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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
How You Could Have Had My Vote
Sunday, November 7, 2004 10:07 AM
JASONZZZ
Quote: How You Could Have Had My Vote It's been two days since John Kerry conceded, and all I am seeing, hearing and reading from the Democratic party is that you guys think you lost on "moral values." You seem to think this means nothing more than opposition to gay marriage. You seem to think that Bush voters waited in line for hours to stick it to the queers, to tell those faggots how much we hate them! Nothing could be further from the truth. Many Bush voters, like myself, were not happy to be voting for the President's re-election. Many Bush voters agonized over our decision and cast our vote in fear, trepidation, and trembling. Many of us would have given our left arms for a Democrat we could have supported. Because I am too young to be as disillusioned as I am, and because I know that one-party rule is not good for my country, and because it is my deepest wish to see the Democratic party change into one I can give my whole-hearted support, I am going to explain why you didn't get my vote, and how you can get it in the future. First, for context, let me give you a bit about my perspective: I am a single, heterosexual, college-educated woman in my late 20's with an annual income of about $30,000. I live in a solidly red state in the South, the region you guys wrote off entirely without even trying to persuade us to vote for you. I am not an ideologue, and I experience painful ambivalence about many political issues. The notion of an abortion makes me queasy, but I don't want Roe vs. Wade overturned. I have friends who've been impregnated by rape and friends who found out late in their third trimesters that they were carrying babies too malformed to ever have normal lives. The pictures of Iraqi children who've lost arms from the bombs my tax dollars bought make me shed tears, but I recognize that the war was the right thing to do, given the information we had available at the time the decision was made. I had no health insurance for three years, but I'm still, hesitantly, not in favor of socialized medicine. I know people who abuse the social services, but I also have friends who would be dead without the food stamps and SSI checks they collect each month. I believe in God and consider myself a Christian, but I don't go to church, and Falwell, Robertson, and their ilk scare me more than they scare you. I believe that in a perfect world, Roy Moore would have to live with the stench of his own ego, just like the rest of us do. I have gay friends who are closeted and gay friends who couldn't be more open if they had QUEER tattooed across their foreheads, and I think they should be allowed to get married if they want to. I read The Onion, Dilbert, Dan Savage's sex advice, Salon.com, and quite a few blogs. The local librarians know me on sight. I waited in line until midnight when the fifth Harry Potter book came out. I can't wait to see the new Chucky movie. I will probably shack up before I get married, but I won't be proud of it. I wouldn't buy an SUV, even if I could pay cash for one. I recycle. I shop at Wal-mart, but I feel guilty about it, and if they unionized, I would never cross the picket line. I think FOX News is about as fair and balanced as a seesaw with a gorilla on one end. President Bush's close relationships to people like John Ashcroft scare me. I hate the PATRIOT Act and am fearful of what might be part of PATRIOT II. The two dumbest trial balloons I've heard floated for his second-term agenda are privatizing Social Security and abolishing the income tax. When he says that God chose him to be President during this time of trial, I am embarrassed. I roll my eyes. I am a pragmatic, disillusioned, realistic, and entirely ordinary member of the radical middle. Here is why you didn't get my vote: 1. You didn't give me clear positions on the issues. I followed the news closely all through the campaign, but I still don't understand Kerry's position on Iraq. I know he voted for the IWR, but then he voted against the $87 billion. To you, that seemed to be a symbolic stand against Saddam Hussein (the IWR) but also a principled stand against a President who was out of control (against the $87 billion). To me, that was just confusing. He said he would have done everything different, but he also said that, knowing what he knew today (the day he was asked) he still would have cast the same vote. He said that he would bring allies to our side to share the burden, but he also said he would be sending 40,000 more of our troops. He said that we must finish the job, but he also said it was the wrong war at the wrong place and the wrong time. Huh? 2. You didn't convince me that you would defend America against the threats of terrorism. Kerry seemed to think that terrorism is like any other crime. You catch the people responsible and put them in jail, and that's that. After seeing the destruction – physical, financial, psychological, and emotional -- wrought by the September 11th attacks, I do not understand how he could believe this. The hijackers lived among us, ate at our restaurants, shopped in our malls, and wounded us worse than we have ever been wounded before. How Kerry saw this as a crime, and not as a paradigm-shifting event that deserved a military response, both in direct retaliation and to keep it from ever happening again by going on the offensive, is something I don't understand. 3. You insulted my intelligence by the constant mantra of Kerry's service in Vietnam. Most of the men I know who are older than 50 served in some way, either in country or in the Coast Guard or other non-combat roles. I don't see the relevance, and the drumbeat of "three purple hearts" struck me as manipulation. It was as if you were saying, "These dumbshit hawks want war? We'll give 'em a real war hero! That'll get their votes!" 4. Your constant references to the opinions of the rest of the world scared me, and I'm not talking about the "global test" comment. I don't care what Europeans think about me or my country. I learned in high school that living my life with one eye on the opinions of everyone else leads only to unnecessary turmoil and pointless pain. Why didn't you? 5. You disturbed me with your demonization of the rich. Rich people were talked about in this campaign as though they were all evil cheaters who had wage slaves tied up in the basement to be flogged for minimum wage, and what they didn't earn from the wage slaves' labor, they stole from nursing home residents. I am not rich, but I work hard, am learning about investing money, am continuing to improve my prospects for earning more money in the future, and fully expect to end up at least well-off someday. If I do, it will be because of my efforts and work, not because of winning "life's lottery." I know two millionaires personally. Both are entrepreneurs who took big risks and worked their backsides off for years to get where they are. Given that Kerry is married to a billionaire, this seemed especially hypocritical. 6. Here is something you could work on right about now: I could not stomach to listen to your incessant hatred of President Bush. Bush is stupid, Bush is an idiot, Bush is Hitler, Bush is a Nazi, Bush masturbates to photos of dead Iraqi babies, I'd vote for my dog before I'd vote for Bush, I'd vote for Castro before I'd vote for Bush, the Rethuglicans are fascists, Bush voters are treasonous, Bush should be impeached, blah blah blah blah blah blah. It was old three months after Bush's inauguration, and it's now just tiresome. I don't hate my President, even though I voted for him with more reluctance than I can express and a queasy feeling in my stomach. Language like this makes you seem immature, needlessly vulgar, and obnoxious. 7. Lastly, and I hope this doesn't hurt anyone feelings, because my objective is to make you think, not emote: I don't think you really want my vote. I actively sought out your perspective. I tuned in regularly, for months, to your biggest media project, your serious effort to get your message out: Air America Radio. I listened all day on Good Friday as host after host mocked people like me for believing in Jesus's life, death, and resurrection. I listened as Janeane Garofalo, who was one of my favorite comedians for years, expressed hatred and disgust for Bush voters so vile that I ended my live stream feeling assaulted, as if I'd been vomited on. I listened the night that Mike Malloy told a young Republican to hang up the phone and go open a vein. I listened to pure, unadulterated venom that was so intense I sometimes cut the stream and cried. Tonight, your spokespeople on AAR have been calling people like me "snake-handling evangelicals," and that was about the kindest thing I heard. Um…y'all? I've lived in the South my entire life and have never met a single snake-handler. Your attitudes, language, and behavior toward people like me: reasonable, thinking Christians who are quite moderate politically and who are just as well-informed as you are (yes, I've read all the PNAC essays, too, and yes, they scare me, too) is reminiscent of nothing so much as an abusive ex-lover, a crazy and drunken stalker. "I'll make you love me, or you'll regret it, you worthless bitch! Come here and let me beat you over the head and tell you how stupid and worthless you are! Then you'll see it my way!" I tried so hard to give you guys a chance. I'm young, I'm not extremely religious, and I'm supportive of liberal ideals like fighting for higher wages, stopping outsourcing of jobs, and standing up for the little guy. I wanted to vote Democratic this time, more than I can possibly put into words. You just didn't give me the option. President Bush won on values, yes, but not hatred of gays or any other stereotype you have in your head about Bush voters like me. He won because he has values, clearly defined values, and even though I agree with little of what he believes, at least I know what he believes. At least I know that he really does believe in something. At least I know that he will do what he says he will do. That's disgustingly little, but unbelievably – you offered me less. So, if you want my vote next time, and the vote of all my close friends, and the millions more like us that you refuse to believe exists, it's pretty simple: take positions and don't waffle on them. Stand up for America, especially with regard to terrorism. Shut up about what Germany and France think. Stop pretending that the only way to become wealthy in America is to cheat, for the sake of those of us who still want to get there. Treat the President with at least as much civility, if not respect, as you would've wanted right-wingers to give a President Kerry. Most importantly, please, please please, please, please, please stop abusing me. No more verbal and psychological and emotional savagery. Treat me like a voter whose vote you would actually appreciate getting, and you will get it. Do you maybe, just maybe, see where I'm coming from? I doubt it. But I had to try. Sincerely, A Very Sad American
Sunday, November 7, 2004 11:51 AM
DANFAN
Sunday, November 7, 2004 2:31 PM
GINOBIFFARONI
Sunday, November 7, 2004 2:39 PM
VETERAN
Don't squat with your spurs on.
Sunday, November 7, 2004 3:37 PM
KIRIKOLI
Sunday, November 7, 2004 4:59 PM
HERO
Quote:Originally posted by Kirikoli: By segregating the world, you encourage hatred. By saying 'Forget France, forget Germany' you effectively say 'We don't see you as people we need to consider when we take action'
Monday, November 8, 2004 2:59 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by Veteran: Wow a college student in the south making $30,000 a year. I guess it's possible, but I gather she's not a full time student. Actually, makes me believe it's not really a college student, which makes me think this whole letter is just a fraud.
Quote: Your attitudes, language, and behavior toward people like me...is reminiscent of nothing so much as an abusive ex-lover, a crazy and drunken stalker. "I'll make you love me, or you'll regret it, you worthless bitch! Come here and let me beat you over the head and tell you how stupid and worthless you are! Then you'll see it my way!"
Monday, November 8, 2004 4:58 AM
BARNSTORMER
Monday, November 8, 2004 6:07 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: Oh, I see the French are fighting a "wrong war" of their own in the Ivory Coast. I'm sure that if they find the Ivorians (real term, I looked it up) too much to handle, all they have to do is ask for some help...after all thats what "allies" are for. H
Monday, November 8, 2004 6:44 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: We could set up a "Cocoa for Food" program adminstered by the UN, I'm sure they'd be willing. Go Ivory Coast. This Browncoats pulling for you. H
Monday, November 8, 2004 9:02 AM
PIRATEJENNY
Monday, November 8, 2004 9:39 AM
Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: This person has it wrong
Quote: and as for the so called morals and values people who voted for him..well..most of them are bigots who use their so called religion and preaching as a sheild..how do we know they are bigots.. once again because we have eyes to see..they support an administratin lacking in values and morals the real morals and values people are us Dem/Libs/ Progressives
Monday, November 8, 2004 10:09 AM
MANIACNUMBERONE
Monday, November 8, 2004 12:27 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: This person has it wrong That may be. I saw several good points in the letter. But if you're correct, how do you convince this kind of person, who might have voted Kerry? By insults like this? Quote: and as for the so called morals and values people who voted for him..well..most of them are bigots who use their so called religion and preaching as a sheild..how do we know they are bigots.. once again because we have eyes to see..they support an administratin lacking in values and morals the real morals and values people are us Dem/Libs/ Progressives Yeah. "I hate your guts, you bigot! Now vote for my candidate, fool!" Works every time. Quit talking politics and see the message here. If you insult people instead of educating them on your views, you may feel morally superior, but you'll continue to lose at the polls. I probably agree with the liberal side of most issues, but since posting a while back that I wasn't convinced Bush "Lied" about WMD (not that there are any, just that he might have been fooled like everyone else), I haven't been able to discuss anything without being branded a neo-con, or a paid propagandist for the right. Nobody much cares how I feel about taxes, or same-sex marriage, or anything else. I didn't follow the orthodoxy 100%, and so was branded a heretic. This bothered me so much I went Libertarian, rather than vote for a party that contained such fanatics. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Monday, November 8, 2004 2:02 PM
Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, as far as I'm concerned its their lost
Monday, November 8, 2004 4:51 PM
LEXIBLOCK
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: I didn't even vote for Bush, but I was so turned off by the ceaseless hatred coming from the Democratic side that I couldn't vote Kerry either. It may not have been from his campaign, but the Dems I saw here and on other boards were so hateful and smugly eliteist that I couldn't stand it. You guys gotta learn that calling people stupid isn't the way to get them to support your candidate.
Monday, November 8, 2004 5:59 PM
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 7:24 AM
Quote:Originally posted by LexiBlock: The attitude was borne out of fear; he kept lying and nobody cared. He kept increasing world tension and nobody cared. His actions create new terrorists and nobody cared. In the end those who paid attention felt they had to scream. What a pity they forgot... nobody cares.
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 7:46 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, as far as I'm concerned its their lost But it's your loss. You lost the election because you couldn't convince enough folks to vote for Kerry. Now you have to deal with Bush for another four years. If you alienate the middle-of-the-roaders by your stridency, instead of calmly trying to sell them on your point of view, you'll lose again in 2008. There are a lot of folks out there like the letter writer. You (the Democrats/liberals/progressives) need to turn them from the "dark side", not insult them until they won't listen no matter what you say. You can learn from your mistakes or you can repeat them. The choice is up to you. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 9:19 AM
Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: No the days of trying to talk to Rep's / Conservatives and reason with them are over its sink or swim !!
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 12:37 PM
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 5:04 PM
WILDBILL
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 5:58 PM
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 6:31 PM
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:10 AM
Quote:Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne: I got a question. Now that we American's have abandoned the ole separation of church and state... what is the next move to make the American people forget about that supposed separation?
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 3:11 AM
Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: No its too late for that Dem/Progressives have talked to Reps until they were blue in the face all to be called paranoid or crazy.. its too late..so now we're all going to have to swallow a bitter pill and hope that it doesn't kill us.
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:10 PM
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:55 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: No its too late for that Dem/Progressives have talked to Reps until they were blue in the face all to be called paranoid or crazy.. its too late..so now we're all going to have to swallow a bitter pill and hope that it doesn't kill us. Okay. You have almost four years to convince just 5% of the voters in a few swing states that they need to vote for the Democrat in the 2008 election, and you could win. But you'd rather bitch and moan and make excuses. "Oh, they're all fundamentalist bigots.", "Oh, Diebold fixed the election.", "Oh, everyone who doesn't agree with us is just evil.", and on and on. If you can't get over your self-pity and do something constructive, you deserve what you get. Enjoy it. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Friday, November 12, 2004 4:19 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Quote:Can someone help me out? I can't seem to find "Seperation of Church and State" in the First Amendment. Not even one of the three words "separation", "church", or "state". It must be in there - all my unionized, public school teachers told me so.
Friday, November 12, 2004 4:33 PM
Friday, November 12, 2004 5:40 PM
RUE
I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!
Friday, November 12, 2004 6:08 PM
Friday, November 12, 2004 6:43 PM
Friday, November 12, 2004 7:26 PM
Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:08 AM
Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:42 AM
Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:26 AM
Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:54 AM
Quote:Now grant me please, for the sake of argument, that everyone in the country is not either an evil, warmongering, bigoted, moneygrubbing Republican, or a peaceloving, inclusive, socially-conscious Democrat. There are a number of folk out there who wander around somewhere between these extremes.
Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:24 PM
Sunday, November 14, 2004 6:46 AM
Monday, November 15, 2004 2:44 AM
Monday, November 15, 2004 4:11 AM
HKCAVALIER
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: And I'm not even trying to be inflamatory at all. I'm just curious to know if you have any ideas for winning the 2008 election other than hoping things get so bad that many of the people who voted for Bush will turn on him and vote Democrat. That seems to be the only strategy I've seen so far from the liberal/progressive side here. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Monday, November 15, 2004 6:07 AM
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 5:26 PM
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