we're like, really smart by 1kiki

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

we're like, really smart

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Friday, March 24, 2017 23:46
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Sunday, March 19, 2017 1:46 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2017/03/australians-investigat
ing-great-barrier-reef-bleaching-second-straight-year

The map above, based on data from NOAA’s Coral Reef Watch, shows areas with varying levels of heat stress. The amount of heat stress is an indicator of bleaching and its potential intensity. Photo: NASA

http://www.biosciencetechnology.com/news/2017/03/scientists-race-preve
nt-wipeout-worlds-coral-reefs
Even if the world could halt global warming now, scientists still expect that more than 90 percent of corals will die by 2050. Without drastic intervention, we risk losing them all.

http://www.rdmag.com/news/2017/03/stanford-biologists-identify-ancient
-stress-response-corals

http://www.rdmag.com/news/2017/03/ninety-percent-predatory-fish-gone-c
aribbean-coral-reefs-due-overfishing

http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2017/02/long-lasting-chemicals
-have-reached-deepest-trenches-oceans
In further proof of how long-lasting humankind’s effects on the environment are, one of the chemicals hasn’t been produced most anywhere since the 1970s

http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2016/09/first-evidence-deep-se
a-animals-ingesting-microplastics

http://www.rdmag.com/news/2016/12/newly-discovered-casper-octopod-risk
-deep-sea-mining

http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2016/11/plastic-smell-attracts
-hungry-seabirds

http://thescienceexplorer.com/humanity/hawking-pollution-and-stupidity
-are-biggest-threats-humanity

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 2:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

We are catastrophic for our own ecosphere, and therefore for our own survival.

It's head-bangingly frustrating.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Sunday, March 19, 2017 2:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

none of this is a problem

because we're like, really smart

Originally posted by G:
I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2017 8:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

This thread title is like the movie Naked Lunch.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2017 6:54 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
We are catastrophic for our own ecosphere, and therefore for our own survival.

It's head-bangingly frustrating.

And to make things worse some of us voted for Trump, pretty much guaranteeing that all of this will get worse, not better. How stupid can you get?

Oh well, at least he's friendly to Putin, and Russian imperialism <3 <3

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Evidence the Syrian regime sponsors ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521

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Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
And to make things worse some of us voted for Trump, pretty much guaranteeing that all of this will get worse, not better. How stupid can you get? KRAPO

As long as these decisions are being made through democratic means ... ie by the Parliament and Prime Minister, Congress and the President ... then mistakes can be corrected by national consensus.

BUT IF THESE DECISIONS ARE MADE BY PRIVATE TRADE TRIBUNALS ON THE BASIS OF USUAL AND EXPECTED PROFIT, THEN YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CHANGE THEM BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE ZERO INPUT AND NO VENUE.

Who the hell would vote for THAT????

Oh yeah, that's right- you would.

Well, I'm willing to "make things worse" temporarily to preserve our ability to "make things better" later, as opposed to promoting the One Ring which will be grabbed with (maybe) good intentions now only to irrevocably betray us all later.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Yeah, oops. I see your problem.- G

No, you don't.

I "get" that Trump is woefully misinformed about the environment, as are most Republicans today. However, WE can fight those decisions at the state level, or through civil or legal action, by persuading our Congresspeople on specific votes or by electing someone else later, or by electing a different President if we can persuade enough of our fellow citizens or the worthiness of our cause. In other words, through our democratic political process.

However, NONE OF THAT IS POSSIBLE if the decisions are being made by a secret trade tribunal, which could strike down ANY city, state, or Federal environmental laws because they interfere with "usual and expected profits". If that happens, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. I've repeated this point probably a couple-dozen times by now, and yet you still don't get it.

Yes, I understand that our democracy is flawed, and that decisions are often made to favor the wealthy and corporations. As a person who has worked in environmental regulation for years, I've seen the Policy Wars firsthand. But the answer to a flawed democracy is not "no democracy".

Yanno, THERE WILL BE A USA AFTER TRUMP. As long as we stay out of those binding "free trade" agreements, we can reverse our policy errors. So you better start making the Democratic Party relevant again by figuring out how it screwed up. HINT: You're not going to do that by throwing temper tantrums and dissing half of the USA citizens.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Wednesday, March 22, 2017 3:21 PM

6STRINGJOKER

I don't know about very smart people... I'm sure they all had smart phones though.

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Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

HA HA!!!

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/science/great-barrier-reef-coral-cl
imate-change-dieoff.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

The New York Times
Large Sections of Australia’s Great Reef Are Now Dead, Scientists Find

Severe bleaching last year on the northern Great Barrier Reef affected even the largest and oldest corals, like this slow-growing Porites colony. Credit Terry Hughes et al./Nature

Mature stands of clonal staghorn corals on Lizard Island in the Great Barrier Reef could be seen destroyed by heat stress on Feb. 26, 2016, at left, and colonized by algae just a few weeks later on April 19, at right. Credit Photographs by Terry Hughes et al./Nature

Note: Individual reefs within each region lost different amounts of coral. Numbers show the range of loss for the middle 50% of observations in each region.
Source: ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies

The shadow of an airplane fell on bleached coral in the northern Great Barrier Reef in March 2016. Credit James Kerry/ARC Center of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies

SYDNEY, Australia — The Great Barrier Reef in Australia has long been one of the world’s most magnificent natural wonders, so enormous it can be seen from space, so beautiful it can move visitors to tears.
But the reef, and the profusion of sea creatures living near it, are in profound trouble.
Huge sections of the Great Barrier Reef, stretching across hundreds of miles of its most pristine northern sector, were recently found to be dead, killed last year by overheated seawater. More southerly sections around the middle of the reef that barely escaped then are bleaching now, a potential precursor to another die-off that could rob some of the reef’s most visited areas of color and life.
“We didn’t expect to see this level of destruction to the Great Barrier Reef for another 30 years,” said Terry P. Hughes, director of a government-funded center for coral reef studies at James Cook University in Australia and the lead author of a paper on the reef that is being published Thursday as the cover article of the journal Nature. “In the north, I saw hundreds of reefs — literally two-thirds of the reefs were dying and are now dead.”
The damage to the Great Barrier Reef, one of the world’s largest living structures, is part of a global calamity that has been unfolding intermittently for nearly two decades and seems to be intensifying. In the paper, dozens of scientists described the recent disaster as the third worldwide mass bleaching of coral reefs since 1998, but by far the most widespread and damaging.
The state of coral reefs is a telling sign of the health of the seas. Their distress and death are yet another marker of the ravages of global climate change.
If most of the world’s coral reefs die, as scientists fear is increasingly likely, some of the richest and most colorful life in the ocean could be lost, along with huge sums from reef tourism. In poorer countries, lives are at stake: Hundreds of millions of people get their protein primarily from reef fish, and the loss of that food supply could become a humanitarian crisis.

With this latest global bleaching in its third year, reef scientists say they have no doubt as to the responsible party.
They warned decades ago that the coral reefs would be at risk if human society kept burning fossil fuels at a runaway pace, releasing greenhouse gases that warm the ocean. Emissions continued to rise, and now the background ocean temperature is high enough that any temporary spike poses a critical risk to reefs.
“Climate change is not a future threat,” Professor Hughes said. “On the Great Barrier Reef, it’s been happening for 18 years.”
Corals require warm water to thrive, but they are exquisitely sensitive to extra heat. Just two or three degrees Fahrenheit of excess warming can sometimes kill the tiny creatures.
Globally, the ocean has warmed by about 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit since the late 19th century, by a conservative calculation, and a bit more in the tropics, home to many reefs. An additional kick was supplied by an El Niño weather pattern that peaked in 2016 and temporarily warmed much of the surface of the planet, causing the hottest year in a historical record dating to 1880.
It was obvious last year that the corals on many reefs were likely to die, but now formal scientific assessments are coming in. The paper in Nature documents vast coral bleaching in 2016 along a 500-mile section of the reef north of Cairns, a city on Australia’s eastern coast.
Bleaching indicates that corals are under heat stress, but they do not always die and cooler water can help them recover. Subsequent surveys of the Great Barrier Reef, conducted late last year after the deadline for inclusion in the Nature paper, documented that extensive patches of reef had in fact died, and would not be likely to recover soon, if at all.
Professor Hughes led those surveys. He said that he and his students cried when he showed them maps of the damage, which he had calculated in part by flying low in small planes and helicopters.
His aerial surveys, combined with underwater measurements, found that 67 percent of the corals had died in a long stretch north of Port Douglas, and in patches, the mortality reached 83 percent.
By luck, a storm stirred the waters in the central and southern parts of the reef at a critical moment, cooling them, and mortality there was much lower — about 6 percent in a stretch off Townsville, and even lower in the southernmost part of the reef.
But an Australian government study released last week found that over all, last year brought “the highest sea surface temperatures across the Great Barrier Reef on record.”
Only 9 percent of the reef has avoided bleaching since 1998, Professor Hughes said, and now, the less remote, more heavily visited stretch from Cairns south is in trouble again. Water temperatures there remain so high that another round of mass bleaching is underway, the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority confirmed last week.
Professor Hughes said he hoped the die-off this time would not be as serious as last year’s, but “back-to-back bleaching is unheard-of in Australia.” The central and southern part of the reef had already been badly damaged by human activities like dredging and pollution.
The Australian government has tried to combat these local threats with its Reef 2050 plan, restricting port development, dredging and agricultural runoff, among other risks. But Professor Hughes’s research found that, given the high temperatures, these national efforts to improve water quality were not enough.

“The reefs in muddy water were just as fried as those in pristine water,” Professor Hughes said. “That’s not good news in terms of what you can do locally to prevent bleaching — the answer to that is not very much at all. You have to address climate change directly.”
With the election of Donald J. Trump as the American president, a recent global deal to tackle the problem, known as the Paris Agreement, seems to be in peril. Australia’s conservative government also continues to support fossil fuel development, including what many scientists and conservationists see as the reef’s most immediate threat — a proposed coal mine, expected to be among the world’s largest, to be built inland from the reef by the Adani Group, a conglomerate based in India.
“The fact is, Australia is the largest coal exporter in the world, and the last thing we should be doing to our greatest national asset is making the situation worse,” said Imogen Zethoven, campaign director for the Australian Marine Conservation Society.
Australia relies on the Great Barrier Reef for about 70,000 jobs and billions of dollars annually in tourism revenue, and it is not yet clear how that economy will be affected by the reef’s deterioration. Even in hard-hit areas, large patches of the Great Barrier Reef survived, and guides will most likely take tourists there, avoiding the dead zones.
The global reef crisis does not necessarily mean extinction for coral species. The corals may save themselves, as many other creatures are attempting to do, by moving toward the poles as the Earth warms, establishing new reefs in cooler water.
But the changes humans are causing are so rapid, by geological standards, that it is not entirely clear that coral species will be able to keep up. And even if the corals do survive, that does not mean individual reefs will continue to thrive where they do now.
Coral reefs are sensitive systems, built by unusual animals. The corals themselves are tiny polyps that act like farmers, capturing colorful single-celled plants called algae that convert sunlight into food. The coral polyps form colonies and build a limestone scaffolding on which to live — a reef.

But when the water near a reef gets too hot, the algae begin producing toxins, and the corals expel them in self-defense, turning ghostly white. If water temperatures drop soon enough, the corals can grow new algae and survive, but if not, they may succumb to starvation or disease.
Even when the corals die, some reefs eventually recover. If water temperatures stay moderate, the damaged sections of the Great Barrier Reef may be covered with corals again in as few as 10 or 15 years.
But the temperature of the ocean is now high enough that global mass bleaching events seem to be growing more frequent. If they become routine, many of the world’s hard-hit coral reefs may never be able to re-establish themselves.
Within a decade, certain kinds of branching and plate coral could be extinct, reef scientists say, along with a variety of small fish that rely on them for protection from predators.
“I don’t think the Great Barrier Reef will ever again be as great as it used to be — at least not in our lifetimes,” said C. Mark Eakin, a reef expert with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, in Silver Spring, Md.
Dr. Eakin was an author of the new paper and heads a program called Coral Reef Watch, producing predictive maps to warn when coral bleaching is imminent. Even though last year’s El Niño has ended, water temperatures are high enough that his maps are showing continued hot water across millions of square miles of the ocean.
Kim M. Cobb, a reef scientist at the Georgia Institute of Technology who was not involved in the writing of the new paper, described it and the more recent findings as accurate, and depressing. She said she saw extensive coral devastation last year off Christmas Island, an Australian territory nearly a thousand miles from the mainland and a place she visits regularly in her research.
With the international effort to fight climate change at risk of losing momentum, “ocean temperatures continue to march upward,” Dr. Cobb said. “The idea that we’re going to have 20 or 30 years before we reach the next bleaching and mortality event for the corals is basically a fantasy.”
Damien Cave reported from Sydney, and Justin Gillis reported from New York.

A photograph taken March 6 just off Cairns on the Great Barrier Reef shows a coral reef suffering from bleaching. The Great Barrier Reef is experiencing a second straight year of mass coral bleaching, scientists said. Credit Biopixel Pty Ltd., via Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 9:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I have a huge advantage over you. - G

Apparently NOT! Because ....

Quote:
Remember who most people - very smart people - said would win the election?- G

Well, there must be something wrong with their data collection or their projection BECAUSE I don't believe I was ever convinced that Hillary would win the election. In fact, I believe I pointed out - more than once- the problem with Democratically "oversampled" polls. The first thing to do before putting faith in data is to make sure that it's good data.

Quote:
Trump is right in front of us, whereas all those bonus ideas you'll profess to *know* are just guesses.-G

I have no idea what this means. Which "bonus ideas" are you taking about?

Quote:
In this world I'll take observable data over projected data every time.

I have no idea what this means either. Everything I posted has already been observed (except the projection that there will be life after Trump).

So, let me know which parts you think are projections/ bonus ideas and I'll find the actual events which illustrate them.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Friday, March 24, 2017 8:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
"Golly, < subtext > what you're saying is so poorly worded and therefore stupid < / subtext > that I don't have any idea what you are on about!

You mean you can't answer reasonable questions about your own posts? Figures. You ARE that stupid.

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 8:07 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You mean you can't answer reasonable questions about your own posts? Figures. You ARE that stupid.

Hey 1kiki, the republican party are deniers of global warming. How can your beloved party be so full of fuck ups and morons?

---------------------

SIG says I'm a deep state troll.oh me, oh my.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 8:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by THUGGER:
Hey 1kiki, the republican party are deniers of global warming. How can your beloved party be so full of fuck ups and morons?

I'm a registered democrat.

How can you be such an idiot?

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 8:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 9:39 PM

6STRINGJOKER

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Hey 1kiki, the republican party are deniers of global warming.

That's just not true.

If you were to say "any given Republican is more likely to deny global warming than any given Democrat", that would be a fair statement.

I would have done a "Fixed it for ya", but we wouldn't want to get your panties in a bunch.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 11:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I have a huge advantage over you. - G

Apparently NOT! Because ....
Quote:
Remember who most people - very smart people - said would win the election?- G
Well, there must be something wrong with their data collection or their projection BECAUSE I don't believe I was ever convinced that Hillary would win the election. In fact, I believe I pointed out - more than once- the problem with Democratically "oversampled" polls. The first thing to do before putting faith in data is to make sure that it's good data.

Trump is right in front of us, whereas all those bonus ideas you'll profess to *know* are just guesses.-G

I have no idea what this means. Which "bonus ideas" are you taking about?"

In this world I'll take observable data over projected data every time.- G

I have no idea what this means either. Everything I posted has already been observed (except the projection that there will be life after Trump). So, let me know which parts you think are projections/ bonus ideas and I'll find the actual events which illustrate - SIGNY

Pass! You'll just act the bumpkin troll as you did above. "Golly, < subtext > what you're saying is so poorly worded and therefore stupid < / subtext > that I don't have any idea what you are on about! And / or you'll just try and refute with more guesses and Trump-like promises of future corrections that you have no idea about. Your spin is flat and stale and obvious - needs a major upgrade.

Well, I DON'T know what you're "on about" so you'll have to explain your post.

I have said, and I'm sure you'll remember, that there is much that I DON'T agree with Trump on. I voted for Trump for THREE REASONS, and my view is that the President - whoever it is - has the MOST power over foreign relations, so all of my reasons were wrapped around foreign relations. The rest I'm ready to fight over.

So, what WERE you "on about"?

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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