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Originally posted by Brenda:
Thank you for the article, which I will read in more detail tomorrow. I think I knew there were cities in the mid-west but didn't know who built them. And I would have read that a long time ago hence the haze of my memory.

There weren't just peoples in the what you call the "Mid-West" now but coastal peoples in the Pacific NorthWest. Haida, Tlingit. Dene in Alaska, Mandan, Crow, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee, Iroquois. To name but a few and mine own of course, Shoshoni.

We were here long before.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
White guilt much, snowflake?

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white.

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Nobody believes that the first Americans were white. Not one single person.

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Originally posted by Riverlove:

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
White guilt much, snowflake?

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white.

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Nobody believes that the first Americans were white. Not one single person.

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People who never saw Little Big Man or Dances With Wolves might. Whole lotta dummies out there.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM: Monday, April 24, 2017 6:27 AM
Hmmmm.... actually, the first inhabitants of the Americas may not have originated in Asia, but elsewhere.

http://www.history.com/news/new-study-refutes-theory-of-how-humans-pop
ulated-north-america

But it's an area of active study. The timeline of human habitation was proposed to go back even further .... 10,000 years earlier .... to 24,000 years ago, not the accepted 14,000 years ago. The genetics of modern native Americans can be traced back to various 8,000 - 14,000 year-old fossils, but since there are no human fossils from 24,000 years ago, simply indications of human activity, the question is unresolved who the "earliest" people were.

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Originally posted by G: Monday, April 24, 2017 12:31 PM
Well... hmmmm.... actually, the first inhabitants of the Americas may not have originated in Asia, but elsewhere.

The genetics of modern native Americans can be traced back to various 8,000 - 14,000 year-old fossils, but since there are no human fossils from 24,000 years ago, simply indications of human activity, the question is unresolved who the "earliest" people were.

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Thanks for selectively quoting Signy without attribution and without the link. - KIKI
Thanks for being a lying sack of go se without the guts to defend yourself. GSTRING

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Well... hmmmm.... actually, the first inhabitants of the Americas may not have originated in Asia, but elsewhere.

The genetics of modern native Americans can be traced back to various 8,000 - 14,000 year-old fossils, but since there are no human fossils from 24,000 years ago, simply indications of human activity, the question is unresolved who the "earliest" people were.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Just saving this for posterity to demonstrate that YOU'RE a lying sack of shit, GSTRING.

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G: Looks can be deceiving.

SIG: Not as deceiving as a low down, dirty... deceiver.

G: Well said. Wasn't that well said, everyone?

T: It had a kinda poetry to it, G.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
White guilt much, snowflake?

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white.

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Nobody believes that the first Americans were white. Not one single person.

Only SJW college professors and those they brainwash believe that anybody else actually believes that.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Attached find a story about the Native Americans who once numbered more than 20,000 in a village known as Etzanoa...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-location-a-mystery-for-centuries-
huge-indian-city-is-found-in-kansas/ar-BBAdr7v?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Makes you think about who the real immigrants are in this country. There were tribes known as Kanza, Wichita, Pawnee, Kiowa, Cheyenne and Apache. They roamed the middle of the country and developed cities in the tens of thousands.

Anyway, I think it's something that everyone is aware of, but may refuse to accept reality. Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white. They were natives of color and they were here long before the Vikings and Columbus ever set foot on this land. The discovery of this town of natives in Kansas (Kansa people or people of the south wind) is considered a major discovery and part of the rich history of the native people who thrived here long ago.


SGG

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Took time to really read the article and it is very good and interesting. Many tribes were ravished by disease. The biggest killer being small pox.

The tribes that bordered Mexico were the first to get horses. They stole them from the Spaniards. Apache were well known for raiding into Mexico.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Brenda,
I am a little fuzzy on your geography, and how it relates to your references to Native Americans, or First nation peoples.

I would assume that most of the archeological record shows human inhabitants from about 14,000 years ago to now, as well as more than 30,000 years ago and prior. But showing humans very near the Great Lakes (or Hudson Bay) from about 15,000 to 30,000 yeas ago would surprise me.

How far are the human remains you mention, distance from the Great Lakes?

I also assume the same for the rest of North America - proximity to the Great Lakes would surprise me with much population before 14,000 years ago.

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JSF,

I am in British Columbia. My interest n archaeology and study of the subject began BEFORE I found out my family was part American Indian. Then I switched my interest to this continent. So, I have a fair bit of knowledge at my disposal on the subject. When you study archaeology in Canada you learn about First Nations as the Native Canadians refer to themselves now. But I learned about American Indians first because that is where my family's blood comes from.

The oldest site that I know of comes in with Radio Carbon dating at 30,000years and that is in South America. It is known now that there was no ice free corridor and so the peoples who came to North America walked over the land bridge then walked down the coast line of what is now British Columbia. The northern half of this continent was covered in ice. Because of the ice there was no ocean. The seabed and the coast line were on the same level. The land was depressed because of the ice. People were inhabiting the interior of the continent at around 20,000 yrs.

This part of the world was peopled from South America up. Various groups came in at various times and moved across the land as the ice retreated. The last group to come into North America were the Inuit.

People would have moved into the area of the Great Lakes as the ice retreated.

Historical records and archaeological finds show us that the people who became known as the Iroquois Confederacy built towns in what is now the Province of Quebec.

And surely you know your history about what small pox did to the tribes that came into contact with the disease? Europeans had bene exposed to that contagion for generations and had some immunity to it. We didn't. It destroyed villages.

And yes horses were taken from more than just the Spaniards as were guns.

The peoples I mentioned are now in Alaska, Washington State, BC. Mine are split onto reservations in Wyoming, Nevada and Idaho. The other peoples I mentioned are in the mid-states and into Texas, I think.
These peoples still exist to this day. Like the Cheyenne, and the Dakota.

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I noticed.

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...And I don't have the patience at times for trying to get a point across.

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The US and Canada are widely diverse countries even among the First Nations peoples here. The Iroquois Confederacy in Eastern Canada built towns that were protected by walls.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
True that Brenda, the article was an interesting read. Unfortunately the discussion quickly devolved into a racial issue, which was not the intent of this posting. But there are those that take a moment of fascinating discovery about the history of this country and sling mud to detract and demean.

Popular belief and scholarly facts are generally diametrically opposed. But I guess you understand that more than most, because you smartly steer clear of any of the sophomoric discussions that dominate this site within the RWED. There are those, even so-called college educated people, that do not know everything. I sat in a class where a young woman stood in shock and disbelief when the professor pointed out how multinational corporations (mostly American based companies) would economically "rape" their host nation to the detriment of the people of that country. All in the name of more profits.

But I digress. The article was indeed good and raised an important question for the entire country to consider: How beautifully rich and varied is our nation? And how much more so with the people that contribute to it.

I'm glad you got something from it.


SGG

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Attached find a story about the Native Americans who once numbered more than 20,000 in a village known as Etzanoa...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-location-a-mystery-for-centuries-
huge-indian-city-is-found-in-kansas/ar-BBAdr7v?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Makes you think about who the real immigrants are in this country. There were tribes known as Kanza, Wichita, Pawnee, Kiowa, Cheyenne and Apache. They roamed the middle of the country and developed cities in the tens of thousands.

Anyway, I think it's something that everyone is aware of, but may refuse to accept reality. Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white. They were natives of color and they were here long before the Vikings and Columbus ever set foot on this land. The discovery of this town of natives in Kansas (Kansa people or people of the south wind) is considered a major discovery and part of the rich history of the native people who thrived here long ago.


SGG

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Took time to really read the article and it is very good and interesting. Many tribes were ravished by disease. The biggest killer being small pox.

The tribes that bordered Mexico were the first to get horses. They stole them from the Spaniards. Apache were well known for raiding into Mexico.

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I noticed.

Well, I am also kind of out of the loop news wise as to what is what in the US and the world. And I don't have the patience at times for trying to get a point across.

The US and Canada are widely diverse countries even among the First Nations peoples here. The Iroquois Confederacy in Eastern Canada built towns that were protected by walls.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I'm pretty sure at this point they wouldn't exist if the people who lived in them didn't want to live in them anymore. It's not as if they're concentration camps. They're actually sovereign states of their own that can make laws outside of US law. That's why the casinos were only on reservations for many years, and that's where the UFC got its start and to this day there are quite a few cage fights that don't fall under UFC law.

Brenda can correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has to stay there if they don't want to.

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No, Jack. People don't have to stay on them any more. But sometimes leaving and trying to "assimilate" into the larger society is still hard. And God do I hate that word. So when they have problems they go back to the reservation.

Sometimes I feel that we still aren't wanted in our own land.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
This is what I'm saying. To think that in 2017 we are still talking about "reservations" like we are still living in the past. Horse soldiers and the like. Wow, it blows my mind.


SGG

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I'm pretty sure at this point they wouldn't exist if the people who lived in them didn't want to live in them anymore. It's not as if they're concentration camps. They're actually sovereign states of their own that can make laws outside of US law. That's why the casinos were only on reservations for many years, and that's where the UFC got its start and to this day there are quite a few cage fights that don't fall under UFC law.

Brenda can correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has to stay there if they don't want to.

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No, Jack. People don't have to stay on them any more. But sometimes leaving and trying to "assimilate" into the larger society is still hard. And God do I hate that word. So when they have problems they go back to the reservation.

Sometimes I feel that we still aren't wanted in our own land.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, all nations were driven onto the reservations by horse soldiers at the order of the American government. Late 1800s. Then the horse soldiers made sure that we stayed on them. Then if any group "jumped the reservation", think Geronimo, the "horse soldiers" or by then the US army was sent after them to bring them back.

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Sometimes I do Jack and sometimes I don't. I have pure blood friends and Metis friends and with them, I feel welcomed because we share similar stories. Close white friends from school I'm okay with but other whites, I don't. When I explain to them why they are wrong when they say certain things about the history in Canada...they don't understand.

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The idea that they tend to stay there now I think speaks to our natural tenancy to group ourselves with like-minded people and also things that are familiar to us.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
This is what I'm saying. To think that in 2017 we are still talking about "reservations" like we are still living in the past. Horse soldiers and the like. Wow, it blows my mind.


SGG

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I'm pretty sure at this point they wouldn't exist if the people who lived in them didn't want to live in them anymore. It's not as if they're concentration camps. They're actually sovereign states of their own that can make laws outside of US law. That's why the casinos were only on reservations for many years, and that's where the UFC got its start and to this day there are quite a few cage fights that don't fall under UFC law.

Brenda can correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has to stay there if they don't want to.

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No, Jack. People don't have to stay on them any more. But sometimes leaving and trying to "assimilate" into the larger society is still hard. And God do I hate that word. So when they have problems they go back to the reservation.

Sometimes I feel that we still aren't wanted in our own land.

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I can agree with that SGG. But not being part of the culture it's hard to say why that word would still be a thing.

Brenda says that they don't have to stay on them "anymore", which means that they were indeed forced to stay on them at some point, which is the real shame.

The idea that they tend to stay there now I think speaks to our natural tenancy to group ourselves with like-minded people and also things that are familiar to us. I'm not saying that they have it good, but I am saying that part of me envies what they do have now. I'm a european mutt. I don't have any "roots" or any "reservation" to go back to if I fail to assimilate with the culture, which I struggle with all the time.

I think it's a large reason why buying a home and having no debt was so important to me. I've got my lonely little castle now where I'm not beholden to anybody. What's missing is the sense of community and belonging that Brenda probably feels.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Maybe if the reservations became more like a refuge and less like a prison?

I don't know how well that would work, but even white Xtian culture could use more "retreats" to restore balance. I myself long for a nice couple of weeks in quiet cloister/ hermitage/ monastery where all I need to do is be quiet and think.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
So the question is - how to retain the link of tradition, tribe and family; while preparing the young to be successful in the greater world. It seems like a daunting task - like walking on two roads.

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They can pass on the verbal histories and language along with skills like bead work and religion. Teach the ceremonies of coming of age and introducing a baby to the tribe. And maybe how hides were treated to make clothes.

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When the Spanish settlers first came in 1508, since there is no reliable documentation, anthropologists estimate their numbers to have been between 20,000 and 50,000, but maltreatment, disease, flight, and unsuccessful rebellion had diminished their number to 4,000 by 1515; in 1544 a bishop counted only 60, but these too were soon lost.

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Many Taíno implements and techniques were copied directly by the Europeans, including the bohío (straw hut) and the hamaca (hammock), the musical instrument known as the maracas, and the method of making cassava bread. Many Taino words persist in the Puerto Rican vocabulary of today.

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The Taíno culture impressed both the Spanish (who observed it) and modern sociologists. Myths and traditions were perpetuated through ceremonial dances (areytos), drumbeats, oral traditions, and a ceremonial ball game played between opposing teams (of 10 to 30 players per team) with a rubber ball; winning this game was thought to bring a good harvest and strong, healthy children. The Taíno Indians lived in theocratic kingdoms and had a hierarchically arranged chiefs or caciques. The Taínos were divided in three social classes: the naborias (work class), the nitaínos or sub-chiefs and noblemen which includes the bohiques or priests and medicine men and the caciques or chiefs, each village or yucayeque had one.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Maybe if the reservations became more like a refuge and less like a prison?

I don't know how well that would work, but even white Xtian culture could use more "retreats" to restore balance. I myself long for a nice couple of weeks in quiet cloister/ hermitage/ monastery where all I need to do is be quiet and think.

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I was thinking about an entire way of life. From what little I know - mostly from the Navajo - (damn! maybe I should have taken the hospital job at Ganado, but they wanted a 5 year commitment, and when you're in your 20's 5 years is forever) - the life is family/ tribal based on herding/ gathering/ simple farming, with crafts for sale. The many physical requirements for that lifestyle, the particular knowledge needed, require a large commitment of time. It's vital to preserve the language. I just don't know how you can preserve the entire culture, from which the cultural ethic springs.

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The Navajo have their own schools where they teach their language as well as English.

I think that is a good start.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I've looked for the thread about Residential Schools several times before.

This time is because news reports that an unmarked mass grave of 216 children's bodies were found in/at Kamloops.


Maybe somebody can post a linky.


If somebody knows another thread where Brenda discussed the Residential School System, that would be great to find. I recall reading her posts, but always thought I'd be able to refer back to it.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
It seems like this might be the thread where Brenda discussed Residential Schools, but seems her posts got deleted.

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