drivers liscence or banning cars in certain States?
Local musing whether this was terrorism, Nooze or dinosaur mainstream news is waiting for them to fax the politically correct play book for news items.
Police say its not terrorism because shes a woman? Weird thought process from the police.




...anyways don't sound like no accident IMO

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Originally posted by 1kiki:


Lakeisha N. Holloway is still not a Muslim terrorist.

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