Just stop the useless complaining. by LostInTheVerse

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 6:32 AM

ZEEK

I 100% agree. First off, I haven't actually heard of anyone who really left for Canada. It's all just talk. Second, how would that solve a darn thing? It would just mean that next election your voice won't be heard cause you won't be voting. Running away from a problem is hardly a solution. The world isn't coming to an end. I promise.

You still have your freedom of speech. This is just a plee to use it constructively rather than just to annoy everyone. Go out and try to fix the problems if you believe in what you say.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 6:48 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by LostInTheVerse:
Hooray for all you melodramatic pricks! Your bitching about how "I'm moving to Canada so I can run away from my Country's problems and live with a bunch of French Communists"

Cute.

Quote:
and "Oh no! 4 of more years of George Bush as President means Armageddon! It's the end of days! Everyone must sacrifice their firstborn son! Repent or burn, all ye heathens!" has been quite entertaining. But, stop. That's it. Just stop. It's useless. It's annoying.

So sorry opinions upset you.

Quote:
If the President does anything to piss you off that much, arrange a peaceful gathering to protest whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want.

You mean like the protest against the Invasion of Iraq? The protest where police beat and jailed people illegally. The protest that was the largest in planetary history? A protest joined by concerned people all over the world?

The protest ignored by America?

Quote:
Write to your Representative and your Senator about it. Work to vote down everything the man tries to do. It'll be more fulfilling, more productive, and more respectable than crying yourself to sleep every night over something you very much have control of. Seriously people, it's not cute anymore. Quit your bitching and do something about it.

That's it. I'm fed up. You all have seen my posts, you know I'm typically very gracious and try to only discuss positions and issues, but I'm just tired of having my intellect and personality come into question based on how I vote.

I'm tired of all this useless complaining. If you want to discuss issues and our positions on them, great. If you want to discuss possible solutions for problems, even better. If all you have to say is "Anyone who voted for Bush is a moron." or "That's it, I'm moving to Canada.", don't. Unless you want help packing your bags, in which case just ask and I'll see what I can do.

If you aren't one of the people that the above rant refers to, I'm sorry for wasting your time.

Just one (angry) man's opinion. Do what you will with it.

People have been doing something about it for years only to be ignored, beaten, jailed, and had thier human rights taken from them. America is not a place one can protest safely, the police will arrest you if you are even a member of a group known to protest. If you are simply Arab you are problably on a terrorist list. Thousands are held right now, and for years, without any representation or even a chance to see loved ones.

If you think writing a letter will help I can't but think you believe America isn't the fascist state it is. The law of the land has changed in America and it's not catching terrorists... it's catching Americans.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:24 AM

Whoa! nothing that you have done and can ever do is going to change anything? I guess it's time to just go ahead and dig your own grave and shoot yourselves.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:49 AM

It is not useless complaining. It is frustrated venting due to impotent rage over being marginalized by our government.

No matter what has been said or done to DO SOMETHING - there has always been a 'spin' put on it. Anybody can make statistics dance. Trick is – to look at ALL the data. From the stats you trust all the way to the stats made by your sworn enemy. A different picture emerges, much different that either side of the teeter-totter would want you to know. To get balance – the governing body must WANT balance. But nobody wants to lose power. Power corrupts, etc …

We concerned Americans are in a quandary: Do we accept the loss of freedoms and find ourselves learning a new salute and a funky way of marching...

OR

Do we find others means to protest - in a country that now overwhelmingly states that protests are traitorous acts and our freedoms are stripped for our 'safety'...

OR

Do we bog off and be come an expatriate and hope the rest of the world remembers the lessons learned from WW2.

Let the folks vent – if you don’t like the threads – DON’T Read Them. They are not like pop-up ads… it is not truly “In Your Face”. Allow others to have the freedom of speech. I am not saying don’t put up a thread like this, because you are venting your frustration too. Just remember to allow others to do the same.

Sigh - sorry, I am a tad tetchy right now.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:51 AM

I almost entirely agree with Lostintheverse's post.

However, due to comical uncertainty as to whether my work computer will allow me to post, I shall do this little missive and follow up with a chunk of thought.

Cheers,

Pete

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 8:17 AM

CapnRahn:
I agree with your post, to an extent. I never said it should be illegal to complain, it shouldn't be. People are allowed to complain as much as they want. It'd just be less annoying to me if they did it in a productive manner.

If you feel marginalized volunteer for a campaign somewhere, maybe run for public office. Get your views out there. Start a productive organization to combat one or two or ten of the wrongs on your list. There are myriad ways to demarginalize oneself.

If anyone were to suggest that somebody shouldn't be allowed to say something, I would fight them tooth and nail in a heartbeat.

Ghoulman:
I understand your point of view. I disagree with it. I don't see this country as fascist.

I voted for Bush this time around. If you think that makes my hands blue, so be it.

~ Lost In The 'Verse

"About a year before we met, I spent 6 months on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 8:17 AM

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 8:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Actually, I DO BOTH. I vote, write to my Senators and Representative, write to the newapapers, comment directly to the FCC, Justice Department or wherever during public comment periods. I donate rather large sums of money to the causes of my choice. I work in a field that I believe does society some good (air pollution control) in ways that actually help business. I don't demonstrate (because it usually doesn't get any results) but I DO discuss issues... mostly in a rational manner.

I also bitch because, well, I'm scared. I've run into about a half-dozen Bush supporters on this board who no longer have a viewpoint because in order to have a viewpoint, you actually have a view. In other words, you actually have to be looking at something- able to take in and accept what the evidence of their senses tells them- and they're so far out of the real world that they're scary. People STILL think that Saddam had WMD in 2003. People STILL think that Saddam suported ObL. People are absolutely convinced that we are the good guys, even if our death toll tops Saddam's. And I think that is indicative of Bush, his Administration, and many (not all) of his supporters.

I'm willing to discuss anything with anyone in a rational manner, but when people point to lack of evidence as evidence, then reality has clearly gone out the window.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 8:46 AM

I can understand a high degree of upset - after all some people believe that this election is the most significant in a long while - amongst the democrats, and therefore I'd cut them a little slack for their grief over the following week or two.

After that, I'd club them to death with a cricket bat. Or something. Stiff upper lips all round, folks! It's the British way!

Lostintheverse is right, word without deed is useless. You have to fight to make your views heard, it's no use just complaining idly, then running out when election time comes and complaining that you're robbed - you have to force the people on high, and the community, to take notice of you through action.

No, not custard pie terrorism (Mmmm, custard pie terrorism) but by assessing each Republic proposal and policy that you care about and letting your voice be heard over it. With placards. With letters. With votes. With boycotts.

Hate mega-corporations like Fox and Esso and Coca-cola? Boycott them as much as is practical (sadly difficult to escape accidently giving them money - my main arguement against how the US is going) and spread information about their doings! Hit 'em where it hurts, with information and badmouthing and protesting! Leave flyers as to obvious injustices (and they have to be obvious, people can take a lot of crap from corporations)

Refuse to listen to Clearwater and write letters etc. as to how you find their clear bias intolerable. Promote the few remaining independant alternatives.

Lobby your local political figures, but politely and with well researched facts and good grammar. Nothing makes a politician play basketball with your letter and a bin faster than an angry rant.

Gather. And protest. In public places. If the police try to move you on, obey, unless you are in a public park or plaza. Then sit down. If they try to move you on by force take photos and notes (maybe the officer's badge number), and try to get back later.

Politeness is everything, even when you are fighting for what you believe in. A land of hate and bile and shouts and taunts and arrogance and ignorance is not a land that cares for democracy.

IF someone states an arguement that you do not agree with, research their arguement and then respond to it politely. Try to strike up a discourse. If they rant at you, offer them the same reasoned arguement. If they rant at you again, either shake your head sadly in word or person - or punch them in the gut for lack of respect and manners. (Punching reliant on appropriate weight ratio)

The only way we can change the world to make it a better place, sans use of force, is by treating each other like humans and monopolies as entities to be mistrusted and tolerated at best.

Saying that Bush is an idiot helps no one. It has been said before. Find something you care about that Bush is embroiled in (Enron? Gay rights?) and fight!

Calling Kerry a flip flopper and a commie is laughable now. Calling Democrat's wimps and bleeding heart liberals is boorish and against democratic principle. Discuss things. Respect opinions. Check to see if you are indeed as right as you believed on a matter.

Conspiracy theories from questionable sources won't convince anyone. Using data gathered by the UN/Amnesty internation and the Red Cross will. Using data from AP and Reuters and independant broadsheets will.

The radio and television are useless for balanced information.

Democrats - question your party.

Republicans - question your party.

On no account lamblast Republican's for their choice! You want them to change their vote next time, you're going to have to convince them with FACT, nicely, and without rancour.

And please don't solely post political stuff here. It does my head in.

To those outside America, (like me) the only way you can count is by occassionally flicking fact towards our American cousins/friends and pressurising our leaders to side for/against Bush on foreign policy.

Play nice people. Keep Fireflyfans.net 85% politics free.

Thanks for listening to me blather. Thanks for your comments Lostintheverse.

Love to you all!

Pete

P.S: See this post for advice to fellow internationals and my emotional reaction to the election. Stiff upper lips all round!

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=7&t=7787

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 8:56 AM

Pete: Thing is -- yes, I have done all that and so have millions of others. To no avail. Fear is running rampant and the 'bad guys' are using it to its full extent.

So, by voting for Bush, I take it you agree in full with the Patriot Act.

And no, your hands are not 'ones of blue' - I just cannot see your perspective.

USA is mired in one of the worst times in our history.

Is that deniable?

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There are two big problems in ther United States that prevent rational discussion, one that most other devloped nations don't have and can't possibly comprehend from a distance.

The first is the media. Our media has been completely supine because its owned by big corporations, and George has promised them that they can get even bigger. In the past four years, there have been major scandals in the Bush administration and Republican policy - the energy trading deregulation that gave us Enron, torture at Abu Ghraib, the complete f*ck-up in Iraq, the outing of Valerie Plame (treason) and the fact that Bush was dragged kicking and screaming before the 9/11 commission. Each scandal got, oh, say 2 days to 2 weeks in the press.

Now, HOW MANY days/ weeks/ months did we hear about Monica Lewinsky??

The other is religion, and I vote that be our post-election topic. The USA is the most religious developed nation. Quite frankly, I have a problem with religion. I see no difference between one invisible being and another, whether it be Jesus or a six-foot white rabbit named Harvey. Religious people who believe that god has spoken to them are no longer looking at the real world. They deny the evidence (or lack of evidence) of their senses and insist that something is there that they can't point to. They stop asking questions with open-ended answers. It's just a short step from "believing" in god to "believing" in WMD, and once you get to that point, rational discussion is no longer possible.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:08 AM

I have the solution. Cause all the liberals to be killed via abortions by whores of mothers that brought them kicking and screaming from the womb. Then we don't have to listen to the whining and gnashing of teeth. They have two choices here. They can accept what the MAJORITY of the people have spoken for, and work WITH the system to make this country a better place, or they can cry in the wilderness, pulling out hair, smearing ashes in their clothes and on their face, and many other classical episodes of mourning. It seems rather thatn work, they'd rather cry and bitch and moan. They wanted a liberal president so they wouldn't actually have to do any work themselves, after all. So whine and gnash and moan and bitch. Just don't be surprised when I shoot you in the face for it. You were warned.

Me for Emperor of America in '08

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:10 AM

Gray Jedi: 5 words - Popular Vote VS Electorial College.

Majority does NOT necessarily rule ...

EDIT
Fine scarcasm there - it will surely pull together the factions here!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:21 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
They wanted a liberal president so they wouldn't actually have to do any work themselves, after all. So whine and gnash and moan and bitch. Just don't be surprised when I shoot you in the face for it. You were warned.

And we see here one of those pod-people with whom rational discussion is not possible. Thank you for providing this example. I'm going to cross post this (and examples from the rest of you- and you know who you are) to every conservative who complains about how "liberals" are so mean-spirited.

BTW, you DID just threaten a whole bunch of people, you know.

Yeah, let the healing begin. NOT WITH YOU. I'm going to take the advice of that wise old philosopher- never get mad...

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:31 AM

Yes, but this time around, Rahn, Bush has both the popular and electoral majority.

And SignyM, I never said liberals were mean-spirited. I'm a bastard, an asshole of the highest order. Mine is a reactionary assedness. If people are going to sit and cry and gnash about something that's done, finished and out of their hands, then they need to leave. Worry about the things you can do something about. Like that whole writing to your congressmen and congresswomen. Voting at every given opportunity for those who better fit your ideals. I can be reasoned with. Did you even bother to read the open letter I wrote about the election in my blog? I'd rather be reasonable. But all your particular kind of knee-jerk liberal wants is a fight. Well, here it is, in all it's evil, money-grubbing. hand-wringing, back door dealing, hate everyone but white conservative men glory. So bring it on, ya commie pinko leftist hippy fag.

PS - troll troll troll troll troll

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:33 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I respectfully suggest that we no longer respond to the GreyJedi.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:38 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Actually, I DO BOTH. I vote, write to my Senators and Representative, write to the newapapers, comment directly to the FCC, Justice Department or wherever during public comment periods. I donate rather large sums of money to the causes of my choice. I work in a field that I believe does society some good (air pollution control) in ways that actually help business. I don't demonstrate (because it usually doesn't get any results) but I DO discuss issues... mostly in a rational manner.

I also bitch because, well, I'm scared. I've run into about a half-dozen Bush supporters on this board who no longer have a viewpoint because in order to have a viewpoint, you actually have a view. In other words, you actually have to be looking at something- able to take in and accept what the evidence of their senses tells them- and they're so far out of the real world that they're scary. People STILL think that Saddam had WMD in 2003. People STILL think that Saddam suported ObL. People are absolutely convinced that we are the good guys, even if our death toll tops Saddam's. And I think that is indicative of Bush, his Administration, and many (not all) of his supporters.

I'm willing to discuss anything with anyone in a rational manner, but when people pointing to lack of evidence as evidence, then reality has clearly gone out the window.

Doesn't anyone else see the irony here?

"People STILL think that Saddam had WMD in 2003."
"people pointing to lack of evidence as evidence, then reality has clearly gone out the window."

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:43 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I'm not sure I get your point? What's the irony? When someone says the fact that no WMD were found proves that Saddam had them... how does one proceed?

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:45 AM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

Whoa! nothing that you have done and can ever do is going to change anything? I guess it's time to just go ahead and dig your own grave and shoot yourselves.

You first.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:50 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Jasonzz, thank you for another shiny example of Bush-suporter rationality and reasonableness. This is another candidate for cross-posting. I don't like being threatened, or told to commit suicide.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:52 AM

CONNORFLYNN

Quote:
Originally posted by TheGreyJedi:
Well, here it is, in all it's evil, money-grubbing. hand-wringing, back door dealing, hate everyone but white conservative men glory. So bring it on, ya commie pinko leftist hippy fag.

AWESOME ROFLMFAO!!!!

Obviously folks don't have a sense fo your humor GreyJedi.

PS: This election made me so much money just in Kleenex Stock!!! HOOHAH.. Thank You Dems! I shal drink a Black and Tan in your honor.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:01 AM

TRAGICSTORY

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There are two big problems in ther United States that prevent rational discussion, one that most other devloped nations don't have and can't possibly comprehend from a distance.

The first is the media. Our media has been completely supine because its owned by big corporations, and George has promised them that they can get even bigger. In the past four years, there have been major scandals in the Bush administration and Republican policy - the energy trading deregulation that gave us Enron, torture at Abu Ghraib, the complete f*ck-up in Iraq, the outing of Valerie Plame (treason) and the fact that Bush was dragged kicking and screaming before the 9/11 commission. Each scandal got, oh, say 2 days to 2 weeks in the press.

Now, HOW MANY days/ weeks/ months did we hear about Monica Lewinsky??

The other is religion, and I vote that be our post-election topic. The USA is the most religious developed nation. Quite frankly, I have a problem with religion. I see no difference between one invisible being and another, whether it be Jesus or a six-foot white rabbit named Harvey. Religious people who believe that god has spoken to them are no longer looking at the real world. They deny the evidence (or lack of evidence) of their senses and insist that something is there that they can't point to. They stop asking questions with open-ended answers. It's just a short step from "believing" in god to "believing" in WMD, and once you get to that point, rational discussion is no longer possible.

The media is controlled by the laws of economics. I would argue that those things didn't make the news because *people* really don't care about it. Enron hearings, 9/11 hearings and so on arn't really news. Americans like sex scandals and celebrity trials. I know Martha Stewart has stolen eggs and crab apples while in jail because American LOVES to see rich people fall. Average Joes or Ahmids? Not a care.

As for religion:

You would be surprized how much of what you "know" as real is actually taken on faith. Science is a belief system. There are thousands of "facts" we know only because they were indoctrinated into us as children. They might all be "provable" but how many have actually been proven to you and how many did you take on faith that your teacher wasn't lying to you? Finally on the point of "provable" using a scientific method to prove science should be no more valid than using a spiritual method to prove reality.

And on a closing thought:
They rabbit is gray, his name is Frank and he told me the world was going to end. (I'm a Donnie Darko fan)
-----
As for the original post:
I agree 100% that the ad homin attacks must stop. If your guy lost, that is no excuse to personally attack the people who do not share your views.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:08 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There are two big problems in ther United States that prevent rational discussion, one that most other devloped nations don't have and can't possibly comprehend from a distance.

The first is the media...

The other is religion, and I vote that be our post-election topic.

So start a thread. I already broke my promise to Daddy by arguing about politics, so I might as well hit religion too, although I feel it'll be more about politics anyway. I have some ideas about religion and politics, and politics as religion that you'll probably not like.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:10 AM

GHOULMAN

... just to interject.

Religion is based on faith (in a belief system) without proof.

Science is based on proof to support faith (in a theory).

The difference with science is that when the proof changes, so does the faith.

Religions never change.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:19 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

You're talking to someone who is a scientist and has a smattering of philosophy. If we were to discuss this at length, we would eventually get to our "a priori" assumptions. My a priori assumptions are:

There is a real world.
We are connected to it through our senses.

What are yours?

As for science: Science is not a collection of "facts", it is a process of asking questions and testing the answers. Religion, however, does not put it's answers to the test. Science has allowed us to design an electric light switch that works most of the time. I can't say the same thing about religion.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Jasonzz, thank you for another shiny example of Bush-suporter rationality and reasonableness. This is another candidate for cross-posting. I don't like being threatened, or told to commit suicide.

hey whatever. label me whatever you need to if it gets you past you faking your way thru your support group. I stated my opinion and response to the completely self-defeating fatalistic viewpoints illustrated before where upon "nothing that has ever been done and nothing that ever can be done will affect any change" along with an extreme hyperpole to what must be the naturally extended conclusion.

oooooh, I am so scared of you cross-posting me. Look, if you can't stand on your own 2 feet and have a good rational discussion. If you can't understand the juxtaposition of humour along with the dopey idiotic self-defeating fatalistic spew that's been going on. Then I suppose you do need to inform your support group of "look, what mean people there are out there.! "

But when you are all done, and you feel all better about yourselves. You've dried your tears and had a nice warm meal or two along with a good night of rest. I am all ears of constructive talk and how we can make this whole thing work.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:22 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The usual trio of verbotten subjects is politics, religion, and sex. Sex is boring. We need a third verbotten topic.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:26 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Obviously folks don't have a sense of your humor GreyJedi

Oh, really? I thought I was being threatened. It's called "assault". It might even be called "terrorist threat", I don't know. I was going to ask Haken to ID TheGreyJedi so I could let the FBI sort out this particular use of the internet.

HAHAHA!. JUST KIDDING!!

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:58 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I take it you didn't care for my joke? Hey I was just making a point- don't get your shorts in a knot. The point is that threats are not part of a rational discussion. When you feel ready to discuss, let's talk.

BTW, I WAS blown in to the FBI from another bbx because I just kept PREDICTING stuff that was going to happen. (There's that scientific bent in me that tells me that a hypothesis isn't any good unless you can predict things ahead of time. And since I kept predicting things, I assume my hypotheses were good. Look what it got me- SHEESH!!)

All they do is follow you around for a couple of days. And when they find your life is as boring as sh*t and you aren't a threat- they stop!

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 11:12 AM

GHOULMAN

The only irony I find here SignyM is that these Right Wing Bushites are so insecure in thier "victory" they feel a need to stop any criticism.

After all, why tell people to stop complaining? Isn't this America? It's the land of bitching! That's what makes America great... constant bitching.

If Americans stop bitching the world is doomed.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 11:14 AM

Yes! I'm a Republican Terorist! Bring it on, commie pinko leftist hippy fudge-packer! I'm going to drive my car into your living room! Then kick your dog! Also, your mom wanted me to let you know that you'll never be as good as your dad in the sack and you should really quite trying.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 11:15 AM

Also, I'm a mean son of a bitch.

Troll.

Troll troll.

Troll troll troll.

Troll.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 11:16 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Ghoulman- hahahaha!! Indeed, the land of constant bitching! After all, if the colonists hadn't bitched about King George, we'd still be under a monarchy!

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Ghoulman- hahahaha!! Indeed, the land of constant bitching! After all, if the colonists hadn't bitched about King George, we'd still be under a monarchy!

Except that they never ones thought that the moaning and groaning was worthwhile, turned their useless bitching into action and did something about it. They went and build something better.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Ghoulman- hahahaha!! Indeed, the land of constant bitching! After all, if the colonists hadn't bitched about King George, we'd still be under a monarchy!

Except that they never ones thought that turned their useless bitching into action and they did something about it. They went and build something better.

Um, Jasonzzz, is English not your first language? I can't make out what you're trying to say. Maybe if you wrote it in the original Slow Mutantese, then SignyM or Ghoulman, whom I've seen to be fluent in Slow Mutant, can translate for us.

And long live King George. Republics are a failed experiment. We will all see so in time. They never last.

--------------------------------------------------
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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:01 PM

Ghoulman: I'm not saying don't criticize. I'm saying don't whine. Criticism is a good thing, especially when it's backed up by facts and research.

Signym: Yeah then they actually did something about it. They didn't just sit down crying and making each others ears bleed.

I'd have written a thread about degenerate name-calling, but if I try to stop the whining and the name-calling there'd be no fun left in modern society

.

~ Lost In The 'Verse

"About a year before we met, I spent 6 months on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:01 PM

.

~ Lost In The 'Verse

"About a year before we met, I spent 6 months on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:04 PM

There's this blog. It's written by a moderate Democrat who was an avid Kerry supporter, and hated Bush with all the fires of the seven hells. Read what he had to say about it:

http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/

Quote:

1. If you're depressed about the election, well, you have cause. Take the rest of the week to be depressed. Heck, take the weekend.

2. Anyone still paralyzed by liberal depression at midnight, Monday November 8 will be summarily brained with a plank. There's too much to do to tolerate your whiny, ineffectual ass after that point.

You either lie down or you stand up.

--------------------------------------------------
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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:09 PM

huh?

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:11 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Originally posted by LostInTheVerse:
Hooray for all you melodramatic pricks! Your bitching about how "I'm moving to Canada so I can run away from my Country's problems and live with a bunch of French Communists" and "Oh no! 4 of more years of George Bush as President means Armageddon! It's the end of days! Everyone must sacrifice their firstborn son! Repent or burn, all ye heathens!" has been quite entertaining. But, stop. That's it. Just stop. It's useless. It's annoying. If the President does anything to piss you off that much, arrange a peaceful gathering to protest whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want. Write to your Representative and your Senator about it. Work to vote down everything the man tries to do. It'll be more fulfilling, more productive, and more respectable than crying yourself to sleep every night over something you very much have control of. Seriously people, it's not cute anymore. Quit your bitching and do something about it.

That's it. I'm fed up. You all have seen my posts, you know I'm typically very gracious and try to only discuss positions and issues, but I'm just tired of having my intellect and personality come into question based on how I vote. I'm tired of all this useless complaining. If you want to discuss issues and our positions on them, great. If you want to discuss possible solutions for problems, even better. If all you have to say is "Anyone who voted for Bush is a moron." or "That's it, I'm moving to Canada.", don't. Unless you want help packing your bags, in which case just ask and I'll see what I can do.

If you aren't one of the people that the above rant refers to, I'm sorry for wasting your time.

Just one (angry) man's opinion. Do what you will with it.

~ Lost In The 'Verse

"About a year before we met, I spent 6 months on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!"

Since you support whats going on so much why don't you stop your complaining and join up to fight in Iraq!!

I think every Bush supporter should really show their support and join the Miltary that way the rest of us who don't won't have to worry about a draft!!

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:17 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I 100% agree. First off, I haven't actually heard of anyone who really left for Canada. It's all just talk. Second, how would that solve a darn thing? It would just mean that next election your voice won't be heard cause you won't be voting. Running away from a problem is hardly a solution. The world isn't coming to an end. I promise.

You still have your freedom of speech. This is just a plee to use it constructively rather than just to annoy everyone. Go out and try to fix the problems if you believe in what you say.

I honestly don't think our vote counts at least not as long as they are using those debolt computer machines...

I'm pretty sure this election was stolen sad thing is it can't be proven because those computers don't leave a paper trail how convient

also I don't plan on going to Canada unless I absolutely feel I don't have anyother choice, I would just like to keep my options open

America is on its way to being a Facist nation under this administration...

I want to be like the smart jews in Germany who saw what was happening and got out ..

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:24 PM

Words that scare the majority of sheep er ... populace - "VIVE LA REVOLUTION!!!"

{*pray ignore my inability to spell in French.}

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:37 PM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I'm not sure I get your point? What's the irony? When someone says the fact that no WMD were found proves that Saddam had them... how does one proceed?

Wow after putting both quotes right next to each other you still couldn't figure it out. It doesn't take much of a jump from there.

"There were NO WMDs in Iraq in 2003."
"Where's your proof."
"The lack of evidence that there were WMDs in Iraq in 2003!!"

And before you try, you can never prove something didn't exist.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
Since you support whats going on so much why don't you stop your complaining and join up to fight in Iraq!!

I think every Bush supporter should really show their support and join the Miltary that way the rest of us who don't won't have to worry about a draft!!

Yes, because that way, only Republicans die in battle while the wussy doves stay at home?

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:49 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yes, yes, I know... "Absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence." It was used quite a bit during the mad cow scare. And theoretically you can't prove the non-existance of something. But somewhere along the line you have to cut off insistence on mathematical certainty and go with the preponderance of evidence... especially if you're proposing to spend billions of dollars and thousands of lives to chase it.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:52 PM

Hullo, Capnrahn!

I didn't actually vote for anyone, I live in the UK - but I consider myself informed and read constantly, and have American friends (mainly Republicans, frustratingly).

Bush's measures that I have opposed:

Patriot act
Iraq war
Stance on gay unions
Stance on right to choose abortion
Monopolies
Kyoto agreement
Tax cuts
Heavy borrowing
Failure to implement peace process and censure Sharon
His stance on social security and free health care
Enviroment
'Jobs for the boys'
Squandering sympathy from other nations post 9/11 in diplomatic petulance
'Appropriate interrogation techniques'
Legal limbo in Guantanamo bay
Lack of planning for occupation of Iraq
Neocon presence in cabinet - Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz who were thoroughly discredited within the CIA during the Cold War for their hyping of threats
Cynical rigging of supreme court
Use of fear to win votes

Possibly a few more.

Approve:

Tough stance on Zimbabwe over Mugabe's rigging
Generally adept stance currently as to North Korea and Africa diplomatically
Effective campaign in Afghanistan, considering the terrain and character

There you go. I am dead against Bush. I have reset my anger factor and am hearby judging him afresh from this election. So my head does not explode from 'Argh!'

And yes, I think the US is mired in one of its darkest days. But if you're sticking to the tools of democracy you have no option but to RAGE in quiet determination until the people are convinced. And if that fails. And the USA no longer speaks for you states and her people.

Break off and form a new nation - peacefully if at all possible (ha! the way the world is going...). I'm deadly serious. But democracy deserves every tool. You're fighting television and radio and an arrogant government and a point of view you cannot reconcile with... you have to give it total conviction with a strong, strong leader who is proud of his liberal values. A kick-ass liberal.

I'm veering dangerously towards political polemic here again, and I recognise you feel things are hopeless. Try again, with everything you have, I beg you. You owe your cause, that. If it fails again and again over the coming decade, then take your rightful portion of the media by force.

If it still fails then the US is lost to a one-party system, and it is the weakness and fear of the people to blame - and you will have to seccede.

Cheers, and you have my sympathies, but anger and jibes directed at Republican voters will never work. You have to be cool-headed and cut them out with logic and passion from creditable sources.

The above are in my belief apocalyptic scenarios, but appropriate responses. I much doubt that it will get THAT bad. But you have to fight, and *ugh* win the hearts and minds of those blinded by religion and party-fervour.

In sympathy,

Pete

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:58 PM

"All they do is follow you around for a couple of days. And when they find your life is as boring as sh*t and you aren't a threat- they stop!" - SignyM

You fool! Why didn't you put Firefly on TV in constant rotation while you were under surveilance? Or walk up to your garbage bin very suspiciously, place a white box BEHIND it, glance around in a dodgy manner and creep back inside?

Only for the FBI men to snatch it, run back to HQ, and to find what?

A shiny Firefly DVD box set of course!

Never pass up an opportunity for conversion, matey!

Pete

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 1:11 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

OH DAMN!!! You're right Pete, I missed a shiny opportunity! Can you see them now- inspecting the DVD backwards and forwards, looking for the hidden message?

What was I thinking?????

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 1:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:

Quote:
Originally posted by TheGreyJedi:
Well, here it is, in all it's evil, money-grubbing. hand-wringing, back door dealing, hate everyone but white conservative men glory. So bring it on, ya commie pinko leftist hippy fag.

AWESOME ROFLMFAO!!!!

Obviously folks don't have a sense fo your humor GreyJedi.

PS: This election made me so much money just in Kleenex Stock!!! HOOHAH.. Thank You Dems! I shal drink a Black and Tan in your honor.

Hullo, Connorflynn.

I have a sense of humour. I have one of the darkest senses of humour around. I watch and ENJOY Chris Morris for God's sake, and he is utterly twisted. The only comedian who can make jokes out of child murder and make a point.

But the trouble is, both your's and Greyjedi's comments don't come across as harmless jokes. They come across as something I cannot abide: Gloating. And lack of respect.

I'm proud to call myself a liberal. My grandmother was a conservative, my grandad was a communist (until invasion of Poland and it all sounds unlikely, but, y'know, only in Britain) and I've inherited beliefs from both. Calling me a fag, or a pinko (what the hell is a pinko anyway, it's catchy, but what is it?) or a hippy, or a commie is automatically voiding my arguements and beliefs solely because you view them as leftist.

Sometimes left wing ideas work. Sometimes right wing ideas work. I hate and despise doubletalk. Read 1984?

"Hate Goldstein! Love Big Brother!" and the two minutes hate?

That's short hand for "Hate liberals, love Republicans!" Or vice versa.

I'm going to keep on being reasonable about this, until I have to march over there and force feed you my bloody fist until you all get THIS: to write shorthand in politics is to polarise - to polarise is to hate - to hate is to take sides - once the media have taken one side there is one voice and one party system.

TO IGNORE THE VOICES OF OTHERS IS TO HAVE A ONE PARTY MIND.

And that state of being fills me with contempt.

Chat away, I shall amuse myself with these pornagraphic playing cards.

Pete

(Vote for Quimby. If you mayor he'd vote for you.)

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 1:20 PM

TheGreyJedi: BTW - Yer a nearsighted, smeg swilling, yak piss drinkin'. rabid fornicator of household appliances, scabby bald Lemur.

I wave my privates at yer aunties!

apologies to - the nearsighted, swillers of smeg, yak brew imbibers, Menage'a'appliance enthusiasts, Lemurs with excessive skin conditions and Aunts who have been traumatized by flashers. OH yes, and to Monty Python - for lifting a line!

from that 'special hell'

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 1:27 PM