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Originally posted by G:

OMG - we're approaching Hunger Games fake-iness. Live car crash involving a dumpster fire.

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by SOCKPUPPET:

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Originally posted by G:

OMG - we're approaching Hunger Games fake-iness. Live car crash involving a dumpster fire.

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If Hillary is Coin, and Trump is Snow, than Maddow still ain't no Mockingjay

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I was thinking more Effie Trinket and Ceasar Flickerman fake.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
HEY JO! I didn't want to have this discussion get lost in the shuffle! Right now this is one of the few intelligent ones going.

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By topic:

THE TPP/TTIP...
A nation relinquishing control over its internal policies (where they conflict with "usual and expected profits" ... which is pretty much everywhere) to a private tribunal of transnational corporations. That's a one-way step. Now, what kind of leader (President or Prime Minister) would sign such a deal except a traitor? This is so much bigger than Trump versus Hillary. The transnationals will, for sure, attempt to negotiate something similar in the future, whether in a series of "bilateral" deals (a la Trump) or as part of a whole new multi-party package. All new trade deals need to be examined closely, no matter who is President.

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The simpl way iz to require all payroll recordz to be submitted along with their inkum tax filingz. Naturally, if they are dealing with forin vendorz, it gets much more complicated.- JO

Actually, it gets impossible. The vendors in this market (Walmart, The Gap, etc) simply "subcontract" to another company in another nation, and let THEM do the exploiting. It's called "the gig economy", haven't you heard? Everyone is paid piecework.- SIGNY

Ye, I no how it wrks. But not every company or even every industry iz able to do that and thoze that can cant do it 100%. So, wen Jimmy Lee in Shen Qua iz making 10x wut hiz nayborz are, it starts to spred. Pretty soon, even the novelty fake dog doo factory haz to start paying more to keep employeez.- JO

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JO .... WHO has killed more people and destroyed more nations in the past 20 years or so? Us? Or Russia? - SIGNY

US. And yet we are still sumhow the good guyz! - JO

Good lord, how is that? Because our intentions are pure?- SIGNY

Sumthing to do with the US being a nation uv lawz (more or less) rather than a jiant corrupt cleptocrasy like Russia, China, India, Pakistan. - JO

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Why is it in OUR interests to keep sway over an entire planet? What do YOU get out of it?- SIGNY

Good Q. The biggest paje on my site will probably end up being the ENVIRONMENT paje. Part uv it will go into that.

The short ansr iz individual power.- JO

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Due to the great amount uv power, especially the power to destroy, available to each uv us AND to groups uv any size, the survival uv the planet iz dependent on having sum sort uv indesputable unchallenjable Cop keeping a watch on thingz. The big dog on the block haz to be a good guy.- JO

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The immigration system iz krap. Total krap. The GoPs blocked Obama frum fixing it and you want to blame Hillary? - JO
What was Obama's "fix"? Let everyone in? Legalize everyone?- SIGNY
Hard to say sins the GoPs blocked it!!! I suppoze its available sumwhere anyway.- JO

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Trump is being just like I said he would be: A LOOSE CANNON. Well, we need a loose cannon. - SIGNY

Az per abuv about power - no we do not.- JO

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What's your goal here, JO? What are you aiming at? - SIGNY
Same az alwayz. Increase averaj intellijens, wizdom and empathy. Redoos evil. Contain and incapasitate the bad guyz.- JO

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Actually, it gets impossible. The vendors in this market (Walmart, The Gap, etc) simply "subcontract" to another company in another nation, and let THEM do the exploiting. It's called "the gig economy", haven't you heard? Everyone is paid piecework.- SIGNY

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Hey, I work in a regulatory agency, and we demand a lot of paperwork, and yet all of that paperwork has not prevented some terrible environmental crimes. So you need actual inspectors ... people going to the shops and homes to examine their standard of living etc to make sure that the paperwork is correct. And then, assuming you find a violation, you still need to have a hearing ... at which point the vendor will devolve responsibility to those below* ... and then assign a penalty. What's the penalty?

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the problem of "shared responsibility" where each party is guilty only of a small part of evil-doing. It makes participation much easier on the conscience of the individuals and much harder to prove guilt.

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Peepl hav forgotten that America started with ideaz. The founderz had experiens with how thingz can go rong and came up with ideaz to hopefully prevent the same failurez.

Now we hav experiens with how thingz can go rong with their creation.

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Actually, it gets impossible. The vendors in this market (Walmart, The Gap, etc) simply "subcontract" to another company in another nation, and let THEM do the exploiting. It's called "the gig economy", haven't you heard? Everyone is paid piecework.- SIGNY

Thats been going on forever. I worked with a guy who had worked at a tool forj - hammerz, renchez, plierz, etc. All piece work. Then they got a raw deal contract from Searz to make Craftsman stuff and went bankrupt and bought by a crony uv a Searz exec. That wuz SOP.- JO

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Hey, I work in a regulatory agency, and we demand a lot of paperwork, and yet all of that paperwork has not prevented some terrible environmental crimes. So you need actual inspectors ... people going to the shops and homes to examine their standard of living etc to make sure that the paperwork is correct. And then, assuming you find a violation, you still need to have a hearing ... at which point the vendor will devolve responsibility to those below* ... and then assign a penalty. What's the penalty?- SIGNY

Wut ajensy? -JO

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the problem of "shared responsibility" where each party is guilty only of a small part of evil-doing. It makes participation much easier on the conscience of the individuals and much harder to prove guilt.- SIGNY

A fundamental polisy stratejy iz to link the cost uv any problemz directly to thoze profiting. Whoever iz making money on sumthing gets to pay their share uv cleaning up messez, paying medical billz for workerz who get sick or injured.

So, lets say a Chineze subcontractor haz been dumping uzed solvent in a river. If anybody findz out EVER, the American company gets to pay to clean it up, plus wutever damaj it haz cauzed. They woud be open to lawsuits frum canser victimz or their surviving family. The damaj to the ecosystem woud be assessed a $ value. No time limit. No bankruptsy protection.

If the company goez out uv biz befor the crime gets discovered, the executivez who were in charj wenever it happened get to pay. Anybody who knew and didnt tell, anybody who tried to cover it up. Even workerz who were just following orderz.

A CEO woud haf to be seriously stoopid to think saving 100$ per barrel iz worth skipping proper disposal/recovery if it coud come back and bite him in the ass in 5, 10, 20, 50 yirz.

A smart CEO woud hire inspectorz to monitor subcontractorz and offer substantial rewardz for wisl blowerz.

If anybody complainz that they cant get their stuff made cheap enuf bekuz uv this, thats just too bad, kuz nobody can. Thered be no selling non-compliant products in this country. The prise uv the products goez up to wut it really costs! - JO

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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Something for you to read sockpuppet/dreamtrove

Social Murder

corporate power is one of the strongest forces shaping our world. More than half of the top 100 economic entities today are private corporations. With their immense size comes commensurate influence, to the point where corporations are able to wreak social and environmental destruction with few serious consequences. Yet, amazingly, this subject is essentially absent from the study of economics.

http://arpbooks.org/books/detail/social-murder/

It's amazing you posted what you did without acknowledging the cuts to the EPA past and present. Cuts done at the behest of corporations. Too many here continually post without regard for the facts.

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That's more the spirit!

And something for you to read, Si Shen:

https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/

Here's another. If you want to understand liberal economic theory, I recommend GK Chesterton, Hillaire Belloc and FA Hayek. Belloc's Servile State is a good place to start. Basically starting in 1912 he forecasts the 20th century economics from the point of view of what will happen when the govt. gets involved.


ps. yes, i'm familiar with the EPA. My uncle works there. Has for many years. It's a captured agency. Meaning it's run by the oil companies. Corporations aren't perfect, sure. However, I can start one tomorrow. Watch what happens if you try to go out and start a government.

Govts. are mutli-trillion dollar entities, which got their money through violence. A corporation doesn't have any money we didn't willing give it, unless a govt. did. At that point, is it really a corporation and a govt, or has the merged entity become something else?

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So being a nation of laws instead of a "giant kleptocracy" explains why we have been destroying and exploiting nations for years and why the system that WE stand behind- the IMF, the World Bank, and Free Enterprise has created a situation where 8 people own more than the bottom 50% of the world, and we have the largest wealth gap .... ever? Oh, you mean THAT "nation of laws"??? Hmmm.... maybe there's something wrong with our laws, then, because they don't seem to be preventing kleptocracy very well.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You have some misconceptions about the world which a little internet-searching would easily dispel...The richest Russian man - according to Wikipedia - is Vladimir Potanin, NOT Vladimir Putin.

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Next to impossible to pin down a number, but 'the peepl in the no' will immediately name Putin if asked hooz the richest. - JO

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

1) what are you going to do about global warming,

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2) what are you going to do about the total (public and private) US debt?

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Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
You can keep posting Rachel J0, but know that nobody is actually watching any of the videos.

Got that same video info from anybody else?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I thought you said you were all about being intelligent and using your imagination, and yet here you are, relying on proven liars for your info?

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Originally posted by JO753:

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Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
You can keep posting Rachel J0, but know that nobody is actually watching any of the videos.

Got that same video info from anybody else?

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Sorry, no. She'z leading on this. You can get the basic info elsewhere, usually (unless its behind a pay wall), but you'd spend much more time than it takes her to repeat everything a dozen timez. Her team iz doing ALOT uv prep and assembly, so its worth your time.

You develop a tolerans for her eventually. The great thing about watching her show online iz that its about 50% shorter without the commercialz!

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Next to impossible to pin down a number, but 'the peepl in the no' will immediately name Putin if asked hooz the richest. - JO

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Originally posted by JO753:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I thought you said you were all about being intelligent and using your imagination, and yet here you are, relying on proven liars for your info?

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Unless you hav a crystal ball or GODz fone number, you are in the same boat az me - you get all your info from soursez that are not 100% onest andor correct.

The best any uv us can do (aside from being an insider on a story) iz to juj stuff on its internal lojik, then its relation to known facts, the motivz uv the subjects and soursez, and track record uv accurasy uv the soursez we hav.

A good stratejy that haz been lost by the entire rite wing iz to dump a sours after a fairly low number (rate) uv failurez. This iz how Fox and its ilk hav bekum so seksesful.

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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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When you ignore the importance of consumers in the equation you (and poor, sad! broken Kiki) only show your ignorance.-

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Yes! And? Keep thinking... try closing the circle... you can do it. It might help if you think of yourself as Walmart.
Hint: it's not "despite" it's "because."

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The problem is, it is in EVERY business-owner's interest to evade and avoid the regulations that you suggest, from Walmart down to the shrimp-farmer on his small paddy.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:But JO, you're relying on "people in the know" ... which are WHO, exactly?

Our spooks? Our politicians? Our mainstream media? ... NONE of whom have a history of telling the truth? And all of whom seem to have in interest in demonizing Russia, Putin, and Trump?

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On what evidence do they base this allegation?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In the meantime, back to your platform!

...But it seems to me that the only thing that would do is encourage companies to sub-contract even further, to split production into finer and finer layers to where responsibility is impossible to assign.

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...Even then, I can imagine them creating a legal fiction: separate companies between one operation and the other even while on the same campus or in the same building.

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And the fact that there would only be a limited number of jobs under our purview might create a rush (in China for example) to fill those positions, but would not spread to other industries because those conditions would not exist for the vast majority of manufacturers.

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...You need a system that is self-sustaining. The level of investigation required to make it work, and be resistant to bribes, incompetence, lack of insight etc. by the investigators would be unsupportable.

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my experience with Chinese-made scientific instruments is that their quality control sucks.

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Originally posted by G:
When you ignore the importance of consumers in the equation you (and poor, sad! broken Kiki) only show your ignorance.

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Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Good idea J0. My only suggestion is when you're using the whole "everyone is Putin's color" on the chess board, you really should find a way to work race into the joke too. Probably something about how there are no black people or Muslims in Moscow. Seems a shame to waste such an obvious opportunity...

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Therez a serious danjer here.

Wen The Donald fantasy bubble gets popped, how are theze rabid idiots going to react?

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The last big fantasy bubble pop wuz real estate/Wall Street. Rekt the world economy. Left us teetering on the ej uv the biggest depression in American history.

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With sumwhere between 1/3 & 1/2 the country living in the Trump liberal alternate reality there are going to be riots, roving bandz uv armed vandalz, assassinationz, etc. everywhere.

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It wont matter how complete and damming pathetic and pointless the case agenst him iz or how well poorly prezented. Even if Fox newz and all the other GoP CNN and NYT and Rachel Madcow propaganda outlets tell the truth for a chanje, theze [liberal] wakkoz will be on fire stay propagandized

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