Conservative Firefly Fans Unite! by Sheridanmovieguy

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkArchon:
So is a 'rational liberal' but hey...if you put your kool-aid down, I promise not to drink it.

-Dark/Blue

As mildly offended as I am (as a liberal)

, you've touched on something I've been curious about. In debates with conservatie friends and coworkers I have yet to meet one guided by any form of reason and I've wondered if I sound a silly and non-sensical to them as they do to me. So I'm wondering if you could explain that - how is "rational liberal" an oxymoron?

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 6:06 AM

STILLSHINY

Yep, I voted for George W. I think he's God's man for this country. Do I think he's perfect? No. But I pray for him. I prayed for Clinton too, that's why he got caught.

Yes, I go to one of those Fanatic Faith Speaking churches. Now before you all run to the corner, or pick up your weapons I'll also say.

I have never believed in a direct link from the throat to the heart. I'll let you think on that.

So then, if I'm one of those "Christians"

why do I like Firefly? Because, it's all about Faith, Family & Never giving up.

Remember Mal is mad at God, because he felt betrayed. But he went into the War as a man of faith believing he was doing the right thing. "May have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one."

It's not about the moral standards of the show ie: (what gives it a TV-14 rating), but the morality of it, never giving up, forgiveness, faith, responsibility for actions, justice, love, family, confidence, doing the impossible, overcoming the odds, never leaving a man behind, and the list goes on & on.

Find a Crew, Find a Job, Keep Flying. That's inspiration.

Check out my shop!
http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/products/gallery/browse_results.asp
?cid=238187680745956238

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 11:41 AM

NEUTRINOLAD

Quote:
So is a 'rational liberal'

And with that, I declare the Enlightenment officially dead, buried, and completely forgotten.
Let's all take a moment to say a prayer.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 12:06 PM

Conservative Free Thinker: Libertarian.

I'm a Libertarian when I'm feeling idealistic. In a pragmatic mood -- I'll take what I can get and go Republican.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 6:26 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

No presumptions... just curious why you might want to know who the republicans are.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 4:05 PM

ANARKO

Have you guys seen this yet.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=7885

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 3:51 AM

This is what I'm getting at - I posted the above query a couple days ago, yet no one seems to have an answer... if you can logically support the statement "rational liberal is an oxymoron," please do. Otherwise, I'm writing you off as another "irrational and unreasonable conservative."

And while I'm at it, shouldn't "conservative Firefly Fan" be an oxymoron?

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:59 AM

SHERIDANMOVIEGUY

That's not the reason I wanted to start this thread. Itwasn't supposed to be dissing people, I was curious who had the same beliefs as I did. Liberals are not idots, or irrational, they have an idea, and want to help the country. So do we, we just disagree on how to do it.

Every episode of firefly is better than most of the movies I see for my profession, and that makes it special.

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 7:31 AM

"Conservative Firefly Fan" an oxymoron?

Lets see:

Our Big Damn Heroes wear guns and don't pay income tax, race is a non-issue, and religion is present but not divisive. Conservative heaven. (And you can even have a cigar now and then.)

I'll stop being a fan when Serenity lands on Ariel, the crew takes advantage of a gun by-back program, file their tax returns, and, having no (legal) income, apply for food-stamps, unemployment, etc. At this point, of course, Mal would have too turn himself in for having hired a crew (Zoe, Jayne, Wash, Simon) which was just a little too white and a little too male. Book would then be in court for "creating a hostile work environment" for carrying his Bible out of his room (the entire ship being a "workplace").

Liberals aren't irrational just usually wrong.

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 7:41 AM

Sorry, Kaylee.
Scratch too male - add to too white.

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 2:20 PM

So, as a conservative, what you're saying is that the nice thing about Firefly is that it attacks such evils as social services, taxes, anti-discrimination laws, and gun laws. Yeah, I can see where those liberals are way off base.

But seriously, I think what you have here is an unfair characterization. For starters, the Firefly 'verse is hardly modern America - the problems and their solutions are not the same. Vigilantism works because the central government is not interested in keeping the common man's order. Our current government is a little too interested in that (and, in my opinion, going about it the wrong way). Just one example.
What I'm interested in from you folks is what makes the liberal-minded sound irrational and crazy (or wrong)? If I'm making a liberal argument, I try and point out (using sources) why and how it's bad for the country at large. All I ever seem to get in response from the conservative right relates to morals or religion. Which doesn't seem resonable to me. Maybe I'm just not a follower of universalist ethics... in any event, where do the two roads diverge? Where, to put it another way, do I step onto the road apparently less traveled?

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:34 PM

Your right, the Firefly 'verse isn't modern America and any direct comparison isn't possible. People living on a frontier do what they have to do without any political consideration.

The point of view from which we begin our politics is what makes us so very different. Conservatives (rightly so) view the world as individuals, liberals view the world collectively. Most conservatives make some concessions to the larger society and most liberals do opposite-wise (moderates on both sides, I guess), but as our world-views are different we're just not speaking the same language. This is where all the fun yelling and turning blue begins and nobody changes their mind.

When push comes to shove - the individual trumps society. This makes me a conservative.

The common man needs to keep his own order and the government needs to either help or get out of the way. If you think oppositely: you're a liberal. Oh, and wrong.

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Friday, November 12, 2004 3:56 AM

I have a rebuttal quasi-prepared, WildBill, but this doesn't feel like the forum for it. I read above where you take the position of being a liberitarian - I've got some leanings that way myself, so I don't think we're really all that different... well, maybe.

Thanks for responding - it's nice to get some kind of grasp on the other man's perspective. If you're interested in hearing what I have to say, I'll post it, but otherwise, simply thanks.

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Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:58 PM

Sure, I'm interested.

Be forewarned - I may disagree.

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Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:08 PM

SKYWALKEN

I'm a Conservative, a "Hard-Core" one according to the political quiz I took. And I'm definately a Firefly fan. Registered independent, but certainly Republican when it comes to voting (maybe Libertarian or Constitution Party someday).

April 22, 2005...

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 3:00 AM

AERONSTORM

I figured I ought to post here, since I posted on that thread that said I voted for lies death and war, or something like that!

I am a conservative Republican and have identified myself as such since about the 6th grade. I usually split my ticket, based on the candidates, but I voted stright Republican this year for the first time. How about that.

I guess some might call me right-wing, since I listen to Rush Limbaugh, watch Fox News and was rather involved in this year's Indiana Governor's race.

I enjoy politics, (except in my workplace..long story) but I think this year was really ugly, at least on the left side of the aisle. I was really disappointed that the Democratic party acted like that (and still is to some degree) and it went all the way from the presidential race down to the county and city levels.

I hope the Dems head back towards the middle. I think we all remember when when Ted Kennedey wasn't the "conservative" senator from Massachusatts...

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 6:35 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think you're applying a double standard. The left has been castigated for years by the likes of Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, the Federalist etc. We have been called traitors, Pinko commie fags, flip-floppers, Hollywood liberaloids, sinners, the damned... I'm sure you've heard even more than I have since you actually listen to these folks. So, what is your definition of "ugly"?

Edited to add: And this is why I wonder how rational some conservatives are! (Rational= to ratio, to think in relative proportions; in this case, to measure the amount of ugliness on one side versus another and come up with a realistic estimate)

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 7:54 AM

SHERIDANMOVIEGUY

Now you're generalizing. You're taking the opinions of a few men and taking it as the opinion of the whole. Are you saying that there are no out spoken liberals? Just who the hell is Michael Moor then? Or Al Frankin, or Tim Robins, Meryil Streep, or Shaun Penn? Every side has out spoken people.

They are painting just as bad a picture of us as Hannity does of you, if not worse. I have been kicked in the shins for saying I support Bush. One of my fellow classmates told me if I was Republican I was either an inbred moron or a religious zealot, I am nether. Don't run away with the idea that you are the only ones suffering from generalities. We do too, and it isn't fair.

I understand that you have a different opinion, that's fine, but you guys aren't the only one's being picked on, you have lots of proponents, and a lot of them have big voices in the media, like the aforementioned actors, who use their Oscar acceptance speeches for political talk. That's not the point though, there are generalities, but liberals aren't the only ones who suffer from them.

Every episode of firefly is better than most of the movies I see for my profession, and that makes it special.

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 8:22 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Until recently, NONE of the people that you mentioned had regular network outlets where they could opine morning, noon and night. Al Franken is now the exception (on radio) and a very recent one at that. That throws off the ratio.

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 12:11 PM

The ratio looks balanced to me - equal numbers to MY left and MY right on the radio dial.

Anyone that can attract and hold an audience (and therefore get sponsors) is free to do so and opine to their hearts content. Market forces can be cruel, but not to worry, welfare is available - its called N.P.R..

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Monday, November 15, 2004 5:14 AM

Essentially, it seems to boil down to this: the current conservative regime is all about an individual (or group thereof) trumping society - W and Co. Which, I guess, is all well and good if you agree with their politics. But I don't.
The things I've hated about W since the beginning relate to his infringement of freedoms - the Patriot Act, his deletion of information from the .gov websites that didn't suit his politics, his stance on women's rights and birth control, his firing of any who question his faith-based presidency. That only feels like the individual is trumping society of you're an individual with a penis who doesn't care about... well, freedom of information and privacy. I've got articles on this stuff, but again, the forum feels wrong.
I fear all we will see with Bush is a descent into facist theocracy. I hated Kerry - I would've voted Green if I could have risked it. But I hated W that much more. Kerry's presidency would have been bland, effectless... there would have been blank pages in the history books between 2004 and 2008. With Bush, plenty's going to get done. I just fear it's the wrong things.
That's my two bits. I can justify my fears if necessary, but I'm not looking for a fight. I am just trying to understand 59,000,000 of my fellow human beings. And disagree at your leisure, WildBill.

All I ask is that you do it where I can see it.

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Monday, November 15, 2004 6:16 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh my WildBill. Do you really think that consumers drive the market anymore? PPl learn to accept whatever is offered them, especially if it's the only choice they have. Once you're dealing with monopolies and cartels, your individual choice means... well, I can't think of any analogy small enough. I hope you trust the multinationals, because they're closer to forming one-world-government than the UN.

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Monday, November 15, 2004 7:30 AM

Too true, too true. I point to the shining example of the so called "pop-music" radio scene. The radio plays the singles of the bands the record company owners decide are going to do well. This is why everything on the radio sounds like everything else - you've got the pop-punk BS, the softcore rap/r&b, the ballad-y Nickleback-esque "rock" and the poppy country crap. And that's about it. Everything falls nicely into one of those categories because 3 or 4 corporations own both the record labels and the radio. We don't control the market - it controls us.

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Monday, November 15, 2004 10:13 AM

I'm not the guy to defend the adminisrtation's policies - I was one of the small government Republicans who got more than a little frustrated about nine years ago and started hanging out with Libertarians. Once the Republican party controlled Congress the small goverment concept disappeared pretty quickly.

Radio shows are one of the few places where market forces really work as well. For example: Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern both started in smaller markets, pulled in a good audience, got sponsers, and syndication followed where they were able to appeal to a national audience and keep it. The liberals are now trying to get their own radio thing going in more of a top-down fashion - going directly to a national audience. Same way they want government.

I both rue and lament the state of music, television, and movies in general. Investors just plug into a formula that's worked in the past, pump some money into marketing, and collect their profits. I think that my head may explode the next time I hear a teenager singing and relating to some awful 'song' that slick marketing told him told represents his inner teenaged angst. Market forces are cruel indeed.

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Monday, November 15, 2004 10:20 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

But WildBill, there is one more factor at work in the media that you haven't considered. The media is not just a market-driven business, it's also mixed with politics. The Bush administration promised the large media conglomerates that FCC rules would be relaxed to allow greater consolidation. The largest media owners who are of course very big businesses see this as a terrific oppty to gain market share. No matter how good the programming or the reponse to a particular show (like Firefly) it just can't compare to the bottom line impact of getting an additional 10% share, so the media owners keep Bush&Co happy.

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Monday, November 15, 2004 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wildbill:
I both rue and lament the state of music, television, and movies in general. Investors just plug into a formula that's worked in the past, pump some money into marketing, and collect their profits. I think that my head may explode the next time I hear a teenager singing and relating to some awful 'song' that slick marketing told him told represents his inner teenaged angst. Market forces are cruel indeed.

My sentiments exactly. See? Not so different...

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Tuesday, November 16, 2004 2:29 PM

The only way to keep politics out of the media is to relax regulations even more. If, the media is free from regulation they won't have to get in bed with any administration in the future.
So, if media conglomerates are getting chummy with the administration today (I really don't think so, but I'll frame things in these terms) for less regulation, the'll be freed from having to do politics in the future. They could even turn right around and be critical of the administration that turned them loose.

The alternative is to keep the FCC strong enough to be used by this or future administrations as a club to keep the media in line.

Kill your television - 10% of nothing is ...let's see... carry the zero...

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Tuesday, November 16, 2004 4:16 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

On a completely superfluous note, the title of this thread inevitably makes me think of "Dyslexics untie!"

Sorry, but I see that every time I read the header and I just wanted to pass that chuckle along!

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Tuesday, November 16, 2004 5:48 PM